Re: Nascar 4: What's the big deal? (/me hides for cover)

I personally don't like the way the car drives. It doesn't feel good at all. I prefer the Heat engine. Why is everyone so worried about getting up in the air? That seems stupid to me. How can everyone keep saying improved AI. There is only one car in my demo, did I get the wrong one or are you making this shit up? Maybe you are reading Papy's web site... drinklime <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RJkV5.30078$[email hidden]... > OK. I download the Nascar 4 demo, play it, say "Wow, this is nice." But so > what? How is Nascar 4 significantly better than Nascar Heat? The physicsare > close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will most likely > have better AI, but most of the things that are gonna be better thanNascar > Heat are going to be only because they had all the extra time. So yea, > Nascar 4 is good and all, but it's really not much different than Nascar > Heat. At least I think so...... flame away. > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> I personally don't like the way the car drives. It doesn't feel good at all. > I prefer the Heat engine. Why is everyone so worried about getting up in the > air? That seems stupid to me. How can everyone keep saying improved AI. > There is only one car in my demo, did I get the wrong one or are you making > this shit up? Maybe you are reading Papy's web site... > > drinklime <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:RJkV5.30078$[email hidden]... > > OK. I download the Nascar 4 demo, play it, say "Wow, this is nice." But so > > what? How is Nascar 4 significantly better than Nascar Heat? The physics > are > > close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will most likely > > have better AI, but most of the things that are gonna be better than > Nascar > > Heat are going to be only because they had all the extra time. So yea, > > Nascar 4 is good and all, but it's really not much different than Nascar > > Heat. At least I think so...... flame away. > > > > > > > > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- >

Don't know about the first but I sure agree about the AI thing, LOL.. -- Greetings Johan N [email hidden]

OK. I download the Nascar 4 demo, play it, say "Wow, this is nice." But so what? How is Nascar 4 significantly better than Nascar Heat? The physics are close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will most likely have better AI, but most of the things that are gonna be better than Nascar Heat are going to be only because they had all the extra time. So yea, Nascar 4 is good and all, but it's really not much different than Nascar Heat. At least I think so...... flame away.

2 words........caution, multiplayer......not seperate but all at once. Michael K. Grandy Sr Proud Member of Precision Racing Professional Internet Race Team Member of Nass 2000 Pro Online Series Competitor in LikeReal LAN Tournaments Pro Division "drinklime" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RJkV5.30078$[email hidden]... OK. I download the Nascar 4 demo, play it, say "Wow, this is nice." But so what? How is Nascar 4 significantly better than Nascar Heat? The physics are close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will most likely have better AI, but most of the things that are gonna be better than Nascar Heat are going to be only because they had all the extra time. So yea, Nascar 4 is good and all, but it's really not much different than Nascar Heat. At least I think so...... flame away.

I agree Mike, that was the Heat killer. I believe the physics model is better in N4. I could live with the one in Heat, but N4 feels better to me. Where Heat is still kicking the crap out of N4 is the multi code, we can't rub or drive as close with N4 as we did with Heat. That being said Heat isn't even on my hard drive any longer because I couldn't find anyone to run with anymore. Let's hope for and upgrade in the multi code and the collision detection and we have a true champ. Chad chadliz

"drinklime" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RJkV5.30078$[email hidden]... > OK. I download the Nascar 4 demo, play it, say "Wow, this is nice." But so > what? How is Nascar 4 significantly better than Nascar Heat? The physicsare > close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will most likely > have better AI, but most of the things that are gonna be better thanNascar > Heat are going to be only because they had all the extra time. So yea, > Nascar 4 is good and all, but it's really not much different than Nascar > Heat. At least I think so...... flame away. > >

What he said was N4 would "MOST LIKELY" have better AI. Better than Heats ai that ram you from all rearward angles during yellow flags and pitstops. and better than N3's the famous Papyrus wiggle that would stack up cars behind a wreck is gone.(another tip of the hat to N4's daddy, gpl) That we know from postings here and elsewhere. But is it better in a racing enviroment? That we don't know yet... dave henrie "THop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I personally don't like the way the car drives. It doesn't feel good atall. > I prefer the Heat engine. Why is everyone so worried about getting up inthe > air? That seems stupid to me. How can everyone keep saying improved AI. > There is only one car in my demo, did I get the wrong one or are youmaking > this shit up? Maybe you are reading Papy's web site... > > drinklime <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:RJkV5.30078$[email hidden]... > > OK. I download the Nascar 4 demo, play it, say "Wow, this is nice." Butso > > what? How is Nascar 4 significantly better than Nascar Heat? The physics > are > > close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will mostlikely > > have better AI

