The cure for the N4 pull "problem"

1. Most important. Full linear steering. If your steering is unrealistically not sensitive on center you're going to have to crank in an unrealistically large correction. 2. Set tire pressures equal, left to right. Go out and set the left side pressures on your car to 2/3 the right ones. It'll pull too. Note angle of steering wheel needed to compensate for this alone. 3. Set camber and castor equal left to right. It's not as easy to experiment, but a real car will show you setting these assymetric causes pull too. 4. Set the ride height equal, left to right. Tip your car sideways and it'll pull. There'll be a residual pull since your back tires are different sizes. You could try making tire pressures and suspension settigs assymetrical the other way to compensate. BTW, number 1 is serious advice. As for the rest, don't diss papy for accurately modeling how real cars respond to all this and suggest that they make the sim unrealistic. Go play an arcade game. Papy - If you do anything about this - DON"T DO IT IN SIMULATION MODE (I _never_ shout, but...)

<bob> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> 1. Most important. Full linear steering. If your steering is > unrealistically not sensitive on center you're going to have to crank > in an unrealistically large correction. > > 2. Set tire pressures equal, left to right. Go out and set the left > side pressures on your car to 2/3 the right ones. It'll pull too. > Note angle of steering wheel needed to compensate for this alone. > > 3. Set camber and castor equal left to right. It's not as easy to > experiment, but a real car will show you setting these assymetric > causes pull too. > > 4. Set the ride height equal, left to right. Tip your car sideways > and it'll pull. > > There'll be a residual pull since your back tires are > different sizes. You could try making tire pressures and suspension > settigs assymetrical the other way to compensate. > > BTW, number 1 is serious advice. As for the rest, don't diss > papy for accurately modeling how real cars respond to all this and > suggest that they make the sim unrealistic. Go play an arcade game.

<snip> You make a good point that can apply to any sim. It can be extremely difficult to tell the difference between problems caused by a poor physics model, and problems caused by unrealistic setups, poor controllers, or poorly configured controllers!

The fact is, if you 'cure' this 'problem', they will be fudging the physics model to do so. Once you drive for a bit, and get used to it with you controller setup right, you will realise it isn't too bad. I think 'fixing' it will compromise the physics model in other ways, and I for one don't want that. Pure physics for me thanks :) James "Aubrey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8wvZ5.63356$[email hidden]...

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> > <bob> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > 1. Most important. Full linear steering. If your steering is > > unrealistically not sensitive on center you're going to have to crank > > in an unrealistically large correction. > > > > 2. Set tire pressures equal, left to right. Go out and set the left > > side pressures on your car to 2/3 the right ones. It'll pull too. > > Note angle of steering wheel needed to compensate for this alone. > > > > 3. Set camber and castor equal left to right. It's not as easy to > > experiment, but a real car will show you setting these assymetric > > causes pull too. > > > > 4. Set the ride height equal, left to right. Tip your car sideways > > and it'll pull. > > > > There'll be a residual pull since your back tires are > > different sizes. You could try making tire pressures and suspension > > settigs assymetrical the other way to compensate. > > > > BTW, number 1 is serious advice. As for the rest, don't diss > > papy for accurately modeling how real cars respond to all this and > > suggest that they make the sim unrealistic. Go play an arcade game. > <snip> > > You make a good point that can apply to any sim. It can be extremely > difficult to tell the difference between problems caused by a poor physics > model, and problems caused by unrealistic setups, poor controllers, or > poorly configured controllers! > > >

James, I think he was telling them who to make car tracks straight thru chassis adjustments in the garage. Changing the garage setup to me is not changing physics. The adjustments he mentions will make the car go thru the corners slower since Stock Cars on ovals need to be setup to just go fast and turn left. When you do that well going striaght makes the driver put a touch of steering lock to keep it going striaght. James also congrats in the GTIC Win. I know they are still tabulating, but everyone knows its yours. I am hoping that even missing the last 3 races I can still win the GT Championship. Dave James Pickard <[email hidden]> wrote in article <916bh8$cse$[email hidden]>... > The fact is, if you 'cure' this 'problem', they will be fudging thephysics > model to do so. Once you drive for a bit, and get used to it with you > controller setup right, you will realise it isn't too bad. I think'fixing' > it will compromise the physics model in other ways, and I for one don'twant

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> that. Pure physics for me thanks :) > > > James > > > "Aubrey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8wvZ5.63356$[email hidden]... > > > > <bob> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > 1. Most important. Full linear steering. If your steering is > > > unrealistically not sensitive on center you're going to have to crank > > > in an unrealistically large correction. > > > > > > 2. Set tire pressures equal, left to right. Go out and set the left > > > side pressures on your car to 2/3 the right ones. It'll pull too. > > > Note angle of steering wheel needed to compensate for this alone. > > > > > > 3. Set camber and castor equal left to right. It's not as easy to > > > experiment, but a real car will show you setting these assymetric > > > causes pull too. > > > > > > 4. Set the ride height equal, left to right. Tip your car sideways > > > and it'll pull. > > > > > > There'll be a residual pull since your back tires are > > > different sizes. You could try making tire pressures and suspension > > > settigs assymetrical the other way to compensate. > > > > > > BTW, number 1 is serious advice. As for the rest, don't diss > > > papy for accurately modeling how real cars respond to all this and > > > suggest that they make the sim unrealistic. Go play an arcade game. > > <snip> > > > > You make a good point that can apply to any sim. It can be extremely > > difficult to tell the difference between problems caused by a poor

physics

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> > model, and problems caused by unrealistic setups, poor controllers, or > > poorly configured controllers! > > > > > > > > >

Why try to fix the pull? The pull makes the car turn better in the turns. Sure you can effectively get rid of it, but then you won't go through the turns as fast... JB <bob> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> 1. Most important. Full linear steering. If your steering is > unrealistically not sensitive on center you're going to have to crank > in an unrealistically large correction. > > 2. Set tire pressures equal, left to right. Go out and set the left > side pressures on your car to 2/3 the right ones. It'll pull too. > Note angle of steering wheel needed to compensate for this alone. > > 3. Set camber and castor equal left to right. It's not as easy to > experiment, but a real car will show you setting these assymetric > causes pull too. > > 4. Set the ride height equal, left to right. Tip your car sideways > and it'll pull. > > There'll be a residual pull since your back tires are > different sizes. You could try making tire pressures and suspension > settigs assymetrical the other way to compensate. > > BTW, number 1 is serious advice. As for the rest, don't diss > papy for accurately modeling how real cars respond to all this and > suggest that they make the sim unrealistic. Go play an arcade game. > > Papy - If you do anything about this - DON"T DO IT IN > SIMULATION MODE (I _never_ shout, but...)

