N2002 Demo: Papy has done it again!

- exceeded them selfs that is! N2002 will clearly bring us to the next level in the NASCAR-sim-racing saga. There are lots of good things in this demo but for me one thing sticks out above the rest; the telemetry. Finally we have the ability to see whats *really* going on... and the throttle- and brake-posistion telemetry in N2002 will do just that... no more guessing or looking at incorrect "speed-plots" This feature will be of help for us all - novices as well as so called "hotshots". Clearly *the* feature of N2002 imho... Thanks Papy!! Now for the 3 issues that are misssing.... 1. From what I can see in the readme's etc. - we wont be able to put LPI-restrioctions on servers this time either :-(((( Why-o-why Papy/Sierra ??? Why cant you add this feature and lets us be able to remove this wrecking problem - once and for all. The ability to put LPI restrictions on races will allow us to do just that. PLEASE!?!?! 2. The ability to use scrubbed (worn) tires during practice sessions. 3. Split the tirewear indicator into 3 parts - showing wear on Inside-Middle-Outside of the tire. Would be a *tremedous* help for setting the car!! Other than that... what can I say...? The new sound is awesome - and those flames ROCK! On the other hand..... I *think* I like the old dashboard better.... and... oh, there's a little bug with the gearstick and the "leg-protector-plate"! :-) Oh... I really hope we can "filter" the racelist on WON/Sierra this time - Please take a look at Return To Castle Wolfenstein or Q3Arena by ID software to see how good it can be done.. I'm sick and tired of haveing to drove thru a million empty servers or 2 million SS-servers just to find the one-2 roadcourse races *I* want. It cant be that hard - can it? Also - no OpenGL rasterize ? -- ed_ The GPLEA -------------------------------------- - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. Spell it, please. - E-F-R. No, no, spell your name. - E-F-R!!

Oh... forgot one thing: can we get a *real* fix to that wall riding problem this time - please? The old "fix" is downright dangerous and have riuned a lot of tracks Imho. -- ed_ "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding news:oABX7.13466$[email hidden]... > - exceeded them selfs that is! > > N2002 will clearly bring us to the next level in the NASCAR-sim-racing saga. > There are lots of good things in this demo but for me one thing sticks out > above the rest; the telemetry. Finally we have the ability to see whats > *really* going on... and the throttle- and brake-posistion telemetry in > N2002 will do just that... no more guessing or looking at incorrect > "speed-plots" This feature will be of help for us all - novices as well as > so called "hotshots". Clearly *the* feature of N2002 imho... Thanks Papy!! > > Now for the 3 issues that are misssing.... > > 1. From what I can see in the readme's etc. - we wont be able to put > LPI-restrioctions on servers this time either :-(((( Why-o-why > Papy/Sierra ??? Why cant you add this feature and lets us be able to > remove this wrecking problem - once and for all. The ability to put LPI > restrictions on races will allow us to do just that. PLEASE!?!?! > > 2. The ability to use scrubbed (worn) tires during practice sessions. > > 3. Split the tirewear indicator into 3 parts - showing wear on > Inside-Middle-Outside of the tire. Would be a *tremedous* help for setting > the car!! > > Other than that... what can I say...? > > The new sound is awesome - and those flames ROCK! > On the other hand..... I *think* I like the old dashboard better.... > and... oh, there's a little bug with the gearstick and the > "leg-protector-plate"! :-) > > Oh... I really hope we can "filter" the racelist on WON/Sierra this time - > Please take a look at Return To Castle Wolfenstein or Q3Arena by ID software > to see how good it can be done.. I'm sick and tired of haveing to drove > thru a million empty servers or 2 million SS-servers just to find the one-2 > roadcourse races *I* want. It cant be that hard - can it? > > Also - no OpenGL rasterize ? > > > -- > ed_ > The GPLEA > -------------------------------------- > - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. > Spell it, please. > - E-F-R. > No, no, spell your name. > - E-F-R!! > >

"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oABX7.13466$[email hidden]... > - exceeded them selfs that is! > > N2002 will clearly bring us to the next level in the NASCAR-sim-racingsaga. > There are lots of good things in this demo but for me one thing sticksout > above the rest; the telemetry. Finally we have the ability to see whats > *really* going on... and the throttle- and brake-posistion telemetry in > N2002 will do just that... no more guessing or looking at incorrect > "speed-plots" This feature will be of help for us all - novices as wellas > so called "hotshots". Clearly *the* feature of N2002 imho... ThanksPapy!! >Will the demo install itself separately and without conflicting with Nascar 4 ? Or any other Sierra/Papyrus stuff ? Nice advert, btw ;-)

"redTed" WROTE: > > > Will the demo install itself separately and without conflicting withNascar > 4 ? Or any other Sierra/Papyrus stuff ? From wwhat I can see - yes. > Nice advert, btw ;-) Thanks.... ? -- ed_ The GPLEA -------------------------------------- - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. Spell it, please. - E-F-R. No, no, spell your name. - E-F-R!!

"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NZCX7.13511$[email hidden]...

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> > "redTed" WROTE: > > > > > > Will the demo install itself separately and without conflicting with > Nascar > > 4 ? Or any other Sierra/Papyrus stuff ? > > From wwhat I can see - yes. > > > Nice advert, btw ;-) > > Thanks.... ?

Sorry. You're brief review just read like a press release.

"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> writes: > Oh... forgot one thing: can we get a *real* fix to that wall riding problem > this time - please? > The old "fix" is downright dangerous and have riuned a lot of tracks Imho. what is the problem with wall riding? what is the old fix? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"

Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself. It's better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in the first place IMO. Also, cars still flipping at very slow speed impacts :( -John Ed Solheim <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oABX7.13466$[email hidden]... > - exceeded them selfs that is! > > N2002 will clearly bring us to the next level in the NASCAR-sim-racingsaga. > There are lots of good things in this demo but for me one thing sticksout > above the rest; the telemetry. Finally we have the ability to see whats > *really* going on... and the throttle- and brake-posistion telemetry in > N2002 will do just that... no more guessing or looking at incorrect > "speed-plots" This feature will be of help for us all - novices as wellas > so called "hotshots". Clearly *the* feature of N2002 imho... ThanksPapy!!

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> > Now for the 3 issues that are misssing.... > > 1. From what I can see in the readme's etc. - we wont be able to put > LPI-restrioctions on servers this time either :-(((( Why-o-why > Papy/Sierra ??? Why cant you add this feature and lets us be able to > remove this wrecking problem - once and for all. The ability to put LPI > restrictions on races will allow us to do just that. PLEASE!?!?! > > 2. The ability to use scrubbed (worn) tires during practice sessions. > > 3. Split the tirewear indicator into 3 parts - showing wear on > Inside-Middle-Outside of the tire. Would be a *tremedous* help for setting > the car!! > > Other than that... what can I say...? > > The new sound is awesome - and those flames ROCK! > On the other hand..... I *think* I like the old dashboard better.... > and... oh, there's a little bug with the gearstick and the > "leg-protector-plate"! :-) > > Oh... I really hope we can "filter" the racelist on WON/Sierra this time - > Please take a look at Return To Castle Wolfenstein or Q3Arena by ID

software > to see how good it can be done.. I'm sick and tired of haveing to drove > thru a million empty servers or 2 million SS-servers just to find theone-2

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> roadcourse races *I* want. It cant be that hard - can it? > > Also - no OpenGL rasterize ? > > > -- > ed_ > The GPLEA > -------------------------------------- > - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. > Spell it, please. > - E-F-R. > No, no, spell your name. > - E-F-R!! > >

> but it's what N4 should have been with in the first place > IMO. .................*yawn*

:) Have a nice day. -John JJ Sricklin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vBGX7.10069$[email hidden]...

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> > but it's what N4 should have been with in the first place > > IMO. > > .................*yawn* > > >

I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002 should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of improvements to justify full boat game pricing. John Pancoast wrote: > Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself. It's > better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in the first place > IMO. >

I'll get it; what choice is there to keep racing online, as servers will switch over? Just one of those things; it stinks, but not much to do about it. Papy's in the business to make $, can't blame them for releasing a new title whenever they want, just to bad N4 seems more like NR1999/N3 in terms of usefullness than anything else :) Oh well, not that big of deal really. -John dstruye <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002 > should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of > improvements to justify full boat game pricing. > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself. It's > > better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in the first

place > > IMO. > > >

"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oABX7.13466$[email hidden]... > - exceeded them selfs that is! > > N2002 will clearly bring us to the next level in the NASCAR-sim-racingsaga. > There are lots of good things in this demo but for me one thing sticksout > above the rest; the telemetry. Finally we have the ability to see whats > *really* going on... and the throttle- and brake-posistion telemetry in > N2002 will do just that... no more guessing or looking at incorrect > "speed-plots" This feature will be of help for us all - novices as wellas > so called "hotshots". Clearly *the* feature of N2002 imho... ThanksPapy!! > Wasn't that in Nascar Heat ? :) Mole hill! LOL -Jacob

Ed Solheim <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oABX7.13466$[email hidden]... > - exceeded them selfs that is! > >snipped.... Well, first impression after trying the demo...i'm not thrilled. The only thing i've seen them do is create another N2>N3 style change. Graphics: I'm not too sure i see much of a change. The cockpit looks better, but i don't see anything that the online crowd couldn't/wouldn't have done. The cars themselves...i can't tell much of a difference physically, although the larger paint texture certainly looks better, no doubt there. Sound: Very much improved. I like it for the most part. Only thing is that the engine never really sounds like it tops out. The tach says 'shift' but the engine doesn't sound like it. Physics: Like most people have already said, it feels more like a 3,400lb stock car should feel. It's also a bit more forgiving. I think they're good changes with what little time i've spent with it so far. Overall: I can't help but feel there's not really much to this overall. Telemetry? Big deal...we're talking about a feature that some Playstation games have had for years. Certainly not something that makes me want to spend the 50 on it right away. I'm with John Pancoast...i don't see anything that a good patch couldn't do. -- - Will DeRivera - GPL Rank 103.93 - http://www.numic.net - http://www.luxt.com - Hi, I'm a sig virus. - Please add me to the end of your sig and help me take over the world.

For me there is big inprovement in physics, and I'm sure people will soon start to realize that. It is much more sophisticated. "Will DeRivera" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DeIX7.8279$[email hidden]... > > Physics: Like most people have already said, it feels more like a 3,400lb > stock car should feel. It's also a bit more forgiving. I think they'regood

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> changes with what little time i've spent with it so far. > > - Will DeRivera > - GPL Rank 103.93 > - http://www.numic.net > - http://www.luxt.com > - Hi, I'm a sig virus. > - Please add me to the end of your sig and help me take over the world. > >

The way I look at it is $50/year isn't that bad. I always make the old comparison of dollars/hour for my entertainment. $50 for hundreds of hours of entertainment doesn't seem like all that much to me. Especially compared to a night out at the movies. $.02 dstruye <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002 > should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of > improvements to justify full boat game pricing. > > John Pancoast wrote: > >> Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself. It's >> better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in the first >> place IMO. >> >

>"Jacob Butner" <jbutner@*REMOVE-MEsimracing.org> wrote > Mole hill! LOL ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/yves.menard/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

The problem with that arguement is that people who DO NOT have N4 will have to spend the $50 (or whatever it is now) for N4, as well as the $30 for the N2002. -Stuart Becktell "dstruye" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002 > should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of > improvements to justify full boat game pricing. > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself. It's > > better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in the first

place > > IMO. > > >

"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oABX7.13466$[email hidden]... > - exceeded them selfs that is! > > N2002 will clearly bring us to the next level in the NASCAR-sim-racingsaga. > There are lots of good things in this demo but for me one thing sticksout > above the rest; the telemetry. Finally we have the ability to see whats > *really* going on... Um, isn't telemetry something they should have done a long time ago? David G Fisher

Not really :) Anyone who spends $50, even last month, for N4 doesn't know about eBay :) -John Stuart Becktell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8tKX7.49502$[email hidden]... > The problem with that arguement is that people who DO NOT have N4 willhave > to spend the $50 (or whatever it is now) for N4, as well as the $30 forthe

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> N2002. > -Stuart Becktell > "dstruye" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002 > > should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of > > improvements to justify full boat game pricing. > > > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > > Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself. It's > > > better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in the first > place > > > IMO. > > > > > > >

Not in a stock car sim, no. Still shouldn't be for that matter. -John David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uwKX7.339323$[email hidden]...

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> > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:oABX7.13466$[email hidden]... > > - exceeded them selfs that is! > > > > N2002 will clearly bring us to the next level in the NASCAR-sim-racing > saga. > > There are lots of good things in this demo but for me one thing sticks > out > > above the rest; the telemetry. Finally we have the ability to see

whats

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> > *really* going on... > > Um, isn't telemetry something they should have done a long time ago? > > David G Fisher > >

I agree - there is that indefinable something in the physics now - as someone said it is more like a stockcar than GPL with a stockcar body (as N4 arguably was) - far easier to slide through corners i feel Ian On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 19:27:06 +0100, "Mario Petrinovic" <[email hidden]> wrote: > For me there is big inprovement in physics, and I'm sure >people will soon start to realize that. It is much more >sophisticated. >

Huh? -Larry "Stuart Becktell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8tKX7.49502$[email hidden]... > The problem with that arguement is that people who DO NOT have N4 willhave > to spend the $50 (or whatever it is now) for N4, as well as the $30 forthe

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> N2002. > -Stuart Becktell > "dstruye" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002 > > should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of > > improvements to justify full boat game pricing. > > > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > > Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself. It's > > > better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in the first > place > > > IMO. > > > > > > >

I don't get the impression the 2002 is an Addon disc. Looking at the program, it is a separate install. Not having N4 is not a problem. But those who have already purchased N4 might not find enough new features to justify $50. Especially when EA makes a huge leap from F1cs2k to f12001 for only $30. dave henrie "Stuart Becktell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8tKX7.49502$[email hidden]... > The problem with that arguement is that people who DO NOT have N4 willhave > to spend the $50 (or whatever it is now) for N4, as well as the $30 forthe

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> N2002. > -Stuart Becktell > "dstruye" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002 > > should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of > > improvements to justify full boat game pricing. > > > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > > Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself. It's > > > better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in the first > place > > > IMO. > > > > > > >

dstruye wrote: > > I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002 > should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of > improvements to justify full boat game pricing. ....even Microsoft offers people who have already purchased their software to upgrade to latest version at a discount :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

Is it really end up $50? We must spend more bucks for CPU, graphics card, or somesoing for take same performans as N4. Y.Minami "Stuart Becktell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8tKX7.49502$[email hidden]... > The problem with that arguement is that people who DO NOT have N4 willhave > to spend the $50 (or whatever it is now) for N4, as well as the $30 forthe

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> N2002. > -Stuart Becktell > "dstruye" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002 > > should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of > > improvements to justify full boat game pricing. > > > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > > Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself. It's > > > better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in the first > place > > > IMO. > > > > > > >

Ed Solheim wrote:

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> > "Jacob Butner" said: > > Wasn't that in Nascar Heat ? :) > > > > Mole hill! LOL > > I have no idea. Prior to Nascar 4, the last sim I installed was GPL!

In that case you're missing out on a lot of fun Ed, the DTM mod for NHeat is pretty damn good Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

"Jacob Butner" said: > Wasn't that in Nascar Heat ? :) > > Mole hill! LOL I have no idea. Prior to Nascar 4, the last sim I installed was GPL! -- ed_ "Life begins @ 7,000 rpm!"

"Jacob Butner" said: I have no idea. Prior to Nascar 4, the last sim I installed was GPL! -- ed_

DTM's good but I'm confused as why they ram into the back of ya like a stockcar. :) "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Ed Solheim wrote: > > > > "Jacob Butner" said: > > > Wasn't that in Nascar Heat ? :) > > > > > > Mole hill! LOL > > > > I have no idea. Prior to Nascar 4, the last sim I installed was GPL! > > In that case you're missing out on a lot of fun Ed, the DTM mod for > NHeat is pretty damn good > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" > --Groucho Marx--

What? "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:BbMX7.10697$[email hidden]...

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> Huh? > > -Larry > > "Stuart Becktell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8tKX7.49502$[email hidden]... > > The problem with that arguement is that people who DO NOT have N4 will > have > > to spend the $50 (or whatever it is now) for N4, as well as the $30 for > the > > N2002. > > -Stuart Becktell > > "dstruye" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002 > > > should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of > > > improvements to justify full boat game pricing. > > > > > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > > > > Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself.

It's > > > > better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in thefirst

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> > place > > > > IMO. > > > > > > > > > > > > >

How's the online racing? -- ed_ "Goy Larsen" > > In that case you're missing out on a lot of fun Ed, the DTM mod for > NHeat is pretty damn good

Ed Solheim wrote: > > How's the online racing? Very good actually, the TPTCC will be running an A and B group this season with 22 cars in each, which is the max we've been able to run There are the odd glitches that we normally see with the N3 based TPTCC, but whether this is down to NHeat or the fact that we're using custom tracks I don't know, we had the odd problem on some of the custom tracks in N3 last season as well The lack of yellows in NHeat doesn't bother us of course :-), so even though NHeat's MP code probably isn't up to Papy's standards, it's more bandwidth consuming for one, it's more than good enough for some fun online league racing, and from what I've seen the guys post so far, the collision detection is more forgiving as well, i.e., a gentle touch won't send you skywards Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> writes: > Not in a stock car sim, no. Still shouldn't be for that matter. > >-John Why not? Wouldn't it help people improve their laptimes? Don't the real teams use it? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Nope. It's not allowed to be used by the teams. Cal Wells showed up at Daytona practices this past year, loaded to the hilt with gear,(Nascar allowed him to experiment with it before the actual races) with all the other teams paying close attention, to see the results, in terms of if this area needed to change............due to his team's results, input, etc., they didn't.<G> All the laptops, etc. you see at a Nascar race show own/competitor laptimes, weather, broadcasts, pit stop info., etc., but nothing close to the telemetry of the open wheeled series is allowed. Reasons run from keeping costs lower, to maintaining the "more basic" style of racing.......and one I support fwiw, thought the cars are so temperamental now, not sure if it matters if it's allowed or not; the series is getting to techie anyway in some ways, IMO. Thank God for local tracks<G> -John EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > Not in a stock car sim, no. Still shouldn't be for that matter. > > > >-John > > Why not? Wouldn't it help people improve their laptimes? Don't the real

teams

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> use it? > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>Why not? Wouldn't it help people improve their laptimes? Don't the real >teams >use it? The only telemetry a stock car has available is the telemetry we see on TV that shows speed, RPM, throttle, and brake. Anything else is banned by NASCAR. ----------------------------------------- Dan Belcher Webmaster, http://www.gplworld.racesim.net/simcrash

That's because F12000 and F12000CS were garbage. It's a very small and deserved break for those who bought the previous 2 bug-ridden messes. Marc "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0hMX7.18813$kK1.111502@rwcrnsc52... > I don't get the impression the 2002 is an Addon disc. Looking at the > program, it is a separate install. Not having N4 is not a problem. But > those who have already purchased N4 might not find enough new features to > justify $50. Especially when EA makes a huge leap from F1cs2k to f12001for

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> only $30. > dave henrie > "Stuart Becktell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8tKX7.49502$[email hidden]... > > The problem with that arguement is that people who DO NOT have N4 will > have > > to spend the $50 (or whatever it is now) for N4, as well as the $30 for > the > > N2002. > > -Stuart Becktell > > "dstruye" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002 > > > should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of > > > improvements to justify full boat game pricing. > > > > > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > > > > Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself.

It's > > > > better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in thefirst

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> > place > > > > IMO. > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Papyrus made their leap with N4. That truly was worth $50. But to merely add some Nascar Heat features and fix the car texture size seems a-bit much to be charging full price.(which is $10 bucks to high to start with) So, in the face of F1 2001's low price and great word of mouth, the asking price for N2002 just seems steep, really steep.(love those engine noises tho...fired up N4 for the first time in months to compare the two...damn I miss my athlon....) dave henrie "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ibxY7.9128$[email hidden]...

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> That's because F12000 and F12000CS were garbage. It's a very small and > deserved break for those who bought the previous 2 bug-ridden messes. > > Marc > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:0hMX7.18813$kK1.111502@rwcrnsc52... > > I don't get the impression the 2002 is an Addon disc. Looking at the > > program, it is a separate install. Not having N4 is not a problem. But > > those who have already purchased N4 might not find enough new features

to

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> > justify $50. Especially when EA makes a huge leap from F1cs2k to f12001 > for > > only $30. > > dave henrie > > "Stuart Becktell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:8tKX7.49502$[email hidden]... > > > The problem with that arguement is that people who DO NOT have N4 will > > have > > > to spend the $50 (or whatever it is now) for N4, as well as the $30

for

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> > the > > > N2002. > > > -Stuart Becktell > > > "dstruye" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > I agree to a certain extent. The improvements are few in 2002. N2002 > > > > should be an expansion pack at best. I don't see $50 worth of > > > > improvements to justify full boat game pricing. > > > > > > > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > > > > > > Still haven't seen anything a patch to N4 wouldn't do myself. > It's > > > > > better, no doubt, but it's what N4 should have been with in the > first > > > place > > > > > IMO. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In the original release, you could drive around scraping the wall and complete laps much faster that folks who were driving "honestly". Papy tried to address this in the patch with what Ed refers to as the "old" fix: If a driver brushes the wall for more than a few seconds, the engine bogs downs and the car loses almost all power for about 5 seconds or so. The problem is, while this stops people from wallriding as a cheat, it also introduces new problems when somebody does for honest reasons. Typically this is in the middle of a turn, where the car should normally be accelerating. Suddenly, you have a car just poking along where everyone else is getting hard into the gas... which is a recipe for disaster, especially at tracks like North Carolina or Darlington where you kind of get stuck on the wall when this happens... right in the middle of the turn exit. The drivers immediately following can typically avoid the slow car, but drivers further behind have no idea trouble is brewing until it is too late. Suddenly a relatively minor driver error turns into a multiple car "incident". A better fix would be to introduce better damage modeling. In real life when you do this it can have implications to aerodynamics, handling, tires. There *should* be some drag when you are rubbing the wall, but not afterwards. I think this is one of the major problems with the game. I appreciate the efforts made to curtail cheating. But this was a heavy-fisted and not terribly well thought out response that in some instances is worse than the original issue. Gerald Moore Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > Oh... forgot one thing: can we get a *real* fix to that wall riding problem > > this time - please? > > The old "fix" is downright dangerous and have riuned a lot of tracks Imho. > > what is the problem with wall riding? what is the old fix?

I dunno. Real world drivers get "seat of the pants" feedback that we don't get. I think we deserve something to make up the difference. It's not "realistic", it's just another way of giving similar feedback. It's not extra information, it's just in a different format. The simulation is not in what you see, it is your response to the information that matters. I haven't played the demo. What kind of telemetry are we talking about here? Gerald "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> Not in a stock car sim, no. Still shouldn't be for that matter. > > -John > > > > David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:uwKX7.339323$[email hidden]... > > > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:oABX7.13466$[email hidden]... > > > - exceeded them selfs that is! > > > > > > N2002 will clearly bring us to the next level in the NASCAR-sim-racing > saga. > > > There are lots of good things in this demo but for me one thing sticks > out > > > above the rest; the telemetry. Finally we have the ability to see > whats > > > *really* going on... > > > > Um, isn't telemetry something they should have done a long time ago? > > > > David G Fisher > > > >

