Re: NASCAR 4, there goes the neighbourhood

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:40:36 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>>"Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote >> I know that some americans are going to say : "Here's for GP3, GP500 >> and so on", which I understand, but why is it so difficult to release >> something world wide. Haven't they heard about the Internet ? > >I think it's more "Haven't you heard about the internet ?". There is plenty >of online gaming stores where you will be able to buy Nascar Racing 4. The >days of saying "I can't buy it because I'm in a foreign country" are over.

But then it seems that more and more online stores have adopted a 'no delivery outside of USA' policy over the last years. Or to be more precise, it seems almost all acknowledge those pesky 'Not for sale outside of US' markings on the packages these days. So, which are those online stores that will ship US versions to Europe regardless ? Any hints ? Thomas

According to High Gear, NASCAR 4 will only be released in North America and Germany (!). I know that some americans are going to say : "Here's for GP3, GP500 and so on", which I understand, but why is it so difficult to release something world wide. Haven't they heard about the Internet ? Or that W word not spoken on r.a.s. ? Stupid... -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

> According to High Gear, NASCAR 4 will only be released in North > America and Germany (!). erm? Have they not heard of the ASCAR series which is coming to the UK which will surely increase the interest in all things NASCAR'ey? Also, are they insane?

On 10 Jan 2001 16:13:06 +0100, [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote: >According to High Gear, NASCAR 4 will only be released in North >America and Germany (!). Which is at least one step better than NH. :-) But why in the world Germany? They probably have done their research, but I'm not aware of a NASCAR following over here. And the sporadic coverage on EuroSport is the same for every- one on this continent ... Jan

So do what I did when Mig Alley first came out (UK only), mail order N4 over the internet! Of course you will have to excuse how we spell "color" here in the US... ;-) G Patricks

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>On 10 Jan 2001 16:13:06 +0100, [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote: >According to High Gear, NASCAR 4 will only be released in North >America and Germany (!). > >I know that some americans are going to say : "Here's for GP3, GP500 >and so on", which I understand, but why is it so difficult to release >something world wide. Haven't they heard about the Internet ? Or that >W word not spoken on r.a.s. ? > >Stupid...

> > Of course you will have to excuse how we spell "color" here in the > US... > As a Canadian, I'm exposed to a hybrid form of spelling. Some things are spelt the US way and some the UK way. The one I was surprised by was the UK spelling of "Tyre". I just thought people were spelling it that way on Newsgroups to be different : ) Michael M

DSF (Deutshes Sport Fernsehen) does carry summaries of the major (NASCAR) races. Jan. =--- Jan Loebzien wrote...

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> <snip> > Which is at least one step better than NH. :-) > But why in the world Germany? They probably have done their > research, but I'm not aware of a NASCAR following over here. > And the sporadic coverage on EuroSport is the same for every- > one on this continent ... > > > Jan

G Patricks <[email hidden]> writes: > So do what I did when Mig Alley first came out (UK only), mail order > N4 over the internet! > > Of course you will have to excuse how we spell "color" here in the > US... hmm, this one went way over my head :) (btw: i know that they say color in US and colour in UK:)

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> ;-) > G Patricks > > >On 10 Jan 2001 16:13:06 +0100, [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote: > >According to High Gear, NASCAR 4 will only be released in North > >America and Germany (!). > > > >I know that some americans are going to say : "Here's for GP3, GP500 > >and so on", which I understand, but why is it so difficult to release > >something world wide. Haven't they heard about the Internet ? Or that > >W word not spoken on r.a.s. ? > > > >Stupid... >

-- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

You understood perfectly Olav, it wasn't complicated! G Patricks

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>On 10 Jan 2001 19:58:32 +0100, [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote: >G Patricks <[email hidden]> writes: > >> So do what I did when Mig Alley first came out (UK only), mail order >> N4 over the internet! >> >> Of course you will have to excuse how we spell "color" here in the >> US... > >hmm, this one went way over my head :) (btw: i know that they say color in >US and colour in UK:)

ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in article <oF476.79647$[email hidden]>... > > I think it's more "Haven't you heard about the internet ?". There isplenty > of online gaming stores where you will be able to buy Nascar Racing4. The > days of saying "I can't buy it because I'm in a foreign country" areover. > Hi, I think the response may have been a little different if you lived outside the USA/Canada.. Down here in OZ, we get bloody sick of being left out of everything, simply because of our graphical location. But is so easy for you guys in the USA/Canada to say, "so what", get it on the internet... Why the hell Germany then?? At least we HAVE a oval series here in Oz and still get kicked in the faces for supporting the sim software houses. Ron Ayton Australia (unknown continent)

>"Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote > I know that some americans are going to say : "Here's for GP3, GP500 > and so on", which I understand, but why is it so difficult to release > something world wide. Haven't they heard about the Internet ? I think it's more "Haven't you heard about the internet ?". There is plenty of online gaming stores where you will be able to buy Nascar Racing 4. The days of saying "I can't buy it because I'm in a foreign country" are over. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

LOL, the Olympics wern't bad, where they.. :) Cheers, Ron Rob <[email hidden]> wrote in article <hY476.8711$[email hidden]>... > The Americans are just mad at you for having such a good Olympics :) > > Look on the bright side - at least Australia is regarded as aseparate > country. Much of the world thinks of us Canadians as just wanna-be > Americans. >

The Americans are just mad at you for having such a good Olympics :) Look on the bright side - at least Australia is regarded as a separate country. Much of the world thinks of us Canadians as just wanna-be Americans. "Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c07b50$6373afa0$ee4336cb@ronayton...

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> Hi, > Down here in OZ, we get bloody sick of being left out of everything, > simply because of our graphical location. > But is so easy for you guys in the USA/Canada to say, "so what", get it > on the internet... > Why the hell Germany then?? > At least we HAVE a oval series here in Oz and still get kicked in the > faces for supporting the sim software houses. > > Ron Ayton > Australia (unknown continent) >

ymenard wrote: > > I think it's more "Haven't you heard about the internet ?". There isplenty > of online gaming stores where you will be able to buy Nascar Racing 4.The > days of saying "I can't buy it because I'm in a foreign country" are over. Providing you got a valid credit card - that is... Ed_

Looks like another great move from papy...<G> so the only way to get it over here will be warez? Congrats Papy, way to go... Olav K. Malmin <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws [email hidden]...

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> According to High Gear, NASCAR 4 will only be released in North > America and Germany (!). > > I know that some americans are going to say : "Here's for GP3, GP500 > and so on", which I understand, but why is it so difficult to release > something world wide. Haven't they heard about the Internet ? Or that > W word not spoken on r.a.s. ? > > Stupid... > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove .spam when replying >

[email hidden] (Tim Vanhee) wrote in <Qv576.131010$[email hidden]>: If it gets that stupid which I can't see happening.. I'm sure anyone in the US or Canada will be happy to mail you one if you send them the money. >Looks like another great move from papy...<G> so the only way to get it >over here will be warez? >Congrats Papy, way to go... >

I was counting on my overseas GPVL buddies to do just that George. ;-)) Jan. =--- Alky wrote... > If it gets that stupid which I can't see happening.. I'm sure > anyone in the US or Canada will be happy to mail you one if > you send them the money.

I have a sealed copy of N4 as well as WSC. I'll sell you both for $150CDN. For an extra $4.95 I'll throw in GP4. mwah hah hahhhhh... :) (mail fraud??? Who, me?) "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I was counting on my overseas GPVL buddies to do just that George. ;-)) > > Jan. > =--- > Alky wrote... > > If it gets that stupid which I can't see happening.. I'm sure > > anyone in the US or Canada will be happy to mail you one if > > you send them the money. > >

The difference between my GPVL buddies and you Rob, is that they can be trusted. Jan. =--- Rob wrote...

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> I have a sealed copy of N4 as well as WSC. I'll sell you both > for $150CDN. > > For an extra $4.95 I'll throw in GP4. > > mwah hah hahhhhh... :) > > (mail fraud??? Who, me?)

I can be trusted to crash at the chicane every 10 laps at Monaco, every 3 at Spa, and to swear loudly at least once per lap at the Ring. No other guarantees explicit or implied <g>. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> The difference between my GPVL buddies and you Rob, is that they can be > trusted. > > Jan. > =--- > Rob wrote... > > I have a sealed copy of N4 as well as WSC. I'll sell you both > > for $150CDN. > > > > For an extra $4.95 I'll throw in GP4. > > > > mwah hah hahhhhh... :) > > > > (mail fraud??? Who, me?) > >

What you are seeing is NOT Papyrus but Sierra/havas. They have an active business in Germany, not so in England etc. Now the biggest cost for a software product other than the costs of programming is........ anyone? anyone? Buehler? The biggest cost for a company selling software is SUPPORT. Why do you think they coded the N3 patch so we couldn't see the old ICR2 tracks? To save money. Imagine the Sierra help line getting swamped by callers who want to race at Mid Ohio...but they can't find that track on the N3 cd. Imagine all those Geforce/Tnt users calling up the support lines cuz the ICR2 tracks won't work in d3d. Sierra has made a cost-analysis decision that frankly sucks...but they will probably save more money in support funding they they would have made in sales. And yes....we yanks will help with those unfortunates who can't get it.... dave henrie "Tim Vanhee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Qv576.131010$[email hidden]... > Looks like another great move from papy...<G> so the only way to get itover

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> here will be warez? > Congrats Papy, way to go... > > Olav K. Malmin <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws > [email hidden]... > > According to High Gear, NASCAR 4 will only be released in North > > America and Germany (!). > > > > I know that some americans are going to say : "Here's for GP3, GP500 > > and so on", which I understand, but why is it so difficult to release > > something world wide. Haven't they heard about the Internet ? Or that > > W word not spoken on r.a.s. ? > > > > Stupid... > > > > -- > > Olav K. Malmin > > remove .spam when replying > > > >

In article <01c07b50$6373afa0$ee4336cb@ronayton>, [email hidden] says... > Why the hell Germany then?? > At least we HAVE a oval series here in Oz and still get kicked in the > faces for supporting the sim software houses. Yes. ;/ DTR only *just* got released here..! and it was friggen coded here! I have a dirt track just a few k's from me, Saturday nights I can here them racing. Just gives me a reason to try out my first credit card though, held off getting one for many many years. It's also likely going to cost me less importing it than it will to buy it off the shelf here anyway. I tend not to return software even if it is a turkey. Nascar Heat wasn't meant to be released here either, but I've seen copies scattered around, perhaps the same will occur with N4. Cheers, Rod.

I hope that Sierra sales suffer because of their isolationist attitude. This modern trend towards HAVING to buy something on-line, with a credit card, pisses me off well-and-truly. I am fed up with paying a premium (interest charges) because I cannot buy something over the counter for cash. May the bean counters at Sierra choke to death on their caf� latt�s. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Thomas Engel <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:40:36 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > But then it seems that more and more online stores have adopted a > 'no delivery outside of USA' policy over the last years. Or to be more precise, > it seems almost all acknowledge those pesky 'Not for sale outside of US' > markings on the packages these days. So, which are those online stores > that will ship US versions to Europe regardless ? Any hints ? > > Thomas > >

Perhaps the exchange rate is good? -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Jan Loebzien <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On 10 Jan 2001 16:13:06 +0100, [email hidden] (Olav K. > Malmin) wrote: > > >According to High Gear, NASCAR 4 will only be released in North > >America and Germany (!). > > Which is at least one step better than NH. :-) > But why in the world Germany? They probably have done their > research, but I'm not aware of a NASCAR following over here. > And the sporadic coverage on EuroSport is the same for every- > one on this continent ... > > > Jan

"Graphical location" Ron. What's that...higher than 256 colours but less than True Colour 32 bit? :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Ron Ayton <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c07b50$6373afa0$ee4336cb@ronayton... > > > > > Hi, > I think the response may have been a little different if you lived > outside the USA/Canada.. > Down here in OZ, we get bloody sick of being left out of everything, > simply because of our graphical location.

LOL Bruce, shows you how frustrated i was when i wrote that, especially as Australia has one of the biggest fan bases of Oval series racing, including NASCAR, outside of the USA.. Then you get guys saying, "buy it on the internet".. Yet the same guys were screaming blue murder when GP3 wasn't released in the states and THEY had to buy it on the internet.. I am not a Warez user, (never have been) but sometimes, just sometimes, the idiots that make these pathetic decisions tend to push people to the brink of legality. Cheers, Ron ps.. as a true blue Ozzie, it has to be "true colour" <G> Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in article <[email hidden]>... > "Graphical location" Ron. > > What's that...higher than 256 colours but less than True Colour 32bit?

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> > :-) > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > ---------------------------

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> >"Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote > > I know that some americans are going to say : "Here's for GP3, GP500 > > and so on", which I understand, but why is it so difficult to release > > something world wide. Haven't they heard about the Internet ? > > I think it's more "Haven't you heard about the internet ?". There is plenty > of online gaming stores where you will be able to buy Nascar Racing 4. The > days of saying "I can't buy it because I'm in a foreign country" are over.

Of course, the only bad thing about that is that the stupid norwegian government is charging 23 % tax + a $12 fee on private import. This also goes for ordering DVD's from USA. Which means that it will cost about $70 :( But maybe it is possible to order it from amazon.com next time me and some co-workes order a bucketload of DVD's. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in <oF476.79647$[email hidden]>:

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>>"Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote >> I know that some americans are going to say : "Here's for GP3, GP500 >> and so on", which I understand, but why is it so difficult to release >> something world wide. Haven't they heard about the Internet ? > >I think it's more "Haven't you heard about the internet ?". There is >plenty of online gaming stores where you will be able to buy Nascar >Racing 4. The days of saying "I can't buy it because I'm in a foreign >country" are over. > > >

Good point, but not everyone has got credit cards (like me), so i cannot order stuff online. Sigh.... - brian

In article <[email hidden]>, Jan Loebzien <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On 10 Jan 2001 16:13:06 +0100, [email hidden] (Olav K. >Malmin) wrote: > >>According to High Gear, NASCAR 4 will only be released in North >>America and Germany (!). > >Which is at least one step better than NH. :-) >But why in the world Germany? They probably have done their >research, but I'm not aware of a NASCAR following over here. >And the sporadic coverage on EuroSport is the same for every- >one on this continent ... > > >Jan

Germany is the 2nd biggest PC gaming market outside the US. Z. Please remove my_pants when replying.

>"Ron Ayton" <[email hidden]> > Then you get guys saying, "buy it on the internet".. > Yet the same guys were screaming blue murder when GP3 wasn't released > in the states and THEY had to buy it on the internet.. I was one of those person (in fact the only one who said that), yet I didn't have to buy it on the Internet, I just went to the store and bought it unfortunately. It's a shame Crammond got 45$ out of my pocket. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

>"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > I hope that Sierra sales suffer because of their isolationist attitude. Bah stop being martyred Bruce. It's just normal that you'll always find a person who will want a version of any sort of title released in his country, especially when the gaming business creates non-international shipping of it's software. The same goes for about any form of Entertainment. People all around the world whine that their favorite group hasn't yet released their newest CD in their country, or that the new Star Wars movie was released many months after North America (there is a big tendency so that Episode II becomes the first movie in history to be released the say day throughout the world). So see the trend is slowly growing, it just takes time Bruce. Calm down if you want you will have Nascar Racing 4 the same day as everybody else. Someday people from Chile and Djibouti will complain that X company doesn't release Y title in their country. It's just a matter of expanding their market. It's not because it's not done that they intend it that way. You just can't "internationalise" your business simply like that. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> >"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > > I hope that Sierra sales suffer because of their isolationist attitude. > > > Bah stop being martyred Bruce. It's just normal that you'll always find a > person who will want a version of any sort of title released in his country, > especially when the gaming business creates non-international shipping of > it's software. The same goes for about any form of Entertainment. People > all around the world whine that their favorite group hasn't yet released > their newest CD in their country, or that the new Star Wars movie was > released many months after North America (there is a big tendency so that > Episode II becomes the first movie in history to be released the say day > throughout the world). So see the trend is slowly growing, it just takes > time Bruce. Calm down if you want you will have Nascar Racing 4 the same > day as everybody else.

Wasn't James Bond The World is not Enough relesed all around the world on the same day ? Anyway, it is a good think that the moviemakers finally learn that to fight DVD's imports to europe they have to relese the movies sooner, not introducing a stupid region system every player on the market ignores. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

>This modern trend towards HAVING to buy something on-line, with a credit >card, pisses me off well-and-truly. >I am fed up with paying a premium (interest charges) because I cannot buy >something over the counter for cash. Pssst. This is what a debit card is for. No interest. Accepted anywhere credit cards are accepted. I haven't used a credit card in three years now and haven't missed it all. And I've bought a ton of stuff on-line. Dave Casey Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

Make that 24% tax now Olav... They upped it this year :-( Ed_ (why do I live here???) "Olav K. Malmin" writes:

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> > Of course, the only bad thing about that is that the stupid norwegian > government is charging 23 % tax + a $12 fee on private import. This > also goes for ordering DVD's from USA. Which means that it will cost > about $70 :( But maybe it is possible to order it from amazon.com > next time me and some co-workes order a bucketload of DVD's. > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove .spam when replying

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:08:04 +1100, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Perhaps the exchange rate is good? Hehe, that's a good explanation. But then, it's the same in whole EuroLand (as far as overseas business goes, I think). Jan

On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:31:55 GMT, [email hidden] (Zonky) wrote: >Germany is the 2nd biggest PC gaming market outside the US. Actually it's the biggest gaming market outside of the US, i.e the second biggest in the world. :-). Still that didn't keep Hasblo/Microprose from *not* selling NH over here, even though the latter certainly had more mass market appeal than N4. Jan

"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> writes: > Make that 24% tax now Olav... > > They upped it this year :-( > > Ed_ > (why do I live here???) Good question :) There are a lot of things in this country that are not as they should be, but I think you find that in most countries. There's still heaps of positives though, and the skiing season is finally here :)

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> > "Olav K. Malmin" writes: > > > > Of course, the only bad thing about that is that the stupid norwegian > > government is charging 23 % tax + a $12 fee on private import. This > > also goes for ordering DVD's from USA. Which means that it will cost > > about $70 :( But maybe it is possible to order it from amazon.com > > next time me and some co-workes order a bucketload of DVD's. > > > > -- > > Olav K. Malmin > > remove .spam when replying > >

-- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

>Pssst. This is what a debit card is for. No interest. Accepted anywhere >credit cards are accepted. I haven't used a credit card in three years now >and haven't missed it all. And I've bought a ton of stuff on-line. Much less consumer protection with a debit card. I love mine, but never use it online. Rather, I use my credit cards and pay them off immediately. -Tim

[email hidden] (The Enigmatic One) writes:

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> >Pssst. This is what a debit card is for. No interest. Accepted anywhere > >credit cards are accepted. I haven't used a credit card in three years now > >and haven't missed it all. And I've bought a ton of stuff on-line. > > Much less consumer protection with a debit card. I love mine, but > never use it online. Rather, I use my credit cards and pay them off > immediately.

Things works different around the world it seems. I have no interest rates on my credit card, unless i forget (or cant afford:) to pay the bill. I feel perfectly safe using it on the net because I get a detailed list of the transactions along with the bill each month. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

You don't pay interest on a credit card if you pay your balance off in full at the end of the month. Get a card with no annual fee and you're set. Unless of course you have bad or no credit. Scott B. Husted "Profit" Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3a5d5a5c$[email hidden]...

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> I hope that Sierra sales suffer because of their isolationist attitude. > > This modern trend towards HAVING to buy something on-line, with a credit > card, pisses me off well-and-truly. > I am fed up with paying a premium (interest charges) because I cannot buy > something over the counter for cash. > > May the bean counters at Sierra choke to death on their caf� latt�s. > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > Thomas Engel <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:40:36 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > > > > But then it seems that more and more online stores have adopted a > > 'no delivery outside of USA' policy over the last years. Or to be more > precise, > > it seems almost all acknowledge those pesky 'Not for sale outside of US' > > markings on the packages these days. So, which are those online stores > > that will ship US versions to Europe regardless ? Any hints ? > > > > Thomas > > > > > >

I'd be more upset that I actually bought GP3 at all rather than how I purchased it ;) Scott B. Husted "Profit" Ron Ayton <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c07ba3$abbdc400$754336cb@ronayton...

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> LOL Bruce, shows you how frustrated i was when i wrote that, > especially as Australia has one of the biggest fan bases of Oval series > racing, including NASCAR, outside of the USA.. > > Then you get guys saying, "buy it on the internet".. > Yet the same guys were screaming blue murder when GP3 wasn't released > in the states and THEY had to buy it on the internet.. > > I am not a Warez user, (never have been) but sometimes, just > sometimes, the idiots that make these pathetic decisions tend to push > people to the brink of legality. > > Cheers, > Ron > > ps.. as a true blue Ozzie, it has to be "true colour" <G> > > > Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in article > <[email hidden]>... > > "Graphical location" Ron. > > > > What's that...higher than 256 colours but less than True Colour 32 > bit? > > > > :-) > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- >

>Things works different around the world it seems. I have no interest >rates on my credit card, unless i forget (or cant afford:) to pay the >bill. > >I feel perfectly safe using it on the net because I get a detailed >list of the transactions along with the bill each month. I think you misunderstood. With a credit card, you have some basic protections against fraud that don't apply to a debit card. Thus, it is much saner to use a credit card to purchase online, or any large purchase, really, than a debit card. -Tim

In article <3a5d5a5c$[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> writes: >I hope that Sierra sales suffer because of their isolationist attitude. > >This modern trend towards HAVING to buy something on-line, with a credit >card, pisses me off well-and-truly. >I am fed up with paying a premium (interest charges) because I cannot buy >something over the counter for cash. If you pay the card off every month, there's no interest...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> On 10 Jan 2001 16:13:06 +0100, [email hidden] (Olav K. > Malmin) wrote: > > >According to High Gear, NASCAR 4 will only be released in North > >America and Germany (!). > > Which is at least one step better than NH. :-) > But why in the world Germany? They probably have done their > research, but I'm not aware of a NASCAR following over here. > And the sporadic coverage on EuroSport is the same for every- > one on this continent ... > > > Jan >

Isn't Germany where Gerhard Lingenberg is from? He's the genious who gave us the Brickyard in NASCAR 2 and NASCAR 3. It's only right that they release it in Germany if it they could only release it in the US and one other country.<g>

Haven't you heard of courier charges??! ;-) I managed to get N3 when I was over in the states but I was back in the UK when the N3 expansion came out. I ended up paying more in courier, postage and packing than I did for the game... If US based games like Dirt Track Racing Sprint Cars (which have NO tv coverage / following in the UK), can make it on to British shelves why not N4? ymenard wrote:

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> >"Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote > > I know that some americans are going to say : "Here's for GP3, GP500 > > and so on", which I understand, but why is it so difficult to release > > something world wide. Haven't they heard about the Internet ? > > I think it's more "Haven't you heard about the internet ?". There is plenty > of online gaming stores where you will be able to buy Nascar Racing 4. The > days of saying "I can't buy it because I'm in a foreign country" are over. > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

(snip) > ps.. as a true blue Ozzie, it has to be "true colour" <G>(unsnip) Very *true*! :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Ron Ayton <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:01c07ba3$abbdc400$754336cb@ronayton... > LOL Bruce, shows you how frustrated i was when i wrote that, > especially as Australia has one of the biggest fan bases of Oval series > racing, including NASCAR, outside of the USA..

(snip) (unsnip) Very *true*! :-) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. ---------------------------

Thanks SO much for your lecture, Frank. That's helped immensely. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IDf76.84005$[email hidden]... > >"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > > I hope that Sierra sales suffer because of their isolationist attitude. > > > Bah stop being martyred Bruce. It's just normal that you'll always find a > person who will want a version of any sort of title released in his country, > especially when the gaming business creates non-international shipping of > it's software. The same goes for about any form of Entertainment. People > all around the world whine that their favorite group hasn't yet released > their newest CD in their country, or that the new Star Wars movie was > released many months after North America (there is a big tendency so that > Episode II becomes the first movie in history to be released the say day > throughout the world). So see the trend is slowly growing, it just takes > time Bruce. Calm down if you want you will have Nascar Racing 4 the same > day as everybody else. > > Someday people from Chile and Djibouti will complain that X company doesn't > release Y title in their country. It's just a matter of expanding their > market. It's not because it's not done that they intend it that way. You > just can't "internationalise" your business simply like that. > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > >

You've bought *internationally* using a debit card? -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Dave Casey <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NGj76.4818$[email hidden]... > >This modern trend towards HAVING to buy something on-line, with a credit > >card, pisses me off well-and-truly. > >I am fed up with paying a premium (interest charges) because I cannot buy > >something over the counter for cash. > > Pssst. This is what a debit card is for. No interest. Accepted anywhere > credit cards are accepted. I haven't used a credit card in three years now > and haven't missed it all. And I've bought a ton of stuff on-line. > > > Dave Casey > Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4) > www.teamcasey.net > www.lvkc.com > www.buycoolcrap.com

I've been around credit cards since 1972, Scott, so the ins-and-outs of the system are not new to me. Even with immediate payment there is a charge from the companies involved simply for the transaction. It is just an overall objection that I have to modern banking practices where they charge for EVERY damn activity that the so-called customer engages in. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Scott B. Husted <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sHn76.14481$[email hidden]... > You don't pay interest on a credit card if you pay your balance off in full > at the end of the month. Get a card with no annual fee and you're set. > Unless of course you have bad or no credit. > > Scott B. Husted > "Profit" > > Bruce Kennewell <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3a5d5a5c$[email hidden]... > > I hope that Sierra sales suffer because of their isolationist attitude. > > > > This modern trend towards HAVING to buy something on-line, with a credit > > card, pisses me off well-and-truly. > > I am fed up with paying a premium (interest charges) because I cannot buy > > something over the counter for cash. > > > > May the bean counters at Sierra choke to death on their caf� latt�s. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bruce Kennewell, > > Canberra, Australia. > > --------------------------- > > > > Thomas Engel <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:40:36 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > But then it seems that more and more online stores have adopted a > > > 'no delivery outside of USA' policy over the last years. Or to be more > > precise, > > > it seems almost all acknowledge those pesky 'Not for sale outside of US' > > > markings on the packages these days. So, which are those online stores > > > that will ship US versions to Europe regardless ? Any hints ? > > > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > > > >

No INTEREST, but still a transaction charge incorporated into my banking costs. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <3a5d5a5c$[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I hope that Sierra sales suffer because of their isolationist attitude. > > > >This modern trend towards HAVING to buy something on-line, with a credit > >card, pisses me off well-and-truly. > >I am fed up with paying a premium (interest charges) because I cannot buy > >something over the counter for cash. > > If you pay the card off every month, there's no interest...<g> > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I bought a game on Ebay for my son, from a seller in the USA. The POSTAGE cost more than the bloody game! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- J Moore <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Haven't you heard of courier charges??! ;-) > > I managed to get N3 when I was over in the states but I was back in the UK when > the N3 expansion came out. I ended up paying more in courier, postage and > packing than I did for the game... > > If US based games like Dirt Track Racing Sprint Cars (which have NO tv coverage > / following in the UK), can make it on to British shelves why not N4? > > ymenard wrote: > > > >"Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > I know that some americans are going to say : "Here's for GP3, GP500 > > > and so on", which I understand, but why is it so difficult to release > > > something world wide. Haven't they heard about the Internet ? > > > > I think it's more "Haven't you heard about the internet ?". There is plenty > > of online gaming stores where you will be able to buy Nascar Racing 4. The > > days of saying "I can't buy it because I'm in a foreign country" are over. > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. >

In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (23 lines)

>No INTEREST, but still a transaction charge incorporated into my banking >costs. > >-- >Regards, >Bruce Kennewell, >Canberra, Australia. >--------------------------- > >EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> In article <3a5d5a5c$[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" >> <[email hidden]> writes: >> >> >I hope that Sierra sales suffer because of their isolationist attitude. >> > >> >This modern trend towards HAVING to buy something on-line, with a credit >> >card, pisses me off well-and-truly. >> >I am fed up with paying a premium (interest charges) because I cannot buy >> >something over the counter for cash. >> >> If you pay the card off every month, there's no interest...<g> >>

Really? IS that from the merchant or from your credit card issuer? I don't have that problem, but then again, I'm in the US. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > If US based games like Dirt Track Racing Sprint Cars (which have NO tv coverage > / following in the UK), can make it on to British shelves why not N4? Because it was coded in Australia? ;) Cheers, Rod.

The merchant is charged by the bank for EACH credit and debit card transaction...and soooooo the merchant passes the 'hidden' cost onto you in the form of higher prices...it's the AMERICAN way.. dave henrie (born in the usa) "> Really? IS that from the merchant or from your credit card issuer? I don't > have that problem, but then again, I'm in the US. > > Eldred

>You've bought *internationally* using a debit card? > >> Pssst. This is what a debit card is for. No interest. Accepted anywhere >> credit cards are accepted. I haven't used a credit card in three years >> now and haven't missed it all. And I've bought a ton of stuff on-line. As a matter of fact, I have. I've bought from Canada, Britain and Italy. My debit card, as with most of them, contains a MasterCard logo on it. I can use it anywhere that accepts MasterCard. Now, you have to remember, this is a debit card, not an ATM card. These are two different kinds of animals. The debit card will do everything an ATM card will do but, an ATM card will not do everything a debit card will. You have to realize, for the past four years I've taken a "cash only" stance with my spending and have found that it's the only way to go. If I don't have the cash in the checking account to back up a purchase with the debit card, I don't make it. I now have more money in savings and retirement accounts and more spendable cash than I ever did during the first 38 years of my life. It's the only way to go and if anyone tells you different, they're lying through their teeth to you. Dave Casey Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

Credit card issuer/bank. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> > writes: > > >No INTEREST, but still a transaction charge incorporated into my banking > >costs. > > Really? IS that from the merchant or from your credit card issuer? I don't > have that problem, but then again, I'm in the US. > > Eldred > --

Just USING the card incurs a maintenance/account keeping cost. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Really? IS that from the merchant or from your credit card issuer? I don't > have that problem, but then again, I'm in the US. >

But David, doesn't it "cost" you for the use of this card? Isn't it simply another service offered by your bank (or finance house) for which you pay something? This is my whole point.....not so much whether the card is Amex or Visa or an ATM card, but the fact that, unless I have cash in my pocket (which, incidentally, has cost me either AUS$2-50 or AUS$0.50 to get from the bank, depending on whether it was an over-the-counter transaction or at their ATM!) then I am going to be paying SOMETHING in addition to the retail price. THAT'S what peeves me! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Dave Casey <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c6X76.4008$[email hidden]... > > As a matter of fact, I have. I've bought from Canada, Britain and Italy. My > debit card, as with most of them, contains a MasterCard logo on it. I can use > it anywhere that accepts MasterCard. Now, you have to remember, this is a > debit card, not an ATM card. These are two different kinds of animals. The > debit card will do everything an ATM card will do but, an ATM card will not do > everything a debit card will. > > You have to realize, for the past four years I've taken a "cash only" stance > with my spending and have found that it's the only way to go. If I don't have > the cash in the checking account to back up a purchase with the debit card, I > don't make it. I now have more money in savings and retirement accounts and > more spendable cash than I ever did during the first 38 years of my life. > It's the only way to go and if anyone tells you different, they're lying > through their teeth to you. > > > Dave Casey > Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4) > www.teamcasey.net > www.lvkc.com > www.buycoolcrap.com

Those banking charges sound pretty harsh Bruce. My account carries a monthly flat fee of about $2.10 US no matter how frequently I use my cards, use online banking or show up at the counter. FWIW, my VISA card is a service my bank offers at no extra cost over my normal account. I must point out one's yearly income must exceed a certain amount to qualify for the formula, i.e. there must be little danger of one not being able to pay ones credit card bills, but I can assure you I'm no Rockefeller (everyone with a steady job can benifit). The cost of the VISA transaction comes out of the retailers margin, so in my case it's benificial. Not to mention that, because my account is only debited once a month, if I time my purchase right, I can cop a month's extra interests on my money (low rate on chequeing<sp?> account, but still) while already having started to use the product. ;-) I now make all my gaming, book and music purchases online. I enjoy free shipping from suppliers in Belgium and avoid having to face traffic, finding a parking space for the car and queuing to pay for my purchase (one of my pet hates). Call me a convenience junkie. ;-) What can be a pain in the behind when ordering abroad /overseas (apart from the shipping&handling charges) is the government slapping import tax and VAT on your private purchase when it enters the country. The rules as to when this is actually applicable are outdated/surpassed by modern technology and therefore, in todays world, very vague and open to interpretation / arbitrariness of the person checking in the parcel. Jan. =--- Bruce Kennewell wrote... > But David, doesn't it "cost" you for the use of this card?

In article <c6X76.4008$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Dave Casey) writes:

Quoted text (9 lines)

>You have to realize, for the past four years I've taken a "cash only" stance >with my spending and have found that it's the only way to go. If I don't >have >the cash in the checking account to back up a purchase with the debit card, I > >don't make it. I now have more money in savings and retirement accounts and >more spendable cash than I ever did during the first 38 years of my life. >It's the only way to go and if anyone tells you different, they're lying >through their teeth to you.

Assuming this statement means you're debt-free, how long did it take you? Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <StP76.258553$[email hidden]>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (11 lines)

> The merchant is charged by the bank for EACH credit and debit card >transaction...and soooooo the merchant passes the 'hidden' cost onto you >in the form of higher prices...it's the AMERICAN way.. >dave henrie >(born in the usa) > >"> Really? IS that from the merchant or from your credit card issuer? I >don't >> have that problem, but then again, I'm in the US. >> >> Eldred

Well, if that's the case, then it wouldn't matter if you paid CASH. I mean, when I see something marked $19.99 in the store, the price doesn't suddenly jump to $20.40 just because I whip out a credit card... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Imagine how much Sierra would save on support-costs if they wouldn't produce the game at all :-) -- Christoph Monig "It takes two to lie - one to lie and one to listen" Homer (Simpson, that is) Dave Henrie wrote: > What you are seeing is NOT Papyrus but Sierra/havas. They have an > active business in Germany, not so in England etc. Now the biggest cost > for a > software product other than the costs of programming is........ > anyone? > anyone? > Buehler? > The biggest cost for a company selling software is SUPPORT. > Why do you think they coded the N3 patch so we couldn't see the old ICR2 > tracks? To save money. Imagine the Sierra help line getting swamped by > callers who want to race at Mid Ohio...but they can't find that track on > the > N3 cd. Imagine all those Geforce/Tnt users calling up the support lines > cuz the > ICR2 tracks won't work in d3d. > Sierra has made a cost-analysis decision that frankly sucks...but they > will > probably save more money in support funding they they would have made in > sales. > And yes....we yanks will help with those unfortunates who can't get > it.... > dave henrie

>"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > Thanks SO much for your lecture, Frank. > That's helped immensely. Your welcome Bruce, I'm happy you have finally seen the light <G> You are no martyr. > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote > > Bah stop being martyred Bruce. It's just normal that you'll always finda > > person who will want a version of any sort of title released in his > country, > > especially when the gaming business creates non-international shippingof > > it's software. The same goes for about any form of Entertainment.People > > all around the world whine that their favorite group hasn't yet released > > their newest CD in their country, or that the new Star Wars movie was > > released many months after North America (there is a big tendency sothat > > Episode II becomes the first movie in history to be released the say day > > throughout the world). So see the trend is slowly growing, it justtakes > > time Bruce. Calm down if you want you will have Nascar Racing 4 thesame > > day as everybody else. > > > > Someday people from Chile and Djibouti will complain that X company > doesn't > > release Y title in their country. It's just a matter of expanding their > > market. It's not because it's not done that they intend it that way.You > > just can't "internationalise" your business simply like that. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Australian banks (of which there are only about five major concerns) are generally recognised as being the greediest in the entire Universe. I do not exaggerate; they make OBSCENE profits and yet charge ridiculous amounts to their customers. If I transact a withdrawal over the counter, with another human, I pay $2-50 per transaction. If I don't go into the bank, but use their ATM on the wall outside, I pay 50 cents for the same transaction and I get the same receipt as that handed to me by the teller. If I use a generic ATM that happens to handle my bank's ATM card, I will pay (approx) $3-75 per transaction. If I make more than x number of transactions per month, I pay a premium. And so it goes on.....with all these big banks doing pretty much the same thing. There is a big backlash in Oz against these corporate hyenas but, unfortunately, their competition is pretty thin on the ground. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Those banking charges sound pretty harsh Bruce. My account carries a monthly > flat fee of about $2.10 US no matter how frequently I use my cards, use > online banking or show up at the counter. > > FWIW, my VISA card is a service my bank offers at no extra cost over my > normal account. I must point out one's yearly income must exceed a certain > amount to qualify for the formula, i.e. there must be little danger of one > not being able to pay ones credit card bills, but I can assure you I'm no > Rockefeller (everyone with a steady job can benifit). The cost of the VISA > transaction comes out of the retailers margin, so in my case it's > benificial. Not to mention that, because my account is only debited once a > month, if I time my purchase right, I can cop a month's extra interests on > my money (low rate on chequeing<sp?> account, but still) while already > having started to use the product. ;-) > > I now make all my gaming, book and music purchases online. I enjoy free > shipping from suppliers in Belgium and avoid having to face traffic, finding > a parking space for the car and queuing to pay for my purchase (one of my > pet hates). Call me a convenience junkie. ;-) > > What can be a pain in the behind when ordering abroad /overseas (apart from > the shipping&handling charges) is the government slapping import tax and VAT > on your private purchase when it enters the country. The rules as to when > this is actually applicable are outdated/surpassed by modern technology and > therefore, in todays world, very vague and open to interpretation / > arbitrariness of the person checking in the parcel. > > Jan. > =--- > Bruce Kennewell wrote... > > But David, doesn't it "cost" you for the use of this card? > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (13 lines)

>But David, doesn't it "cost" you for the use of this card? Isn't it simply >another service offered by your bank (or finance house) for which you pay >something? > >This is my whole point.....not so much whether the card is Amex or Visa or >an ATM card, but the fact that, unless I have cash in my pocket (which, >incidentally, has cost me either AUS$2-50 or AUS$0.50 to get from the bank, >depending on whether it was an over-the-counter transaction or at their >ATM!) then I am going to be paying SOMETHING in addition to the retail >price. > >THAT'S what peeves me! >

Actually, if I paid off my balance every month, using my VISA credit card would be cheaper than using my VISA bank card. The bank card *would* cost me transaction fees. The credit card wouldn't, and there wouldn't be any interest either. Bruce, if your credit card company charges you an *extra* fee even when you pay off the balance every month, you should be able to find one that doesn't. Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

(Pssst! Eldred....it USED to.) At one stage (about 1990, I think) we would charge a premium, quite legally, for those people who used a credit card in preference to cash or even, where the customer was known, personal cheque. All that WE as the retailer were doing was passing what the CC company charged us on to the customer. Then things went stupid, political correctness time arrived and it was considered descriminatory to differentiate between modes of payment. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <StP76.258553$[email hidden]>, "Dave Henrie" > > Well, if that's the case, then it wouldn't matter if you paid CASH. I mean, > when I see something marked $19.99 in the store, the price doesn't suddenly > jump to $20.40 just because I whip out a credit card... >

Probably, but I use it so rarely that I honestly can't be bothered. It's the normal bank charges which annoy me more than anything...and we can't circumvent using a "bank"....we MUST have a bank account into which our monthly salary can be deposited (that's a requirement of my employment, not a Government statute!) and a "bank" account is one of the things that we must have in order to satisfy the requirements of the Australian Tax Office. Catch-22 is alive and well in our land, believe me! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Actually, if I paid off my balance every month, using my VISA credit card would > be cheaper than using my VISA bank card. The bank card *would* cost me > transaction fees. The credit card wouldn't, and there wouldn't be any interest > either. Bruce, if your credit card company charges you an *extra* fee even > when you pay off the balance every month, you should be able to find one that > doesn't.

Quoted text (8 lines)

>This is my whole point.....not so much whether the card is Amex or Visa or >an ATM card, but the fact that, unless I have cash in my pocket (which, >incidentally, has cost me either AUS$2-50 or AUS$0.50 to get from the bank, >depending on whether it was an over-the-counter transaction or at their >ATM!) then I am going to be paying SOMETHING in addition to the retail >price. > >THAT'S what peeves me!

Right. Forget the money. Start bartering. Get rid of that overhead really quick. -Tim

>Then things went stupid, political correctness time arrived and it was >considered descriminatory to differentiate between modes of payment. Political correctness? Man, you are something. A honest-to-god, died-in-the-wool reactionary bigot, aren't you? How exactly is making a choice based upon the market, based upon realizing that it makes financial sense to do so, a "politically correct" move? Ah, fuck it. No sense arguing with one so dense. In your mind, if it shakes up your tiny worldview at all, it's obviously both evil and PC, so... -Tim

>But David, doesn't it "cost" you for the use of this card? Isn't it simply >another service offered by your bank (or finance house) for which you pay >something? I pay $5.00 a month for the Wells Fargo checking account the card is attached to. I use this account to pay all of my bills, so the "cost" is more than made up for in saved postage and time spent writing checks the old fashioned way. And I'm sure the majority of people reading this pay a monthly fee and those that don't probably have just a basic checking account. So, yes there is a cost but, you get what you pay for. Dave Casey Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

If a retailer advises a potential customer that a surcharge of 3% will apply for credit card transactions and the customer says "Thanks, but no thanks...I'll take my business elsewhere" then the only person (possibly) losing is the retailer. It is "politically correct" to introduce legislation that says "Thou (the retailer) shalt not determine your method of payment for goods or services....Big Brother will do it for you". THAT is what I meant by "political correctness"....the inability for the trader to determine how HE wants to be paid for his goods or services. It actually worked out quite well.......for a while. We (and by 'we' I mean a whole host of retailer businesses) turned it around and gave discounts for cash transactions! However, even THAT was legislated into illegality. "Honest-to-God died in the wool reactionary bigot"? Well, I guess that if I fit your description of the term, I must be! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- The Enigmatic One <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3o986.1670$[email hidden]... > > >Then things went stupid, political correctness time arrived and it was > >considered descriminatory to differentiate between modes of payment. > > Political correctness? Man, you are something. A honest-to-god, > died-in-the-wool reactionary bigot, aren't you? > > How exactly is making a choice based upon the market, based upon > realizing that it makes financial sense to do so, a "politically correct" move? > > Ah, fuck it. No sense arguing with one so dense. In your mind, if it > shakes up your tiny worldview at all, it's obviously both evil and PC, so... > > > -Tim >

In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>(Pssst! Eldred....it USED to.) >At one stage (about 1990, I think) we would charge a premium, quite legally, >for those people who used a credit card in preference to cash or even, where >the customer was known, personal cheque. All that WE as the retailer were >doing was passing what the CC company charged us on to the customer. > >Then things went stupid, political correctness time arrived and it was >considered descriminatory to differentiate between modes of payment.

Ok, so it doesn't cost more now to use a CC. Problem solved!<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (9 lines)

>Probably, but I use it so rarely that I honestly can't be bothered. > >It's the normal bank charges which annoy me more than anything...and we >can't circumvent using a "bank"....we MUST have a bank account into which >our monthly salary can be deposited (that's a requirement of my employment, >not a Government statute!) and a "bank" account is one of the things that we >must have in order to satisfy the requirements of the Australian Tax Office. > >Catch-22 is alive and well in our land, believe me!

Ok, well...that sucks. The thing I hate about MY bank is this:Several branches have replaced the tellers inside with ATM machines. That's 'presumably' to save money, right? No - they charge me $1.50 for any ATM transaction(used to be free) whether it's a deposit or withdrawal. So, if they're saving money by not having live tellers, why do they gouge me on ATM(and EFT) fees...? Methinks they have to make enough money to pay for the new ballpark here...(Comerica Park). :( Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I'm old enought to remember when ATMs were first introduced here and my memory is certainly sharp enough to recall the hype that these auto-tellers would actually REDUCE your banking costs, Mr. & Mrs. Customer! -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> > writes: > > > Ok, well...that sucks. The thing I hate about MY bank is this:Several branches > have replaced the tellers inside with ATM machines. That's 'presumably' to > save money, right? No - they charge me $1.50 for any ATM transaction(used to > be free) whether it's a deposit or withdrawal. So, if they're saving money by > not having live tellers, why do they gouge me on ATM(and EFT) fees...? > Methinks they have to make enough money to pay for the new ballpark > here...(Comerica Park). :( > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

No.....because we just jacked up all the prices of goods (software/harware) and services (maintenance/upgrades) fro 3% to 5% to compensate. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> > writes: > > Ok, so it doesn't cost more now to use a CC. Problem solved!<g> > > Eldred > -- > Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <3a620dd7$[email hidden]>, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> writes: >No.....because we just jacked up all the prices of goods (software/harware) >and services (maintenance/upgrades) fro 3% to 5% to compensate. So like I said, now the price is the same for cash or credit. So you can use the CC for the convenience, and pay it off each month...<g> Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL F1 hcp. +28.80...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (EldredP) writes:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>>At one stage (about 1990, I think) we would charge a premium, quite legally, >>for those people who used a credit card in preference to cash or even, where >>the customer was known, personal cheque. All that WE as the retailer were >>doing was passing what the CC company charged us on to the customer. >> >>Then things went stupid, political correctness time arrived and it was >>considered descriminatory to differentiate between modes of payment. > >Ok, so it doesn't cost more now to use a CC. Problem solved!<g> >

Problem is, now the cost of processing credit purchases is paid by evyone, even if you use cash. Old system was much more fair. Don McCorkle

EldredP wrote: > > Well, if that's the case, then it wouldn't matter if you paid CASH. I mean, > when I see something marked $19.99 in the store, the price doesn't suddenly > jump to $20.40 just because I whip out a credit card... No, because as a retailer I have already calculated that cost into the price, so because of this, you pay for that service whether you pay cash or with a credit card.... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://members.prestige.net/bttw/teammirage/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Yeah! I'm all for that! But not just the bean counters please, I hope Kaemmers the first to go followed immediately by the entire software department. And then the asswipes who package all that "Let me search your machine and then the net for Sierra products." garbage that installs itself all over the desktop and throughout the registry. But mostly Kaemmer. Then we could get back to driving quality sims. That feel like cars.... (Hey Bruce! Howzzit bruddah? Been a while.) -- Mark Jeangerard [email hidden] Administrator GPVL F2 Division http://home.att.net/~m.jeangerard/GPVLF2 "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3a5d5a5c$[email hidden]... > I hope that Sierra sales suffer because of their isolationist attitude. > > This modern trend towards HAVING to buy something on-line, with a credit > card, pisses me off well-and-truly. > I am fed up with paying a premium (interest charges) because I cannot buy > something over the counter for cash. > > May the bean counters at Sierra choke to death on their caf� latt�s. > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > Thomas Engel <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:40:36 GMT, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > > > > But then it seems that more and more online stores have adopted a > > 'no delivery outside of USA' policy over the last years. Or to be more > precise, > > it seems almost all acknowledge those pesky 'Not for sale outside of US' > > markings on the packages these days. So, which are those online stores > > that will ship US versions to Europe regardless ? Any hints ? > > > > Thomas > > > > > >

Nascar3 and other Sierra/Papyrus titles were released here in South Africa. Now I have to pay shipping charges, VAT, and other slapped on sundry charges. Import duties and related charges for an average consumer are high enough in South Africa for me to consider them practically punitive. I can guarantee that I'll be paying a good 20+% above US consumers. For what? What was wrong with the previous distribution system? Ryan

G'day, Mark!! Happy New year to you, mate. Nice to see that you're alive and kicking. Has that Randy character got married yet, do you know? -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- mark jeangerard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:k6K86.4422$[email hidden]... > > cars.... > > (Hey Bruce! Howzzit bruddah? Been a while.) > -- > > Mark Jeangerard > [email hidden]