I'm not sure about N4 physics. I like Heat better. Maybe the fault is because I have just spent the last couple of months running GPL. I expected better throttle response from N4. I have been running N4 at Michigan. What I have been trying to achieve is a setup that would go loose from the middle of turn 1&2 out. What I expected was a enough oomph to throw the rear end out exiting the turn. It almost feels like Papy dumbed down the physics for N4. Maybe I'm expecting too much. Mike Grandy was kind enough to help me out. I can now turn 183 lap speeds. But, I can't get the car loose from the middle out. Kurt "Johan N" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > I personally don't like the way the car drives. It doesn't feel good atall. > > I prefer the Heat engine. Why is everyone so worried about getting up inthe > > air? That seems stupid to me. How can everyone keep saying improved AI. > > There is only one car in my demo, did I get the wrong one or are youmaking > > this shit up? Maybe you are reading Papy's web site... > > > > drinklime <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:RJkV5.30078$[email hidden]... > > > OK. I download the Nascar 4 demo, play it, say "Wow, this is nice."But so > > > what? How is Nascar 4 significantly better than Nascar Heat? Thephysics > > are > > > close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will mostlikely > > > have better AI, but most of the things that are gonna be better than > > Nascar > > > Heat are going to be only because they had all the extra time. So yea, > > > Nascar 4 is good and all, but it's really not much different thanNascar

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> > > Heat. At least I think so...... flame away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- > > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > > -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- > > > Don't know about the first but I sure agree about the AI thing, LOL.. > > -- > Greetings > > Johan N > > [email hidden] >

Two words for you Mike.... A Greed LOL Dave "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IWkV5.318454$[email hidden]... 2 words........caution, multiplayer......not seperate but all at once. Michael K. Grandy Sr Proud Member of Precision Racing Professional Internet Race Team Member of Nass 2000 Pro Online Series Competitor in LikeReal LAN Tournaments Pro Division "drinklime" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RJkV5.30078$[email hidden]... OK. I download the Nascar 4 demo, play it, say "Wow, this is nice." But so what? How is Nascar 4 significantly better than Nascar Heat? The physics are close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will most likely have better AI, but most of the things that are gonna be better than Nascar Heat are going to be only because they had all the extra time. So yea, Nascar 4 is good and all, but it's really not much different than Nascar Heat. At least I think so...... flame away.

It's modeling a 3500 lb car... there should be a difference between N4 and GPL. N4's physics are more accurate than Heat imho. And Heat is WAY too easy to drive. By the way, raise your rear sway bar. Dave "Kurt" <karter42@(no spam)earthlink.net> wrote in message news:rnAV5.32558$[email hidden]... > I'm not sure about N4 physics. I like Heat better. Maybe the fault is > because I have just spent the last couple of months running GPL. Iexpected > better throttle response from N4. I have been running N4 at Michigan.What > I have been trying to achieve is a setup that would go loose from themiddle > of turn 1&2 out. What I expected was a enough oomph to throw the rear end > out exiting the turn. It almost feels like Papy dumbed down the physicsfor > N4. Maybe I'm expecting too much. > Mike Grandy was kind enough to help me out. I can now turn 183 lapspeeds.

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> But, I can't get the car loose from the middle out. > > Kurt > > > "Johan N" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > > says... > > > I personally don't like the way the car drives. It doesn't feel good

at > all. > > > I prefer the Heat engine. Why is everyone so worried about getting upin > the > > > air? That seems stupid to me. How can everyone keep saying improvedAI.

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> > > There is only one car in my demo, did I get the wrong one or are you > making > > > this shit up? Maybe you are reading Papy's web site... > > > > > > drinklime <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:RJkV5.30078$[email hidden]... > > > > OK. I download the Nascar 4 demo, play it, say "Wow, this is nice." > But so > > > > what? How is Nascar 4 significantly better than Nascar Heat? The > physics > > > are > > > > close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will most > likely > > > > have better AI, but most of the things that are gonna be better than > > > Nascar > > > > Heat are going to be only because they had all the extra time. So

yea,

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> > > > Nascar 4 is good and all, but it's really not much different than > Nascar > > > > Heat. At least I think so...... flame away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- > > > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > > > -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- > > > > > Don't know about the first but I sure agree about the AI thing, LOL.. > > > > -- > > Greetings > > > > Johan N > > > > [email hidden] > > > > >

That's strange. I found Heat in hardcore mode tougher to drive than N4, "right out of the box". I just chalked it up to better default setups in N4. Once I get my car setup in Heat, it's not so bad because I know the limits. A road course would be nice to feel the full potential of the N4 physics. Jason. David Boothe wrote:

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> > It's modeling a 3500 lb car... there should be a difference between N4 and > GPL. N4's physics are more accurate than Heat imho. And Heat is WAY too easy > to drive. > > By the way, raise your rear sway bar. > > Dave > > "Kurt" <karter42@(no spam)earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:rnAV5.32558$[email hidden]... > > I'm not sure about N4 physics. I like Heat better. Maybe the fault is > > because I have just spent the last couple of months running GPL.

-- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N3, GPL, Fun Run Sims) http://www.racersdomain.com - Race hosting. (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

Kurt wrote:

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> > I'm not sure about N4 physics. I like Heat better. Maybe the fault is > because I have just spent the last couple of months running GPL. I expected > better throttle response from N4. I have been running N4 at Michigan. What > I have been trying to achieve is a setup that would go loose from the middle > of turn 1&2 out. What I expected was a enough oomph to throw the rear end > out exiting the turn. It almost feels like Papy dumbed down the physics for > N4. Maybe I'm expecting too much. > Mike Grandy was kind enough to help me out. I can now turn 183 lap speeds. > But, I can't get the car loose from the middle out. > > Kurt

You can do what you are saying but you really need to loosen up the car. But if you get it just right in turn 1 and 2 you'll spin in 3 and 4. turn 1 and 2 is a decreasing radius turn with some big bumps and turn 3 and 4 is increasing radius and with the way the banking is you'll easily spin there. I've now run a 187.4mph with the race engine with a light fuel load and a 1:86.9mph with race engine and full of fuel. I'm sure you'll be steering out of the corner a lot more with the gas at smaller tracks. At Michigan you pretty much steer the car into the corner with the gas. Also it is MUCH easier to steer with the throttle in GPL as you have a larger margin of error with the big slip angles and less torque. A road course with these stock cars will be a real handfull. Also with a good fast loose setup it doesn't take much to spin, just touch the apron the wrong way and you'll eat the wall. The people saying they can drive on the apron have a setup that is super tight. -- Solo1 C-Modified (CASC-OR/BARC) http://www.barc-oc.com http://www.casc.on.ca

On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:18:34 GMT, "David Boothe" <[email hidden]> thus spoke: >It's modeling a 3500 lb car... there should be a difference between N4 and >GPL. N4's physics are more accurate than Heat imho. And Heat is WAY too easy >to drive. Why should a car be hard to drive? Hard does not equal more realistic, IMO.

Do not trust this man's definition of "tight" and "loose". <g> Jan. =---- Alan Orton wrote...

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> Also with a good fast loose setup it doesn't take much to spin, just > touch the apron the wrong way and you'll eat the wall. The people saying > they can drive on the apron have a setup that is super tight. > > > -- > Solo1 C-Modified (CASC-OR/BARC) > http://www.barc-oc.com > http://www.casc.on.ca

I agree 100%.... and Nascar Heat is not as realistic imo. I'm only comparing demos to demos. I took the Heat demo, put it in "hardcore" mode and I couldn't spin the car if I tried. I loosened it up BIG time. It feels like it's got tires three feet wide on the back. N4 isn't hard to drive either. As a matter of fact, its one of the easiest driving sims I've tried next to GPL. You have such a good sense of what the car is doing, you can really push the car to its limit and feel the apex of the turns much better. I was knocking out 23 second laps at Dover Downs within 15 minutes of sitting down with N4 last night. You can feel the slightest changes in the setup and the car responds like a car. Nascar Heat imho, responds more like a 40 foot Grady White fishing boat. Dave "Amp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:18:34 GMT, "David Boothe" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > >It's modeling a 3500 lb car... there should be a difference between N4and > >GPL. N4's physics are more accurate than Heat imho. And Heat is WAY tooeasy > >to drive. > > Why should a car be hard to drive? Hard does not equal more realistic, > IMO. >

On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 00:56:41 GMT, "David Boothe" <[email hidden]> thus spoke:

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>I agree 100%.... and Nascar Heat is not as realistic imo. I'm only comparing >demos to demos. I took the Heat demo, put it in "hardcore" mode and I >couldn't spin the car if I tried. I loosened it up BIG time. It feels like >it's got tires three feet wide on the back. N4 isn't hard to drive either. >As a matter of fact, its one of the easiest driving sims I've tried next to >GPL. You have such a good sense of what the car is doing, you can really >push the car to its limit and feel the apex of the turns much better. I was >knocking out 23 second laps at Dover Downs within 15 minutes of sitting down >with N4 last night. You can feel the slightest changes in the setup and the >car responds like a car. Nascar Heat imho, responds more like a 40 foot >Grady White fishing boat. > >Dave

I think your comments on NH are a bit harsh. I made my comment because I actually prefer the feel of NH. See post from Steve Blankenship down below in another thread. He feels the same way. I don't know which is more realistic, I just don't believe the cars pull that hard to the left as they do in N4 and prefer the more subtle pull of NH.

On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 04:30:41 GMT, "drinklime" <[email hidden]> wrote: >close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will most likely >have better AI, but most of the things that are gonna be better than Nascar >Heat are going to be only because they had all the extra time. That IS the point. They took the "extra time" to do it right. Andy Please use [email hidden] for all email replies

"Amp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 00:56:41 GMT, "David Boothe" > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > I just don't believe the cars pull that hard to the > left as they do in N4 and prefer the more subtle pull of NH. They do depending on the setup, I've driven one. Dave

lol Jan Verschueren wrote:

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> > Do not trust this man's definition of "tight" and "loose". <g> > > Jan. > =---- > Alan Orton wrote... > > Also with a good fast loose setup it doesn't take much to spin, just > > touch the apron the wrong way and you'll eat the wall. The people saying > > they can drive on the apron have a setup that is super tight. > > > > > > -- > > Solo1 C-Modified (CASC-OR/BARC) > > http://www.barc-oc.com > > http://www.casc.on.ca

-- Solo1 C-Modified (CASC-OR/BARC) 76 Trans-Am 600+hp http://www.barc-oc.com http://www.casc.on.ca

"rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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> >> I just don't believe the cars pull that hard to the > >> left as they do in N4 and prefer the more subtle pull of NH. > > > >They do depending on the setup, I've driven one. > > They pull hard to the left on a long track where > stagger is minimal?

Yes depending on castor, camber, weight displacement and of course banking of the track. You can take a regular street car down a road that is turtle backed (it slopes down to both sides from the middle) and the car will pull strongly to whatever side you're driving on. Stagger is only one factor to the pull. -- Take care, Dave Boothe ***************************************************** Edward Jones Investments #37 Ford Taurus Proud member of Ground Zero Motorsports The Pro Series http://www.theproseries.com OSCAR http://www.awtech.net/oscar/

David Boothe wrote:

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> > Yes depending on castor, camber, weight displacement and of course banking > of the track. You can take a regular street car down a road that is turtle > backed (it slopes down to both sides from the middle) and the car will pull > strongly to whatever side you're driving on. Stagger is only one factor to > the pull. > -- > Take care, > Dave Boothe > ***************************************************** > Edward Jones Investments #37 Ford Taurus > Proud member of Ground Zero Motorsports > The Pro Series http://www.theproseries.com > OSCAR http://www.awtech.net/oscar/

The banking part is only true if the car is understeering, which a street car usually is. A perfectly neutral car should demand zero steering input on the straight banking, and an oversteering one actually a steering input somewhat down the banking. I do believe that in N4 this is mostly due to first stagger and then camber effects. -Gregor

David Boothe wrote:

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> > "Amp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 00:56:41 GMT, "David Boothe" > > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > > I just don't believe the cars pull that hard to the > > left as they do in N4 and prefer the more subtle pull of NH. > > They do depending on the setup, I've driven one.

What are you doing here, don't you have something to sell to someone ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

"Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3A27B8CE.59C6FDBF@uni-

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> The banking part is only true if the car is understeering, which a > street car usually is. A perfectly neutral car should demand zero > steering input on the straight banking, and an oversteering one actually > a steering input somewhat down the banking. > > I do believe that in N4 this is mostly due to first stagger and then > camber effects.

I have yet to try and eliminate the left pull because I want the left pull so I'm not sure which changes will create the most difference in N4. You are right regarding an absolutely neutral car when it is up to speed. Even a neutral car not up to speed will pull on a banked track. I do believe I mentioned weight displacement as well. My point is... there are a lot of factors that should make the car pull to the left and the cars do pull to the left and pull hard on ovals. Stagger has probably the most influence, proceeded by weight displacement, castor settings, camber settings and banking (probably in that order). I doubt the default setup for the road courses will have much pull at all. -- Take care, Dave Boothe ***************************************************** Edward Jones Investments #37 Ford Taurus Proud member of Ground Zero Motorsports The Pro Series http://www.theproseries.com OSCAR http://www.awtech.net/oscar/

Goy, my favorite foreigner. How goes it? And yes.... The US Stock Market has been on sale for the last couple of days.... busy busy busy. I do have to correct you in saying that in recent days, I've been buying for my clients... haven't been selling much of anything (but I get paid in both scenarios) <g> How's the old stomping ground? Still a political forum or back to actually discussing sim racing now that the N4 demo is on the proverbial "street"? Dave "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > David Boothe wrote: > > > > "Amp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Fri, 01 Dec 2000 00:56:41 GMT, "David Boothe" > > > <[email hidden]> thus spoke: > > > > > > I just don't believe the cars pull that hard to the > > > left as they do in N4 and prefer the more subtle pull of NH. > > > > They do depending on the setup, I've driven one. > > What are you doing here, don't you have something to sell to someone ? > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * > "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com >

"David Boothe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XcSV5.23006$[email hidden]... > > "Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3A27B8CE.59C6FDBF@uni- > > The banking part is only true if the car is understeering, which a{snips...} > > > > I do believe that in N4 this is mostly due to first stagger and then > > camber effects. > > I have yet to try and eliminate the left pull because I want the left pull{more snips} I find it interesting that we have been like a chorus here, all singing one voice about the need for realism in our sims. Yet when one basic tenant of that song is revealed...we have suddenly a bunch off key complaints. Yes for those who grew up on Papy sims based on the ICR2/N2/3 engine, the dramatic nature of the car's movement down the track even on a straight is befuddling. But that is a basic part of realism. Find any tape from the Indy 500. A track which has straights with a small amount of banking. When a car is unchallenged and has full use of the track, watch how the driver lets the car drift down towards the inside of the track after exiting a turn. This is caused by the factors mentioned above about stagger and camber etc. Now take that drift from a relatively flat track and apply it to the more severe Dover banking.(Just imagine how tough Bristol will be!) We need to accept when 'reality' intrudes into our sim world, and we need to embrace ANY concept that improves our sim-racing.(so get back in the cockpit all you tailgunners!) dave henrie

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:foSV5.104194$[email hidden]... > Yes for those who grew up on Papy sims based on the ICR2/N2/3 engine,the > dramatic nature of the car's movement down the track even on a straight is > befuddling. But that is a basic part of realism. Kudos to Papy for doing a hell of a job!!! I think its awesome. Would be better on a vid card with more muscle than the V3 <g> Dave

then make all of your setups symetrical like gpls....and you wont go quickly through the corners.... pez Joe62 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "THop" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I personally don't like the way the car drives. It doesn't feel good atall.

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> > I have to agree. I can only assume this is more of a "technology test" > to work out compatibility bugs, and that the physics engine is not > fully tuned. I mean, the GPL 1967 F1 cars are more stable than the car > in N4. That doesn't seem right. > > Joe McGinn > _____________________ > Radical Entertainment

"THop" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I personally don't like the way the car drives. It doesn't feel good at all. I have to agree. I can only assume this is more of a "technology test" to work out compatibility bugs, and that the physics engine is not fully tuned. I mean, the GPL 1967 F1 cars are more stable than the car in N4. That doesn't seem right. Joe McGinn _____________________ Radical Entertainment

David Boothe wrote: > > Goy, my favorite foreigner. How goes it? And yes.... The US Stock Market has > been on sale for the last couple of days.... busy busy busy. I do have to > correct you in saying that in recent days, I've been buying for my > clients... haven't been selling much of anything (but I get paid in both > scenarios) <g> Life's a bitch eh ? :-) Well, the drop in the IT market may have been to my benefit actually, because the governmental Telecom company over here, Telenor, is heading for the stock market and the IPO deadline has just past, and I just learned that the IPO has been dropped from the 50-68 nkr range to the 42-46 range, so unless the market totally collapses, I really ought to cash in on it as I signed up for the IPO a couple of day ago expecting it to be in the upper range, and I've just gotten a discount, let's just say that the next couple of weeks will be somewhat exciting ..... > How's the old stomping ground? Still a political forum or back to actually > discussing sim racing now that the N4 demo is on the proverbial "street"? Oh you know, it's now gone from the "The Demos are stealing the election, no they're not, it's the Reps that won't let all votes count" song to the "N4 rules, no it doesn't, NHeat is so much better"..... I don't know which I prefer, but it sure is entertaining, throw in the odd personal attacks and it's business as usual :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > David Boothe wrote: > Oh you know, it's now gone from the "The Demos are stealing the > election, no they're not, it's the Reps that won't let all votes count" > song to the "N4 rules, no it doesn't, NHeat is so much better"..... > > I don't know which I prefer, but it sure is entertaining, throw in the > odd personal attacks and it's business as usual :-)

LOL. Hey, about that IPO. Most IPO's peak in a day. If you know what day the IPO takes place, I would take the day off and watch it like a hawk. Let it shoot up (sometimes they don't) and then sell it when its peaking. Many IPO's will take a HUGE surge as soon as they hit the market and then drop drastically. Once they drop, they usually stay stagnant for a long time... or grow at a more normal rate. The sharp rise comes from everyone buying the stock as soon as it hits, then when everyone starts to cash in, it drops just as fast. If you want to maximize the opportunity, take the day off and watch it all day so you can unload when its peaking and make some money. You can always buy it back later at the lower price and hold it for long term growth. I don't believe in timing the market..... I only play this game with IPO's because 90% of the time they come right back down..... and in many cases fold before they ever get that high again. So can we expect to see you on some ovals with the release of N4? <g> Take care, Dave

David Boothe wrote: > > So can we expect to see you on some ovals with the release of N4? <g> On some, yes, I've always enjoyed Martinsville, working my way up from the back was always fun, but I have a feeling that I'll spend most of my time on road courses :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Nascar 4 has REAL Multiplayer capabilities. -Larry "Reggie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:s3tV5.4763$[email hidden]... > > "drinklime" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:RJkV5.30078$[email hidden]... > > OK. I download the Nascar 4 demo, play it, say "Wow, this is nice." Butso > > what? How is Nascar 4 significantly better than Nascar Heat? The physics > are > > close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will mostlikely

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> > have better AI, but most of the things that are gonna be better than > Nascar > > Heat are going to be only because they had all the extra time. So yea, > > Nascar 4 is good and all, but it's really not much different than Nascar > > Heat. At least I think so...... flame away. > > > > > >

Kicking up the right rear spring will do this nicely for you. -Larry "Kurt" <karter42@(no spam)earthlink.net> wrote in message news:rnAV5.32558$[email hidden]... > I'm not sure about N4 physics. I like Heat better. Maybe the fault is > because I have just spent the last couple of months running GPL. Iexpected > better throttle response from N4. I have been running N4 at Michigan.What > I have been trying to achieve is a setup that would go loose from themiddle > of turn 1&2 out. What I expected was a enough oomph to throw the rear end > out exiting the turn. It almost feels like Papy dumbed down the physicsfor > N4. Maybe I'm expecting too much. > Mike Grandy was kind enough to help me out. I can now turn 183 lapspeeds.

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> But, I can't get the car loose from the middle out. > > Kurt > > > "Johan N" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > > says... > > > I personally don't like the way the car drives. It doesn't feel good

at > all. > > > I prefer the Heat engine. Why is everyone so worried about getting upin > the > > > air? That seems stupid to me. How can everyone keep saying improvedAI.

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> > > There is only one car in my demo, did I get the wrong one or are you > making > > > this shit up? Maybe you are reading Papy's web site... > > > > > > drinklime <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:RJkV5.30078$[email hidden]... > > > > OK. I download the Nascar 4 demo, play it, say "Wow, this is nice." > But so > > > > what? How is Nascar 4 significantly better than Nascar Heat? The > physics > > > are > > > > close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will most > likely > > > > have better AI, but most of the things that are gonna be better than > > > Nascar > > > > Heat are going to be only because they had all the extra time. So

yea,

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> > > > Nascar 4 is good and all, but it's really not much different than > Nascar > > > > Heat. At least I think so...... flame away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- > > > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > > > -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- > > > > > Don't know about the first but I sure agree about the AI thing, LOL.. > > > > -- > > Greetings > > > > Johan N > > > > [email hidden] > > > >

A question. Why would anyone _want_ the left pull? -Larry "David Boothe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XcSV5.23006$[email hidden]...

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> > "Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3A27B8CE.59C6FDBF@uni- > > The banking part is only true if the car is understeering, which a > > street car usually is. A perfectly neutral car should demand zero > > steering input on the straight banking, and an oversteering one actually > > a steering input somewhat down the banking. > > > > I do believe that in N4 this is mostly due to first stagger and then > > camber effects. > > I have yet to try and eliminate the left pull because I want the left pull > so I'm not sure which changes will create the most difference in N4. You

are

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> right regarding an absolutely neutral car when it is up to speed. Even a > neutral car not up to speed will pull on a banked track. I do believe I > mentioned weight displacement as well. My point is... there are a lot of > factors that should make the car pull to the left and the cars do pull to > the left and pull hard on ovals. Stagger has probably the most influence, > proceeded by weight displacement, castor settings, camber settings and > banking (probably in that order). > > I doubt the default setup for the road courses will have much pull at all. > -- > Take care, > Dave Boothe > ***************************************************** > Edward Jones Investments #37 Ford Taurus > Proud member of Ground Zero Motorsports > The Pro Series http://www.theproseries.com > OSCAR http://www.awtech.net/oscar/ > > >

Dave, We all want realism. But it's a simple fact of life that not _everything_ real transfers into a Sim well. There are things that cannot be controlled. Different controllers, different systems, etc... For some, especially those without FF wheels, the left-pull is going to be a considerable problem due to the return-to-center springs/bungies. IMHO, and this is NOT an invite for a flame war, I personally do not believe the pull-to-the-left 'realism' transfers well to a SIM. It is annoying and it is going to wreak havoc in online-gaming. At the very least, Papyrus should put in a Trim tab, like the folks at MGI did for Heat when people expressed their opinions and concerns. From what I've read in a recent interview, though, they aren't giving this much thought. Too bad :( -Larry "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:foSV5.104194$[email hidden]...

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> > "David Boothe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:XcSV5.23006$[email hidden]... > > > > "Gregor Veble" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:3A27B8CE.59C6FDBF@uni- > > > The banking part is only true if the car is understeering, which a > {snips...} > > > > > > I do believe that in N4 this is mostly due to first stagger and then > > > camber effects. > > > > I have yet to try and eliminate the left pull because I want the left

pull

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> {more snips} > I find it interesting that we have been like a chorus here, all singing > one voice > about the need for realism in our sims. Yet when one basic tenant of that > song > is revealed...we have suddenly a bunch off key complaints. > Yes for those who grew up on Papy sims based on the ICR2/N2/3 engine,

the > dramatic nature of the car's movement down the track even on a straight is > befuddling. But that is a basic part of realism. Find any tape from the > Indy 500. A track which has straights with a small amount of banking.When

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> a car is unchallenged and has full use of the track, watch how the driver > lets the car drift down towards the inside of the track after exiting a > turn. This is caused by the factors mentioned above about stagger and > camber etc. Now take that > drift from a relatively flat track and apply it to the more severe Dover > banking.(Just imagine how tough Bristol will be!) > We need to accept when 'reality' intrudes into our sim world, and we

need > to > embrace ANY concept that improves our sim-racing.(so get back in thecockpit > all you tailgunners!) > dave henrie >

Yeah, including things like - ohh - yellow flags :) -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends ICQ# 74084566 "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TnOc6.60114$[email hidden]... > Nascar 4 has REAL Multiplayer capabilities. > > -Larry > > "Reggie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:s3tV5.4763$[email hidden]... > > > > "drinklime" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:RJkV5.30078$[email hidden]... > > > OK. I download the Nascar 4 demo, play it, say "Wow, this is nice." But > so > > > what? How is Nascar 4 significantly better than Nascar Heat? The physics > > are > > > close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will most > likely > > > have better AI, but most of the things that are gonna be better than > > Nascar > > > Heat are going to be only because they had all the extra time. So yea, > > > Nascar 4 is good and all, but it's really not much different than Nascar > > > Heat. At least I think so...... flame away. > > > > > > > > > > > >

>At the very least, Papyrus should put in a Trim tab, like the folks at MGI >did for Heat when people expressed their opinions and concerns. I'm so damn tired of hearing idiots say put this in or put that in because it's in Heat. You want to race Heat then race Heat. Let Papy put out a sim that's NOT Heat. I can't understand people who want every game to be just like someone elses' game. I've raced Heat and couldn't stand it. I'll take N4 over Heat any day. But you will never hear me say make Heat more like N4. Dave Casey Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

I think N4 has better graphics and physics just my opinion. The graphics to me in Heat look cartoonish. > > > what? How is Nascar 4 significantly better than Nascar Heat? Thephysics > > are > > > close enough, and Heat has better graphics. Now, yea, N4 will

Agreed. -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends ICQ# 74084566 "Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:951cis$mb3$[email hidden]... > I think N4 has better graphics and physics just my > opinion. The graphics to me in Heat look > cartoonish. >

Funny, some of the reasons Papy delayed N4 were from what they saw in Heat :) Dave Casey <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UAQc6.2178$[email hidden]... > >At the very least, Papyrus should put in a Trim tab, like the folks atMGI > >did for Heat when people expressed their opinions and concerns. > > I'm so damn tired of hearing idiots say put this in or put that in because > it's in Heat. You want to race Heat then race Heat. Let Papy put out asim > that's NOT Heat. I can't understand people who want every game to be just > like someone elses' game. I've raced Heat and couldn't stand it. I'lltake > N4 over Heat any day. But you will never hear me say make Heat more likeN4.

Thats nonsense , what Papy wanted Nascar Racing 4 to be an Arcade game like Heat? Thats BOLD. Back your statement with fact.. > Funny, some of the reasons Papy delayed N4 were from what they saw in Heat >

>"Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote >You mean like this? Please do not post binary files in a non-binary newsgroup. Read the r.a.s. FAQ -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

>"Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote > Funny, some of the reasons Papy delayed N4 were from what they saw in Heat I don't recall somebody from Papyrus saying such thing. Anyway we all know that N4 is far beyond what Papyrus is aiming for compared to NHeat. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

> >"Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Funny, some of the reasons Papy delayed N4 were from what they saw in >>Heat > > I don't recall somebody from Papyrus saying such thing. Anyway we allknow > that N4 is far beyond what Papyrus is aiming for compared to NHeat. > Well here is my Xfiles conspiracy theory. N4 was originally scheduled to be released last year. ( I forget if the original date was in the summer but most likely Xmas 2k) If the date was Summer '00 then I believe that date was bogus. Why? Nascar Heat did NOT want to go head to head with N4. N4 is a known product from a known stable. Even if Heat were superior, it would still lose in the consumer's mind as a "me too" product. So the Hasbro producers saw the listed release date of N4 and, for business reasons, knew they had to be the first to the market. The result, as we've seen with many other titles lately(Ultima 9, F12k) was the release of an unfinished product. Hasbro blinked and rushed Heat out the door. Sierra chuckled to themselves and THEN announced the REAL release date.(which, if you think back to last year's Daytona race, should have been obvious) All the above is merely MY speculation and is NOT supported by any facts, only my interpretation of how events have unfolded. dave henrie

Hmmm................. Very interesting theory :) > only my interpretation of how events have unfolded. > dave henrie >

Not a horrible theory except Papy hasn't released a product that's made significant revenue since N2 and to miss Christmas had to hurt. Plus giving the market to Heat and timing a Daytona release just doesn't make any sense to me. I think they just got behind for whatever reason and had to slip. From what I understand the demo was from a date that would have been pretty close to the Gold date for a Christmas release and you can tell they were still pretty far off from shipping if that's the case. The truth is they are just really, really bad at getting anything out on time. Don't forget this was suppose to ship as N3. Tom "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kGid6.332703$[email hidden]...

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> > >"Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > Funny, some of the reasons Papy delayed N4 were from what they saw in >> > Heat > > > > I don't recall somebody from Papyrus saying such thing. Anyway we all > know > > that N4 is far beyond what Papyrus is aiming for compared to NHeat. > > > Well here is my Xfiles conspiracy theory. > N4 was originally scheduled to be released last year. ( I forget if the > original date was in the summer but most likely Xmas 2k) If the date was > Summer '00 then I believe that date was bogus. Why? Nascar Heat did NOT > want to go > head to head with N4. N4 is a known product from a known stable. Even if > Heat were superior, it would still lose in the consumer's mind as a "me

too" > product. So the Hasbro producers saw the listed release date of N4 and,for

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> business reasons, knew they had to be the first to the market. > The result, as we've seen with many other titles lately(Ultima 9, F12k) > was the release of an unfinished product. Hasbro blinked and rushed Heat > out the door. Sierra chuckled to themselves and THEN announced the REAL > release date.(which, if you think back to last year's Daytona race, should > have been obvious) > All the above is merely MY speculation and is NOT supported by any

facts, > only my interpretation of how events have unfolded. > dave henrie >

Hopefully they took advantage of the extra time to do some thorough bug cleansing. I think they can expect to make some real money on this project, but it won't help if they get a lot of bad press for problems that they really did have time to find and fix. In article <955sku$g06$[email hidden]>, "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Not a horrible theory except Papy hasn't released a product that'smade > significant revenue since N2 and to miss Christmas had to hurt. Plusgiving > the market to Heat and timing a Daytona release just doesn't make anysense > to me. > > I think they just got behind for whatever reason and had to slip. Fromwhat > I understand the demo was from a date that would have been prettyclose to > the Gold date for a Christmas release and you can tell they were still > pretty far off from shipping if that's the case. > > The truth is they are just really, really bad at getting anything outon > time. Don't forget this was suppose to ship as N3. > > Tom > -- Email: [email hidden] Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

In article <955sku$g06$[email hidden]>, "Tom Oliver" <[email hidden]> writes: >Not a horrible theory except Papy hasn't released a product that's made >significant revenue since N2 and to miss Christmas had to hurt. Plus giving >the market to Heat and timing a Daytona release just doesn't make any sense >to me. Not really a problem. They probably know that there is a HUGE number of gamers who wil buy the program anyway. It doesn't matter if it's Christmas, Easter, or July 4th...<g> Remember, they had/have people reading these groups, too. They *know* it will sell well. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <kGid6.332703$[email hidden]>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes: > The result, as we've seen with many other titles lately(Ultima 9, F12k) >was the release of an unfinished product. Hasbro blinked and rushed Heat >out the door. Sierra chuckled to themselves and THEN announced the REAL >release date.(which, if you think back to last year's Daytona race, should >have been obvious) What did last year's race show? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Please get a life Frank :) ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bTad6.168223$[email hidden]... > >"Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote > >You mean like this? > > > Please do not post binary files in a non-binary newsgroup. Read ther.a.s. > FAQ

.(which, if you think back to last year's Daytona race, should > >have been obvious) > > What did last year's race show? > > Eldred The release of the demo with Daytona included. That tipped us off to several things...a) they FINALLY got Daytona, b) they learned from EA that the START of a season is the best time to release a sports title. dave henrie