Papyrus Interview at Operation Sports!

Over the E3 weekend, there have been many posts about NASCAR Racing 3 and 2000. Well, here at Operation Sports, we want to set the record straight. NASCAR 3 is a DIFFERENT product than NASCAR 2000. We actually saw NASCAR Racing 2000 and NASCAR Legends. We went to Papyrus and got the inside scoop! Check out our feature article right here: http://www.operationsports.com/reviewvault/articlesfull.asp?featureid=26 -- Dan Clarke Managing Editor Operation Sports http://www.operationsports.com

Same here! Things do sound better now. Things I liked about the article: - overhaul of the N2 engine - better graphics -- non cartoon smoke! (that moved in the wind) - better sound - 4 wide AI! (please be better at Talladega! everywhere else for that matter) - Seperate (and redone) crew cheif/spotter (cool!) - 43 cars, cool! Other things that would make this NASCAR fan happy! :) - Realistic qualifying/provisional system, make qualifying really count! (not the automatic "provisional" currently in NR1999, it could be toggeled of course) I think it would be cool if the real pressure that NASCAR teams/drivers go through to qualify could be simulated. - Having more than 43 cars trying to qualify. (you see it every week these days!) - Pit stalls determined by qualifying order - If you can't tell I think the qualifying procedure should be revamped! - A career mode Later, John

AGREED!! So I was right (so far), in thinking that they were just not able to get GPL-based N3 running at playable speeds for the majority of current hardware, so are doing the enhanced N99 engine for our benefit, to have a good, playable, better looking, better driving and smooth NASCAR game this year. Nice to see it was the playability issues that caused them to do this as I suspected, rather than suits at Sierra screwing 'em over. While Sierra might try to rush this out for a buck, I think they also may be smart enough to let Papy do their thing, since the NASCAR series has to be a huge golden goose for them, and some suit may be smart enough to know not to kill it (amazing as that is). 1024x768 on my V3 should be pretty sweet, and it'll make me REAL glad I got my SB Live for 4-speakers (while N2K doesn't do EAX it does do Directsound 3D so I should be OK ) -- Ken's Sig 2.01 "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony." Go #43 and #44! volksy (at) geocities (dot) com volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com >On Mon, 17 May 1999 18:23:05 -0400, >>Over the E3 weekend, there have been many posts about NASCAR Racing 3 and >>2000. Well, here at Operation Sports, we want to set the record straight. >>NASCAR 3 is a DIFFERENT product than NASCAR 2000. We actually saw NASCAR >>Racing 2000 and NASCAR Legends. We went to Papyrus and got the inside >>scoop! >>Check out our feature article right here: >>http://www.operationsports.com/reviewvault/articlesfull.asp?featureid=26 >NR2000 sounds good to me!!! >-- >// rrevved posts from mindspring dot com

Now thats some good news, kind of. JM

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> Over the E3 weekend, there have been many posts about NASCAR Racing 3 and > 2000. Well, here at Operation Sports, we want to set the record straight. > NASCAR 3 is a DIFFERENT product than NASCAR 2000. We actually saw NASCAR > Racing 2000 and NASCAR Legends. We went to Papyrus and got the inside > scoop! > Check out our feature article right here: > http://www.operationsports.com/reviewvault/articlesfull.asp?featureid=26 > -- > Dan Clarke > Managing Editor > Operation Sports > http://www.operationsports.com

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> Over the E3 weekend, there have been many posts about NASCAR Racing 3 and > 2000. Well, here at Operation Sports, we want to set the record straight. > NASCAR 3 is a DIFFERENT product than NASCAR 2000. We actually saw NASCAR > Racing 2000 and NASCAR Legends. We went to Papyrus and got the inside > scoop! > Check out our feature article right here: > http://www.operationsports.com/reviewvault/articlesfull.asp?featureid=26

Just read it. That did it... now I want it. Sounds like NASCAR 2000 will be THE game that finally makes me upgrade again. Sheez... I'm so easy. Andre "Gotta Have It" Ming

Would love to see what Dave Matson's description of "typical home PC" is.. :) > Now thats some good news, kind of. > JM

>NR2000 sounds good to me!!! I have to admit it sounds better than I feared. New graphics engine, better physics, better sound, force-feedback ... yeah I'll pay for that, I'd be lying if I said otherwise. Joe

From the article: Hmmph! Sounds like an insult to the serious gamer to me. Like we're supposed to be ***SO*** e***d about FF and 3D sound at the expense of a realistic simulation. No thanks, Papy. You can be certain that N2K and NL will *not* be on my purchase list.

>From the article: >>However, given the limited commercial success of Grand Prix Legends, its clear that we would be doing a disservice to our core NASCAR? Racing fans if we released NASCAR? Racing 3 with the same degree of difficulty and steep learning curve. Very well put! Looks like GPL will be the only sim on my hard drive for a long time to come ... Hena

Perhaps they should combine the two engines? Put the Nascar2 upgrade and the GPL engine in the same game and tag the first as arcade and the second as realistic. :) > From the article: > >However, given the limited commercial success of Grand Prix Legends, it's clear that we would be doing a disservice to our core NASCAR? Racing fans if we released NASCAR? Racing 3 with the same degree of difficulty and steep learning curve.

On Tue, 18 May 1999 08:32:19 -0500, "Chris Schletter" >Perhaps they should combine the two engines? Put the Nascar2 upgrade and >the GPL engine in the same game and tag the first as arcade and the second >as realistic. :) I'd love it. Then the kiddies could play their games and we could race our sims...

The thing I'm most glad to see is the 3D sound. I'd really love to hear <G> that this was in the GPL 1.1 patch because the blind spot (lack of peripheral vision) in GPL is a real problem and this would go a long way to easing the pain. Probably outside the scope of a mere patch though unfortunately :((

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> From the article: > >However, given the limited commercial success of Grand Prix Legends, its clear that we would be doing a disservice to our core NASCAR? Racing fans if we released NASCAR? Racing 3 with the same degree of difficulty and steep learning curve. > Hmmph! Sounds like an insult to the serious gamer to me. Like we're > supposed to be ***SO*** e***d about FF and 3D sound at the expense > of a realistic simulation. No thanks, Papy. You can be certain that > N2K and NL will *not* be on my purchase list.

I have to say that in my opinion there is no blind spot in GPL, just peoples inability or reluctance to use the look left / right buttons. Yeah I have heard all the arguments about how people get disoriented using them but it is just another skill to be learned, much the same as learning to drive using manual gears of taking all the helps off one by one. Once the habbit is formed, it becomes second nature and there really should be no excuse to drive into the side of cars. I'm not gaving a go at you personally Byron, just expressing an opinion :-) Mark

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> The thing I'm most glad to see is the 3D sound. I'd really love to > hear <G> that this was in the GPL 1.1 patch because the blind spot (lack > of peripheral vision) in GPL is a real problem and this would go a long > way to easing the pain. Probably outside the scope of a mere patch > though unfortunately :(( > > From the article: > > >However, given the limited commercial success of Grand Prix Legends,

it's clear that we would be doing a disservice to our core NASCAR? Racing fans if we released NASCAR? Racing 3 with the same degree of difficulty and steep learning curve.

>I have to say that in my opinion there is no blind spot in GPL, just peoples >inability or reluctance to use the look left / right buttons. >Yeah I have heard all the arguments about how people get disoriented using >them but it is just another skill to be learned, much the same as learning >to drive using manual gears of taking all the helps off one by one. Once the >habbit is formed, it becomes second nature and there really should be no >excuse to drive into the side of cars. I'm not gaving a go at you personally >Byron, just expressing an opinion :-) I'm sorry Mark, but i have to dissagree with you bud, I am a regular user of my look left/right buttons on my MS FF wheel, yet on more than one occasion on the long straight towards Curve Grande, i have checked my mirrors, looked left, checked again, and then when i'm *absolutely sure* things are clear ( as i don't want to take myself or the competition out) i have moved over onto the racing line and bang!! i drove straight into a car that was sitting in a blind spot.... Honest..... where maybe.... just maybe....positional audio, or 3D sound would have helped me realise a car was there. I just feel i had to reply to your statement, even though i know your reputation as an experienced racer within VROC using GPL, i feel you are mistaken on this point. I personally believe, that "positional audio" would be a fantastic addition to this already near perfect sim..... What with the upcoming patch giving FF and Jack Rambo's GPaL, if someone threw in positional audio, I would shit myself with joy! Regards Davey_Willo

I'm using my "left right look" more and more often. I haven't used it enough yet to determine if there is a blind spot or not. So, If you're in such a position again, it might help others if you were to save the replay. and take a snap shot of just before you move over. That way we could get a good idea of where that blind spot might be. Just a though. Mike Barlow -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://www.pivot.net/~marknjess/ror.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

I really can not agree with this at all. For some of us, the look left and right buttons aren't always accessible during a race, especially not at critical times, such as when somebody is trying to overtake you. For example, my steering wheel has only four programmable buttons. Two are used up for the gearstick, the third for the clutch and the fourth one for the 'raise arm' feature. Even if I had the ability to use Hotkeys and even if I had far more buttons, there would still be good reason for accidently hitting somebody from the side. Say, for example, you're going around a long left hander and somebody behind you tries to overtake you on the right. Your car begins to drift to the right slightly, but because the person behind you is attempting to overtake you, you bang into him. Who's fault is it that an accident happened? On the real roads, it would be the overtaker, because the person coming from behind is _always_ in fault, even if it was caused by a mistake of the person in front. Also, when using the left and right keys on a big open track, like Spa, there are many places which are easy to use them. However, using them at Monaco, for example, is very difficult indeed, in comparison, of course. Griffin, the Slayer

On Fri, 21 May 1999 00:06:09 +0100, "Mark Seery" >Of course one thing you >might not have considered is that enemy to us all.....Warping. No amout of >stimulus can account for a car being where it should not be all of a sudden. I had my fair share of this on Vroc last night. It really can be quite disconcerning. Griffin, the Slayer

Ok Davy I'll concede this one. I used a poor selection of words there mate. There may be a slight blind spot but in my experience this should rarely cause problems. If you are so close to a car as to be in striking range, you should be able to hear his engine in very close proximity. Given this, I personally, would be very cautious about moving over too rapidly. Sure I'll admit that positional audio would help but in my experience, using the look left /right function will save the day in 99% of cases. There will always be accidents but that is just the nature of the beast. Of course one thing you might not have considered is that enemy to us all.....Warping. No amout of stimulus can account for a car being where it should not be all of a sudden. reputation as an experienced racer within VROC using GPL. I have a reputation. Thanks for the compliment. Did you ever hear the story about the tortoise and the hare? Guess how I win most of my races <G>. Regards Mark

Stick the clutch and raise arm feature on the keys man. The clutch is only needed on the startline if at all and nobody ever sees arms raised anyway If you drift into another car, as a result of not being able to control your line or using excessive amounts of road when someone is along side you it is your fault...... Cut to M. Schumacher 1997. " Sorry Bernie but that championship should be mine. Mr Villeneuve must have been wrong because he was trying to overtake me. Cut to Adelaide 1994 ...... By being able to see where the other car is, you could (should) be driving in such a manner as to prevent collision. When a guy is alongside you, you cannot just drive as though you have a god given right to use all the road even if it means taking someone out. Common sense prevails in such instances. Only if he takes you out from behind. Not if you are side by side and you drive into him. Are you suggesting that you would rather go off the road and then apportioning blame to someone else for trying to overtake you? If this is the case (and tell me if I am wrong), You aint going to win too often my friend. Agreed. It aint always easy. But then GPL was never meant to be easy. It's very easy to crash and take half the field out by not learning a very basic skill like using your eyes to their full advantage. Regards Mark

> >, my steering wheel has only four programmable > >buttons. Two are used up for the gearstick, the third for the clutch > >and the fourth one for the 'raise arm' feature. > Stick the clutch and raise arm feature on the keys man. The clutch is only > needed on the startline if at all and nobody ever sees arms raised anyway I tried to do this but GPL wouldn't let me assign the clutch to the keyboard, and it also wouldn't let me leave it unassigned. I'm therefore stuck with having to use Z and X to look left/right! However, my TSW analogue clutch kit will be arriving soon, so then I'll have the jump on you guys!!!

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> > >, my steering wheel has only four programmable > > >buttons. Two are used up for the gearstick, the third for the clutch > > >and the fourth one for the 'raise arm' feature. > > Stick the clutch and raise arm feature on the keys man. The clutch is only > > needed on the startline if at all and nobody ever sees arms raised anyway > I tried to do this but GPL wouldn't let me assign the clutch to the > keyboard, and it also wouldn't let me leave it unassigned.

You can assign the clutch to any key on the keypad.

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> > > >, my steering wheel has only four programmable > > > >buttons. Two are used up for the gearstick, the third for the clutch > > > >and the fourth one for the 'raise arm' feature. > > > Stick the clutch and raise arm feature on the keys man. The clutch is only > > > needed on the startline if at all and nobody ever sees arms raised anyway > > I tried to do this but GPL wouldn't let me assign the clutch to the > > keyboard, and it also wouldn't let me leave it unassigned. > You can assign the clutch to any key on the keypad.

By "keypad", do you mean "keyboard"? If you do, then I'm mystified, as I tried repeatedly to assign the clutch to a keyboard key, by clicking on the clutch entry and pressing a key on the keyboard, but each time it ignored the keypress and the clutch remained unassigned. I'll try it again later!

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> > > > >, my steering wheel has only four programmable > > > > >buttons. Two are used up for the gearstick, the third for the clutch > > > > >and the fourth one for the 'raise arm' feature. > > > > Stick the clutch and raise arm feature on the keys man. The clutch is only > > > > needed on the startline if at all and nobody ever sees arms raised anyway > > > I tried to do this but GPL wouldn't let me assign the clutch to the > > > keyboard, and it also wouldn't let me leave it unassigned. > > You can assign the clutch to any key on the keypad. > By "keypad", do you mean "keyboard"?

No, by keypad I mean that area on the right side of the keyboard where the numbers are (where NumLock is).

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>On Fri, 21 May 1999 00:06:09 +0100, "Mark Seery" >>Of course one thing you >>might not have considered is that enemy to us all.....Warping. No amout of >>stimulus can account for a car being where it should not be all of a sudden. >I had my fair share of this on Vroc last night. >It really can be quite disconcerning.

Yeah...another think I dislike is the fact you can see only 1 car behind. I did a Spa race last night, hosted by Eric Cote, and qualified (with a stunning 3:39) in the midfield. While the row I qualified on, 3 cars wide, stormed to Eau Rouge, I looked left. (I was on the right side) I had 1 feet advantage to the Lotus on the left of me, and the gap between us was wide enough to go somewhat to the left. KABOOM. It appears that there was a car (an Eagle) between us, his nose 2 feet behind my nose. Since you only can see 1 car behind you, I didn't see this car at all. So, not only warping is the enemy here, the only 1 car behind visible, is as well. Remco

> >, my steering wheel has only four programmable > >buttons. Two are used up for the gearstick, the third for the clutch > >and the fourth one for the 'raise arm' feature. > Stick the clutch and raise arm feature on the keys man. The clutch is only > needed on the startline if at all and nobody ever sees arms raised anyway I have been in situations where using a clutch would have helped. These situations are few and far between, but still there. I do agree that the clutch feature should be stuck on the keyboard though, just because of the infrequency of use. As far as the arms.. I use them quite often when I can for see an accident, So, I'll raise my arm and let the passing driver pass quickly and safely. I have also seen many drivers raise there arms too because of the same situations and/or because I'm faster. In any case, I have turned a couple graphics off and turned the drivers arms graphics on to help with my safety on the track. so, I'd have to disagree with you with "nobody ever sees arms raised anyway" statement. To further Marks statement... You should have seen that the overtaking driver was in your mirrors at one time and was a bit faster just before he disappeared. In such an occasion, I'd lay odds that that driver was considering to overtake me and is probably someplace near by, Maybe to my right. A quick "right" look would help determine if he is in fact there. If I still can't see him, Then he is in my (if there is one) blind spot and I will hold my lower line and decrease my speed to be able to stay low till I can see where he is. To add to this, I'm using the "look left and right" feature more often. Because of this, Places like Mexico are becoming easier and easier to use the "look left and right". so, It's also my opinion that the "look" feature is another skill to learn. -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://www.pivot.net/~marknjess/ror.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

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> >On Fri, 21 May 1999 00:06:09 +0100, "Mark Seery" > >>Of course one thing you > >>might not have considered is that enemy to us all.....Warping. No amout of > >>stimulus can account for a car being where it should not be all of a sudden. > >I had my fair share of this on Vroc last night. > >It really can be quite disconcerning. > Yeah...another think I dislike is the fact you can see only 1 car > behind. I did a Spa race last night, hosted by Eric Cote, and > qualified (with a stunning 3:39) in the midfield. While the row I > qualified on, 3 cars wide, stormed to Eau Rouge, I looked left. (I was > on the right side) > I had 1 feet advantage to the Lotus on the left of me, and the gap > between us was wide enough to go somewhat to the left. KABOOM. It > appears that there was a car (an Eagle) between us, his nose 2 feet > behind my nose. Since you only can see 1 car behind you, I didn't see > this car at all. > So, not only warping is the enemy here, the only 1 car behind visible, > is as well. > Remco

I think it has been mentioned before but not sure... I can see two cars behind me. This is when I'm hosting with my cable modem. I haven't been in a situation with two cars behind me while as a client, so I can't comment on that. As I said, I think it's been mentioned before that you can see more behind you with the faster modems such as a cable. -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Member of R.O.R. 1999 http://www.pivot.net/~marknjess/ror.html ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music mikeba.vcf < 1K Download

> By "keypad", do you mean "keyboard"? > If you do, then I'm mystified, as I tried repeatedly to assign the > clutch to a keyboard key, by clicking on the clutch entry and pressing a > key on the keyboard, but each time it ignored the keypress and the > clutch remained unassigned. Neil, apparently for some functions you have to use the numeric keypad portion of your keyboard (the keys grouped together on the right on most keyboards). I use the large "0/Insert" key for the clutch and it works fine. I also use the SPACEBAR (which I believe is the default) for the arm raise. This frees up the two buttons on my T2 for "look left" and "look right". Dave Ewing

> I think it has been mentioned before but not sure... I can see two cars >behind me. This is when I'm hosting with my cable modem. I haven't been in a >situation with two cars behind me while as a client, so I can't comment on that. > As I said, I think it's been mentioned before that you can see more behind you >with the faster modems such as a cable. With a packet size of 84, a client can see 1 car behind, 4 cars ahead. If you're in the lead, you see the second car, and the 4 last cars. So, the problem only occurs when there are more then 6 drivers. The host always can see all the cars. By modifying the packetsize, in the CORE.INI, you can alter the amount of visible cars. For an explanation of this, see Bart Westra's - excellent - site. http://people.a2000.nl/bcwes/gplol.htm Remco

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> > By "keypad", do you mean "keyboard"? > > If you do, then I'm mystified, as I tried repeatedly to assign the > > clutch to a keyboard key, by clicking on the clutch entry and pressing a > > key on the keyboard, but each time it ignored the keypress and the > > clutch remained unassigned. > Neil, apparently for some functions you have to use the numeric keypad portion of > your keyboard (the keys grouped together on the right on most keyboards). I use the > large "0/Insert" key for the clutch and it works fine. I also use the SPACEBAR > (which I believe is the default) for the arm raise. This frees up the two buttons > on my T2 for "look left" and "look right".

Geez, and I just paid $60 for the analogue clutch! Oh well, at least it'll speed up my starts, so I can crash into other people who aren't looking in their mirrors!

Neil. You need to assign a key on the number pad. The main keyboard won't work Mark >> >, my steering wheel has only four programmable >> >buttons. Two are used up for the gearstick, the third for the clutch >> >and the fourth one for the 'raise arm' feature. >> Stick the clutch and raise arm feature on the keys man. The clutch is only

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>> needed on the startline if at all and nobody ever sees arms raised anyway >I tried to do this but GPL wouldn't let me assign the clutch to the >keyboard, and it also wouldn't let me leave it unassigned. >I'm therefore stuck with having to use Z and X to look left/right! >However, my TSW analogue clutch kit will be arriving soon, so then I'll >have the jump on you guys!!!

> A couple of things here. Many, like me, have no extra buttons on the > wheel to do this and even if I did I wouldn't like it. That's quite an open mind you have there BF :) I've just lately started using the L/R buttons, and it works great! There is nothing wrong with knowing where the car beside you is really at. -- Pat Dotson IMPACT Motorsports http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

A couple of things here. Many, like me, have no extra buttons on the wheel to do this and even if I did I wouldn't like it. I also remember a Papy official stating that the look left/right feature was never really intended for racing situations, but rather to look up and down the track when re-entering after an off.

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> I have to say that in my opinion there is no blind spot in GPL, just peoples > inability or reluctance to use the look left / right buttons. > Yeah I have heard all the arguments about how people get disoriented using > them but it is just another skill to be learned, much the same as learning > to drive using manual gears of taking all the helps off one by one. Once the > habbit is formed, it becomes second nature and there really should be no > excuse to drive into the side of cars. I'm not gaving a go at you personally > Byron, just expressing an opinion :-) > Mark > > The thing I'm most glad to see is the 3D sound. I'd really love to > > hear <G> that this was in the GPL 1.1 patch because the blind spot (lack > > of peripheral vision) in GPL is a real problem and this would go a long > > way to easing the pain. Probably outside the scope of a mere patch > > though unfortunately :(( > > > From the article: > > > >However, given the limited commercial success of Grand Prix Legends, > it's clear that we would be doing a disservice to our core NASCAR? Racing > fans if we released NASCAR? Racing 3 with the same degree of difficulty and > steep learning curve. > > > Hmmph! Sounds like an insult to the serious gamer to me. Like we're > > > supposed to be ***SO*** e***d about FF and 3D sound at the expense > > > of a realistic simulation. No thanks, Papy. You can be certain that > > > N2K and NL will *not* be on my purchase list.

Only one can in the mirrors you mean, or in the look-left/right views? In the mirrors, I am sure I have seen more than one car at a time. Griffin, the Slayer

On Fri, 21 May 1999 09:38:34 +0100, "Mark Seery" >If you drift into another car, as a result of not being able to control your >line or using excessive amounts of road when someone is along side you it is >your fault...... No it isn't - at least not with 1967 GPL cars. These days drifting doesn't happen in F1, as the cars can stick to the track very well. Old GPL cars however always drift. It's almost impossible to reach a good speed and follow the racing line on the ground. Drifting (when controlled properly) can also help shave a few seconds off your time. I'd say that it's more important for the driver who is doing the overtaking to make sure he's doing so in a place which is safe, such as on a long straight, where there's little chance of a collision due to drifting. Now that IS a good idea! I'll do that for my next race. :-) Griffin, the Slayer

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>> >, my steering wheel has only four programmable >> >buttons. Two are used up for the gearstick, the third for the clutch >> >and the fourth one for the 'raise arm' feature. >> Stick the clutch and raise arm feature on the keys man. The clutch is only >> needed on the startline if at all and nobody ever sees arms raised anyway >I tried to do this but GPL wouldn't let me assign the clutch to the >keyboard, and it also wouldn't let me leave it unassigned. >I'm therefore stuck with having to use Z and X to look left/right! >However, my TSW analogue clutch kit will be arriving soon, so then I'll >have the jump on you guys!!!

Assign the DELETE (num pad) key to the clutch - that'll work! Griffin, the Slayer

On Fri, 21 May 1999 10:54:48 -0400, Michael Barlow

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>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >--------------116504131BA8E5F7DB309F22 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> >, my steering wheel has only four programmable >> >buttons. Two are used up for the gearstick, the third for the clutch >> >and the fourth one for the 'raise arm' feature. >> Stick the clutch and raise arm feature on the keys man. The clutch is only >> needed on the startline if at all and nobody ever sees arms raised anyway > I have been in situations where using a clutch would have helped. These >situations are few and far between, but still there. I do agree that the clutch >feature should be stuck on the keyboard though, just because of the infrequency >of use. As far as the arms.. I use them quite often when I can for see an >accident, So, I'll raise my arm and let the passing driver pass quickly and >safely. I have also seen many drivers raise there arms too because of the same >situations and/or because I'm faster. In any case, I have turned a couple >graphics off and turned the drivers arms graphics on to help with my safety on >the track. so, I'd have to disagree with you with "nobody ever sees arms raised >anyway" statement. >> >Even if I had the ability to use Hotkeys and even if I had far more >> >buttons, there would still be good reason for accidently hitting >> >somebody from the side. Say, for example, you're going around a long >> >left hander and somebody behind you tries to overtake you on the >> >right. Your car begins to drift to the right slightly, but because the >> >person behind you is attempting to overtake you, you bang into him. >> >Who's fault is it that an accident happened? >> If you drift into another car, as a result of not being able to control your >> line or using excessive amounts of road when someone is along side you it is >> your fault...... > To further Marks statement... You should have seen that the overtaking >driver was in your mirrors at one time and was a bit faster just before he >disappeared. In such an occasion, I'd lay odds that that driver was considering >to overtake me and is probably someplace near by, Maybe to my right. A quick >"right" look would help determine if he is in fact there. If I still can't see >him, Then he is in my (if there is one) blind spot and I will hold my lower line >and decrease my speed to be able to stay low till I can see where he is. >> Cut to M. Schumacher 1997. " Sorry Bernie but that championship should be >> mine. Mr Villeneuve must have been wrong because he was trying to overtake >> me. Cut to Adelaide 1994 ...... >> By being able to see where the other car is, you could (should) be driving >> in such a manner as to prevent collision. When a guy is alongside you, you >> cannot just drive as though you have a god given right to use all the road >> even if it means taking someone out. Common sense prevails in such >> instances. >> >On the real roads, it would be the overtaker, because the person coming >> from behind is >> >_always_ in fault, even if it was caused by a mistake of the person in >> >front. >> Only if he takes you out from behind. Not if you are side by side and you >> drive into him. Are you suggesting that you would rather go off the road and >> then apportioning blame to someone else for trying to overtake you? If this >> is the case (and tell me if I am wrong), You aint going to win too often my >> friend. >> >Also, when using the left and right keys on a big open track, like >> >Spa, there are many places which are easy to use them. However, using >> >them at Monaco, for example, is very difficult indeed, in comparison, >> >of course. >> Agreed. It aint always easy. But then GPL was never meant to be easy. It's >> very easy to crash and take half the field out by not learning a very basic >> skill like using your eyes to their full advantage. > To add to this, I'm using the "look left and right" feature more often. >Because of this, Places like Mexico are becoming easier and easier to use the >"look left and right". so, It's also my opinion that the "look" feature is >another skill to learn. >> Regards >> Mark >> >Griffin, the Slayer >-- >========================================= >Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? >========================================= >Member of R.O.R. 1999 >http://www.pivot.net/~marknjess/ror.html >========================================= >Racing online with the help of...... >Race Communications Association >http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html >Holodyne Engineering >Mystic Music >--------------116504131BA8E5F7DB309F22 >Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; > name="mikeba.vcf" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Description: Card for Michael Barlow >Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="mikeba.vcf" >begin:vcard >n:Barlow;Mike >x-mozilla-html:TRUE >url:http://home.eznet.net/~mikeba >org:Barlow Racing >adr:;;;;New York;;USA >version:2.1 >title:CEO >note:Made the top 25% in the points race in the 1998 NROS >fn:MikeBa >end:vcard >--------------116504131BA8E5F7DB309F22--

I too tend to use the clutch quite a bit. For example, if you spin the car on the track, the best thing to do is to release the accelerator, pop the clutch in and steer in a counter direction. The car will right itself in a nice, 'Days of Thunder' style. :) Griffin, the Slayer

% I think it has been mentioned before but not sure... I can see two cars % behind me. This is when I'm hosting with my cable modem. I haven't been in a % situation with two cars behind me while as a client, so I can't comment on that. % As I said, I think it's been mentioned before that you can see more behind you % with the faster modems such as a cable. I think the number of cars is controlled by the packet size (core.ini 3/84). As host you should have all the information and you should be able to see all the cars in your mirrors. Though the number of cars seen as host maybe tied to upload/download capacity and therefore tied to the speed of the connection to the Internet. For more information on this check out http://people.A2000.nl/bcwes/gplol.htm -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Just a note re: drifting and modern F1 cars. While watching this years Monaco race I heard Martin Brundle explaining to Murray Walker about the importance of balance in a F1 car. He stated that the drivers tried to have their cars set up so that both ends slide at the same time and that this was done routinely. Sounds like a drift to me though certainly not to the degree that the older ones drifted David Erb Amen to that --DE

Hi Griffin, Your debate is quite well reasoned but I will respond to your reply again mate. speed and follow the racing line on the ground. This is tue enough When you are running an optimum lap...IE when you are running alone with reasonable gaps to to other drivers around you. However, when you are defending a position or going for one, this all goes out the window. Sure you have to drive as quick as is safe to do so but when you are scrapping for position, the prime consideration is staying on the black stuff. Of course your lap times will be compromised as a result. Take a look at any real life race. You will find cars running in gaggles to be much slower than the guy running a few seconds ahead of them for this very same reason. Defensive lines are always slower but SAFER. your time. Quite right but be prepared to sacrifice some speed when in a situation where deliberate drifting will take yourself and possibly half the field off the road. When you drift a car you are on the limit of adhesion and you are totally commited to that one line. It is nigh on impossible to modify that line quickly and react to the actions of other cars alongside you. I'd say that it's more important for the driver who is doing the a long straight, where there's little chance of a collision due to drifting. The whole racing technique of racing and overtaking is about being better on the brakes into a corner in 99% of cases. You will rarely see me blowing away a Lotus from within my Cooper***pit on a long straight with my 4-10 mph speed disadvantage. I don't half scare and suprise a few with my ability to live with them in the braking zones though. Again I quote real life. It has been many years since I have seen cars blasting past each other on straights in GP's. (I talk about competitve cars here, not cars lapping cars). I think the last time this would have been possible would have been in the mid 80's when turbo boost buttons were momentarily turned up for the move.. Nice to have agreed on something hehe :-) Regards Mark

David Erb skrev i meldingen ... All race cars drift! Even if you have huge wings! The only place you don't see it to the same extent is in oval racing, but they also drift. If you are running without drifting, you are not on the limit, or going fast...! And true, as David says, it is not to the same extent as it used to be, unless you're in a class running road-legal ***:) All best, Matt

Griffin, the Slayer kirjoitti viestiss? Yeah and I don't have a single button in my wheel... This is why I don't use clutch either, only steering + gears up-down in gearstick (Nascar Pro with 4 broken buttons). I try to avoid collision, but sometimes I just _can't_ see others.

I find it easier to turn my head IRL than try to find my keyboard to see what's in the other side of the ***...

> I have been in situations where using a clutch would have helped. These Yeah, when you spin and look the wrong way... At least to me arms are useless, because my graphic details are decreased to get good fps and so I can't even see your arms and I bet that I'm not the only one. So some others have those P4 966 machines too... I assume&agree that "someone" will see them, but: 4 hands and 2 wheels is not very realistic IMO. SOoooo.......Does only joystick drivers raise arms?

Well me too Pat. But the idea of looking anywhere but straight ahead, particularly approaching a corner (which is where one most wants to know exactly where those in close proximity are) just seems insane to me. What I'd prefer above all is at least an option for ICR2 type mirrors.

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> > A couple of things here. Many, like me, have no extra buttons on the > > wheel to do this and even if I did I wouldn't like it. > That's quite an open mind you have there BF :) > I've just lately started using the L/R buttons, > and it works great! There is nothing wrong with > knowing where the car beside you is really at. > -- > Pat Dotson > IMPACT Motorsports > http://www.impactmotorsports.com/pd.html

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> Just a note re: drifting and modern F1 cars. While watching this years > Monaco race I heard Martin Brundle explaining to Murray Walker about the > importance of balance in a F1 car. He stated that the drivers tried to have > their cars set up so that both ends slide at the same time and that this was > done routinely. Sounds like a drift to me though certainly not to the degree > that the older ones drifted > David Erb

The big difference is, that you do no 'power-steer' through the long corners as you they did in '67. Of course you like a 'neutral' car - and if you cannot get it, drivers have a clear preference - mine is oversteering. Just take a look athe GPL-Intro and compare it with pictures from today ... the car exiting the 'Karussell' at the Ring ... TAL -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A-8223 Stubenberg, Vockenberg 108; Styria - Austria - Europe ----------------------------------------------------------------------

> On Fri, 21 May 1999 11:07:50 -0400 Michael Barlow > % I think it has been mentioned before but not sure... I can see two cars > % behind me. This is when I'm hosting with my cable modem. I haven't been in a > % situation with two cars behind me while as a client, so I can't comment on that. > % As I said, I think it's been mentioned before that you can see more behind you

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> % with the faster modems such as a cable. > I think the number of cars is controlled by the packet size (core.ini > 3/84). As host you should have all the information and you should be > able to see all the cars in your mirrors. Though the number of cars > seen as host maybe tied to upload/download capacity and therefore tied > to the speed of the connection to the Internet. > For more information on this check out > [link lost in import]

The number of cars that a client can see is indeed controlled by the packet size (84 => 4 ahead and 1 behind). When the car behind you is passed by another car, there will be 2 cars visible behind for about one second. The display of the second car behind is based purely on prediction by the client in that case, as the server stops sending the second car's data as soon as it is passed. The server always sees all cars. I'll make that explicit when I have time to redo the page. Bart Westra

The only time I ever look to the side is mid-way down a longish straight. I'm still getting used to it, but so far I like it. Just a quick glance to the side lets you know where the car is and doesn't interrupet your control of the car. > Well me too Pat. But the idea of looking anywhere but straight ahead, > particularly approaching a corner (which is where one most wants to know > exactly where those in close proximity are) just seems insane to me. > What I'd prefer above all is at least an option for ICR2 type mirrors.

OT: They are still on the air? This year we have a new moderating team for our Malaysian F1-broadcasting. Stupid idiots, no knowledge about the subject and talking s...t the whole time. PLEASE GIVE US BACK MURRAY WALKER AND MARTIN BRUNDLE!!! Jens - very frustrated >Just a note re: drifting and modern F1 cars. While watching this years >Monaco race I heard Martin Brundle explaining to Murray Walker about the >importance of balance in a F1 car. He stated that the drivers tried to have --------------------------------------------- Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

I find it very easy to get disoriented I glance around, and they don't usually give me the information I want. Whether it's realistic or not I'd much prefer to be able to map the F10 arcade view swap to a button on my wheel. It might be just as confusing for my easily perplexed senses, but at least it'd give me all the information I want, so the trade-off would be worthwhile. Reaching out for F10 just isn't an option in the heat of the moment though, and I don't have any non-standard buttons on my wheel. Andrew McP