Damn! Finally got N4 today and it won't run!

Anyone else having a problem with N4 and getting it to run? I guess it has something to do with this new CD key that they put on it and my DVD-ROM drive although I have tried it with a second CD-ROM drive that I have installed and it still won't run. Double click on the icon and the cursor turns to the busy cursor for a few seconds and then nothing. Open the task manager and it says that it is running in there, but it's not. SHIT! Anyone have any ideas?

Same problem here, also with a DVD, and it's not a Kenwood as the README warns about. This is the only Papyrus product I've ever had problems running/installing, and I've bought every one ever produced, even SODA (yeech). [email hidden] David Hearn wrote in message <95skgv$2eo$[email hidden]>...

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>Anyone else having a problem with N4 and getting it to run? I guess it has >something to do with this new CD key that they put on it and my DVD-ROM >drive although I have tried it with a second CD-ROM drive that I have >installed and it still won't run. Double click on the icon and the cursor >turns to the busy cursor for a few seconds and then nothing. Open the task >manager and it says that it is running in there, but it's not. SHIT! Anyone >have any ideas? > >

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>Same problem here, also with a DVD, and it's not a Kenwood as the README >warns about. This is the only Papyrus product I've ever had problems >running/installing, and I've bought every one ever produced, even SODA >(yeech). > >[email hidden] > >David Hearn wrote in message <95skgv$2eo$[email hidden]>... >>Anyone else having a problem with N4 and getting it to run? I guess it has >>something to do with this new CD key that they put on it and my DVD-ROM >>drive although I have tried it with a second CD-ROM drive that I have >>installed and it still won't run. Double click on the icon and the cursor >>turns to the busy cursor for a few seconds and then nothing. Open the task >>manager and it says that it is running in there, but it's not. SHIT! Anyone >>have any ideas? >>

Same problem here. On a CD ROM! POS GATEWAY! GRR!!! ----------------------------------------- Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited http://simcrash.00game.com

I got the same problem with a yamaha 8424EZ CDRW drive. Ujj "mets41" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3a81e544$[email hidden]...

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> Same problem here, also with a DVD, and it's not a Kenwood as the README > warns about. This is the only Papyrus product I've ever had problems > running/installing, and I've bought every one ever produced, even SODA > (yeech). > > [email hidden] > > David Hearn wrote in message <95skgv$2eo$[email hidden]>... > >Anyone else having a problem with N4 and getting it to run? I guess it

has > >something to do with this new CD key that they put on it and my DVD-ROM > >drive although I have tried it with a second CD-ROM drive that I have > >installed and it still won't run. Double click on the icon and the cursor > >turns to the busy cursor for a few seconds and then nothing. Open thetask > >manager and it says that it is running in there, but it's not. SHIT!Anyone > >have any ideas? > > > > > >

On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:54:02 -0500, "Skull" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > >I got the same problem with a yamaha 8424EZ CDRW drive. > Copy protection has been giving people grief with their cdrom/DVD drives for ages now. When are the publishers going to stop screwing people over on this issue? Your only solution is to get a cdrom drive that reads copy protected cdrom's fine or wait for a nocd crack (www.gamecopyworld.com). I have a Toshiba 32x XM-6302B and it never has a problem with copy protected games. My Creative CDRW drive is another story though. -- Jagg

Jagg, you honestly can not blame the publishers for using Copy Protection Not with as much piracy as there are these days "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:54:02 -0500, "Skull" <[email hidden]> thus > spoke: > > > > >I got the same problem with a yamaha 8424EZ CDRW drive. > > > > Copy protection has been giving people grief with their cdrom/DVD > drives for ages now. When are the publishers going to stop screwing > people over on this issue? Your only solution is to get a cdrom drive > that reads copy protected cdrom's fine or wait for a nocd crack > (www.gamecopyworld.com). I have a Toshiba 32x XM-6302B and it never > has a problem with copy protected games. My Creative CDRW drive is > another story though. > -- > Jagg

Yeah, but it screws the real buyers more than the pirates. I find it funny that to run NHL2001 (a game I bought) I need to run a NOcd crack because my drive doesn't like Safedisc, and I had to grab a DLL file from FIFA2001 to get acceptable performance on my Geforce 2 MX. I "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:95t1v2$1cu2$[email hidden]...

