Papyrus Attempt To Eliminate Wreckers on N4 Online.

Guys... In keeping with my self-imposed promise to keep my r.a.s. posts short, let me say: "Way to go Papyrus!" I applaud this attempt to clean up the online servers for N4....even if it only involves the Papyrus Servers at this point. Its a step in the right direction. I actually didn't think Papyrus would try to address this problem......and I consider this move to be indicative of a possible "new era of thinking" at Papyrus! If it is....that's going to be great for the online racing community. Regards, Tom Pabst

"new era of thinking" is a little unfair. 3 recet patches, (2 of them for a 3 year old game) shows great support to our community. I'm not suprised Papy are cleaning up N4 multiplayer. They're a great company - WE LOVE YOU PAPY!! Tom Pabst wrote:

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> Guys... > > In keeping with my self-imposed promise to keep my r.a.s. posts short, let > me say: > > "Way to go Papyrus!" > > I applaud this attempt to clean up the online servers for N4....even if it > only involves the Papyrus Servers at this point. Its a step in the right > direction. I actually didn't think Papyrus would try to address this > problem......and I consider this move to be indicative of a possible "new > era of thinking" at Papyrus! If it is....that's going to be great for the > online racing community. > > Regards, > > Tom Pabst

-- Rob Swindells ///////////// Caps Lock

Rob... You have miss-understood what I meant by "new era of thinking." I wasn't knocking Papyrus in any way. Especially, I was not referring to anything related to their "support of the online racing community." They have always supported online racing in a substantial way (in my opinion). What I was referring to.....was "how" they've support online racing in the past....and "what" they were willing to do. Except for the NROS events, Papyrus has not been willing to act as an "online racing police force"....and probably rightfully so. They have done lots of things to support **policing** in online league racing ....with code in their sims.....and code in their online server programming. But, they've generally shied away from policing general pick up racing......leaving that primarily to those individuals running dedicated race servers.......or to the "its a jungle out there" mentality of some of us long-term online drivers. They have also shied away from anything that involved some "risk taking"...especially where licensing or legal issues could arise (again, rightfully so). This move to attempt to do something about the online wreckers.....has some risk in it. First, there's risk that it will be **ineffective**....and there's some legal risk with regard to their ability to block someone who has legally purchased their "game" from online racing (in any capacity). Apparently, someone at Papyrus "did their homework" and they have found enough of a legal foundation in their EULA to at least...give this a trial. I think most of the old-timers around here will agree that this represents "new thinking" at Papyrus.....and that is what I was referring to in my original post. I do agree with you however, after re-reading my statement....I can see how it looks like I might be making a facetious statement.....and that I was actually knocking Papyrus. My apologies....I didn't intend it to read that way. Regards, Tom Pabst

Hmmm? First a patch for a 3yr/old sim & now this? I wonder what other sim programmers or Mfgs would do all this? Very Interesting! Keep it going Papy... :) -Thom_j. "Tom Pabst" wrote:

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| Guys... | | In keeping with my self-imposed promise to keep my r.a.s. posts short, let | me say: | | "Way to go Papyrus!" | | I applaud this attempt to clean up the online servers for N4....even if it | only involves the Papyrus Servers at this point. Its a step in the right | direction. I actually didn't think Papyrus would try to address this | problem......and I consider this move to be indicative of a possible "new | era of thinking" at Papyrus! If it is....that's going to be great for the | online racing community. | | Regards, | | Tom Pabst |

--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

Hi Tom, you forgot your self-imposed promise quickly... ;-) Achim "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OIgd7.53423$[email hidden]...

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> Rob... > > You have miss-understood what I meant by "new era of thinking." > > I wasn't knocking Papyrus in any way. Especially, I was not referring to > anything related to their "support of the online racing community." They > have always supported online racing in a substantial way (in my opinion). > What I was referring to.....was "how" they've support online racing in the > past....and "what" they were willing to do. Except for the NROS events, > Papyrus has not been willing to act as an "online racing police > force"....and probably rightfully so. They have done lots of things to > support **policing** in online league racing ....with code in their > sims.....and code in their online server programming. But, they've > generally shied away from policing general pick up racing......leaving

that

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> primarily to those individuals running dedicated race servers.......or to > the "its a jungle out there" mentality of some of us long-term online > drivers. They have also shied away from anything that involved some "risk > taking"...especially where licensing or legal issues could arise (again, > rightfully so). > > This move to attempt to do something about the online wreckers.....has

some > risk in it. First, there's risk that it will be **ineffective**....and > there's some legal risk with regard to their ability to block someone who > has legally purchased their "game" from online racing (in any capacity). > Apparently, someone at Papyrus "did their homework" and they have found > enough of a legal foundation in their EULA to at least...give this atrial. > I think most of the old-timers around here will agree that this represents > "new thinking" at Papyrus.....and that is what I was referring to in my > original post. > > I do agree with you however, after re-reading my statement....I can seehow > it looks like I might be making a facetious statement.....and that I was > actually knocking Papyrus. My apologies....I didn't intend it to readthat