Gerald hit it spot on here - on all accounts; explaining the problem aswell as how it should have been solved. Thanks Gerald - I couldn't have said it any better myself. -- ed_ "Life begins @ 7,000 rpm!" "Gerald Moore" wrote: > In the original release, you could drive around scraping the wall and > complete laps much faster that folks who were driving "honestly". > > Papy tried to address this in the patch with what Ed refers to as the > "old" fix: If a driver brushes the wall for more than a few seconds, > the engine bogs downs and the car loses almost all power for about 5 > seconds or so. > > The problem is, while this stops people from wallriding as a cheat, it > also introduces new problems when somebody does for honest reasons. > Typically this is in the middle of a turn, where the car should > normally be accelerating. Suddenly, you have a car just poking along > where everyone else is getting hard into the gas... which is a recipe > for disaster, especially at tracks like North Carolina or Darlington > where you kind of get stuck on the wall when this happens... right in > the middle of the turn exit. The drivers immediately following can > typically avoid the slow car, but drivers further behind have no idea > trouble is brewing until it is too late. Suddenly a relatively minor > driver error turns into a multiple car "incident". > > A better fix would be to introduce better damage modeling. In real > life when you do this it can have implications to aerodynamics, > handling, tires. There *should* be some drag when you are rubbing the > wall, but not afterwards. > > I think this is one of the major problems with the game. I appreciate > the efforts made to curtail cheating. But this was a heavy-fisted and > not terribly well thought out response that in some instances is worse > than the original issue. > > Gerald Moore > > Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > Oh... forgot one thing: can we get a *real* fix to that wall riding problem > > > this time - please? > > > The old "fix" is downright dangerous and have riuned a lot of tracks Imho. > > > > what is the problem with wall riding? what is the old fix?

[email hidden] (Gerald Moore) writes:

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> In the original release, you could drive around scraping the wall and > complete laps much faster that folks who were driving "honestly". > > Papy tried to address this in the patch with what Ed refers to as the > "old" fix: If a driver brushes the wall for more than a few seconds, > the engine bogs downs and the car loses almost all power for about 5 > seconds or so. > > The problem is, while this stops people from wallriding as a cheat, it > also introduces new problems when somebody does for honest reasons.

[...] > A better fix would be to introduce better damage modeling. In real > life when you do this it can have implications to aerodynamics, > handling, tires. There *should* be some drag when you are rubbing the > wall, but not afterwards. hm. I agree (of course) that it isn't a very elegant solution, but does it really matter? I mean, as long as wallriding is roughly as imparing in N4 as in RL, the particular mechanics of punishment are mostly cosmetic, don't you think? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 "Det er nok ingen ovn, men fartsm�leren v�r."

>I haven't played the demo. What kind of telemetry are we talking >about here? > During replays, at the top of the screen, it has two bars that measure how much throttle and/or brake is being used at the time. ----------------------------------------- Dan Belcher Webmaster, http://www.gplworld.racesim.net/simcrash

Gerald, I agree... Make it stick like flypaper while on the wall, after a set number of seconds (we ALL brush the wall from time to time), but turn that nonsense off once contact is broken. -Larry "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In the original release, you could drive around scraping the wall and > complete laps much faster that folks who were driving "honestly". > > Papy tried to address this in the patch with what Ed refers to as the > "old" fix: If a driver brushes the wall for more than a few seconds, > the engine bogs downs and the car loses almost all power for about 5 > seconds or so. > > The problem is, while this stops people from wallriding as a cheat, it > also introduces new problems when somebody does for honest reasons. > Typically this is in the middle of a turn, where the car should > normally be accelerating. Suddenly, you have a car just poking along > where everyone else is getting hard into the gas... which is a recipe > for disaster, especially at tracks like North Carolina or Darlington > where you kind of get stuck on the wall when this happens... right in > the middle of the turn exit. The drivers immediately following can > typically avoid the slow car, but drivers further behind have no idea > trouble is brewing until it is too late. Suddenly a relatively minor > driver error turns into a multiple car "incident". > > A better fix would be to introduce better damage modeling. In real > life when you do this it can have implications to aerodynamics, > handling, tires. There *should* be some drag when you are rubbing the > wall, but not afterwards. > > I think this is one of the major problems with the game. I appreciate > the efforts made to curtail cheating. But this was a heavy-fisted and > not terribly well thought out response that in some instances is worse > than the original issue. > > Gerald Moore > > Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>... > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > Oh... forgot one thing: can we get a *real* fix to that wall ridingproblem > > > this time - please? > > > The old "fix" is downright dangerous and have riuned a lot of tracksImho. > > > > what is the problem with wall riding? what is the old fix?

I would say that it matter a whole lot..... IMHO the current situation (read: "fix") has made some of the more interresting tracks downright dangerous to race at. Especially with anything that look like a decent sized field.. (20-ish atleast.) Take Darlington for instance - it's unraceable (atleast safely) online. -- ed_ "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding news:[email hidden]... > [email hidden] (Gerald Moore) writes: > > > In the original release, you could drive around scraping the wall and > > complete laps much faster that folks who were driving "honestly". > > > > Papy tried to address this in the patch with what Ed refers to as the > > "old" fix: If a driver brushes the wall for more than a few seconds, > > the engine bogs downs and the car loses almost all power for about 5 > > seconds or so. > > > > The problem is, while this stops people from wallriding as a cheat, it > > also introduces new problems when somebody does for honest reasons. > [...] > > A better fix would be to introduce better damage modeling. In real > > life when you do this it can have implications to aerodynamics, > > handling, tires. There *should* be some drag when you are rubbing the > > wall, but not afterwards. > > hm. I agree (of course) that it isn't a very elegant solution, but > does it really matter? I mean, as long as wallriding is roughly as > imparing in N4 as in RL, the particular mechanics of punishment are > mostly cosmetic, don't you think? > > > -- > Gunnar > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 > "Det er nok ingen ovn, men fartsm�leren v�r."

It's also not entirely reliable. It occasionally gives me the penalty at Darlington when I don't even touch the wall, just get very close to it....considering the line at Darlington and the way the tires wear it's almost imposiblle to be competitive and not get within inches of the wall at some point. It's only done it to me 3 times since I patched, but that's too many when it costs wrecks and lost positions for just regular racing. "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oJLY7.16874$[email hidden]... > I would say that it matter a whole lot..... IMHO the current situation > (read: "fix") has made some of the more interresting tracks downright > dangerous to race at. Especially with anything that look like a decentsized

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> field.. (20-ish atleast.) > > Take Darlington for instance - it's unraceable (atleast safely) online. > > -- > ed_ > > "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding > news:[email hidden]... > > [email hidden] (Gerald Moore) writes: > > > > > In the original release, you could drive around scraping the wall and > > > complete laps much faster that folks who were driving "honestly". > > > > > > Papy tried to address this in the patch with what Ed refers to as the > > > "old" fix: If a driver brushes the wall for more than a few seconds, > > > the engine bogs downs and the car loses almost all power for about 5 > > > seconds or so. > > > > > > The problem is, while this stops people from wallriding as a cheat, it > > > also introduces new problems when somebody does for honest reasons. > > [...] > > > A better fix would be to introduce better damage modeling. In real > > > life when you do this it can have implications to aerodynamics, > > > handling, tires. There *should* be some drag when you are rubbing the > > > wall, but not afterwards. > > > > hm. I agree (of course) that it isn't a very elegant solution, but > > does it really matter? I mean, as long as wallriding is roughly as > > imparing in N4 as in RL, the particular mechanics of punishment are > > mostly cosmetic, don't you think? > > > > > > -- > > Gunnar > > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�:

2 > > "Det er nok ingen ovn, men fartsm�leren v�r." > >

Michael Crane <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Rh1Z7.180590$[email hidden]... > It's also not entirely reliable. It occasionally gives me the penalty at > Darlington when I don't even touch the wall, just get very close to > it....considering the line at Darlington and the way the tires wear it's > almost imposiblle to be competitive and not get within inches of the wallat > some point. It's only done it to me 3 times since I patched, but that'stoo > many when it costs wrecks and lost positions for just regular racing. lol...you like that? I've had it do it to me from rubbing another car! Oh yeah...great solution there. <rolls eyes> -- - Will DeRivera - GPL Rank 103.93 - http://www.numic.net - http://www.luxt.com - Hi, I'm a sig virus. - Please add me to the end of your sig and help me take over the world.