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> Jagg, you honestly can not blame the publishers for using Copy Protection > > Not with as much piracy as there are these days > > > "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:54:02 -0500, "Skull" <[email hidden]> thus > > spoke: > > > > > > > >I got the same problem with a yamaha 8424EZ CDRW drive. > > > > > > > Copy protection has been giving people grief with their cdrom/DVD > > drives for ages now. When are the publishers going to stop screwing > > people over on this issue? Your only solution is to get a cdrom drive > > that reads copy protected cdrom's fine or wait for a nocd crack > > (www.gamecopyworld.com). I have a Toshiba 32x XM-6302B and it never > > has a problem with copy protected games. My Creative CDRW drive is > > another story though. > > -- > > Jagg > >

Copy protection is a moot issue anymore. First off, the no-CD cracks that come out bypass any copy protection (although these cracks are illegal, I believe, though most use them because finding the CD all the time sucks). Second, there's a new program out there called CloneCD that can copy any disk no matter what they've done to it. It won't work on every drive, but you better believe that the people who do this sort of thing regularly have drives that it does support. Now, these copy protection deals are just getting annoying to the rest of us. I have some games that won't work in my DVD and when I try them in my CD burner, they wont work either. I think it has something to do with it being the second CD/DVD drive. -Pav In article <95t1v2$1cu2$[email hidden]>, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Jagg, you honestly can not blame the publishers for using CopyProtection > > Not with as much piracy as there are these days > > "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:54:02 -0500, "Skull" <[email hidden]>thus

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> > spoke: > > > > > > > >I got the same problem with a yamaha 8424EZ CDRW drive. > > > > > > > Copy protection has been giving people grief with their cdrom/DVD > > drives for ages now. When are the publishers going to stop screwing > > people over on this issue? Your only solution is to get a cdrom

drive

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> > that reads copy protected cdrom's fine or wait for a nocd crack > > (www.gamecopyworld.com). I have a Toshiba 32x XM-6302B and it never > > has a problem with copy protected games. My Creative CDRW drive is > > another story though. > > -- > > Jagg > >

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:59:00 -0600, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Jagg, you honestly can not blame the publishers for using Copy Protection > >Not with as much piracy as there are these days I do blame them because they *insist* on using copy protection that only punishes the legitimate consumer. The pirates have gotten around *every* copy protection system so far. They are costing their customers grief, and money out of their pockets to try and find a cdrom drive that doesn't have a problem with copy protcted disks. Besides that, I'm legally allowed to make one backup of any software I buy. I can't because of the copy protection. My rights are being infringed upon. That's my $00.02 on the issue. -- Jagg

What a total load of horseshit.......only fucking thing copy protection does is fuck legitimate buyers. You won't see a single damn hacker bitching about it. It's just another futile challenge to their limitless talents. Cliff Roman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:95t1v2$1cu2$[email hidden]...

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> Jagg, you honestly can not blame the publishers for using Copy Protection > > Not with as much piracy as there are these days > > > "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:54:02 -0500, "Skull" <[email hidden]> thus > > spoke: > > > > > > > >I got the same problem with a yamaha 8424EZ CDRW drive. > > > > > > > Copy protection has been giving people grief with their cdrom/DVD > > drives for ages now. When are the publishers going to stop screwing > > people over on this issue? Your only solution is to get a cdrom drive > > that reads copy protected cdrom's fine or wait for a nocd crack > > (www.gamecopyworld.com). I have a Toshiba 32x XM-6302B and it never > > has a problem with copy protected games. My Creative CDRW drive is > > another story though. > > -- > > Jagg > > >

I was getting more and more excited reading about all the features of N4. I was anxiously awaiting lunchtime so I could race to the store to buy it. Until I saw this thread. I'll be sitting this one out, girls. I quit buying copy-protected software in 1989 (Lotus v2.2), and I'm not about to start again. I'm sure my email to the manufacturer will get me another PR flack's speil about the eeeeevil pirates, but as previously mentioned, the rightful owners are the only ones inconvenienced. The only way to stop this BS is to vote with our (closed) wallets, and I'm casting my vote today. MW "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 20:59:00 -0600, "Cliff Roman" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >Jagg, you honestly can not blame the publishers for using Copy Protection > > > >Not with as much piracy as there are these days > > I do blame them because they *insist* on using copy protection that > only punishes the legitimate consumer. The pirates have gotten around > *every* copy protection system so far. They are costing their > customers grief, and money out of their pockets to try and find a > cdrom drive that doesn't have a problem with copy protcted disks. > Besides that, I'm legally allowed to make one backup of any software I > buy. I can't because of the copy protection. My rights are being > infringed upon. That's my $00.02 on the issue. > -- > Jagg

On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:17:43 -0600, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Actually Jagg you can make a backup of it, there are programs out there that >will let you backup Copy Protected CDs Doesn't work on my cdrom drive. I've tried it. >I love how people use the "infringing on my rights" argument though, like >you actually feel violated because you can not back up that CD. I never said *violated*. I said my rights are *infringed* upon. Big difference. I do have the legal right to make a backup. Do you deny that? -- Jagg

In article <95ud4c$n8e$[email hidden]>, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote: > This coming from someone that had to use profanity 3 times in 16 words >Perhaps they didn't have to use profanity but rather desired to. Everytime I get a disc that doesn't work in one of my cdroms I get the urge to steal the software just to teach em a lesson. I resist the urge but I still get it. Chris Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

But you can make a copy of it. Just because your CD-Rom does not support the program that allows you to do it is not Game Companies fault That would be like me getting mad at a company for releasing the game on CD if I do not have a burner and I want to back it up. "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:17:43 -0600, "Cliff Roman" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >Actually Jagg you can make a backup of it, there are programs out therethat

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> >will let you backup Copy Protected CDs > > Doesn't work on my cdrom drive. I've tried it. > > >I love how people use the "infringing on my rights" argument though, like > >you actually feel violated because you can not back up that CD. > > I never said *violated*. I said my rights are *infringed* upon. Big > difference. I do have the legal right to make a backup. Do you deny > that? > -- > Jagg

On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:35:32 -0600, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >But you can make a copy of it. Just because your CD-Rom does not support >the program that allows you to do it is not Game Companies fault > >That would be like me getting mad at a company for releasing the game on CD >if I do not have a burner and I want to back it up. No it's not. It's like releasing a game that doesn't work on standard hardware. No logic in that, is there? -- Jagg

On Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:48:46 -0600, rrevved <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >You have the 'right' to make a backup, but there is no law >requiring a game maker to make it easy for you. Not easy, but they don't have the right to sell something to someone that doesn't work as advertised either. >I'm sorry to hear about your problem, though. > I don't have a problem. Haven't even bought N4 yet. :-) Just being a mouth piece on an issue that sticks a thorn in my side. -- Jagg

I honestly can not relate.. I have yet to ever buy a piece of software that one of my CD drives had a problem with. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:95uoqs$5je$[email hidden]...

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> In article <95ud4c$n8e$[email hidden]>, > "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > This coming from someone that had to use profanity 3 times in 16 words > > > Perhaps they didn't have to use profanity but rather desired to. > Everytime I get a disc that doesn't work in one of my cdroms I get the > urge to steal the software just to teach em a lesson. I resist the urge > but I still get it. > > Chris > > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/

On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:01:49 -0600, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >I honestly can not relate.. I have yet to ever buy a piece of software that >one of my CD drives had a problem with. So just because you don't have a problem means that all others should shut up? Here's some news for you, I don't have a problem running these copy protected cdroms either. But unlike you, I take a stand on issues that piss me off. -- Jagg

That is far from it.. If you will notice, my argument with you was about the "right to make a backup copy" Ok.. lets say you do have the right, nothing is stopping you but your own hardware. It is not the game companies fault that CloneCD (the program that you can make a backup copy of a copy protected CD) does not support your cd-rom. Be mad all you want at game companies for using Copy Protection.. I still think they have every right to do so and I can understand why they do. However, do not be mad at them because you can not make a backup copy of the CD when that has nothing to do with them. That has to do with your hardware imcompatability with the program that allows you to make backups. "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:01:49 -0600, "Cliff Roman" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >I honestly can not relate.. I have yet to ever buy a piece of softwarethat

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> >one of my CD drives had a problem with. > > So just because you don't have a problem means that all others should > shut up? Here's some news for you, I don't have a problem running > these copy protected cdroms either. But unlike you, I take a stand on > issues that piss me off. > -- > Jagg

This thread, Cliff, is about people being mad because copy protection prevents the game (which they forked out for) running on their systems. Maybe you should re-read the whole thread before mass-responding like a game company PR lackey. Ben....who hasn't ever had a problem either but sympathises with these rednecks^w nascar 4 owners

In article <95ud84$vs4$[email hidden]>, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> writes: >Actually Jagg you can make a backup of it, there are programs out there that >will let you backup Copy Protected CDs > >I love how people use the "infringing on my rights" argument though, like >you actually feel violated because you can not back up that CD. I don't know about the 'infringing' part, but I *can* understand people needing to make backups. The media CAN get scratched from continued handling, which happens because you need the CD just to RUN the program. Some people have kids or pets who see the shiny discs as toys>shudder<... Fortunately(or not), I live alone, with no kids or pets. I don't have to worry about that, but I *have* misplaced a CD to a game that I decided to play on the spur of the moment... :( Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <95t1v2$1cu2$[email hidden]>, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> writes: >Jagg, you honestly can not blame the publishers for using Copy Protection > >Not with as much piracy as there are these days The copy protection only stops the serious pirates for about 30 minutes. It screws up a *legitimate* owner for the full time they run the program. A lot of people have to find cracks just to use the software they BUY. What's wrong with this picture? I can see someone saying "Hell, I have to use a crack to play the stupid thing ANYWAY. Maybe I'll just save my money this time..." Not saying it's right, but the manufactures are hurting the WRONG people most of the time... :( Eldred - who HATES looking for the CD to a game I haven't played in about 5-6 months... :( -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:52:34 -0600, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>That is far from it.. > >If you will notice, my argument with you was about the "right to make a >backup copy" > >Ok.. lets say you do have the right, nothing is stopping you but your own >hardware.

No, the copy protection is stopping me. My hardware is not at fault.I shouldn't have to buy "Clone CD" to make a copy even. >It is not the game companies fault that CloneCD (the program that you can >make a backup copy of a copy protected CD) does not support your cd-rom. Yes it is. >Be mad all you want at game companies for using Copy Protection.. I still >think they have every right to do so and I can understand why they do. But, it's been proven time after time that it only succeeds in ripping off legitimate consumers. It's a no-win deal. >However, do not be mad at them because you can not make a backup copy of the >CD when that has nothing to do with them. Read the above. > That has to do with your hardware >imcompatability with the program that allows you to make backups. There should be no reason to have to use 3rd party software to make a backup. I have every ethical right to download the warez version to circumvent their copy protection if my hardware is to blame. I have the right to a backup copy therfore it is ethically right for me to buy the game and then download the warez version too so that I will have a backup copy and not have to use the cdrom. -- Jagg

You have to buy software for various ways to burn programs. What do you mean you should not have to use a 3rd party software to make a backup? What do you normally use to copy a CD???? "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:52:34 -0600, "Cliff Roman" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >That is far from it.. > > > >If you will notice, my argument with you was about the "right to make a > >backup copy" > > > >Ok.. lets say you do have the right, nothing is stopping you but your own > >hardware. > > No, the copy protection is stopping me. My hardware is not at fault.I > shouldn't have to buy "Clone CD" to make a copy even. > > >It is not the game companies fault that CloneCD (the program that you can > >make a backup copy of a copy protected CD) does not support your cd-rom. > > Yes it is. > > >Be mad all you want at game companies for using Copy Protection.. I still > >think they have every right to do so and I can understand why they do. > > But, it's been proven time after time that it only succeeds in ripping > off legitimate consumers. It's a no-win deal. > > >However, do not be mad at them because you can not make a backup copy of

the

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> >CD when that has nothing to do with them. > > Read the above. > > > That has to do with your hardware > >imcompatability with the program that allows you to make backups. > > There should be no reason to have to use 3rd party software to make a > backup. I have every ethical right to download the warez version to > circumvent their copy protection if my hardware is to blame. I have > the right to a backup copy therfore it is ethically right for me to > buy the game and then download the warez version too so that I will > have a backup copy and not have to use the cdrom. > > -- > Jagg

Cliff Roman wrote: > Be mad all you want at game companies for using Copy Protection.. I still > think they have every right to do so and I can understand why they do. I would agree... IF... it stopped those they are trying to stop. Those groups/individual aren't stopped by this technology though. Therefore, since all it REALLY does is mess with the legit *paying* customers, it's not a real bright move on behalf of the software companies. -- Fester

You have to remember though, not everyone knows of places to get cracks for games or anything about the warez world. Why do you think that games like Frogger outsell games like Quake 3? You can bet that more people play Quake 3, but those that do are the ones that know about warez and crack sites. A larger percentage of people that play games like Frogger have no clue that world even exists. "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Cliff Roman wrote: > > > Be mad all you want at game companies for using Copy Protection.. Istill

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> > think they have every right to do so and I can understand why they do. > > > I would agree... IF... it stopped those they are trying to stop. Those > groups/individual aren't stopped by this technology though. Therefore, > since all it REALLY does is mess with the legit *paying* customers, it's > not a real bright move on behalf of the software companies. > > -- > > Fester

On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:24:17 -0600, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >You have to buy software for various ways to burn programs. > >What do you mean you should not have to use a 3rd party software to make a >backup? What do you normally use to copy a CD???? Nero. Came with the cdrw drive. That's all I should need. Anyway, I'm just being the devils advocate. I don't really care if I make backups. I rarely do when I can, but it would be nice to be able to without being hindered by copy protection schemes. -- Jagg

What a load of crock! Ben Cliff Roman wrote in message <95vja2> >Why do you think that games like Frogger outsell games like Quake 3? You >can bet that more people play Quake 3, but those that do are the ones that >know about warez and crack sites. A larger percentage of people that play >games like Frogger have no clue that world even exists. > >

hehe...You are deep into this futile effort to defend an illogical effort on the part of game companies to stop people who are lots sharper than even hardcore quake players. The ripping off of software on the scale that is harming people is being done not by some lonely little piece of shit in some dark room but by companies safe behind borders of countries that dont recognise property rights. Your position is illogica because exactly as has been pointed out to you the copy protection bullshit is bypassed easily by the dedicated...all this bullshit copy protection does is piss off legit owners and given the state of PC gaming thats just not a very smart thing to do. The problem is that managers cannot just do nothing...else someone higher up the foodchain will be pissed off by the inaction. Sooo the manager responsible makes a decision to put something there even if he knows its absolutely absurd. PAPADOC

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>You have to remember though, not everyone knows of places to get cracks for >games or anything about the warez world. > >Why do you think that games like Frogger outsell games like Quake 3? You >can bet that more people play Quake 3, but those that do are the ones that >know about warez and crack sites. A larger percentage of people that play >games like Frogger have no clue that world even exists. >

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Flanker Target Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy Rants, Bullshit and Help Guides availible at www.papadoc.net

Do you think I like having to have a CD in my drive to play a game? Hell No.. of course I wish that they did not include copy protection on CDs etc.. That is not my point. My point is that I am open minded enough to look at it from their view and understand why they do it. That was my whole comment on the Copy Protection thread. "I can understand why they do it". That is all that I said. "Pierre Legrand" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3a839989.30583518@news...

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> > > hehe...You are deep into this futile effort to defend an illogical > effort on the part of game companies to stop people who are lots > sharper than even hardcore quake players. The ripping off of software > on the scale that is harming people is being done not by some lonely > little piece of shit in some dark room but by companies safe behind > borders of countries that dont recognise property rights. > > Your position is illogica because exactly as has been pointed out to > you the copy protection bullshit is bypassed easily by the > dedicated...all this bullshit copy protection does is piss off legit > owners and given the state of PC gaming thats just not a very smart > thing to do. The problem is that managers cannot just do > nothing...else someone higher up the foodchain will be pissed off by > the inaction. Sooo the manager responsible makes a decision to put > something there even if he knows its absolutely absurd. > > PAPADOC > > >You have to remember though, not everyone knows of places to get cracks

for > >games or anything about the warez world. > > > >Why do you think that games like Frogger outsell games like Quake 3?You > >can bet that more people play Quake 3, but those that do are the onesthat > >know about warez and crack sites. A larger percentage of people thatplay

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> >games like Frogger have no clue that world even exists. > > > > Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand > Flanker Target > Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy > Rants, Bullshit and Help Guides availible at > www.papadoc.net

On Fri, 09 Feb 2001 07:22:30 GMT, [email hidden] (Pierre Legrand) thus spoke:

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> > >hehe...You are deep into this futile effort to defend an illogical >effort on the part of game companies to stop people who are lots >sharper than even hardcore quake players. The ripping off of software >on the scale that is harming people is being done not by some lonely >little piece of shit in some dark room but by companies safe behind >borders of countries that dont recognise property rights.

I read in the newspaper recently that 98% of *all* products in China are counterfeit. -- Jagg

On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 06:52:22 -0600, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>Do you think I like having to have a CD in my drive to play a game? Hell >No.. of course I wish that they did not include copy protection on CDs etc.. > >That is not my point. My point is that I am open minded enough to look at >it from their view and understand why they do it. > >That was my whole comment on the Copy Protection thread. "I can understand >why they do it". That is all that I said.

Yes, but we are pointing out to you that doing this is illogical. Come over to the darkside. :-) -- Jagg

And lets not even get into India....<VBG> Where the disposable income is high enough for enough people to have a thriving pirate industry. And then dear old Mother Russia where people seem to believe that its their god given right to screw over western software companies. PAPA DOC > >I read in the newspaper recently that 98% of *all* products in China >are counterfeit. >-- >Jagg Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Flanker Target Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy Rants, Bullshit and Help Guides availible at www.papadoc.net

On Fri, 09 Feb 2001 20:21:09 GMT, [email hidden] (Pierre Legrand) thus spoke: >And lets not even get into India....<VBG> Where the disposable income >is high enough for enough people to have a thriving pirate industry. >And then dear old Mother Russia where people seem to believe that its >their god given right to screw over western software companies. > >PAPA DOC And we are the ones that get butt fucked for it. Yep, real good logic there. :-) -- Jagg

Legrand) thus spoke: And we are the ones that get ******ed for it. Yep, real good logic there. :-) -- Jagg

No, you are just trying to corrupt me!! :) "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 06:52:22 -0600, "Cliff Roman" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >Do you think I like having to have a CD in my drive to play a game? Hell > >No.. of course I wish that they did not include copy protection on CDsetc.. > > > >That is not my point. My point is that I am open minded enough to lookat > >it from their view and understand why they do it. > > > >That was my whole comment on the Copy Protection thread. "I canunderstand > >why they do it". That is all that I said. > > Yes, but we are pointing out to you that doing this is illogical. Come > over to the darkside. :-) > -- > Jagg

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in <[email hidden]>: I have about 60 - 80 CD's with all the games I've bought, out of those only about 6 are of any importance to me. The first thing I do when I buy a game is go and get a "no-cd" crack", because I hate looking through my files of CD's to play a particular game today. I don't pirate software, I pay for my shit, but I go nuts if I have to keep swapping CD's! Thank you crackers! I need you even though I buy everything I play! The whole point of this thread I thought was because N4 wouldn't load and run on a legitamate installation. I can't find N4 yet where I live, but when I get it and it doesn't load and run... I will be REALLY pissed off. >The copy protection only stops the serious pirates for about 30 minutes. > It screws up a *legitimate* owner for the full time they run the >program. A lot of people have to find cracks just to use the software >they BUY.

Its that management mentality....do something...do anything even if its the wrong thing....especially do something if there really isnt anything you can do....because if you dont do anything sure enough someone will realize they dont need you. PAPA DOC > >And we are the ones that get butt fucked for it. Yep, real good logic >there. :-) >-- >Jagg Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand Flanker Target Grand Prix Legends Crash Test Dummy Rants, Bullshit and Help Guides availible at www.papadoc.net

[email hidden] (Jagg) wrote: > I read in the newspaper recently that 98% of *all* products in China > are counterfeit. Yes, but given that so many western goods are now manufactured very cheaply in China, nobody's trying to slap the Chinese government too hard. "Please try to stop all that naughty stealing" on one hand. "Please take this five dollar bill for manufacturing five million dollar's worth of goods" on the other. I think we're currently winning on the overall economic deal judging by the endless stream of Made in China labels I see plastered over everything. Andrew McP

>No it's not. It's like releasing a game that doesn't work on standard >hardware. No logic in that, is there? I guess the question here would be what is "standard" hardware? With a hundred different drive makers out there thinking their way is the best it's no wonder game makers have a problem like this every now and then. It was pointed out that the consoles don't have this problem because of standardization. Great. I don't own a PS2 nor do I ever intend to buy one. But I also don't intend to buy the exact same computer system that you have or the guy next door has or so on and so forth. I got my game Wednesday and had it installed and up and running 15 minutes after I walked in the door after work. And my Creative CD drive is second in it's chain and I had not one problem. Dave Casey Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:52 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) thus spoke:

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>Yes, but given that so many western goods are now manufactured very >cheaply in China, nobody's trying to slap the Chinese government too hard. >"Please try to stop all that naughty stealing" on one hand. "Please take >this five dollar bill for manufacturing five million dollar's worth of >goods" on the other. I think we're currently winning on the overall >economic deal judging by the endless stream of Made in China labels I see >plastered over everything. > >Andrew McP >

The corporate companies are making bigger profits by exploiting *cheap* labour. We, on the other hand, are losing jobs to those countries. -- Jagg

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jagg) writes: > >The corporate companies are making bigger profits by exploiting >*cheap* labour. We, on the other hand, are losing jobs to those >countries. Oh, so that explains a decade of the lowest unemployment numbers since WW2. The same decade in which Malaysian and Chinese manufacturing ballooned. Don McCorkle

Cliff Roman wrote: > Jagg, you honestly can not blame the publishers for using Copy Protection > > Not with as much piracy as there are these days Okay, there is a lot of piracy going on. Problem is, when you hire a company to develop the latest and greatest copy protection, put it on your product and have a no-CD crack out 4 hours after the product hits the shelf (making piracy a heck of a lot easier), the question remains why did you waste (and there's no other term for it) all that money on copy protection that isn't working? Papy had a copy protection scheme in Indianapolis 500: The Simulation (remember that one?); Indycar Racing 1 and by the time NASCAR Racing 1 came out, they figured out that copy protection doesn't work and stopped. Don't ask me why Sierra started it up again.

On 10 Feb 2001 14:17:29 GMT, [email hidden] (Woodie 83) thus spoke: >Oh, so that explains a decade of the lowest unemployment numbers since WW2. >The same decade in which Malaysian and Chinese manufacturing ballooned. > > >Don McCorkle > Mostly due to low paying part time and service industry jobs. Enjoy your Nike shoes. -- Jagg

On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:31:59 GMT, Mike Donnelly Jr <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Don't ask me why Sierra started it up again. > One developer said it is because the retail stores are demanding it. -- Jagg

>Papy had a copy protection scheme in Indianapolis 500: The Simulation >(remember that one?); Indycar Racing 1 and by the time NASCAR Racing 1 came >out, they figured out that copy protection doesn't work and stopped. > >Don't ask me why Sierra started it up again. Probably because it is the future. In the future, your monitor, cotrollers, speakers, tv, everything is going to have to be able to connect to see if you have the "right" to be doing whatever you are doing. Probably sooner than most think, too. -Tim

To let Sierra/Papyrus know the consequences of their actions, we all need to flood their tech support lines with the CD copy protection problems, only then will they hear us. Every time someone complains about the CD, it will generate a tracking ticket, and they will eventually add up so their management will do something about it. I'm personally holding off on purchasing N4 because of this very issue. Jay Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

While I'm sure Papy will understand, I am pretty darned sure that Sierra could care less how we feel about this. Sierra is nothing more than a publisher. They don't understand 'us' like Papy does. I'm also fairly confident that Papy doesn't have much of a say in this matter. -Larry <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:964ael$kvh$[email hidden]... > To let Sierra/Papyrus know the consequences of their actions, we all need > to flood their tech support lines with the CD copy protection problems, > only then will they hear us. Every time someone complains about the CD, > it will generate a tracking ticket, and they will eventually add up sotheir

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> management will do something about it. > > I'm personally holding off on purchasing N4 because of this very issue. > > Jay > > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/

Oh, great. Let the TRUE bone-heads of the industry make the decisions :) -Larry "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:31:59 GMT, Mike Donnelly Jr > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > > >Don't ask me why Sierra started it up again. > > > > One developer said it is because the retail stores are demanding it. > -- > Jagg

In other words, we will all have Digital Leashes stuck up our butt's. Microsoft is already starting that with Windows XP and Office XP. -Larry "The Enigmatic One" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CFhh6.2120$[email hidden]... > > >Papy had a copy protection scheme in Indianapolis 500: The Simulation > >(remember that one?); Indycar Racing 1 and by the time NASCAR Racing 1came > >out, they figured out that copy protection doesn't work and stopped. > > > >Don't ask me why Sierra started it up again. > > Probably because it is the future. In the future, your monitor, > cotrollers, speakers, tv, everything is going to have to be able toconnect to > see if you have the "right" to be doing whatever you are doing. Probably > sooner than most think, too. > > > -Tim >

[email hidden] (Mike Donnelly Jr) wrote in <[email hidden]>: I haven't been able to get my hands on N4 yet so I don't if I'll have problems or not. I don't get the copy protection thing either... I have N3, NLegends and GPL all working without the CD, I have no idea why, they aren't cracked, just straight official installs. Why now!!

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>Papy had a copy protection scheme in Indianapolis 500: The Simulation >(remember that one?); Indycar Racing 1 and by the time NASCAR Racing 1 >came out, they figured out that copy protection doesn't work and >stopped. > >Don't ask me why Sierra started it up again. >

I hope they enjoy the returns it's generating. Jagg wrote:

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> On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:31:59 GMT, Mike Donnelly Jr > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >Don't ask me why Sierra started it up again. > > > > One developer said it is because the retail stores are demanding it. > -- > Jagg

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:05:38 GMT, Mike Donnelly Jr <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >I hope they enjoy the returns it's generating. Most stores won't take returns. Only EB takes returns here. -- Jagg

Sierra has a money back guarentee - you can get your money back , just have to tell them why you don't like it. I seriously doubt the returns are that great, as the security issue really only effects a fairly small percentage of buyers. I agree though, I would be upset if I could not get it to run on my cd-rom, I would either wait for a fix or take it back. More and more gaming companies are using this type of security - let's face it, thanks to all the crooks/warez people, they are forced too. -- Don Burnette "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:05:38 GMT, Mike Donnelly Jr > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >I hope they enjoy the returns it's generating. > > Most stores won't take returns. Only EB takes returns here. > > -- > Jagg

On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 01:26:04 GMT, "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >More and more gaming companies are using this type of security - let's face >it, thanks to all the crooks/warez people, they are forced too. It doesn't stop warez in the least. -- Jagg

thus spoke: It doesn't stop warez in the least. -- Jagg

"Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 01:26:04 GMT, "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> > thus spoke: > > > >More and more gaming companies are using this type of security - let'sface > >it, thanks to all the crooks/warez people, they are forced too. > > It doesn't stop warez in the least. No, but as long as they keep doing their thing, companies publishing games are going to strive to make it more difficult for them. Can't blame them for that. Don Burnette

Sure it does.. not completely, but at least to some degree. You keep acting like anyone and everyone that has a burner knows where to go find cracks. Trust me, that is not the case. Just because we do, does not mean everyone does. I know plenty of people that play games (have the hardware to run N4) and if they went to copy the game and then their copy said "Insert CD", they would have no clue. They would probably burn another 20 coasters trying to figure out why their burner is not working right. "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 01:26:04 GMT, "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> > thus spoke: > > > >More and more gaming companies are using this type of security - let'sface > >it, thanks to all the crooks/warez people, they are forced too. > > It doesn't stop warez in the least. > -- > Jagg

On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 03:18:27 GMT, "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >Can't blame them for >that. > >Don Burnette > > Anyone that can't run a game (or make a backup) because of it can. -- Jagg

thus spoke: Anyone that can't run a game (or make a backup) because of it can. -- Jagg

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 22:07:26 -0600, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>Sure it does.. not completely, but at least to some degree. > >You keep acting like anyone and everyone that has a burner knows where to go >find cracks. Trust me, that is not the case. Just because we do, does not >mean everyone does. > >I know plenty of people that play games (have the hardware to run N4) and if >they went to copy the game and then their copy said "Insert CD", they would >have no clue. They would probably burn another 20 coasters trying to figure >out why their burner is not working right.

True, but those people are not big time pirates and do not pose a real piracy threat. It probably loses more customers than it's worth. Anyway, we've already been over this just the other day and it's quite clear that your's and Don's opinions are greatly in the minority on this issue. -- Jagg

I will fully agree that it probably loses more customers than it is worth. However the game company themselves has to come to that conclusion before they say "ok, we are losing more customers because of this than we gained due to piracy". This is Papys first time using this Copy Protection (did not put it on N3 when MANY other companies were already using it), so let this be their learning stage. I am not sure how fair it is to bash Papy as people have for "not caring about their customers" when this is the first time they have ever tried using this protection. Now, if they know of these problems and then they do it again on the next release.. then I could see slamming them. "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 22:07:26 -0600, "Cliff Roman" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >Sure it does.. not completely, but at least to some degree. > > > >You keep acting like anyone and everyone that has a burner knows where togo > >find cracks. Trust me, that is not the case. Just because we do, doesnot > >mean everyone does. > > > >I know plenty of people that play games (have the hardware to run N4) andif > >they went to copy the game and then their copy said "Insert CD", theywould > >have no clue. They would probably burn another 20 coasters trying tofigure

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> >out why their burner is not working right. > > True, but those people are not big time pirates and do not pose a real > piracy threat. It probably loses more customers than it's worth. > Anyway, we've already been over this just the other day and it's quite > clear that your's and Don's opinions are greatly in the minority on > this issue. > -- > Jagg

On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:06:17 -0600, "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>I will fully agree that it probably loses more customers than it is worth. >However the game company themselves has to come to that conclusion before >they say "ok, we are losing more customers because of this than we gained >due to piracy". > >This is Papys first time using this Copy Protection (did not put it on N3 >when MANY other companies were already using it), so let this be their >learning stage. I am not sure how fair it is to bash Papy as people have >for "not caring about their customers" when this is the first time they have >ever tried using this protection. > >Now, if they know of these problems and then they do it again on the next >release.. then I could see slamming them.

I don't blame Papyrus at all over this issue. Sierra I do. It's common fact that *all* copy protection schemes have caused customers similar problems. -- Jagg

I disagree. I blame the crooks. -- Don Burnette "Jagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 03:18:27 GMT, "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> > thus spoke: > > >Can't blame them for > >that. > > > >Don Burnette > > > > > > Anyone that can't run a game (or make a backup) because of it can. > -- > Jagg