NASCAR Racing 4

Papyrus · released 2001 · discussed in 10,411 posts, 1997-2008 · overall tone mixed

Posts per month

Timeline

• 2000-04-21 Papyrus posted a screenshot of Dover captioned 'We've been busy', widely taken as the first look at NASCAR Racing 4. thread post
• 2000-05-03 Sierra officially announced NASCAR Racing 4 with an entirely new physics engine and a 3D cockpit for a late-2000 release. Papyrus said it would support Direct3D and OpenGL only, with no Glide. thread post post
• 2000-05-13 At E3, Papyrus showed NASCAR Racing 4 in-car footage, and Hasbro had NASCAR Heat and Grand Prix 3 playable on its booth. thread post post
• 2000-08-11 Hasbro released the NASCAR Heat demo, and at the same time NASCAR Racing 4 was reported to have slipped into 2001. post thread post
• 2000-11-27 The NASCAR Racing 4 demo, featuring Dover and Michigan, appeared on Computer Gaming World's subscriber CD and was available for public download from 29 November. thread thread post
• 2001-01-31 NASCAR Racing 4 went gold. post
• 2001-02-07 NASCAR Racing 4 went on sale in North America; its SecuROM copy protection caused launch failures on some CD and DVD drives, and the online ranking servers went down days later. post post thread
• 2001-02-13 Papyrus released an unsupported 1.0.0.1 beta patch for NASCAR Racing 4, followed in March by a fix for multiplayer hosting with multiple network devices. post post
• 2001-04-18 WON, host of NASCAR Racing 4 online racing, was merged into the subscription-based Flipside.com under Vivendi. post post
• 2001-04-25 Papyrus released NASCAR Racing 4 patch 1.1.0.0 with many AI fixes; it was not multiplayer compatible with earlier versions and online rankings were reset. post post thread
• 2001-06-03 The Pits posted preview videos of a NASCAR Racing 4 car driving a converted GPL Monaco, starting a long wait for a GPL-to-N4 track converter. thread post
• 2001-06-29 N4Rank, a NASCAR Racing 4 ranking site modelled on GPLRank, went online. post thread
• 2001-07-11 Sierra UK stopped distributing NASCAR Racing 4 in the UK. post post
• 2001-08-11 Papyrus began policing intentional wreckers on its NASCAR Racing 4 servers and later banned offenders' CD keys, provoking a huge debate. post thread thread
• 2001-09-01 Sierra Germany mistakenly posted a beta NASCAR Racing 4 patch, 1.3.1.4, which was multiplayer incompatible with the official version. post post
• 2001-10-17 Papyrus released the NASCAR Racing 4 1.3 patch, with reported frame-rate gains, and said there would be no N4 expansion pack. post post thread
• 2007-07-17 Sierra announced that multiplayer for NASCAR Racing 2003 Season, NASCAR Racing 2002 Season, NASCAR Racing 4 and other Papyrus titles would end on 16 August 2007. post post

Key threads

• Sierra officially announces NASCAR Racing 4 2000-05-03 · 30 posts
  Ian Bell posted Sierra's press release announcing NASCAR Racing 4 with an 'entirely new, ground breaking physics engine' and a late-year release. Posters debated whether it was based on the GPL engine, which Dave Henrie insisted it was, and worried about the system requirements and which graphics APIs it would support. Radical Entertainment's Joe McGinn said he trusted Papyrus and Dave Kaemmer on the physics claim.
• NASCAR Racing 4 player banned from Papyrus online servers 2001-08-25 · 291 posts
  B. Hilton complained that Papyrus had permanently banned his NASCAR Racing 4 CD key from Sierra/WON online racing after a report that he intentionally wrecked others, which he said was an honest lapped-car mistake. The huge thread debated whether the ban was fair after one race, whether lapped cars should hold their line, whether Papyrus had any legal right to block a paid-for feature, and how to appeal. Many supported Papyrus's crackdown on wreckers while others called for warnings or temporary suspensions, and Hilton said complaints had been made to the Better Business Bureau.
• Proposed fixes for wreckers in NASCAR 4 online racing 2001-06-05 · 64 posts
  After wreckers spoiled a 40-car Talladega pickup race, posters proposed realistic damage, vote-kicking, yellow flags and incident-rating arenas to deal with them. Francois Menard insisted pickup racing had been dead since TEN's NROS closed and leagues were the answer, which annoyed Dave Casey, Scott Husted and others who lacked time for leagues. John Simmons described DeMONS/2 and RaceServer.net, an N4 server manager requiring registration with real email addresses, and others criticised N4's arcade-like online damage.
• Preview video of GPL Monaco converted to NASCAR 4 2001-06-03 · 49 posts
  Jan Kohl of The Pits posted preview videos showing a NASCAR Racing 4 car driving Grand Prix Legends' Monaco, made with an unofficial track conversion. Simracing.dk mirrored the files after many users struggled with binary newsgroup downloads and the DivX codec. Readers were excited about GPL tracks in N4, and Kohl said a public converter depended on getting fully to grips with the N4 file format.
• NASCAR 4 demo appears on CGW cover CD 2000-11-27 · 44 posts
  Users learned that the NASCAR Racing 4 demo was on Computer Gaming World's subscriber CD and clamoured for someone to upload it. Black Hole Motorsports explained it would only post the demo when legally allowed, given CGW's apparent exclusive, which led to accusations that sites cared about hits. The 80MB size and CGW's decline were also discussed.
• Steering into a slide to save spins in N4 and GPL 2000-12-24 · 41 posts
  A player asked why steering harder into the turn could save a spin in NASCAR 4 rather than countersteering. Posters debated the tyre physics, with J. Todd Wasson working through slip-angle explanations, Alan Orton remaining sceptical and others citing real drivers' saves. Papyrus's Grant Reeve explained how N4's steering lock works.
• Is NASCAR Heat going to be an arcade game? 2000-05-06 · 33 posts
  An interview with producer Ed Martin led some to call NASCAR Heat an arcade game. Others pointed out that it offered both arcade and sim modes and was built by Monster Games on Viper Racing's well-regarded physics. Toni Lassila argued that Hasbro had abandoned simulations, and Ed Martin joined to invite people to try NASCAR Heat and GP3 at Hasbro's E3 booth.
• Are real race cars hard to drive? NASCAR 4 and GPL 2000-12-05 · 32 posts
  Speculation about how hard the NASCAR 4 physics would be turned into a debate about whether real race cars, including 1967 F1 cars, are inherently difficult to drive. Bruce Kennewell argued that GPL's cars are too twitchy and that period drivers moved easily between categories, while others cited examples of top drivers struggling in unfamiliar cars. Later posts covered the N4 demo's steering pull on straights and requests for a trim tab.
• Papa Doc's Voodoo5 vs GeForce3 benchmarks spark long argument 2002-01-14 · 311 posts
  Pierre "Papa Doc" Legrand published benchmarks comparing a Voodoo5 and a GeForce3 in Ghost Recon, NASCAR 4, Quake 3 and flight sims, finding the Voodoo5 competitive with 4x FSAA. Many disputed his methodology, including running 3DMark without hardware T&L, and argued the GeForce3 was better in every way. The thread ran to over 300 posts and degenerated into insults, ending up on multi-monitor and LCD resolution arguments.
• Second NASCAR 4 screenshot hints at new engine 2000-04-29 · 177 posts
  Papyrus posted a second NASCAR Racing 4 screenshot showing Richmond at night. Dave Henrie and others argued that the straight pit lanes proved the old NASCAR 2/3 code had been retired in favour of a GPL-derived engine, while sceptics said only physics mattered. A poster who called GPL junk provoked a long side argument, with Jim Erb claiming most sim racers disliked GPL.
• Sim quality praise spirals into US foreign-policy flame war 2001-12-02 · 166 posts
  Simon Brown argued that sim racers had never had it so good, crediting GPL with raising physics standards across other sims such as NASCAR 4. Others disputed NASCAR 4's physics, track accuracy and damage model. A jibe about Deer Hunter sales and Americans then turned the thread into a long, heated argument about American culture, foreign policy and the war in Afghanistan, which had nothing to do with sims.
• Reaction to NASCAR 4 dropping specific 3dfx Glide support 2000-05-09 · 94 posts
  News that NASCAR Racing 4 would use only Direct3D and OpenGL upset owners of Voodoo cards bought for GPL and NASCAR 3. Some criticised Papyrus for repeatedly switching graphics APIs, from Rendition to Glide and A3D, while others said Glide was dying and D3D was the sensible choice. Side debates covered whether 32-bit color mattered and why GPL's OpenGL rasteriser was so slow.
• Plea to Papyrus to curb wreckers on N4's online service 2001-07-23 · 85 posts
  Ed Solheim asked Papyrus to tackle wreckers and abusive behaviour in N4 races on Sierra's WON service, proposing a minimum LPI (incident index) filter for joining races. Posters debated ranking resets, group eject functions and the merits of leagues and passworded races. David G Fisher argued that full-field online racing is unworkable for modern F1 sims, which drew opposition.
• NASCAR 4 limited to North America and Germany 2001-01-10 · 82 posts
  Olav Malmin reported that NASCAR Racing 4 would only be released in North America and Germany, angering European and Australian fans. ymenard said they could simply order online, while others objected to import costs, taxes and needing credit cards. Dave Henrie attributed the decision to Sierra and support costs, and the thread drifted into a long argument over credit card surcharges and banking.
• Waiting for a fix for NASCAR 4 copy protection failures 2001-02-14 · 75 posts
  Alastair Ingram and others who could not run NASCAR 4 because of SecuROM copy protection asked how long they would have to wait for a fix. Defenders such as Mike Grandy said only a small percentage were affected and suggested a refund or a cheap new CD drive, while Alan Bernardo, Uncle Fester and Joe McGinn argued that copy protection only punishes legitimate buyers. Some admitted resorting to no-CD cracks.
• Which is the most realistic racing sim? 2001-09-27 · 69 posts
  A former GPL player asked what sims besides NASCAR Racing 4 offered realism and good gameplay. Answers ranged across GPL with add-ons, GP3 2000, NR4 (which Ed Solheim argued had better physics than GPL) and NASCAR Heat with its CART mod and converted road courses. The thread drifted into CART versus IRL arguments and jokes about road-car drive belts, with talk of an NR4-based TPTCC road-racing mod in development.
• NASCAR 4 won't start due to copy protection 2001-02-08 · 64 posts
  David Hearn and several others could not get NASCAR Racing 4 to launch, apparently because its SecuROM copy protection was incompatible with their CD or DVD drives. A long argument followed, with Jagg and others saying copy protection only hurts paying customers while Cliff Roman defended publishers' right to deter casual copying. Posters noted that no-CD cracks appear within hours and that Sierra offered a money-back guarantee.
• NASCAR 5 feature wish list 2001-11-09 · 64 posts
  Following rumours of a March 2002 release, Gerald Moore asked what people wanted in the next Papyrus NASCAR sim. Suggestions included better damage with debris and oil, dynamic weather, adjustable seating position, a smarter spotter, realistic qualifying, a track editor, better frame rates and current schedules. Alan Bernardo's demand that GPL and CART fans get their own newsgroup drew a rebuke from ymenard and others citing the group's charter.
• Is NASCAR Racing 4 fun? Ovals versus F1 debate 2002-03-08 · 61 posts
  Robert Upward said he was giving up on NASCAR Racing 4 because it was not fun, and others suggested trying the NR2002 demo or preferring certain tracks. The thread turned into a long argument over NASCAR versus F1 as spectacles, with David G Fisher citing F1's claimed 350 million viewers per race and others challenging those figures as inflated. Some exchanges became personal, notably from Gerry Aitken.
• Dealing with wreckers in NASCAR 4 online pickup races 2001-05-28 · 61 posts
  Drivers complained about wreckers ruining NASCAR Racing 4 pickup races and discussed fixes such as kick/ban tools, password-protected servers, small private racing groups and leagues. Some argued serious pickup racing had died when TEN's NROS service closed, while others said they lacked time for leagues. A long side discussion covered whether cable ISPs such as @Home forbade users from hosting race servers, and whether MAC addresses could identify offenders (they cannot across the internet).
• NR4 1.3 patch breaks games on HighPoint RAID systems 2001-10-28 · 60 posts
  Users complained that the NASCAR Racing 4 1.3 patch stopped the game starting. Papyrus's Eric Busch explained that the patch's updated SecuROM protection conflicted with HighPoint HPT370 RAID controllers, that Sony and HighPoint were working on a fix, and that older 1.0.3 drivers or moving drives to standard IDE ports helped. Thom j. vented frustration and got step-by-step help, and a brief insult exchange with Biz followed.
• Alleged victim confronts banned NASCAR Racing 4 driver 2001-08-26 · 55 posts
  A poster named Justin, who said he was the driver hit in the incident, claimed the banned B. Hilton had tried to wreck him several times and deserved the ban. Hilton denied it, questioned whether Justin was real, and claimed Papyrus had been reported to the Better Business Bureau, while regulars mocked him. Side discussions covered whether the NR4 EULA and WON access were part of the purchase, and scheduling of a GPL league race.
• What it means for NASCAR 4 to use the GPL engine 2000-04-17 · 54 posts
  Posters clarified that NASCAR Racing 4 would use Papyrus's new GPL-derived game engine adapted for stock cars, rather than GPL's car physics. Pete claimed to have seen leaked builds with a toned-down GPL physics model, and Mark Gums recalled the GPL-engined N3 shown in 1998. The thread also discussed why Papyrus had no plans for a new CART sim and how much aerodynamics a sim needs to model.
• Outrage over Game-Guru review mocking NASCAR and Earnhardt 2001-03-14 · 52 posts
  Posters condemned a Game-Guru.net review of NASCAR Racing 4 that attacked NASCAR and made derogatory remarks about Dale Earnhardt rather than reviewing the game. Many emailed complaints, the review was pulled and the author issued an apology, and some argued the flood of angry emails was itself excessive. A side discussion explained why HTML posts are poor netiquette on Usenet.
• Is NASCAR 4 a big improvement over NASCAR Heat? 2000-11-30 · 52 posts
  A user asked why NASCAR 4 was a big deal when NASCAR Heat had similar physics and better graphics. Others cited Heat's caution and multiplayer flaws and argued N4's physics were more realistic, while some preferred Heat's feel and disliked N4's strong left pull. Theories were floated that N4 was delayed to avoid competing with Heat or to launch at Daytona.
• NASCAR 4 versus NASCAR Heat 2001-02-12 · 52 posts
  A prospective buyer asked how NASCAR 4 compared with NASCAR Heat. Most preferred N4 for physics, damage and multiplayer, though several noted that Heat ran much better on slower machines such as a PIII 500 with a Voodoo3. Posters discussed GeForce2 upgrades, and the thread ended with a squabble over the cost of upgrading.
• Is keyboard racing dead in modern sims? 2001-02-23 · 50 posts
  Leo Greco lamented that modern sims like NASCAR Racing 4 are unplayable with a keyboard, making quick casual sessions harder. Respondents mostly said wheels or joysticks are essential, though GP3 and Codemasters' Insane were cited as having good keyboard support. A disabled GPL racer described driving fast laps using only hand controls, and others shared setup tips.
• Operation Sports interview on NASCAR 2000 and NASCAR Legends 1999-05-17 · 49 posts
  Dan Clarke of Operation Sports linked an interview in which Papyrus explained that NASCAR 2000 would use an overhauled N2 engine with better graphics, sound, force feedback and AI, rather than the harder GPL physics. Some were reassured while others felt insulted that realism was sacrificed. The thread then moved to GPL's blind spot, the look-left/right keys, clutch key mapping, and how packet size limits how many cars a client sees behind.
• David G Fisher asks why N4 isn't considered the best sim 2001-06-14 · 48 posts
  David G Fisher asked why GPL fans don't rate NASCAR Racing 4 as the best sim when it shares GPL's physics with better graphics and multiplayer. Replies said they prefer 1967 F1 cars and road courses to ovals, that N4 pickup racing is ruined by wreckers, and Simon Brown noted Dave Kaemmer agreed N4 was the better simulation even if less thrilling; NASCAR fans described intense league racing.
• First impressions of the NR2002 demo and D3D vsync confusion 2001-12-30 · 47 posts
  Don Burnette posted early impressions of the NASCAR Racing 2002 demo, and the thread became a long troubleshooting session about low framerates on GeForce cards. Much of it was about where the Direct3D vsync option lives in Nvidia drivers, which turned out to need CoolBits or a tweak utility. On handling, some felt the car was easier and more stock-car-like than NASCAR 4, while Jason Moyer argued the physics were the same and track grip settings explained the difference.
• NR2002 demo praise, pricing doubts and the wall-riding penalty 2001-12-30 · 46 posts
  Ed Solheim praised the NR2002 demo, especially its new throttle and brake telemetry, while others argued it was little more than a NASCAR 4 patch that did not justify full price. The thread debated whether telemetry belongs in a stock car sim, since NASCAR banned it for real teams. Gerald Moore explained the NASCAR 4 wall-riding exploit and Papyrus's engine-bog fix, which many said made tracks like Darlington dangerous online.
• First impressions of the NASCAR 4 demo 2000-11-30 · 44 posts
  Ed Solheim praised the NASCAR 4 demo's handling and features and urged leagues to force smoke and cockpit view for fairness, which EldredP opposed for lower-end systems. Others discussed graphics scaling, the proximity indicator, and converting GPL tracks and period cars. Papyrus's Randy Cassidy explained that adding $ to chat messages sends them without pressing Enter.
• NASCAR 4 E3 video and whether drivers see the hood 2000-05-13 · 44 posts
  An E3 stream showed a NASCAR Racing 4 lap of Charlotte from the cockpit, with a straight pit lane and improved mirrors. Some objected that the hood was not visible. Papyrus's Eric Busch, and posters who had done driving experiences, said drivers sitting low in a stock car really cannot see it.
• Wish list for Papyrus's NASCAR Racing 4 2000-02-11 · 44 posts
  Neo listed hoped-for features for NASCAR Racing 4 on the GPL engine, including an animated cockpit, 3D pit crews and weather. Others argued physics and AI matter far more than eye candy and asked for meaningful qualifying, provisionals and varied breakdowns. A long side debate covered whether GPL's animated arms and wheel help or distract, with Wolfgang Woeger confirming he drives with a joystick and no pedals.
• What will Papyrus do after N4 and GPL? 2001-05-15 · 43 posts
  A poster asked whether Papyrus was working on anything new. Wish lists included N4 add-ons for trucks, Busch and CASCAR, a track editor, a GPL update with other seasons, and a CART sim; John Bodin claimed Midway held the CART licence, which others disputed. Rumours pointed to an unspecified open-wheel sim, and Cliff Roman hinted he knew Papyrus's next project but could not say.
• Centering spring disabled in N4 with a force-feedback wheel 2001-05-12 · 41 posts
  Jagg complained that his Microsoft force-feedback wheel lost its centering spring in NASCAR Racing 4 and GPL, making it loose on straights. Gregor Veble, Ruud van Gaal and others explained that these sims deliberately turn off the spring and generate centering forces from tyre aligning torque, and suggested a quicker steering ratio, more caster and a fully linear steering setting, which helped.
• Dealing with NASCAR 4's left pull on straights 2000-12-12 · 40 posts
  A poster named bob argued that the NASCAR 4 demo's pull to the left on straights was realistic and could be reduced with linear steering, equal tyre pressures and other setup changes. Others debated whether real drivers keep their wheels turned on straights and how the on-screen wheel should look, and the exchange between ymenard and Bruce Kennewell turned snippy. Later posts suggested linearity settings and noted that force-feedback users notice the pull less.
• Dale Jr. on NASCAR 4's pull, then a sewing pun thread 2000-12-20 · 40 posts
  Cliff Roman pointed to comments from Dale Earnhardt Jr. confirming that NASCAR 4's pull to the left was realistic. Debate continued over the on-screen wheel angle, and bob explained slip angles. The thread then turned into a long run of sewing and fabric puns.
• NASCAR Racing 4 listing and rumours of leaked builds 2000-03-27 · 38 posts
  A retailer listing for NASCAR Racing 4 prompted speculation about whether it would use GPL-style physics. Pete claimed to have seen leaked builds that were a stripped-down GPL engine. Papyrus's Joel Belog questioned the beta-tester claims, saying no builds had gone out to testers. Goy Larsen's April Fool's claim that N4 would drop the AI fooled several readers.
• N4 patch problems and whether games ship unfinished 2001-05-08 · 38 posts
  A player found that after the N4 patch, AI cars at Daytona drove onto the grass at the start. Others confirmed Daytona AI remained broken but said other tracks improved, and a debate followed over whether games should be held back until they work. Some argued patches are inevitable, while Marc Collins said Papyrus's testing had slipped; one user's online connection problems were traced to his own setup.

Busiest threads

• NASCAR Racing 4 player banned from Papyrus online servers (53 posts about it)
• Proposed fixes for wreckers in NASCAR 4 online racing (37 posts about it)
• How many racing sims do you have installed? (33 posts about it)
• Waiting for a fix for NASCAR 4 copy protection failures (29 posts about it)
• Is NASCAR 4 a big improvement over NASCAR Heat? (29 posts about it)
• Reaction to NASCAR 4 dropping specific 3dfx Glide support (27 posts about it)
• N4's cramped cockpit view and steering pull (24 posts about it)
• Plea to Papyrus to curb wreckers on N4's online service (24 posts about it)
• David G Fisher asks why N4 isn't considered the best sim (23 posts about it)
• What it means for NASCAR 4 to use the GPL engine (23 posts about it)
• What is Papyrus working on, and N4 damage complaints (22 posts about it)
• NASCAR 4 versus NASCAR Heat (21 posts about it)
• Ranking favourite racing sims (21 posts about it)
• NASCAR 4 AI problems at Martinsville (21 posts about it)
• Steering into a slide to save spins in N4 and GPL (21 posts about it)

Sentiment by year

Each post that discussed the sim was rated from −2 (very negative) to +2 (very positive).

Who talked about it most

Dave Henrie · 488 ymenard · 284 Larry · 154 Marc Collins · 147 Thom j. · 140 Andre Warringa · 129 Don Burnette · 127 EldredP · 117 Tom Pabst · 114 David L. Cook · 105 MadDAWG · 99 Ed Solheim · 94 Cliff Roman · 94 SimRacer · 90 Olav K. Malmin · 80 John Simmons · 72 Biz · 71 jason moyer · 68 Simon Brown · 68 Vintook · 65

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