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> way. > > Regards, > > Tom Pabst > >

I wonder if "Barnes & Noble" could use Tom? :) "Joachim Trensz" wrote: | Hi Tom, | | you forgot your self-imposed promise quickly... ;-) | | Achim<snippped for obvious band space.phew :)..> --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

Although it's showing great effort to atleast try and get rid of the problems - it's a bit cumbersome imho. I've reported 2,3 "violators" already - but it usually take 10-15 minutes to get anyone to tell me the correct time - in EDT that is! I wish there were some other, easier way to report these violators. BTW, could anyone tell me how many hours EDT (NOT EST) is behind GMT or CET? -- ed_

6 hours behind CEST (Central European Summer Time) at the moment, or 4 hours behind GMT (Greenwich Mean Time, not subject to Daylight Saving Time) and 5 hours behind BST (British Summer Time). The gap to mainland Europe is nearly always 6 hours, however the change to daylight saving time and back is different by about a week. Leading to all sorts of confusion in Transatlantic leagues. See also: http://www.worldtimezone.com/time24.htm Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Ed Solheim" wrote...

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> Although it's showing great effort to atleast try and get > rid of the problems - it's a bit cumbersome imho. > > I've reported 2,3 "violators" already - but it usually > take 10-15 minutes to get anyone to tell me the correct > time - in EDT that is! > > I wish there were some other, easier way to report these > violators. > > BTW, could anyone tell me how many hours EDT (NOT EST) is > behind GMT or CET?

Ed as I am typing right now it is 10:47pm EDT.. Sorry I couldnt resist :) EDT=-4hrs GMT.. I think??...lol "Ed Solheim" wrote: <snipped> | I've reported 2,3 "violators" already - but it usually take 10-15 minutesto | get anyone to tell me the correct time - in EDT that is!<snipped> | BTW, could anyone tell me how many hours EDT (NOT EST) is behind GMT orCET? | | -- | ed_ | | --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

LOL....Achim My "new rule" only applies to "new posts." There....did I sufficiently dodge that issue? ...lol... Tom

Thom.... I talked to Barnes and Noble.....they said my novels were too long! ....lol.... Tom

Boy Ed.....I sure agree with you its cumbersome as it is. And, that's what I meant by saying "risk of being ineffective"....you know? But....there has to be some "checks and balances" against someone abusing the reporting procedure too. So, I can't see any other way for Papyrus to do this without being able to see the race replays directly. Can you? I am a bit fuzzy about just exactly how Papyrus would identify a wrecker's ID and/or CD key. Is the CD key data transmitted to the Papyrus servers every time you race.....or only when you log in? What is to prevent someone from buying another copy of N4? And, how about the case where some kid is using his dad's CD key to log in to the N4 servers....say, after school...when dad's still at work? How does dad get his right to run online N4 back? I will say that even if the incidents of intentional wrecking is reduced....just because of the "fear of potentially being caught"....then its worth the effort Papyrus is making. Tom

Hi Tom, yes, well dodged :-) Achim "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:EUKd7.59179$[email hidden]...

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> LOL....Achim > > My "new rule" only applies to "new posts." > > There....did I sufficiently dodge that issue? ...lol... > > Tom > > >

Hi Tom, > I can't see any other way for Papyrus to > do this without being able to see the race replays directly They are probably watching replays of the Papy servers (you have to give them server name, race finishing time, lap number and driver names). For all other servers, you can't report wreckers anyway, but they have admins out there watching races, so you never know whether your race is under scrutiny or not. It does have an amazing effect - the extreme variety of wreckers who used to wait for and try to hit you head-on lap after lap (which is how my LPI got so bad - they used to have a crush on leaders...) has gone away, and with the average Joe variety (those who conceil their intentions and just try to harass you while you're near them) you have a fair chance of getting away unharmed. And you'll only see them every x couple of laps, which improves your chances as well. As for the CD key, as I understood it the CD key is transmitted and linked to your WON name. You could of course buy a new CD, but you'd lose your rankings and have to shell out the money again. It seems to be a decent deterrent for the moment. Achim > I am a bit fuzzy about just exactly how Papyrus would identify a wrecker's > ID and/or CD key. Is the CD key data transmitted to the Papyrus servers > every time you race.....or only when you log in? What is to preventsomeone > from buying another copy of N4? And, how about the case where some kidis > using his dad's CD key to log in to the N4 servers....say, after > school...when dad's still at work? How does dad get his right to runonline

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> N4 back? > > I will say that even if the incidents of intentional wrecking is > reduced....just because of the "fear of potentially being caught"....then > its worth the effort Papyrus is making. > > Tom > > >

"Tom Pabst" wrote ... > And, how about the case where some kid is > using his dad's CD key to log in to the N4 servers....say, after > school...when dad's still at work? <g> If this still works the same way it did when I was a kid, Dad kicks little Johnny's ass for costing him his racing privileges. If we spend any time guaranteeing parents protection from their kids, perhaps our energies are a bit mis-focused ;-) BTW, I have a 16-year-old and while I've never been the ass-kicking sort, I have put a power-on password on the PC for two weeks on three occasions over the last two years. I think he's starting to get the idea.

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Hi Tom, > > > I can't see any other way for Papyrus to > > do this without being able to see the race replays directly > > They are probably watching replays of the Papy servers (you have to give > them server name, race finishing time, lap number and driver names). For all > other servers, you can't report wreckers anyway, but they have admins out > there watching races, so you never know whether your race is under scrutiny > or not. > > It does have an amazing effect - the extreme variety of wreckers who used to > wait for and try to hit you head-on lap after lap (which is how my LPI got > so bad - they used to have a crush on leaders...) has gone away, and with > the average Joe variety (those who conceil their intentions and just try to > harass you while you're near them) you have a fair chance of getting away > unharmed. And you'll only see them every x couple of laps, which improves > your chances as well.

Indeed. However this weekend I ran into several apron-passers and first lap heroes. When I told a guy who was a constant pain for all the others out there that he should try to calm down a little bit i got a simple "fu 176" answer :) > As for the CD key, as I understood it the CD key is transmitted and linked > to your WON name. You could of course buy a new CD, but you'd lose your > rankings and have to shell out the money again. It seems to be a decent > deterrent for the moment. Yes, the wreckers have to pay for their hobby, and it's probably not that funny that is't worth $40 once a week.

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> Achim > > > > I am a bit fuzzy about just exactly how Papyrus would identify a wrecker's > > ID and/or CD key. Is the CD key data transmitted to the Papyrus servers > > every time you race.....or only when you log in? What is to prevent > someone > > from buying another copy of N4? And, how about the case where some kid > is > > using his dad's CD key to log in to the N4 servers....say, after > > school...when dad's still at work? How does dad get his right to run > online > > N4 back? > > > > I will say that even if the incidents of intentional wrecking is > > reduced....just because of the "fear of potentially being caught"....then > > its worth the effort Papyrus is making. > > > > Tom > > > > > > > >

-- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Hi Olav, > ...apron-passers and first lap heroes... That's bad racing, bad manners and an immature attitude, but it's not wrecking. You can't do much about them. WON doesn't have funds to moderate all races. And I think WON actually needs to be free for all buyers of N4, both experienced and less experienced drivers, so we have to put up with the rookies too. IMO, the best reply to those guys is to just join another race. You've got more to lose than them. > When I told a guy who was a constant pain for all > the others out there that he should try to calm down > a little bit i got a simple "fu 176" answer :) How about replying something like 'congrats on your first words, now work on your style', or 'hey, it can speak', or 'I think I heard a frogg squawk' :-) Achim

I bet they did too!! hahaha No BS!! :) "Tom Pabst" wrote: | Thom.... | I talked to Barnes and Noble.....they said my novels were too long! | ....lol.... | | Tom --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.265 / Virus Database: 137 - Release Date: 7/18/2001

I hadn't thought of it from that standpoint Don....but you are absolutely right. Tom

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> writes: > Hi Olav, > > > ...apron-passers and first lap heroes... > > That's bad racing, bad manners and an immature attitude, but it's not > wrecking. Never said that :) And it is only half as annoying as intentionals, since a bit of smart drivng can keep me away from trouble like that. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying