What is Papy Up To These Days?

Been away for a while but am surprised that there is no new Papy package for Christmas. I figured they'd have dragged out the trucks in an N4 add-on but nothing seen on the shelves. Are they still around? Maybe they got commissioned to do Tony George's IRL racing since John Bodin got the cease and desist? Happy Holidays Jeff

The soon to be released WSC probably has them shaking in their boots LOL Don Burnette "Jeffrey Haas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Been away for a while but am surprised that there is no new Papy > package for Christmas. I figured they'd have dragged out the trucks > in an N4 add-on but nothing seen on the shelves. Are they still > around? Maybe they got commissioned to do Tony George's IRL > racing since John Bodin got the cease and desist? > > Happy Holidays > > Jeff

As I remember N4 also was not realised for Christmas, but for start of the season. "Jeffrey Haas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Been away for a while but am surprised that there is no new Papy > package for Christmas. I figured they'd have dragged out the trucks > in an N4 add-on but nothing seen on the shelves. Are they still > around? Maybe they got commissioned to do Tony George's IRL > racing since John Bodin got the cease and desist? > > Happy Holidays > > Jeff

Don Burnette <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JqrQ7.46790$[email hidden]... > The soon to be released WSC probably has them shaking in their boots LOL Soon to be released, as in next summer? (this according to Sonyweb)... John Cauthen

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> > Don Burnette > > > "Jeffrey Haas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Been away for a while but am surprised that there is no new Papy > > package for Christmas. I figured they'd have dragged out the trucks > > in an N4 add-on but nothing seen on the shelves. Are they still > > around? Maybe they got commissioned to do Tony George's IRL > > racing since John Bodin got the cease and desist? > > > > Happy Holidays > > > > Jeff > >

> Soon to be released, as in next summer? (this according to Sonyweb)... > Oh, its now next summer? Why do they keep pushing it back everytime we get closer to the projected release? I'm growing wary hearing of this possible title.

"JJ Sricklin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3nuQ7.625$[email hidden]... > > Soon to be released, as in next summer? (this according to Sonyweb)... > > > Oh, its now next summer? Why do they keep pushing it back everytime weget > closer to > the projected release? I'm growing wary hearing of this possible title. > > I think it must be vaporware. Ever see any information posted here or anywhere else by the developers? Nothing in a long time. I bet when they started it rendition cards were the wave. I hope they prove me wrong, but right now I am not expecting it at all. Don Burnette

Maybe they're busy working on the N4 damage model.......nah<G> -John Jeffrey Haas <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Been away for a while but am surprised that there is no new Papy > package for Christmas. I figured they'd have dragged out the trucks > in an N4 add-on but nothing seen on the shelves. Are they still > around? Maybe they got commissioned to do Tony George's IRL > racing since John Bodin got the cease and desist? > > Happy Holidays > > Jeff

CART sim PAPY!!! EFF THE I$L !!!!!!!

CART sim PAPY! EFF the I$L!!

The way you slam the IRL is by using a dollar sign? I guess that makes sense. No one in their right mind would place a dollar sign anywhere near a mention of CART, not even as a bad joke. Unless trying to show the losing of money. btgoss Papy is working on N5, demo to be released in Feb. Just like N4 demo came out. Tie it into the start of the New Nascar season. And guess what next year will bring? N6. When will it stop? When NASCAR stops being a profitable license, or when hell freezes over. "TRUSRS85" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > CART sim PAPY!!! > > EFF THE I$L !!!!!!!

Who really cares? With the crap they've been churning out since GPL, it wouldn't affect me one bit if we never heard from them again ;) Seems that they completely spent any unique and interesting ideas they had on GPL- and yes, we REALLY need another boring, insipid oval racing sim next year. -- "The chief qualities of a racing driver are concentration, determination and anticipation ... A 1929 Austin without brakes develops all three - anticipation rather more than the first two, perhaps."- Graham Hill Scott Moore The Pits Touring Car Championship http://www.theuspits.com http://www.thenorwaypits.com ICQ 13433409 "Jeffrey Haas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Been away for a while but am surprised that there is no new Papy > package for Christmas. I figured they'd have dragged out the trucks > in an N4 add-on but nothing seen on the shelves. Are they still > around? Maybe they got commissioned to do Tony George's IRL > racing since John Bodin got the cease and desist? > > Happy Holidays > > Jeff

When have I ever slammed the effen I$L?

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> >The way you slam the IRL is by using a dollar sign? I guess that makes >sense. No one in their right mind would place a dollar sign anywhere near a >mention of CART, not even as a bad joke. Unless trying to show the losing of >money. > >btgoss > >Papy is working on N5, demo to be released in Feb. Just like N4 demo came >out. Tie it into the start of the New Nascar season. And guess what next >year will bring? N6. When will it stop? When NASCAR stops being a profitable >license, or when hell freezes over. > > >"TRUSRS85" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> CART sim PAPY!!! >> >> EFF THE I$L !!!!!!!

The N4 damage model is perfect. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. </sarcasm> -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Maybe they're busy working on the N4 damage model.......nah<G> > > -John > > > Jeffrey Haas <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Been away for a while but am surprised that there is no new Papy > > package for Christmas. I figured they'd have dragged out the trucks > > in an N4 add-on but nothing seen on the shelves. Are they still > > around? Maybe they got commissioned to do Tony George's IRL > > racing since John Bodin got the cease and desist? > > > > Happy Holidays > > > > Jeff > >

LOL! Thanks for the reminder Scott; sorry about that, got carried away <G> -John Scott B. Husted <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3c129575$[email hidden]...

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> The N4 damage model is perfect. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. > > > </sarcasm> > > -- > Scott B. Husted > ICQ# 4395450 > http://www.Husted.cc > > > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Maybe they're busy working on the N4 damage model.......nah<G> > > > > -John > > > > > > Jeffrey Haas <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Been away for a while but am surprised that there is no new Papy > > > package for Christmas. I figured they'd have dragged out the trucks > > > in an N4 add-on but nothing seen on the shelves. Are they still > > > around? Maybe they got commissioned to do Tony George's IRL > > > racing since John Bodin got the cease and desist? > > > > > > Happy Holidays > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > >

"John Cauthen> Soon to be released, as in next summer? (this according to Sonyweb)... > > John Cauthen uhmmm I think the 'Next' summer mentioned at that website was LAST summer. (2001) dave henrie

But Scott! If they do N5 they can include the two new tracks that look just like the half dozen or so they already have of that length.. :) dave henrie (I have CArt Heat...wonderfully fun to drive 248+mph without messing with Plate hacks etc. I will get Cart World Series or whatever that F1 2001 port is gonna be called, and I'll keep my fingers crossed for expanded multiplayer AND more fingers crossed for WSC.) dave henrie "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XcwQ7.3073$[email hidden]... > Who really cares? With the crap they've been churning out since GPL, it > wouldn't affect me one bit if we never heard from them again ;) > Seems that they completely spent any unique and interesting ideas they had > on GPL- and yes, we REALLY need another boring, insipid oval racing simnext > year. > > -- > "The chief qualities of a racing driver are concentration, determinationand

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> anticipation ... > A 1929 Austin without brakes develops all three - > anticipation rather more than the first two, perhaps."- > Graham Hill > > Scott Moore > The Pits Touring Car Championship > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.thenorwaypits.com > ICQ 13433409 > > > "Jeffrey Haas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Been away for a while but am surprised that there is no new Papy > > package for Christmas. I figured they'd have dragged out the trucks > > in an N4 add-on but nothing seen on the shelves. Are they still > > around? Maybe they got commissioned to do Tony George's IRL > > racing since John Bodin got the cease and desist? > > > > Happy Holidays > > > > Jeff > >

Tis is a little harsh saying that since GPL was released, everything that Papy has released is crap. Have you driven the simulation that is NASCAR 4. Forgetting that the game simulates 90+ % of the tracks as ovals there are 2 tracks that are road courses (Watkins and Sears), and before you interrupt the cars are way over weight and feel like tanks, the actual simulation is actually top notch. (If this doesn't make total sense i've been drinking that falling down water stuff....) Papy are the greatest! Mark "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XcwQ7.3073$[email hidden]... > Who really cares? With the crap they've been churning out since GPL, it > wouldn't affect me one bit if we never heard from them again ;) > Seems that they completely spent any unique and interesting ideas they had > on GPL- and yes, we REALLY need another boring, insipid oval racing simnext > year. > > -- > "The chief qualities of a racing driver are concentration, determinationand

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> anticipation ... > A 1929 Austin without brakes develops all three - > anticipation rather more than the first two, perhaps."- > Graham Hill > > Scott Moore > The Pits Touring Car Championship > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.thenorwaypits.com > ICQ 13433409 > > > "Jeffrey Haas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Been away for a while but am surprised that there is no new Papy > > package for Christmas. I figured they'd have dragged out the trucks > > in an N4 add-on but nothing seen on the shelves. Are they still > > around? Maybe they got commissioned to do Tony George's IRL > > racing since John Bodin got the cease and desist? > > > > Happy Holidays > > > > Jeff > >

"Mark Coates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9uuddg$bdj08$[email hidden]... > Tis is a little harsh saying that since GPL was released, everything that > Papy has released is crap. Have you driven the simulation that is NASCAR4. Yep, I have- both pre and post patch. Went straight back to EB both times, because I don't buy into it being a top notch simulation of anything but a GPL car that gained a full body. I know I'm in the minority, but the cars have no feeling of weight at all, no connection with the track....it's the perfect simulation of a stock car that weighs 1500 lbs and rides on 6 1/2 inch tires. Add the crappy, cpu-hogging graphics engine, the plethora of online and offline scoring bugs, horrid AI, 2nd rate overall appearance......well, you see what I think of it, no need to go on. Like I said- it's all opinion, but I still say Papyrus has gone to hell since 1998. There are a couple companies doing much better work, they just don't have everyone brainwashed into thinking everything they make is 100% accurate and perfect...

Don't be surprised to see a Nascar Racing series upgrade early next year followed by a foray into the world of consoles with an Open-Wheel game... And with the latest happenings with IRLHeat, IRL is the leading contender in my mind (but I couldn't get more than "open-wheel" from .. someone... :)

My feelings exactly Scott, and most don't like hearing it from me either<G> Said before, I actually enjoy it a lot, but it IS GPL with a stock car wrapper, not a stock car sim IMO. -John Scott Moore <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:G6zQ7.3134$[email hidden]...

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> > > I don't buy into it being a top notch simulation of anything but a > GPL car that gained a full body. I know I'm in the minority, but the cars > have no feeling of weight at all, no connection with the track....it's the > perfect simulation of a stock car that weighs 1500 lbs and rides on 6 1/2 > inch tires. < > > > >

On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 17:12:27 -0500, "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Who really cares? With the crap they've been churning out since GPL, it >wouldn't affect me one bit if we never heard from them again ;) >Seems that they completely spent any unique and interesting ideas they had >on GPL- and yes, we REALLY need another boring, insipid oval racing sim next >year. As opposed to another boring F1 road racing sim next year? Lest ye forget, in some parts of the world road racing gets the big yawn. Given how lop sided some of the races are it is justly deserved. Other races actually generate some overtaking (passing for the stateside crowd) and for some reason Europeans generally don't like it. Go figure.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/~chris.west/webcam/webcamremote.html Don Burnette wrote:

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> I think it must be vaporware. Ever see any information posted here or > anywhere else by the developers? > Nothing in a long time. > I bet when they started it rendition cards were the wave. > I hope they prove me wrong, but right now I am not expecting it at all. > > Don Burnette > > > > > > >

I think N4 is good, but the damage model absolutely sucks and ruins it as a simulation. YES... damage modeling in stock car racing is a significant part of racing! -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Mark Coates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9uuddg$bdj08$[email hidden]... > Tis is a little harsh saying that since GPL was released, everything that > Papy has released is crap. Have you driven the simulation that is NASCAR 4. > Forgetting that the game simulates 90+ % of the tracks as ovals there are 2 > tracks that are road courses (Watkins and Sears), and before you interrupt > the cars are way over weight and feel like tanks, the actual simulation is > actually top notch. > > (If this doesn't make total sense i've been drinking that falling down water > stuff....) > > Papy are the greatest! > > > Mark > > > > "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:XcwQ7.3073$[email hidden]... > > Who really cares? With the crap they've been churning out since GPL, it > > wouldn't affect me one bit if we never heard from them again ;) > > Seems that they completely spent any unique and interesting ideas they had > > on GPL- and yes, we REALLY need another boring, insipid oval racing sim > next > > year. > > > > -- > > "The chief qualities of a racing driver are concentration, determination > and > > anticipation ... > > A 1929 Austin without brakes develops all three - > > anticipation rather more than the first two, perhaps."- > > Graham Hill > > > > Scott Moore > > The Pits Touring Car Championship > > http://www.theuspits.com > > http://www.thenorwaypits.com > > ICQ 13433409 > > > > > > "Jeffrey Haas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Been away for a while but am surprised that there is no new Papy > > > package for Christmas. I figured they'd have dragged out the trucks > > > in an N4 add-on but nothing seen on the shelves. Are they still > > > around? Maybe they got commissioned to do Tony George's IRL > > > racing since John Bodin got the cease and desist? > > > > > > Happy Holidays > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > >

Good Question... -Larry "Jeffrey Haas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Been away for a while but am surprised that there is no new Papy > package for Christmas. I figured they'd have dragged out the trucks > in an N4 add-on but nothing seen on the shelves. Are they still > around? Maybe they got commissioned to do Tony George's IRL > racing since John Bodin got the cease and desist? > > Happy Holidays > > Jeff

The only thing I don't like about the damage model is that they (still) haven't included perpetual damage repairs. In real life, you can make the car a little bit better with multiple pit stops. N4 (like it's predecessors) has 'canned' damage and repair results. The repair result is always the same for any given damage. In real life, completely once-mangled race cars have won races. -Larry "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3c140742$[email hidden]... > I think N4 is good, but the damage model absolutely sucks and ruins it asa

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> simulation. YES... damage modeling in stock car racing is a significant > part of racing! > > -- > Scott B. Husted > ICQ# 4395450 > http://www.Husted.cc > > > "Mark Coates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9uuddg$bdj08$[email hidden]... > > Tis is a little harsh saying that since GPL was released, everything

that > > Papy has released is crap. Have you driven the simulation that is NASCAR > 4. > > Forgetting that the game simulates 90+ % of the tracks as ovals thereare > 2 > > tracks that are road courses (Watkins and Sears), and before youinterrupt > > the cars are way over weight and feel like tanks, the actual simulationis

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> > actually top notch. > > > > (If this doesn't make total sense i've been drinking that falling down > water > > stuff....) > > > > Papy are the greatest! > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > "Scott Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:XcwQ7.3073$[email hidden]... > > > Who really cares? With the crap they've been churning out since GPL,

it > > > wouldn't affect me one bit if we never heard from them again ;) > > > Seems that they completely spent any unique and interesting ideas they > had > > > on GPL- and yes, we REALLY need another boring, insipid oval racingsim > > next > > > year. > > > > > > -- > > > "The chief qualities of a racing driver are concentration,determination

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> > and > > > anticipation ... > > > A 1929 Austin without brakes develops all three - > > > anticipation rather more than the first two, perhaps."- > > > Graham Hill > > > > > > Scott Moore > > > The Pits Touring Car Championship > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > http://www.thenorwaypits.com > > > ICQ 13433409 > > > > > > > > > "Jeffrey Haas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Been away for a while but am surprised that there is no new Papy > > > > package for Christmas. I figured they'd have dragged out the trucks > > > > in an N4 add-on but nothing seen on the shelves. Are they still > > > > around? Maybe they got commissioned to do Tony George's IRL > > > > racing since John Bodin got the cease and desist? > > > > > > > > Happy Holidays > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > >

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>I think it must be vaporware. Ever see any information posted here or >anywhere else by the developers? >Nothing in a long time. >I bet when they started it rendition cards were the wave. >I hope they prove me wrong, but right now I am not expecting it at all. > >

They aren't allowed to post information any longer. That's why you haven't heard anything for such a long time :0) It *IS* still being developed though. When will it be ready? Who knows, but it's still a-comin', and will be awesome when it arrives... Todd Wasson --- Performance Simulations Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction Software http://PerformanceSimulations.Com

Floppy <[email hidden]> writes: > Don't be surprised to see a Nascar Racing series upgrade early next > year followed by a foray into the world of consoles with an Open-Wheel > game... And with the latest happenings with IRLHeat, IRL is the > leading contender in my mind (but I couldn't get more than > "open-wheel" from .. someone... :) And IRL sim by Papy would be as much of a waste of talent as making Helio Castroneves and Gil de Ferran drive the series fulltime. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Dave Henre? Have you changed your name by deed poll? Rafe Mc On Sun, 09 Dec 2001 01:01:25 GMT, "Dave Henre" <[email hidden]> wrote:

On Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:52:49 -0500, "Scott B. Husted" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I think N4 is good, but the damage model absolutely sucks and ruins it as a >simulation. YES... damage modeling in stock car racing is a significant >part of racing! > >-- How could it "ruin" the simulation? Even if the damage modelling is completely unacceptable, if you don't wreck it is not in any way effecting your driving experience. (Unless you wreck every race). Sure, you might miss the detailed wrinkles in your fenders at Martinsville, but at a short track the effects of minor damage are not going to be nearly as significant anyway. The tracks it matters most at, the fast tracks, are the ones where you're very unlikely to suffer any contact with other cars.

On Sat, 08 Dec 2001 20:24:33 GMT, "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote: ... >I think it must be vaporware. Ever see any information posted here or >anywhere else by the developers? >Nothing in a long time. >I bet when they started it rendition cards were the wave. It's been converted from Glide to DX8 by now. And it's not vaporware, fortunately. Ruud van Gaal Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/ Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Thanks for pointing that out Rafe. I have been having a big big big really BIG problem with my email since excite@home went bad. I musta retyped that and missed a letter. I can still receive emails, but I keep getting the same 15, when the 16th message tries to dload, it times out...even with my timeout setting all the way to max at 5 minutes. I've been in contact with two tier one techs but each time they refer me to the tier two techs, I've been disconected...(heavy problems with the excite/at&t switchover) so I'm struggling with hotmail and a few other workarounds til I get this figured out. dave henrie "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Dave Henre? Have you changed your name by deed poll? > > Rafe Mc > > On Sun, 09 Dec 2001 01:01:25 GMT, "Dave Henre" <[email hidden]> > wrote: >

"Olav K. Malmin"

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> > Don't be surprised to see a Nascar Racing series upgrade early next > > year followed by a foray into the world of consoles with an Open-Wheel > > game... And with the latest happenings with IRLHeat, IRL is the > > leading contender in my mind (but I couldn't get more than > > "open-wheel" from .. someone... :) > > And IRL sim by Papy would be as much of a waste of talent as making > Helio Castroneves and Gil de Ferran drive the series fulltime. > -- > Olav K. Malmin

Ouch Olav! That hurts this old time CART fan, hurts a-lot....... dave ;( henrie

Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the problem. It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the pits for repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the wreck. What you say below has nothing to do with the problem. -John

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> > How could it "ruin" the simulation? Even if the damage modelling is > completely unacceptable, if you don't wreck it is not in any way > effecting your driving experience. (Unless you wreck every race). > > Sure, you might miss the detailed wrinkles in your fenders at > Martinsville, but at a short track the effects of minor damage are not > going to be nearly as significant anyway. The tracks it matters most > at, the fast tracks, are the ones where you're very unlikely to > suffer any contact with other cars. > >

On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:58:41 -0700, "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the problem. >It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the pits for >repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the wreck. > > What you say below has nothing to do with the problem. > >-John

I've never seen a car in NASCAR 4 get wrecked, pit, come out after repairs and win the race. If they are running the best times they're running them 3 laps down so again, how does that theoretical flaw ruin your driving experience? Secondly, my experience is that after wrecking and repairing a car it generally is slower, not faster, often the engine will not generate its full rpms if you've taken a lick to the front; if you've been hit in the back you lose downforce and have a hard time maintaining control in the turns.

"shrug" Then you're one of the few. I've done it myself. -John meettonysoprano <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:58:41 -0700, "John Pancoast" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the problem. > >It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the pits for > >repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the wreck. > > > > What you say below has nothing to do with the problem. > > > >-John > > I've never seen a car in NASCAR 4 get wrecked, pit, come out after > repairs and win the race. If they are running the best times they're > running them 3 laps down so again, how does that theoretical flaw ruin > your driving experience? > > Secondly, my experience is that after wrecking and repairing a car it > generally is slower, not faster, often the engine will not generate > its full rpms if you've taken a lick to the front; if you've been hit > in the back you lose downforce and have a hard time maintaining > control in the turns. > >

In our many TPTCC road races(based on N3)...I would "purposely" allowthe front end to be dinged to increase downforce. If you don't do major damage it is possible to turn better times after slight wrecks. Of course I discovered this only after many hours of scientific testing and it also has NO bearing on N4. But I would suspect some of these things might behappening when you turn better times.... a) you've become aclimated to the different driving condition(damage) and have adjusted your style b) the damage actually accentuates downforce or lessens drag due to the placement of the damage. c) you're like me and haven't turned enough laps anywhere to get the full benefit out of the car. dave henrie "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "shrug" Then you're one of the few. I've done it myself. > > -John > > > meettonysoprano <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:58:41 -0700, "John Pancoast" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the problem. > > >It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the pits for > > >repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the

wreck.

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> > > > > > What you say below has nothing to do with the problem. > > > > > >-John > > > > I've never seen a car in NASCAR 4 get wrecked, pit, come out after > > repairs and win the race. If they are running the best times they're > > running them 3 laps down so again, how does that theoretical flaw ruin > > your driving experience? > > > > Secondly, my experience is that after wrecking and repairing a car it > > generally is slower, not faster, often the engine will not generate > > its full rpms if you've taken a lick to the front; if you've been hit > > in the back you lose downforce and have a hard time maintaining > > control in the turns. > > > > > >

On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:49:26 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote: > In our many TPTCC road races(based on N3)...I would "purposely" allowthe >front end to be dinged to increase downforce. It seemed to work pretty well for Robby Gordon in New Hampshire, too.

Nothing that detailed Dave, thanks. I've been _t-boned_ at high speeds, as have others, and after flipping X times, even IF there is ANY damage, just go into the pits, and wahlah, repair, race ready. IOW, front end damage is the least of concerns<G> -John Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WZaR7.27413$wL4.67896@rwcrnsc51... > In our many TPTCC road races(based on N3)...I would "purposely" allowthe > front end to be dinged to increase downforce. If you don't do majordamage > it is possible to turn better times after slight wrecks. Of course I > discovered this only after many hours of scientific testing and it alsohas

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> NO bearing on N4. But I would suspect some of these things might > behappening when you turn better times.... > a) you've become aclimated to the different driving condition(damage) and > have adjusted your style > b) the damage actually accentuates downforce or lessens drag due to the > placement of the damage. > c) you're like me and haven't turned enough laps anywhere to get the full > benefit out of the car. > dave henrie > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "shrug" Then you're one of the few. I've done it myself. > > > > -John > > > > > > meettonysoprano <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:58:41 -0700, "John Pancoast" > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the

problem. > > > >It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the pitsfor

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> > > >repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the > wreck. > > > > > > > > What you say below has nothing to do with the problem. > > > > > > > >-John > > > > > > I've never seen a car in NASCAR 4 get wrecked, pit, come out after > > > repairs and win the race. If they are running the best times they're > > > running them 3 laps down so again, how does that theoretical flaw ruin > > > your driving experience? > > > > > > Secondly, my experience is that after wrecking and repairing a car it > > > generally is slower, not faster, often the engine will not generate > > > its full rpms if you've taken a lick to the front; if you've been hit > > > in the back you lose downforce and have a hard time maintaining > > > control in the turns. > > > > > > > > > > > >

meettonysoprano, You must not race on WON :) There, Wrecking IS Racing. Especially on the Papy Level 6 server :( -Larry "meettonysoprano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:52:49 -0500, "Scott B. Husted" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I think N4 is good, but the damage model absolutely sucks and ruins it asa

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> >simulation. YES... damage modeling in stock car racing is a significant > >part of racing! > > > >-- > > How could it "ruin" the simulation? Even if the damage modelling is > completely unacceptable, if you don't wreck it is not in any way > effecting your driving experience. (Unless you wreck every race). > > Sure, you might miss the detailed wrinkles in your fenders at > Martinsville, but at a short track the effects of minor damage are not > going to be nearly as significant anyway. The tracks it matters most > at, the fast tracks, are the ones where you're very unlikely to > suffer any contact with other cars. > >

PLENTY of damaged cars have won Nascar Races. You must not watch them all. -Larry "meettonysoprano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:58:41 -0700, "John Pancoast" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the problem. > >It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the pits for > >repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the wreck. > > > > What you say below has nothing to do with the problem. > > > >-John > > I've never seen a car in NASCAR 4 get wrecked, pit, come out after > repairs and win the race. If they are running the best times they're > running them 3 laps down so again, how does that theoretical flaw ruin > your driving experience? > > Secondly, my experience is that after wrecking and repairing a car it > generally is slower, not faster, often the engine will not generate > its full rpms if you've taken a lick to the front; if you've been hit > in the back you lose downforce and have a hard time maintaining > control in the turns. > >

Hehe :) Earnhardt was accused of that from time to time :) Denting the hood to increase downforce to fix a push :) Smart move if you ask me :) -Larry "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WZaR7.27413$wL4.67896@rwcrnsc51... > In our many TPTCC road races(based on N3)...I would "purposely" allowthe > front end to be dinged to increase downforce. If you don't do majordamage > it is possible to turn better times after slight wrecks. Of course I > discovered this only after many hours of scientific testing and it alsohas

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> NO bearing on N4. But I would suspect some of these things might > behappening when you turn better times.... > a) you've become aclimated to the different driving condition(damage) and > have adjusted your style > b) the damage actually accentuates downforce or lessens drag due to the > placement of the damage. > c) you're like me and haven't turned enough laps anywhere to get the full > benefit out of the car. > dave henrie > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "shrug" Then you're one of the few. I've done it myself. > > > > -John > > > > > > meettonysoprano <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:58:41 -0700, "John Pancoast" > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the

problem. > > > >It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the pitsfor

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> > > >repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the > wreck. > > > > > > > > What you say below has nothing to do with the problem. > > > > > > > >-John > > > > > > I've never seen a car in NASCAR 4 get wrecked, pit, come out after > > > repairs and win the race. If they are running the best times they're > > > running them 3 laps down so again, how does that theoretical flaw ruin > > > your driving experience? > > > > > > Secondly, my experience is that after wrecking and repairing a car it > > > generally is slower, not faster, often the engine will not generate > > > its full rpms if you've taken a lick to the front; if you've been hit > > > in the back you lose downforce and have a hard time maintaining > > > control in the turns. > > > > > > > > > > > >

But not ones that have barrel-rolled down the backstretch. I think that is his point. dave henrie "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vzgR7.1560$[email hidden]... > PLENTY of damaged cars have won Nascar Races. You must not watch themall.

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> > -Larry > > "meettonysoprano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:58:41 -0700, "John Pancoast" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the problem. > > >It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the pits for > > >repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the

wreck.

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> > > > > > What you say below has nothing to do with the problem. > > > > > >-John > > > > I've never seen a car in NASCAR 4 get wrecked, pit, come out after > > repairs and win the race. If they are running the best times they're > > running them 3 laps down so again, how does that theoretical flaw ruin > > your driving experience? > > > > Secondly, my experience is that after wrecking and repairing a car it > > generally is slower, not faster, often the engine will not generate > > its full rpms if you've taken a lick to the front; if you've been hit > > in the back you lose downforce and have a hard time maintaining > > control in the turns. > > > > > >

Thank you Dave. I must admit, I didn't present my "case" very well<G> -John Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MJgR7.31676$ER5.343613@rwcrnsc52...

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> But not ones that have barrel-rolled down the backstretch. I think that > is his point. > dave henrie > > > >

On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:10:51 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> wrote: >PLENTY of damaged cars have won Nascar Races. You must not watch them all. > It is difficult to imagine how you could have reached the conclusion that we were discussing the results of real life NASCAR events considering the repeated mention of "NASCAR 4" and that Papyrus is in the name of this thread. Nonetheless let me clarify for you: we are discussing the computer game "NASCAR 4" published by Papyrus in which the player drives a stock car in competition against the AI or other human players, not about the actual sport that we watch Sunday mornings on television.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:09:58 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> wrote: >meettonysoprano, > >You must not race on WON :) > Yeah, I race there quite a lot (or the "Papy Servers" as I am used to calling them.) I see a lot of wrecking but I never to my knowledge have seen someone who pitted to get damage repaired go on to win a race. (Having pitted for that purpose plenty of times myself I know that you end up several laps down due to the lack of yellow flags).

I very rarely race on the Papy servers, and never without yellow flags, so that may be where some of the confusion lies. I wasn't very clear, sorry about that. -John meettonysoprano <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:09:58 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" > > Yeah, I race there quite a lot (or the "Papy Servers" as I am used to > calling them.) I see a lot of wrecking but I never to my knowledge > have seen someone who pitted to get damage repaired go on to win a > race. (Having pitted for that purpose plenty of times myself I know > that you end up several laps down due to the lack of yellow flags). > >

Didn't rusty come close at Dega one time? This was years ago, but if memory serves (and it quite possibly does not), didn't Earnhardt and Rusty tangle on the last lap at Dega one year, where Earnhardt won and Rusty came in 2nd while doing end-over-ends in the infield? And I still say that (while keeping it REALISTIC Dave), that damaged cares have won races! We should have additive damage repair in N4 as well. Hey, if others can have their 'realistic' pull to the left, then dammit I want my additive damage repairs :) -Larry "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MJgR7.31676$ER5.343613@rwcrnsc52...

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> But not ones that have barrel-rolled down the backstretch. I think that > is his point. > dave henrie > "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:vzgR7.1560$[email hidden]... > > PLENTY of damaged cars have won Nascar Races. You must not watch them > all. > > > > -Larry > > > > "meettonysoprano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:58:41 -0700, "John Pancoast" > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the

problem. > > > >It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the pitsfor

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> > > >repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the > wreck. > > > > > > > > What you say below has nothing to do with the problem. > > > > > > > >-John > > > > > > I've never seen a car in NASCAR 4 get wrecked, pit, come out after > > > repairs and win the race. If they are running the best times they're > > > running them 3 laps down so again, how does that theoretical flaw ruin > > > your driving experience? > > > > > > Secondly, my experience is that after wrecking and repairing a car it > > > generally is slower, not faster, often the engine will not generate > > > its full rpms if you've taken a lick to the front; if you've been hit > > > in the back you lose downforce and have a hard time maintaining > > > control in the turns. > > > > > > > > > > > >

Ok. "meettonysoprano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:10:51 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >PLENTY of damaged cars have won Nascar Races. You must not watch themall.

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> > > > It is difficult to imagine how you could have reached the conclusion > that we were discussing the results of real life NASCAR events > considering the repeated mention of "NASCAR 4" and that Papyrus is in > the name of this thread. Nonetheless let me clarify for you: we are > discussing the computer game "NASCAR 4" published by Papyrus in which > the player drives a stock car in competition against the AI or other > human players, not about the actual sport that we watch Sunday > mornings on television. > > >

Sheesh, you just made MY point man! This is exactly what I have been trying to say... THAT is exactly what I've been trying to say... In REAL life, Nascar Racers get their banged up cars fixed all the time, and go on to win races. Each time they pit, their cars get a little bit better. In N4, once you take a hit, you get a certain amount of damage repaired, and that's it. No more. No matter HOW many times you pit it never gets any better. This is NOT realistic for a Sim that's as notable as N4 for it's realism. You also make another good point. I dare say it is _possible_ to win a race on N4 at Short and Intermediate tracks (but not superspeedways) while damaged IF realism rules are in effect, i.e. Yellow Flags. Most WON Races are short, "he who wrecks everyone out of the way first wins" type of races, which is a real shame. I'd love to see servers dedicated to 50% minimum races with full realism in effect. 40% races were very common on TEN. Maybe would could get Papy to convert one of it's crash-fest servers to 50%, NON-fixed, full-realism races? -Larry "meettonysoprano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 05:09:58 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >meettonysoprano, > > > >You must not race on WON :) > > > > Yeah, I race there quite a lot (or the "Papy Servers" as I am used to > calling them.) I see a lot of wrecking but I never to my knowledge > have seen someone who pitted to get damage repaired go on to win a > race. (Having pitted for that purpose plenty of times myself I know > that you end up several laps down due to the lack of yellow flags). > >

Er, the end of the race, on the last lap, within sight of the line is one thing..........and Rusty's car was undriveable after that too, unlike in N4 with "realistic" damage. -John Larry (The Other Larry) <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0hpR7.2163$[email hidden]...

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> Didn't rusty come close at Dega one time? > > This was years ago, but if memory serves (and it quite possibly does not), > didn't Earnhardt and Rusty tangle on the last lap at Dega one year, where > Earnhardt won and Rusty came in 2nd while doing end-over-ends in the > infield? > > And I still say that (while keeping it REALISTIC Dave), that damaged cares > have won races! > > We should have additive damage repair in N4 as well. > > Hey, if others can have their 'realistic' pull to the left, then dammit I > want my additive damage repairs :) > > -Larry > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:MJgR7.31676$ER5.343613@rwcrnsc52... > > But not ones that have barrel-rolled down the backstretch. I think

that

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> > is his point. > > dave henrie > > "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:vzgR7.1560$[email hidden]... > > > PLENTY of damaged cars have won Nascar Races. You must not watch them > > all. > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > "meettonysoprano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:58:41 -0700, "John Pancoast" > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the > problem. > > > > >It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the pits > for > > > > >repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the > > wreck. > > > > > > > > > > What you say below has nothing to do with the problem. > > > > > > > > > >-John > > > > > > > > I've never seen a car in NASCAR 4 get wrecked, pit, come out after > > > > repairs and win the race. If they are running the best times

they're > > > > running them 3 laps down so again, how does that theoretical flawruin > > > > your driving experience? > > > > > > > > Secondly, my experience is that after wrecking and repairing a carit > > > > generally is slower, not faster, often the engine will not generate > > > > its full rpms if you've taken a lick to the front; if you've beenhit

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> > > > in the back you lose downforce and have a hard time maintaining > > > > control in the turns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Well, but of course! -Larry "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Er, the end of the race, on the last lap, within sight of the line isone > thing..........and Rusty's car was undriveable after that too, unlike inN4

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> with "realistic" damage. > > -John > > > Larry (The Other Larry) <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0hpR7.2163$[email hidden]... > > Didn't rusty come close at Dega one time? > > > > This was years ago, but if memory serves (and it quite possibly does

not), > > didn't Earnhardt and Rusty tangle on the last lap at Dega one year,where > > Earnhardt won and Rusty came in 2nd while doing end-over-ends in the > > infield? > > > > And I still say that (while keeping it REALISTIC Dave), that damagedcares > > have won races! > > > > We should have additive damage repair in N4 as well. > > > > Hey, if others can have their 'realistic' pull to the left, then dammitI

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> > want my additive damage repairs :) > > > > -Larry > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:MJgR7.31676$ER5.343613@rwcrnsc52... > > > But not ones that have barrel-rolled down the backstretch. I think > that > > > is his point. > > > dave henrie > > > "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:vzgR7.1560$[email hidden]... > > > > PLENTY of damaged cars have won Nascar Races. You must not watch

them

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> > > all. > > > > > > > > -Larry > > > > > > > > "meettonysoprano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:58:41 -0700, "John Pancoast" > > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Lol, swing and a miss<G> Whether you wreck or not isn't the > > problem. > > > > > >It's when others wreck you and/or themselves too, go into the

pits

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> > for > > > > > >repairs, and come out turning the best laps of the race after the > > > wreck. > > > > > > > > > > > > What you say below has nothing to do with the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > >-John > > > > > > > > > > I've never seen a car in NASCAR 4 get wrecked, pit, come out after > > > > > repairs and win the race. If they are running the best times > they're > > > > > running them 3 laps down so again, how does that theoretical flaw > ruin > > > > > your driving experience? > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, my experience is that after wrecking and repairing a car > it > > > > > generally is slower, not faster, often the engine will not

generate

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> > > > > its full rpms if you've taken a lick to the front; if you've been > hit > > > > > in the back you lose downforce and have a hard time maintaining > > > > > control in the turns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:11:55 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> wrote: >In N4, once you take a hit, you get a certain amount of damage repaired, and >that's it. No more. No matter HOW many times you pit it never gets any >better. I agree that aspect could be modelled better. In fact I think the whole damage model could be handled better. I don't disagree with any of the comments that unrealistic results happen in accidents. Many times I have taken blows that would have killed the driver and pitted, then continued the race to finish several laps down. I just don't feel that it completely ruins the simulation. >I'd love to see servers dedicated to >50% minimum races with full realism in effect. Yeah, me too. I raced on a homemade server recently where they had hacked the Daytona track to not use plates. Either as a side effect or as a seperate hack everyone had to pit for gas once and it really adds a missing element to the race. >Maybe would could get Papy to convert one of it's crash-fest servers to 50%, >NON-fixed, full-realism races? I'd presume that others have suggested this to them, but it couldn't hurt to add to the voices of reason.

You mean blows like flying 90 feet into the air, pirroetting along the fence, slidng upside down for 100 feet, getting hit by 9 cars doing 180mph+, and, if you're REALLY lucky, another one will hit you and knock you 200 yards RIGHT into your pit stall. Check dat oil please! :) As for the No-Plate server, that would be the Orion SS Arcade/Hybrid Setup server. I race there all the time. It's a fun step back into the past :) However, you have to be there when the right group of regulars are around. There are 3 or 4 people (I could mention names, but won't) that consistently, every single damned race, from the very first lap go to the low lane and block it for every single mother-lovin' lap of every single race. I am a clean, courteous racer and this brings ME to the brink of madness. I've adopted a new attitude towards blockers. You wanna block an entire damned race? Fine. That's your choice. BUT, you WILL be subjected to my continous bump-drafts until yer ass is out of my way... Last Lap blocking is fair game and I'll leave you alone... You were in the right place at the right time. Though I do have a pretty wicked draft-high manuever for turn 4 that wins a race every now and then, and takes the inside car dude quite by suprise :) -Larry "meettonysoprano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:11:55 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >In N4, once you take a hit, you get a certain amount of damage repaired,and

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> >that's it. No more. No matter HOW many times you pit it never gets any > >better. > > I agree that aspect could be modelled better. In fact I think the > whole damage model could be handled better. I don't disagree with any > of the comments that unrealistic results happen in accidents. Many > times I have taken blows that would have killed the driver and pitted, > then continued the race to finish several laps down. I just don't > feel that it completely ruins the simulation. > > >I'd love to see servers dedicated to > >50% minimum races with full realism in effect. > > Yeah, me too. I raced on a homemade server recently where they had > hacked the Daytona track to not use plates. Either as a side effect > or as a seperate hack everyone had to pit for gas once and it really > adds a missing element to the race. > > > >Maybe would could get Papy to convert one of it's crash-fest servers to

50%, > >NON-fixed, full-realism races? > > I'd presume that others have suggested this to them, but it couldn't > hurt to add to the voices of reason.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:00:31 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> wrote: >As for the No-Plate server, that would be the Orion SS Arcade/Hybrid Setup >server. I race there all the time. It's a fun step back into the past :) Actually this was a different server, the name escapes me right now but I'm thinking the letter "z" was involved. I think it was a hacked server where they'd done something to the friction of the track where I had my strangest wreck. After getting t-boned in turn 4 at Daytona my Chevy flipped up on its side and started sliding along the wall, then slowly drifted down onto the front straight, middle of the track...and just kept sliding, at about 10 mph, on its side, all the way into the tri-oval, with cars zooming past on either side, until I came to a rest on the apron right at the start-finish line. About 2 seconds after my car stopped moving the car that originally hit me and had been involved in unknown activities of his own came rolling in dead on his wheels and tapped the underbelly of my car, knocking me upside down. Very funny stuff. > >However, you have to be there when the right group of regulars are around. >There are 3 or 4 people (I could mention names, but won't) that >consistently, every single damned race, from the very first lap go to the >low lane and block it for every single mother-lovin' lap of every single >race. Get some help and pass 'em on the backstraight, that's what I say.

In article <3RrR7.3681$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>However, you have to be there when the right group of regulars are around. >There are 3 or 4 people (I could mention names, but won't) that >consistently, every single damned race, from the very first lap go to the >low lane and block it for every single mother-lovin' lap of every single >race. > >I am a clean, courteous racer and this brings ME to the brink of madness. > >I've adopted a new attitude towards blockers. You wanna block an entire >damned race? Fine. That's your choice. BUT, you WILL be subjected to my >continous bump-drafts until yer ass is out of my way...

Why, Larry? Would you use this same 'tactic' on a road course if the driver in front was able to hold the preferred line? Why should someone move out of your way, just because you want to go by? That doesn't sound like the act of a clean, courteous racer to me... :( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I remember when N4 had the "Technology Demo" out, one guy had a race set up under Internet Race Finder that had the track adhesion modified to 100% (or whatever max is), and also other stuff. The cars were SO fast, and stuck SO well, that when entering into turn 4 you were so fast and so stuck that if you wiggled the wheel, you would actually go up on two wheels and flip over if you didn't catch it :) It was definetely different :) -Larry "meettonysoprano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:00:31 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >As for the No-Plate server, that would be the Orion SS Arcade/HybridSetup > >server. I race there all the time. It's a fun step back into the past:)

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> > Actually this was a different server, the name escapes me right now > but I'm thinking the letter "z" was involved. > > I think it was a hacked server where they'd done something to the > friction of the track where I had my strangest wreck. After getting > t-boned in turn 4 at Daytona my Chevy flipped up on its side and > started sliding along the wall, then slowly drifted down onto the > front straight, middle of the track...and just kept sliding, at about > 10 mph, on its side, all the way into the tri-oval, with cars zooming > past on either side, until I came to a rest on the apron right at the > start-finish line. About 2 seconds after my car stopped moving the > car that originally hit me and had been involved in unknown activities > of his own came rolling in dead on his wheels and tapped the > underbelly of my car, knocking me upside down. Very funny stuff. > > > > > >However, you have to be there when the right group of regulars are

around.

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> >There are 3 or 4 people (I could mention names, but won't) that > >consistently, every single damned race, from the very first lap go to the > >low lane and block it for every single mother-lovin' lap of every single > >race. > > Get some help and pass 'em on the backstraight, that's what I say. >

Help is hard to find when it's every man for themselves. This server, while fun, does not promote teamwork in this regard :( If I were to pick up someone behind me, then go high to try and go around the blocker, the bastaad behind me would split the two of us and pass us both. Guaranteed. -Larry "meettonysoprano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:00:31 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >As for the No-Plate server, that would be the Orion SS Arcade/HybridSetup > >server. I race there all the time. It's a fun step back into the past:)

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> > Actually this was a different server, the name escapes me right now > but I'm thinking the letter "z" was involved. > > I think it was a hacked server where they'd done something to the > friction of the track where I had my strangest wreck. After getting > t-boned in turn 4 at Daytona my Chevy flipped up on its side and > started sliding along the wall, then slowly drifted down onto the > front straight, middle of the track...and just kept sliding, at about > 10 mph, on its side, all the way into the tri-oval, with cars zooming > past on either side, until I came to a rest on the apron right at the > start-finish line. About 2 seconds after my car stopped moving the > car that originally hit me and had been involved in unknown activities > of his own came rolling in dead on his wheels and tapped the > underbelly of my car, knocking me upside down. Very funny stuff. > > > > > >However, you have to be there when the right group of regulars are

around.

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> >There are 3 or 4 people (I could mention names, but won't) that > >consistently, every single damned race, from the very first lap go to the > >low lane and block it for every single mother-lovin' lap of every single > >race. > > Get some help and pass 'em on the backstraight, that's what I say. >

Eldred, go start your shit with someone else :) It's obvious we are talking about SuperSpeedways on a SPECIFIC Server Set up in a SPECIFIC way for SPECIFIC races. And a few specific bone-heads... -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <3RrR7.3681$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The > Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >However, you have to be there when the right group of regulars arearound.

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> >There are 3 or 4 people (I could mention names, but won't) that > >consistently, every single damned race, from the very first lap go to the > >low lane and block it for every single mother-lovin' lap of every single > >race. > > > >I am a clean, courteous racer and this brings ME to the brink of madness. > > > >I've adopted a new attitude towards blockers. You wanna block an entire > >damned race? Fine. That's your choice. BUT, you WILL be subjected to

my > >continous bump-drafts until yer ass is out of my way... > > Why, Larry? Would you use this same 'tactic' on a road course if thedriver in > front was able to hold the preferred line? Why should someone move out ofyour

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> way, just because you want to go by? That doesn't sound like the act of a > clean, courteous racer to me... :( > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:04:18 GMT, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Help is hard to find when it's every man for themselves. This server, while >fun, does not promote teamwork in this regard :( > >If I were to pick up someone behind me, then go high to try and go around >the blocker, the bastaad behind me would split the two of us and pass us >both. Guaranteed. >

That's what I'd do, but I'd feel bad about it later :-O.

"Larry (The Other Larry)" wrote: > Last Lap blocking is fair game and I'll leave you alone... You were in the > right place at the right time. Though I do have a pretty wicked draft-high > manuever for turn 4 that wins a race every now and then, and takes the > inside car dude quite by suprise :) Yep, I love pulling those kinds of moves. I call it the Bitch Move, cause by passing them on the high line like that you've effectively made them your bitch. :-) -- Fester

In article <wrvR7.6413$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Eldred, go start your shit with someone else :) > >It's obvious we are talking about SuperSpeedways on a SPECIFIC Server Set up >in a SPECIFIC way for SPECIFIC races. > >And a few specific bone-heads... >

Then why do you race with them? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Did the term "FEW SPECIFIC BONEHEADS" not register ? Do you actually read the posts, or are you using a modified Evelyn-Wood Sped Redin method of sorts? :) -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <wrvR7.6413$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The > Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Eldred, go start your shit with someone else :) > > > >It's obvious we are talking about SuperSpeedways on a SPECIFIC Server Setup

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> >in a SPECIFIC way for SPECIFIC races. > > > >And a few specific bone-heads... > > > > Then why do you race with them? > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

LOL! Most people will never discover how to do it because to make it work you actually have to _back off_ from them prior to getting to turn 3. Most can't bring themselves to do that. -Larry "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Larry (The Other Larry)" wrote: > > > Last Lap blocking is fair game and I'll leave you alone... You were inthe > > right place at the right time. Though I do have a pretty wickeddraft-high

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> > manuever for turn 4 that wins a race every now and then, and takes the > > inside car dude quite by suprise :) > > > Yep, I love pulling those kinds of moves. I call it the Bitch Move, > cause by passing them on the high line like that you've effectively made > them your bitch. :-) > > -- > > Fester

In article <9_MR7.10178$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: >Did the term "FEW SPECIFIC BONEHEADS" not register ? > >Do you actually read the posts, or are you using a modified Evelyn-Wood Sped >Redin method of sorts? > Yes, I did read the posts. If those guys put you in such a state of mind to want to be a wrecker, why RUN with them? My question still stands, whether it's 5 guys or just 1. I'm asking you a serious question, and you're being silly... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I give up Eldred... What was a simple post you have fragged beyond belief. Take the post as you will. -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <9_MR7.10178$[email hidden]>, "Larry\(The > Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Did the term "FEW SPECIFIC BONEHEADS" not register ? > > > >Do you actually read the posts, or are you using a modified Evelyn-WoodSped > >Redin method of sorts? > > > > Yes, I did read the posts. If those guys put you in such a state of mindto > want to be a wrecker, why RUN with them? My question still stands,whether > it's 5 guys or just 1. I'm asking you a serious question, and you'rebeing

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> silly... > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

By the way, the term 'wrecker' was never used. Those are your words. -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <9_MR7.10178$[email hidden]>, "Larry\(The > Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Did the term "FEW SPECIFIC BONEHEADS" not register ? > > > >Do you actually read the posts, or are you using a modified Evelyn-WoodSped > >Redin method of sorts? > > > > Yes, I did read the posts. If those guys put you in such a state of mindto > want to be a wrecker, why RUN with them? My question still stands,whether > it's 5 guys or just 1. I'm asking you a serious question, and you'rebeing

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> silly... > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <ioQR7.10245$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>I give up Eldred... > >What was a simple post you have fragged beyond belief. > >Take the post as you will. > >-Larry

Ok, if you're not up to an open discussion, that's fine with me. You're correct, I'm the one who used the term 'wrecker'. But you have to admit that bump-drafting someone who doesn't want it or expect it IS a recipe for crashes, and more hard feelings. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:ioQR7.10245$[email hidden]: > I give up Eldred... > > What was a simple post you have fragged beyond belief. > > Take the post as you will. > Actually, I'm interested too- why do you think it's a problem for someone to take the racing line and stick to it? I'd suggest if that's unreasonable because it's not the kind of thing that's possible in a "real" race, then don't race on hacked servers. cheers John

"Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<%mpR7.2246$[email hidden]>... > In REAL life, Nascar Racers get their banged up cars fixed all the time, and > go on to win races. Each time they pit, their cars get a little bit better. How many races were won in 2001 by someone with a damaged car? For that matter, when was the last race that someone with a damaged car won? > In N4, once you take a hit, you get a certain amount of damage repaired, and > that's it. No more. No matter HOW many times you pit it never gets any > better. This is NOT realistic for a Sim that's as notable as N4 for it's > realism. Um, so it's not realistic when someone gets a fender banged in real life and no matter how much work they do on the car it's never as fast the rest of the race? Nearly every single race in real life at least one fast car gets some minor damage and is knocked off pace. Jeff Gordon, alone, to use a specific example, has had multiple situations this year where minor contact took him out of contention in the race. If anything is unrealistic about Papy's damage model, it's that cars are TOO competitive after having damage repaired and also that damage is generally repaired way too quickly in the pits. I bet real drivers wish they could have their hood, fenders, and rear removed and misfiring engine repaired during a caution without losing a lap. Additionally I can't think of a single instance in the game where contact knocked the toe out of line or otherwise damaged the chassis which is highly unrealistic and an area where GPL excells far and above N4. Can you imagine brushing the wall at Bristol or Dover coming out of 4 and having to fight the steering the rest of the race a'la GPL? God that would rule. Can you name a single specific time in real life that someone's car was damaged and repaired to the point where they were competitive? I can think of some times that people have managed a top-10 or a top-20 after having body damage, but that's about it. The only time I can think of that someone won a race in real life after having an accident was Elliot's "spin and win" at Talladega and in that particular race he didn't have any body/chassis damage, and ended up a lap down regardless (in N4 if you spin at Tally without hitting anything and cautions are enabled there's no way you'll lose a lap unless your front tires are flat and you need to be towed). > Maybe would could get Papy to convert one of it's crash-fest servers to 50%, > NON-fixed, full-realism races? That would rock. They could also have it rotate EVERY original track in the game, instead of being a dedicated ST/SW/SS box. Then again just having a Papy server that ran a roadie now and then other than RoTW would be nice, not to mention the better realism settings. Jason