Right on baby, the meaning of stagger :) -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends ICQ# 74084566 "Wosco" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rEzZ5.439$[email hidden]... > Why try to fix the pull? The pull makes the car turn better in the turns. > Sure you can effectively get rid of it, but then you won't go through the > turns as fast... > > JB > > <bob> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > 1. Most important. Full linear steering. If your steering is > > unrealistically not sensitive on center you're going to have to crank > > in an unrealistically large correction. > > > > 2. Set tire pressures equal, left to right. Go out and set the left > > side pressures on your car to 2/3 the right ones. It'll pull too. > > Note angle of steering wheel needed to compensate for this alone. > > > > 3. Set camber and castor equal left to right. It's not as easy to > > experiment, but a real car will show you setting these assymetric > > causes pull too. > > > > 4. Set the ride height equal, left to right. Tip your car sideways > > and it'll pull. > > > > There'll be a residual pull since your back tires are > > different sizes. You could try making tire pressures and suspension > > settigs assymetrical the other way to compensate. > > > > BTW, number 1 is serious advice. As for the rest, don't diss > > papy for accurately modeling how real cars respond to all this and > > suggest that they make the sim unrealistic. Go play an arcade game. > > > > Papy - If you do anything about this - DON"T DO IT IN > > SIMULATION MODE (I _never_ shout, but...) > >

I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver on the front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the right when they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it... David Cook "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mjAZ5.67134$[email hidden]...

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> Right on baby, the meaning of stagger :) > > -- > Don Burnette > Dburn in N3 and Legends > ICQ# 74084566 > > "Wosco" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:rEzZ5.439$[email hidden]... > > Why try to fix the pull? The pull makes the car turn better in the

turns. > > Sure you can effectively get rid of it, but then you won't go throughthe

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> > turns as fast... > > > > JB > > > > <bob> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > 1. Most important. Full linear steering. If your steering is > > > unrealistically not sensitive on center you're going to have to crank > > > in an unrealistically large correction. > > > > > > 2. Set tire pressures equal, left to right. Go out and set the left > > > side pressures on your car to 2/3 the right ones. It'll pull too. > > > Note angle of steering wheel needed to compensate for this alone. > > > > > > 3. Set camber and castor equal left to right. It's not as easy to > > > experiment, but a real car will show you setting these assymetric > > > causes pull too. > > > > > > 4. Set the ride height equal, left to right. Tip your car sideways > > > and it'll pull. > > > > > > There'll be a residual pull since your back tires are > > > different sizes. You could try making tire pressures and suspension > > > settigs assymetrical the other way to compensate. > > > > > > BTW, number 1 is serious advice. As for the rest, don't diss > > > papy for accurately modeling how real cars respond to all this and > > > suggest that they make the sim unrealistic. Go play an arcade game. > > > > > > Papy - If you do anything about this - DON"T DO IT IN > > > SIMULATION MODE (I _never_ shout, but...) > > > > > > >

When I am going down the straight, it only takes a very small push to the right to keep the car straight, looking at the wheel and hands would probably be very hard to tell I am giving it a little right. Now, I have never driven a stock car and really can't comment as to if it's realistic. -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends ICQ# 74084566 "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CmBZ5.22331$[email hidden]... > I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver on the > front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the right when > they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it... > > David Cook > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:mjAZ5.67134$[email hidden]... > > Right on baby, the meaning of stagger :) > > > > -- > > Don Burnette > > Dburn in N3 and Legends > > ICQ# 74084566 > > > > "Wosco" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:rEzZ5.439$[email hidden]... > > > Why try to fix the pull? The pull makes the car turn better in the > turns. > > > Sure you can effectively get rid of it, but then you won't go through > the > > > turns as fast... > > > > > > JB > > > > > > <bob> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > > 1. Most important. Full linear steering. If your steering is > > > > unrealistically not sensitive on center you're going to have to crank > > > > in an unrealistically large correction. > > > > > > > > 2. Set tire pressures equal, left to right. Go out and set the left > > > > side pressures on your car to 2/3 the right ones. It'll pull too. > > > > Note angle of steering wheel needed to compensate for this alone. > > > > > > > > 3. Set camber and castor equal left to right. It's not as easy to > > > > experiment, but a real car will show you setting these assymetric > > > > causes pull too. > > > > > > > > 4. Set the ride height equal, left to right. Tip your car sideways > > > > and it'll pull. > > > > > > > > There'll be a residual pull since your back tires are > > > > different sizes. You could try making tire pressures and suspension > > > > settigs assymetrical the other way to compensate. > > > > > > > > BTW, number 1 is serious advice. As for the rest, don't diss > > > > papy for accurately modeling how real cars respond to all this and > > > > suggest that they make the sim unrealistic. Go play an arcade game. > > > > > > > > Papy - If you do anything about this - DON"T DO IT IN > > > > SIMULATION MODE (I _never_ shout, but...) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Guys, Everything I have read on Oval cars is they tend to pull to the left when going striaght. Does not matter Stock car or champ car. this is to due the setup that lets the car get thru the corners better. Dave David L. Cook <[email hidden]> wrote in article <CmBZ5.22331$[email hidden]>...

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> I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver on the > front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the right when > they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it... > > David Cook > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:mjAZ5.67134$[email hidden]... > > Right on baby, the meaning of stagger :) > > > > -- > > Don Burnette > > Dburn in N3 and Legends > > ICQ# 74084566 > > > > "Wosco" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:rEzZ5.439$[email hidden]... > > > Why try to fix the pull? The pull makes the car turn better in the > turns. > > > Sure you can effectively get rid of it, but then you won't go through > the > > > turns as fast... > > > > > > JB > > > > > > <bob> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > > 1. Most important. Full linear steering. If your steering is > > > > unrealistically not sensitive on center you're going to have to

crank > > > > in an unrealistically large correction. > > > > > > > > 2. Set tire pressures equal, left to right. Go out and set theleft

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> > > > side pressures on your car to 2/3 the right ones. It'll pull too. > > > > Note angle of steering wheel needed to compensate for this alone. > > > > > > > > 3. Set camber and castor equal left to right. It's not as easy to > > > > experiment, but a real car will show you setting these assymetric > > > > causes pull too. > > > > > > > > 4. Set the ride height equal, left to right. Tip your car

sideways > > > > and it'll pull. > > > > > > > > There'll be a residual pull since your back tires are > > > > different sizes. You could try making tire pressures andsuspension > > > > settigs assymetrical the other way to compensate. > > > > > > > > BTW, number 1 is serious advice. As for the rest, don't diss > > > > papy for accurately modeling how real cars respond to all this and > > > > suggest that they make the sim unrealistic. Go play an arcadegame.

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> > > > > > > > Papy - If you do anything about this - DON"T DO IT IN > > > > SIMULATION MODE (I _never_ shout, but...) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote > I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver on the > front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the right when > they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it... That's normal, they simply counter-balance the effect and position their wheel at an angle. Geeze HELLO???? MCFLY?? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

well, then give us the option to do that! Duh! Phillip "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IDCZ5.1676$[email hidden]...

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> >"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote > > I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver on the > > front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the right when > > they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it... > > That's normal, they simply counter-balance the effect and position their > wheel at an angle. Geeze HELLO???? MCFLY?? > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > >

>"Phillip Malphrus, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote > well, then give us the option to do that! Duh! Just do like the real boys do, calibrate your wheel at an angle. > >"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote > > That's normal, they simply counter-balance the effect and position their > > wheel at an angle. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

You mean to tell us, Frank, that before they go out on the track each NASCAR driver has to calibrate his wheel? Lord-a-mercy and Heavens-to-Betsy..........what do they use to keep their pots clean and how often do they need to change the bungee cord? -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WLEZ5.65341$[email hidden]... > > Just do like the real boys do, calibrate your wheel at an angle. > >

>"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > You mean to tell us, Frank, that before they go out on the track eachNASCAR > driver has to calibrate his wheel? Geeze bloody hell Bruce will you ever find something normal to say, instead of rubbish grandpa statements that annoy just for the sake of annoying? Calibrate was taken to make ALLUSION to the person that is using a PC, to create an association between the fact of calibrating the wheel at an angle when using a PC, to immitate the real-life drivers who will strap on their wheels at an angle. Do I need to especially write each post in simple and childish words so that your simple mind can understand the criss-crossing of the English language? Stop being a fool, unless your not even searching to do so. Pity in that case. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

AGREED! "Phillip Malphrus, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6oDZ5.67600$[email hidden]...

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> well, then give us the option to do that! Duh! > Phillip > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:IDCZ5.1676$[email hidden]... > > >"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver on

the > > > front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the rightwhen

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> > > they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it... > > > > That's normal, they simply counter-balance the effect and position their > > wheel at an angle. Geeze HELLO???? MCFLY?? > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > realise > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > >

There is a difference between strapping your wheel on at an angle and calibrating your wheel at an angle. You see that if I was a real driver and my wheel was adjusted to compensate for the stagger I would not know it by looking at the wheel. It would appear centered. Problem here is that even if I calibrate my wheel to compensate and the virtual wheel in N4 looks straight *my* wheel still isn't... David Cook "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RiGZ5.65666$[email hidden]...

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> >"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > > You mean to tell us, Frank, that before they go out on the track each > NASCAR > > driver has to calibrate his wheel? > > > Geeze bloody hell Bruce will you ever find something normal to say,

instead > of rubbish grandpa statements that annoy just for the sake of annoying? > > Calibrate was taken to make ALLUSION to the person that is using a PC, to > create an association between the fact of calibrating the wheel at anangle > when using a PC, to immitate the real-life drivers who will strap on their > wheels at an angle. > > Do I need to especially write each post in simple and childish words sothat > your simple mind can understand the criss-crossing of the Englishlanguage?

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> > > Stop being a fool, unless your not even searching to do so. Pity in that > case. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't

realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > >

Oops! Got that one bass ackward <g> What I meant to say is that if I calibrate my wheel at an angle (say 11:00) my real wheel is straight but my *virtual* wheel is still crooked. We have to compensate for lack of sensory feedback enough in racing simulations, it doesn't help to get these mixed signals from the difference in wheel position. If the real drivers are able to strap their wheels on at an angle, Papy should give us the option to do the same IMHO. David Cook "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:d7KZ5.27434$[email hidden]... > There is a difference between strapping your wheel on at an angle and > calibrating your wheel at an angle. You see that if I was a real driverand

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> my wheel was adjusted to compensate for the stagger I would not know it by > looking at the wheel. It would appear centered. > > Problem here is that even if I calibrate my wheel to compensate and the > virtual wheel in N4 looks straight *my* wheel still isn't... > > David Cook > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:RiGZ5.65666$[email hidden]... > > >"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > You mean to tell us, Frank, that before they go out on the track each > > NASCAR > > > driver has to calibrate his wheel? > > > > > > Geeze bloody hell Bruce will you ever find something normal to say, > instead > > of rubbish grandpa statements that annoy just for the sake of annoying? > > > > Calibrate was taken to make ALLUSION to the person that is using a PC,

to > > create an association between the fact of calibrating the wheel at an > angle > > when using a PC, to immitate the real-life drivers who will strap ontheir

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> > wheels at an angle. > > > > Do I need to especially write each post in simple and childish words so > that > > your simple mind can understand the criss-crossing of the English > language? > > > > > > Stop being a fool, unless your not even searching to do so. Pity in

that

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> > case. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > realise > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > >

What a wonderful response, Frank. Thanks for that incisive critiqu� (a bit of French there for you mate!) Frankie, have you ever thought of writing French-English instructions for the assembly of Chinese-manufactured folding deck-chairs? You'd be a sure thing. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RiGZ5.65666$[email hidden]... > > Geeze bloody hell Bruce will you ever find something normal to say, instead > of rubbish grandpa statements that annoy just for the sake of annoying? > > Calibrate was taken to make ALLUSION to the person that is using a PC, to > create an association between the fact of calibrating the wheel at an angle > when using a PC, to immitate the real-life drivers who will strap on their > wheels at an angle. > > Do I need to especially write each post in simple and childish words so that > your simple mind can understand the criss-crossing of the English language? > > > Stop being a fool, unless your not even searching to do so. Pity in that > case. > >

It's critique, not critiqu�. Bruce Kennewell wrote:

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> > What a wonderful response, Frank. Thanks for that incisive critiqu� (a bit > of French there for you mate!) > Frankie, have you ever thought of writing French-English instructions for > the assembly of Chinese-manufactured folding deck-chairs? You'd be a sure > thing. > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:RiGZ5.65666$[email hidden]... > > > > Geeze bloody hell Bruce will you ever find something normal to say, > instead > > of rubbish grandpa statements that annoy just for the sake of annoying? > > > > Calibrate was taken to make ALLUSION to the person that is using a PC, to > > create an association between the fact of calibrating the wheel at an > angle > > when using a PC, to immitate the real-life drivers who will strap on their > > wheels at an angle. > > > > Do I need to especially write each post in simple and childish words so > that > > your simple mind can understand the criss-crossing of the English > language? > > > > > > Stop being a fool, unless your not even searching to do so. Pity in that > > case. > > > >

>"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote > There is a difference between strapping your wheel on at an angle and > calibrating your wheel at an angle. You see that if I was a real driverand > my wheel was adjusted to compensate for the stagger I would not know it by > looking at the wheel. It would appear centered. Ok, just drill the wheel out of your steering shaft and strap it back correctly. Ok now? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

>"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> > Frankie, have you ever thought of writing French-English instructions for > the assembly of Chinese-manufactured folding deck-chairs? Your just trolling Bruce, pity on you. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

In article <KpKZ5.27492$[email hidden]>, "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> writes: >Oops! Got that one bass ackward <g> What I meant to say is that if I >calibrate my wheel at an angle (say 11:00) my real wheel is straight but my >*virtual* wheel is still crooked. We have to compensate for lack of sensory >feedback enough in racing simulations, it doesn't help to get these mixed >signals from the difference in wheel position. > So if your *virtual* wheel is at an angle, couldn't you just turn it off? I can understand how the visual feedback could screw you up.... Eldred -- Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPL hcp. +40.48 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I would encourage anyone that has just got the demo to give it some time, honestly I've gotten to where I like it, I don't even notice I'm correcting for it down the straights anymore, and it really does seem to help the turn in on the turns. I also wonder if perhaps this "pull" caused by the stagger is different on different wheel/pc setups. If I didn't like it , I would simply recalibrate and compensate for it. There must be something to it though, I mean Heat originally had it and N4 has it, they must know something. -- Don Burnette Dburn in N3 and Legends ICQ# 74084566 "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:13KZ5.27433$[email hidden]... > AGREED! > > "Phillip Malphrus, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:6oDZ5.67600$[email hidden]... > > well, then give us the option to do that! Duh! > > Phillip > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:IDCZ5.1676$[email hidden]... > > > >"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver on > the > > > > front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the right > when > > > > they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it... > > > > > > That's normal, they simply counter-balance the effect and position their > > > wheel at an angle. Geeze HELLO???? MCFLY?? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > > -- http://www.WeRace.net > > > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > > realise > > > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>Problem here is that even if I calibrate my wheel to compensate and the >virtual wheel in N4 looks straight *my* wheel still isn't... Then turn the damn wheel off! I can't believe you people are still going on about this. I turned the wheel off five minutes into the game and have never turned it back on. Problem solved. Dave Casey Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

I think the view without the wheel is pretty funny looking don't you? You've got the steering column sticking out with nothing on it. I LIKE the wheel. I just want to see what real drivers see. If real drivers bolt their wheel on at an angle to adjust for stagger so that the center of the wheel is at 12:00 when driving straight then we should be able to see ours the same way IMO. David Cook "Dave Casey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kUZZ5.1111$[email hidden]... > >Problem here is that even if I calibrate my wheel to compensate and the > >virtual wheel in N4 looks straight *my* wheel still isn't... > > Then turn the damn wheel off! I can't believe you people are still goingon > about this. I turned the wheel off five minutes into the game and havenever

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> turned it back on. Problem solved. > > > Dave Casey > Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4) > www.teamcasey.net > www.lvkc.com > www.buycoolcrap.com

Nascar 1,2, 99, or 3. dave henrie

On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:43:16 -0600, rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote: >On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:26:35 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Nascar 1,2, 99, or 3. > >or Heat.. > I Heat the wheels pulls left if I remember correctly? Andre

But you can use the trimmer to fix this. Jason. Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:43:16 -0600, rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:26:35 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >>Nascar 1,2, 99, or 3. > > > >or Heat.. > > > > I Heat the wheels pulls left if I remember correctly? > > Andre

-- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N3, GPL, Fun Run Sims) http://www.racersdomain.com - Race hosting. (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

My car in NASCAR Heat pulls slightly to the right? It tends to drift towards the wall. Chris -- www.geocities.com/simbokza Remove _your_clothes before replying "rrevved" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 14:26:35 GMT, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Nascar 1,2, 99, or 3. > > or Heat.. >

I know I'm late to this party, Bob, but I have some questions for you. And I want to say up front that I have no doubt that real cars set up for an oval produce a fair amount of pull. <bob> gave some ways to fix the "pull"... > 1. Most important. Full linear steering. On my wheel, moving linearity from the default to 100% reduced the amount of right turn I needed from almost 45 degrees to around 25-30 degrees. > 2. Set tire pressures equal, left to right. > 3. Set camber and castor equal left to right. > 4. Set the ride height equal, left to right. Wouldn't these all slow the car down? Not an option ;-) > Papy - If you do anything about this - DON"T DO IT IN > SIMULATION MODE (I _never_ shout, but...) You want the pull left in the game because real cars pull, and I'm okay with any realism that Papy can put in the game. However all the talk here about the real drivers "re-centering" their wheel and sim drivers doing the same by recalibrating seems wrong. If the pros had to re-align their wheel left to compensate for pull they experience at speed, wouldn't their steering wheel be cocked left when they pit? They have to have the front wheels straight for a pit stop, yet they don't seem to need to turn the wheel 25 degrees left to make that happen. So while pull is realistic, turning right 25 degrees to go straight is clearly not. My conclusion is that real drivers have to steer only slightly right on the straights to compensate for rear stagger alone. The other features of setup that cause the car to pull, most notably unequal tire pressures as you mentioned, are actually making the front wheels (and the steering wheel) try to turn left. The real drivers must compensate for that by applying clockwise force to the wheel to keep the car straight, not by turning the wheel right. Papy can't model that, so they've substituted an exaggerated "right-turn" response to simulate a realistic "force" response. Again, I'm okay with everything that makes N4 more realistic, but if you have to move the wheel from 25 degrees right, to centered, to 50 degrees right, back to 25 degrees right, just to pass a slower car on the back stretch, it seems we've moved farther away from realism instead of closer. The fact that with practice we'll all get used to it, doesn't in my mind outweigh the feeling that this is a bad substitution of responses in the name of simulation. Having to hold the wheel slightly right makes sense, 25 degrees seems like unrealistic overkill.

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>Again, I'm okay with everything that makes N4 more realistic, but if you = >have to move the wheel from 25 degrees right, to centered, to 50 degrees = >right, back to 25 degrees right, just to pass a slower car on the back = >stretch, it seems we've moved farther away from realism instead of = >closer. The fact that with practice we'll all get used to it, doesn't = >in my mind outweigh the feeling that this is a bad substitution of = >responses in the name of simulation. Having to hold the wheel slightly = >right makes sense, 25 degrees seems like unrealistic overkill. >

I actually think it's close. 25 degrees at the wheel is about a degree at the tire. Looking at a graph of slip angle versus cornering force makes me guess a degree at the tire is about right. 25 degrees doesn't surprise me, nor would 10. I would be flabbergasted if it was any less than that.

I'm not sure what controller you're using, but try setting the linearity to 80-85% (rather than 100) and then recalibrate your wheel in N4. After that you should only get a slight pull to the left (which is accurate), that requires a slight steer to the right to keep it in a straight line. Also, at that setting, the car won't be so over-responsive that you can't drive it smoothly through the corners. That's with the default setup. (which is a decent setup) BTW, Don't know if it got posted here (I only have time to parouse this NG every so often), but Dale Jr. posted a review of the N4 Demo on BlackHole Motorsports where he basically said the pull was dead-on accurate. He said that if he didn't countersteer a bit down the straights that the car would nose into the inside wall every time. BTW, I wouldn't suggest calibrating your wheel off-center... There are better ways to lessen the effect of the left-pull. =) -- -iFREEZn Jaim Friesen <bob> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >Again, I'm okay with everything that makes N4 more realistic, but if you = > >have to move the wheel from 25 degrees right, to centered, to 50 degrees = > >right, back to 25 degrees right, just to pass a slower car on the back = > >stretch, it seems we've moved farther away from realism instead of = > >closer. The fact that with practice we'll all get used to it, doesn't = > >in my mind outweigh the feeling that this is a bad substitution of = > >responses in the name of simulation. Having to hold the wheel slightly = > >right makes sense, 25 degrees seems like unrealistic overkill. > > > I actually think it's close. 25 degrees at the wheel is about a > degree at the tire. Looking at a graph of slip angle versus cornering > force makes me guess a degree at the tire is about right. > > 25 degrees doesn't surprise me, nor would 10. I would be > flabbergasted if it was any less than that.

Jaim Friesen wrote ...

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> I'm not sure what controller you're using, but try setting the linearity to > 80-85% (rather than 100) and then recalibrate your wheel in N4. After that > you should only get a slight pull to the left (which is accurate), that > requires a slight steer to the right to keep it in a straight line. Also, at > that setting, the car won't be so over-responsive that you can't drive it > smoothly through the corners. That's with the default setup. (which is a > decent setup)

Thanks Jaim, I didn't try intermediate values, just the default of 50% and the suggested setting of 100%. Since that change lessened the steering effect but not to what seemed reasonable to me, it didn't occur to me that some other setting would reduce it more. I'll give it a whirl. > BTW, Don't know if it got posted here (I only have time to parouse this NG > every so often), but Dale Jr. posted a review of the N4 Demo on BlackHole > Motorsports where he basically said the pull was dead-on accurate. He said > that if he didn't countersteer a bit down the straights that the car would > nose into the inside wall every time. I only saw re-posts of Dale's comments, and not this line about countersteering. It makes perfect sense, yet I'm still not sure what his definition of "countersteer" means, whether it means working to hold the wheel straight or actually turning the wheel in the opposite direction.

No problem, Don, hope that helps ya out. I was paraphrasing what Jr. said... what he said was essentially that if he let the car steer wherever it wanted down the straights (just took his hands off the wheel), the left-pull is so strong that the car would nose almost head-on into the inside wall. I don't know if he actually has to steer right a bit to counteract that, or if he just has to exert some effort to keep the wheel at center and the car moving straight. -- -iFREEZn Jaim Friesen "Don Jennings" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:92g97m$717kp$[email hidden]... Jaim Friesen wrote ... > I'm not sure what controller you're using, but try setting the linearity to > 80-85% (rather than 100) and then recalibrate your wheel in N4. After that > you should only get a slight pull to the left (which is accurate), that > requires a slight steer to the right to keep it in a straight line. Also, at > that setting, the car won't be so over-responsive that you can't drive it > smoothly through the corners. That's with the default setup. (which is a > decent setup) Thanks Jaim, I didn't try intermediate values, just the default of 50% and the suggested setting of 100%. Since that change lessened the steering effect but not to what seemed reasonable to me, it didn't occur to me that some other setting would reduce it more. I'll give it a whirl. > BTW, Don't know if it got posted here (I only have time to parouse this NG > every so often), but Dale Jr. posted a review of the N4 Demo on BlackHole > Motorsports where he basically said the pull was dead-on accurate. He said > that if he didn't countersteer a bit down the straights that the car would > nose into the inside wall every time. I only saw re-posts of Dale's comments, and not this line about countersteering. It makes perfect sense, yet I'm still not sure what his definition of "countersteer" means, whether it means working to hold the wheel straight or actually turning the wheel in the opposite direction.

[email hidden] (ymenard) wrote in <IDCZ5.1676$[email hidden]>: In driving my race car (a Legends car) which pulls to the left, it is a very natural and unconscious act to compensate for this down a straightaway. I don't have to give it much right input to keep it straight. The left turn is due to the castor split of the front tires. A castor split of 2-4 degrees is what is considered "normal" from the setup books I've read. In looking at the N4 setups, it appears that setting the split backwards (from what I do on my real car) to make it turn left. I usually set my LF to 0 degrees and RF between 2-4 degrees of positive. Setting your LF to negative should make the car want to turn left even more. Kind of a "power assist". Tim.

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>>"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote >> I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver on >> the front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the >> right when they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it... > >That's normal, they simply counter-balance the effect and position their >wheel at an angle. Geeze HELLO???? MCFLY?? > > > >-- >-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> >-- May the Downforce be with you... >-- http://www.WeRace.net >-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't >realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > >

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** This pull isn't so much of a problem for those with Force Feedback wheels, as the Force Feedback programming doesn't force the wheel to center. However, those with non Force Feedback Wheels, or even worse, those WITH Force FeedBack Wheels that do not like/use Force Feedback this is a very serious problem as you are continuously fighting the return-to-center action of the spring/psuedo spring. I typically do NOT like to use Force Feedback in Nascar Racing games. However, in Nascar 4 I don't have a choice. The return-to-center (yes, I've toned it down) spring action fights you all the way, and your driving and lap times worsen considerably. Despite the 'Reality' of the situation, this issue needs attention from Papyrus. It is a VERY REAL issue for many people, and prevents many people from enjoying the game. Simply adjusting the setup to get rid of it, or lessen it, and thus losing performance is not the total answer IMHO. This is a SIM. Being as realistic as possible is what all of us want. However, not everything 'real' transfers to a simulation well. IMHO, this is one of those things. We can't ignore the problem, or poo-poo those that have issues with it just because we have the equipment necessary to make it a non-issue. Not everyone can afford $100 + for a Force-Feedback wheel. The fine folks at MGI listened to our concerns regarding this matter with Nascar Heat, and in the first patch they provided us with a Trim Tab to help even this out. I think that's all anyone is asking for, and I think it's a reasonable request. It does not provide any unfair advantage. It only helps to even the playing field for those that cannot enjoy the simulation, and cannot afford a Force Feedback wheel, or for those that don't like to use Force Feedback in Nascar Sims (there are quite a few of us). The extreme loosness of the Force Feedback while in a straight-ahead position is something else that needs to be address, as well as the wheel-lock inadequacies, but that's another story for another patch :) -Larry "Tim Vannaman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (ymenard) wrote in > <IDCZ5.1676$[email hidden]>: > > In driving my race car (a Legends car) which pulls to > the left, it is a very natural and unconscious act to > compensate for this down a straightaway. I don't have to > give it much right input to keep it straight. > > The left turn is due to the castor split of the front tires. > A castor split of 2-4 degrees is what is considered "normal" > from the setup books I've read. In looking at the N4 setups, > it appears that setting the split backwards (from what I do > on my real car) to make it turn left. > > I usually set my LF to 0 degrees and RF between 2-4 degrees of > positive. Setting your LF to negative should make the car > want to turn left even more. Kind of a "power assist". > > Tim. > > > >>"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote > >> I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver on > >> the front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the > >> right when they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it... > > > >That's normal, they simply counter-balance the effect and position their > >wheel at an angle. Geeze HELLO???? MCFLY?? > > > > > > > >-- > >-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > >-- May the Downforce be with you... > >-- http://www.WeRace.net > >-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > >realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > >

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

There should probably be a setup option to center the wheel. You can do this on a real car I would think. Chris "Dog-Leg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > > This pull isn't so much of a problem for those with Force Feedback wheels, > as the Force Feedback programming doesn't force the wheel to center. > > However, those with non Force Feedback Wheels, or even worse, those WITH > Force FeedBack Wheels that do not like/use Force Feedback this is a very > serious problem as you are continuously fighting the return-to-center

action > of the spring/psuedo spring. > > I typically do NOT like to use Force Feedback in Nascar Racing games. > However, in Nascar 4 I don't have a choice. The return-to-center (yes,I've > toned it down) spring action fights you all the way, and your driving and > lap times worsen considerably. > > Despite the 'Reality' of the situation, this issue needs attention from > Papyrus. It is a VERY REAL issue for many people, and prevents manypeople

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> from enjoying the game. > > Simply adjusting the setup to get rid of it, or lessen it, and thus losing > performance is not the total answer IMHO. > > This is a SIM. Being as realistic as possible is what all of us want. > However, not everything 'real' transfers to a simulation well. IMHO, this > is one of those things. > > We can't ignore the problem, or poo-poo those that have issues with it

just > because we have the equipment necessary to make it a non-issue. Not > everyone can afford $100 + for a Force-Feedback wheel. > > The fine folks at MGI listened to our concerns regarding this matter with > Nascar Heat, and in the first patch they provided us with a Trim Tab tohelp

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> even this out. > > I think that's all anyone is asking for, and I think it's a reasonable > request. It does not provide any unfair advantage. It only helps to even > the playing field for those that cannot enjoy the simulation, and cannot > afford a Force Feedback wheel, or for those that don't like to use Force > Feedback in Nascar Sims (there are quite a few of us). > > The extreme loosness of the Force Feedback while in a straight-ahead > position is something else that needs to be address, as well as the > wheel-lock inadequacies, but that's another story for another patch :) > > -Larry > "Tim Vannaman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > [email hidden] (ymenard) wrote in > > <IDCZ5.1676$[email hidden]>: > > > > In driving my race car (a Legends car) which pulls to > > the left, it is a very natural and unconscious act to > > compensate for this down a straightaway. I don't have to > > give it much right input to keep it straight. > > > > The left turn is due to the castor split of the front tires. > > A castor split of 2-4 degrees is what is considered "normal" > > from the setup books I've read. In looking at the N4 setups, > > it appears that setting the split backwards (from what I do > > on my real car) to make it turn left. > > > > I usually set my LF to 0 degrees and RF between 2-4 degrees of > > positive. Setting your LF to negative should make the car > > want to turn left even more. Kind of a "power assist". > > > > Tim. > > > > > > >>"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote > > >> I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver on > > >> the front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the > > >> right when they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it... > > > > > >That's normal, they simply counter-balance the effect and position

their

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> > >wheel at an angle. Geeze HELLO???? MCFLY?? > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > >-- May the Downforce be with you... > > >-- http://www.WeRace.net > > >-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > > >realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** > http://www.usenet.com > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >

Man, I think you guys are right on the money. I recently bought the Thrustmaster Pro Digital USB wheel for my new N4 and what a hell of a learning curve I'm facing with the controls! I've been a sim racer since "Bill Elliott's Nascar Challenge" and I am the worst at the new N4, slippin', sliding, back end coming around, tons of wheel spin and unable to keep it very straight on straights. I'm using the fast setups at tracks and it feels very uncontrollable and twitchy. Any suggestions or is it me (ha, ha)? -Brian www.brianmclernon.com "TheMightyPuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xvRk6.1720$[email hidden]... > There should probably be a setup option to center the wheel. You can dothis > on a real car I would think. > > Chris > > "Dog-Leg" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:[email hidden]... > > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > > > > This pull isn't so much of a problem for those with Force Feedbackwheels,

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> > as the Force Feedback programming doesn't force the wheel to center. > > > > However, those with non Force Feedback Wheels, or even worse, those WITH > > Force FeedBack Wheels that do not like/use Force Feedback this is a very > > serious problem as you are continuously fighting the return-to-center > action > > of the spring/psuedo spring. > > > > I typically do NOT like to use Force Feedback in Nascar Racing games. > > However, in Nascar 4 I don't have a choice. The return-to-center (yes, > I've > > toned it down) spring action fights you all the way, and your driving

and

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> > lap times worsen considerably. > > > > Despite the 'Reality' of the situation, this issue needs attention from > > Papyrus. It is a VERY REAL issue for many people, and prevents many > people > > from enjoying the game. > > > > Simply adjusting the setup to get rid of it, or lessen it, and thus

losing > > performance is not the total answer IMHO. > > > > This is a SIM. Being as realistic as possible is what all of us want. > > However, not everything 'real' transfers to a simulation well. IMHO,this

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> > is one of those things. > > > > We can't ignore the problem, or poo-poo those that have issues with it > just > > because we have the equipment necessary to make it a non-issue. Not > > everyone can afford $100 + for a Force-Feedback wheel. > > > > The fine folks at MGI listened to our concerns regarding this matter

with > > Nascar Heat, and in the first patch they provided us with a Trim Tab to > help > > even this out. > > > > I think that's all anyone is asking for, and I think it's a reasonable > > request. It does not provide any unfair advantage. It only helps toeven

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> > the playing field for those that cannot enjoy the simulation, and cannot > > afford a Force Feedback wheel, or for those that don't like to use Force > > Feedback in Nascar Sims (there are quite a few of us). > > > > The extreme loosness of the Force Feedback while in a straight-ahead > > position is something else that needs to be address, as well as the > > wheel-lock inadequacies, but that's another story for another patch :) > > > > -Larry > > "Tim Vannaman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > [email hidden] (ymenard) wrote in > > > <IDCZ5.1676$[email hidden]>: > > > > > > In driving my race car (a Legends car) which pulls to > > > the left, it is a very natural and unconscious act to > > > compensate for this down a straightaway. I don't have to > > > give it much right input to keep it straight. > > > > > > The left turn is due to the castor split of the front tires. > > > A castor split of 2-4 degrees is what is considered "normal" > > > from the setup books I've read. In looking at the N4 setups, > > > it appears that setting the split backwards (from what I do > > > on my real car) to make it turn left. > > > > > > I usually set my LF to 0 degrees and RF between 2-4 degrees of > > > positive. Setting your LF to negative should make the car > > > want to turn left even more. Kind of a "power assist". > > > > > > Tim. > > > > > > > > > >>"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > >> I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver on > > > >> the front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the > > > >> right when they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it... > > > > > > > >That's normal, they simply counter-balance the effect and position > their > > > >wheel at an angle. Geeze HELLO???? MCFLY?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > >-- May the Downforce be with you... > > > >-- http://www.WeRace.net > > > >-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > > > >realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** > > http://www.usenet.com > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > >

many of the fast setups are very loose. Lower both sides of the trackbar a notch or two until you can keep the back end behind you. Good luck have fun...also increase the steering ratio to slow down the steering inputs. dave henrie "Brian Mc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hGVk6.71698$[email hidden]... > Man, I think you guys are right on the money. I recently bought the > Thrustmaster Pro Digital USB wheel for my new N4 and what a hell of a > learning curve I'm facing with the controls! I've been a sim racer since > "Bill Elliott's Nascar Challenge" and I am the worst at the new N4, > slippin', sliding, back end coming around, tons of wheel spin and unableto > keep it very straight on straights. I'm using the fast setups at tracksand > it feels very uncontrollable and twitchy. Any suggestions or is it me(ha,

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> ha)? > > -Brian > > www.brianmclernon.com > "TheMightyPuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:xvRk6.1720$[email hidden]... > > There should probably be a setup option to center the wheel. You can do > this > > on a real car I would think. > > > > Chris > > > > "Dog-Leg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > > > > > > This pull isn't so much of a problem for those with Force Feedback > wheels, > > > as the Force Feedback programming doesn't force the wheel to center. > > > > > > However, those with non Force Feedback Wheels, or even worse, those

WITH > > > Force FeedBack Wheels that do not like/use Force Feedback this is avery > > > serious problem as you are continuously fighting the return-to-center > > action > > > of the spring/psuedo spring. > > > > > > I typically do NOT like to use Force Feedback in Nascar Racing games. > > > However, in Nascar 4 I don't have a choice. The return-to-center(yes, > > I've > > > toned it down) spring action fights you all the way, and your driving > and > > > lap times worsen considerably. > > > > > > Despite the 'Reality' of the situation, this issue needs attentionfrom

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> > > Papyrus. It is a VERY REAL issue for many people, and prevents many > > people > > > from enjoying the game. > > > > > > Simply adjusting the setup to get rid of it, or lessen it, and thus > losing > > > performance is not the total answer IMHO. > > > > > > This is a SIM. Being as realistic as possible is what all of us want. > > > However, not everything 'real' transfers to a simulation well. IMHO, > this > > > is one of those things. > > > > > > We can't ignore the problem, or poo-poo those that have issues with it > > just > > > because we have the equipment necessary to make it a non-issue. Not > > > everyone can afford $100 + for a Force-Feedback wheel. > > > > > > The fine folks at MGI listened to our concerns regarding this matter > with > > > Nascar Heat, and in the first patch they provided us with a Trim Tab

to

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> > help > > > even this out. > > > > > > I think that's all anyone is asking for, and I think it's a reasonable > > > request. It does not provide any unfair advantage. It only helps to > even > > > the playing field for those that cannot enjoy the simulation, and

cannot > > > afford a Force Feedback wheel, or for those that don't like to useForce

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> > > Feedback in Nascar Sims (there are quite a few of us). > > > > > > The extreme loosness of the Force Feedback while in a straight-ahead > > > position is something else that needs to be address, as well as the > > > wheel-lock inadequacies, but that's another story for another patch :) > > > > > > -Larry > > > "Tim Vannaman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > [email hidden] (ymenard) wrote in > > > > <IDCZ5.1676$[email hidden]>: > > > > > > > > In driving my race car (a Legends car) which pulls to > > > > the left, it is a very natural and unconscious act to > > > > compensate for this down a straightaway. I don't have to > > > > give it much right input to keep it straight. > > > > > > > > The left turn is due to the castor split of the front tires. > > > > A castor split of 2-4 degrees is what is considered "normal" > > > > from the setup books I've read. In looking at the N4 setups, > > > > it appears that setting the split backwards (from what I do > > > > on my real car) to make it turn left. > > > > > > > > I usually set my LF to 0 degrees and RF between 2-4 degrees of > > > > positive. Setting your LF to negative should make the car > > > > want to turn left even more. Kind of a "power assist". > > > > > > > > Tim. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > >> I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver

on

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> > > > >> the front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the > > > > >> right when they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it... > > > > > > > > > >That's normal, they simply counter-balance the effect and position > > their > > > > >wheel at an angle. Geeze HELLO???? MCFLY?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > >-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > > >-- May the Downforce be with you... > > > > >-- http://www.WeRace.net > > > > >-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > > > > >realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** > > > http://www.usenet.com > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > > > > > > >

But if you center the wheel in a real car, the force is still there...making you turn the wheel makes you feel the same force that the real drivers feel. JB "TheMightyPuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xvRk6.1720$[email hidden]... > There should probably be a setup option to center the wheel. You can dothis > on a real car I would think. > > Chris > > "Dog-Leg" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:[email hidden]... > > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** > > > > This pull isn't so much of a problem for those with Force Feedbackwheels,

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> > as the Force Feedback programming doesn't force the wheel to center. > > > > However, those with non Force Feedback Wheels, or even worse, those WITH > > Force FeedBack Wheels that do not like/use Force Feedback this is a very > > serious problem as you are continuously fighting the return-to-center > action > > of the spring/psuedo spring. > > > > I typically do NOT like to use Force Feedback in Nascar Racing games. > > However, in Nascar 4 I don't have a choice. The return-to-center (yes, > I've > > toned it down) spring action fights you all the way, and your driving

and

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> > lap times worsen considerably. > > > > Despite the 'Reality' of the situation, this issue needs attention from > > Papyrus. It is a VERY REAL issue for many people, and prevents many > people > > from enjoying the game. > > > > Simply adjusting the setup to get rid of it, or lessen it, and thus

losing > > performance is not the total answer IMHO. > > > > This is a SIM. Being as realistic as possible is what all of us want. > > However, not everything 'real' transfers to a simulation well. IMHO,this

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> > is one of those things. > > > > We can't ignore the problem, or poo-poo those that have issues with it > just > > because we have the equipment necessary to make it a non-issue. Not > > everyone can afford $100 + for a Force-Feedback wheel. > > > > The fine folks at MGI listened to our concerns regarding this matter

with > > Nascar Heat, and in the first patch they provided us with a Trim Tab to > help > > even this out. > > > > I think that's all anyone is asking for, and I think it's a reasonable > > request. It does not provide any unfair advantage. It only helps toeven

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> > the playing field for those that cannot enjoy the simulation, and cannot > > afford a Force Feedback wheel, or for those that don't like to use Force > > Feedback in Nascar Sims (there are quite a few of us). > > > > The extreme loosness of the Force Feedback while in a straight-ahead > > position is something else that needs to be address, as well as the > > wheel-lock inadequacies, but that's another story for another patch :) > > > > -Larry > > "Tim Vannaman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > [email hidden] (ymenard) wrote in > > > <IDCZ5.1676$[email hidden]>: > > > > > > In driving my race car (a Legends car) which pulls to > > > the left, it is a very natural and unconscious act to > > > compensate for this down a straightaway. I don't have to > > > give it much right input to keep it straight. > > > > > > The left turn is due to the castor split of the front tires. > > > A castor split of 2-4 degrees is what is considered "normal" > > > from the setup books I've read. In looking at the N4 setups, > > > it appears that setting the split backwards (from what I do > > > on my real car) to make it turn left. > > > > > > I usually set my LF to 0 degrees and RF between 2-4 degrees of > > > positive. Setting your LF to negative should make the car > > > want to turn left even more. Kind of a "power assist". > > > > > > Tim. > > > > > > > > > >>"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > >> I'm gonna look next time I see an in-car view of a Nascar driver on > > > >> the front or back stretch and see if their wheel is turned to the > > > >> right when they are going straight. Somehow I doubt it... > > > > > > > >That's normal, they simply counter-balance the effect and position > their > > > >wheel at an angle. Geeze HELLO???? MCFLY?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > >-- May the Downforce be with you... > > > >-- http://www.WeRace.net > > > >-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't > > > >realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** > > http://www.usenet.com > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > > >