NASCAR Racing 3

Papyrus · released 1999 · discussed in 10,839 posts, 1996-2011 · overall tone mixed

Posts per month

Timeline

• 1997-10-25 A video on the Grand National expansion CD said NASCAR Racing 3 would come at Christmas 1998. post post
• 1998-05-29 At E3, Papyrus showed an alpha of Grand Prix Legends with Spa and the Nurburgring, plus an early NASCAR Racing 3. post post
• 1998-09-04 Papyrus clarified its lineup: NASCAR Racing 1999 Edition with trucks for late 1998, and NASCAR Racing 3 in 1999. thread post
• 1999-02-16 Papyrus posted a NASCAR Racing 3 preview and video, and demonstrated the game at Daytona. thread post post
• 1999-05-16 Papyrus said its next NASCAR title (then called NASCAR 2000) and NASCAR Legends would use an enhanced NASCAR Racing 2 engine. The GPL-engine NASCAR 3 was put on hold. thread post post
• 1999-09-15 NASCAR Racing 3 went on sale at US retailers after going gold at the start of September. It added free internet racing and force feedback. post post thread
• 1999-11-16 Papyrus offered a NASCAR Racing 3 beta patch with dedicated servers and chat rooms. A website's republication of the announcement led to a public dispute. post thread
• 1999-12-10 Papyrus advertised a Craftsman Truck expansion pack for NASCAR Racing 3. thread
• 2000-03-22 Papyrus released the v1.2 patch for NASCAR Racing 3, focused on network and dedicated-server changes. post post
• 2000-04-18 Papyrus's NASCAR Acceleration Pack went on sale for $50. It bundled NASCAR Racing 3, NASCAR Legends and the new Craftsman Truck expansion. thread post
• 2001-04-23 The Pits and Dave Noonan released converters that brought Grand Prix Legends tracks to NASCAR Racing 3 and NASCAR Legends. post post

Key threads

• Is NASCAR Racing 3 just a rehash of NASCAR 2? 1999-09-21 · 77 posts
  A rant that NASCAR Racing 3 looked silly next to Grand Prix Legends set off a long, insult-laden argument between GPL fans and NASCAR fans. Critics said N3 was an N2 engine with better graphics and unrealistic physics, while defenders said it was the best NASCAR sim available and offered better online racing. The thread wandered into store return policies and Sierra's cancellation of several titles.
• Pabst-Racing GPL simulator revives McArthur track dispute 2000-12-05 · 49 posts
  A post about Pabst-Racing's Lotus 49 GPL simulator led Tim McArthur to repeat his claim that Tom Pabst was using his Sears Point track work for NASCAR 3 without permission. Barton Brown and others challenged him to settle it in court, and the dispute became heated. Tom Pabst posted his own account of the work and explained the Lotus replica, and Bruce Kennewell supplied history on the chassis it was moulded from.
• E3 report on Papyrus plans: NASCAR 2000 and Legends 1999-05-16 · 43 posts
  Yves Menard posted a Race Sim Central E3 report saying the next NASCAR title would use enhanced N2 physics rather than GPL's, plus a NASCAR Legends title and server-based multiplayer. Many blamed Sierra for an annual-update strategy and suspected GPL's weak sales had scared management, while others argued GPL sold poorly because 1967 F1 means little to Americans. John Bodin said he had been told Viper Racing outsold GPL, and the thread ended on the small size of the hardcore sim market.
• NASCAR Racing 3 goes gold 1999-09-01 · 31 posts
  A poster relayed news from the Gone Gold site that Papyrus had confirmed NASCAR Racing 3 was finished and off to duplication. Asked again whether it used the GPL engine, Papyrus's Randy Cassidy simply answered 'No', and others expressed exasperation at the repeated question. Open-wheel fans grumbled about another title on an old driving model, while others defended Papyrus.
• Papyrus objects to leaked N3 beta patch announcement 1999-11-18 · 25 posts
  Papyrus's Shawn Wise complained after a simracing website posted Papyrus's N3 beta patch announcement despite a request not to republish it. Marc J. Nelson, whose site ran it, replied that it had been posted publicly on r.a.s. anyway, and an old feud between the two came up. Readers split between criticising the site and fearing that Papyrus would stop open beta testing.
• Old screenshots of Kaemmer's original NASCAR sim; no new CART sim 1999-12-27 · 25 posts
  Screenshots on The Pits of David Kaemmer's GPL-engine NASCAR project prompted speculation that they showed the original, shelved NASCAR Racing 3. Discussion turned to whether Papyrus would ever make another CART sim; Joel Willstein and David Cook said Papyrus's Grant Reeve had indicated on VROC that one would not come soon, mainly for Sierra business reasons. Posters debated why GPL sold only about 40,000 copies, blaming its difficulty and its unfamiliar 1967 era.
• First impressions of NASCAR Racing 3 1999-09-15 · 23 posts
  Early buyers said NASCAR Racing 3 looked much like NASCAR Racing 1999 but sounded much better, with somewhat more aggressive AI and new setup options. Its physics felt subtly improved over N2 but still forgiving. ymenard said N2, NR99 and ICR2 tracks could easily be converted for N3, and Michael Carver urged supporting developers who push physics forward.
• TEN becomes pogo.com, raising fears for NROS 1999-09-02 · 20 posts
  A poster found TEN's site renamed pogo.com with no racing listed and asked whether the NASCAR Racing Online Series was ending. ymenard relayed a TEN statement, and posters debated whether NASCAR Racing 3's free TCP/IP play would make a paid service unviable. A technical debate followed on how many online drivers a dedicated server and DSL or cable connection could support.
• NASCAR Racing 3 physics compared with GPL 2000-04-08 · 126 posts
  A reader asked how N3's driving feel compared with GPL. Most said N3 felt flat and rail-like next to GPL's dynamic physics but offered close pack racing and strategy. 2_Slow trolled by comparing GPL's grip to 1960s passenger cars, and arguments followed about downforce, era differences and N3 setup techniques. The thread later drifted into off-topic barbs.
• Oval racing debate continues: skill and IROC 2000-03-01 · 101 posts
  Continuing the oval racing debate, NASCAR fans argued each oval needs different techniques and pointed to IROC, where NASCAR drivers usually beat road racers. Skeptics said ovals all look alike and doubted the skill of NASCAR and CART drivers compared with F1. Some converts said NASCAR 3 online changed their minds, and the thread dragged into arguments about driver fitness.
• NASCAR Racing 3 track list includes Indianapolis 1999-09-03 · 71 posts
  Fans celebrated that Papyrus's NASCAR Racing 3 track list included the Indianapolis Motor Speedway among 28 Winston Cup and Busch tracks. Some confused it with Indianapolis Raceway Park, questioned GT Interactive's exclusive Indy licence, and noted Pocono was missing again. Posters looked forward to converting tracks such as Riverside from NASCAR Legends to other Papyrus sims, and noted that online play was quoted at 20 or more cars.
• Why NASCAR Heat drew criticism after release 2000-08-25 · 64 posts
  Alan Bernardo asked why a game praised in demo form was being trashed at release. Critics cited the weak damage model, caution and flag issues, excessive flips and no save game, while supporters praised its physics, AI and graphics over NASCAR Racing 3 and said a few people criticise every new title. Many hoped a patch would improve damage.
• First impressions of Voodoo5 5500 full-screen anti-aliasing 2000-05-26 · 61 posts
  Tracey Miller, an early buyer of the Voodoo5 5500, initially found its FSAA disappointing in GPL, NASCAR 3 and Viper Racing because of apparent shape shifting, later realising some effects also appeared without FSAA. She reported lockups in GPL's Glide mode and posted benchmark figures. Others discussed level-of-detail effects, Egghead shipping the card early, and CPU upgrade options.
• Will NASCAR Racing 3 succeed without strong online play? 1999-09-05 · 50 posts
  Andrew Britton argued that multiplayer support would make or break NASCAR Racing 3. TEN and OSCAR figures said online racing was the future, while Ed Bain, Bruce Kennewell and Joe McGinn cited sales data showing online players remained a small minority. The exchange turned personal, with name-calling between Ed Bain and TEN regulars, and a poster said N2 racers would be removed from TEN/Pogo in mid-October.
• Would you trade 43 cars for GPL physics in NASCAR 3? 1999-09-02 · 41 posts
  A poster asked whether people would accept 15 opponents with GPL-grade physics instead of 43 cars on an upgraded N2 engine in NASCAR Racing 3. Opinions split, with some saying NASCAR is not NASCAR without a full field and others preferring fewer, better drivers. The Papyrus press release was quoted on the decision, a beta was said to allow 32 online cars, and the tone grew testy as some objected to constant criticism of N3.
• First NASCAR Legends screenshot from Papyrus 1999-08-23 · 41 posts
  A poster pointed to a new NASCAR Legends screenshot on Papyrus's site. Michael Barlow and others feared it would use NASCAR Racing 3's physics rather than GPL's, while Scott Husted, who had reviewed an N3 alpha, said N3 was more than a facelift and promised large online fields. A debate followed about whether people should keep complaining that Papyrus had not reused the GPL engine.
• Feature wishes for NASCAR Racing 3 1998-01-07 · 40 posts
  Posters asked how to send ideas to Papyrus for NASCAR Racing 3; Jim Sokoloff gave the Papyrus mailing address and said Papyrus staff read r.a.s. Brian Tate said N3 would use the Grand Prix Legends physics model with separate springs and shocks. Suggested features included tyre failures, track bars, multi-clip replays, better damage and persistent rubber marks, with side arguments about Jeff Gordon.
• Should fans give Papyrus a break over NASCAR 3? 1999-06-24 · 39 posts
  Chad Rogers argued that Papyrus dropped the GPL engine from the next NASCAR sim because average CPUs could not handle it. Chris Rogers and Tracey Miller retorted that Papyrus had always pushed hardware and that commercial pressure after GPL's poor sales was the real reason, while others blamed Sierra or its owner Havas. A side argument covered whether GPL's difficulty comes from its physics or from the 1967 cars themselves.
• NASCAR pit lanes, TEN rankings and online cheating 1999-09-01 · 38 posts
  A question about Papyrus's curved pit lanes led to sarcasm about NASCAR Racing 3's smoke effects and a debate over free online play versus TEN's paid service. TEN regulars defended its rankings and cheat detection, while others called its Laps Per Incident ranking flawed. Posters discussed how easily track files can be modified to cheat in N3 and GPL.
• SearsGroup and Tim McArthur argue track ownership 2000-09-09 · 38 posts
  Tom Pabst replied to questions about SearsGroup's Sears99 and Bulldozer tracks, while Tim McArthur said Sears99's surface was built from scratch but its textures and objects were edited from Papyrus's Sears Point. Readers questioned how a third party could claim rights over modified Papyrus content, mostly sided with McArthur as the creator, and complained about the length of Pabst's posts.
• Drafting etiquette and throttle-brake use in N3 2000-03-16 · 38 posts
  A NASCAR Racing 3 driver asked how to avoid hitting cars when catching them in the draft. Advice was to lift slightly or drag the brake and be patient. This led to a long technical argument, mainly between ymenard and Jim Erb, over whether the old Papyrus engine models throttle and brake applied at the same time. Richard Walker concluded that the two sides were describing different things.
• GT Interactive's Indy licence and fears of simplified NASCAR 3 1999-03-02 · 38 posts
  News that GT Interactive had obtained exclusive Indy 500 and IRL rights meant NASCAR Racing 3 could not include Indianapolis. The thread became a debate over whether Sierra would make Papyrus simplify the NASCAR 3 physics after GPL's weak sales; most wanted optional difficulty levels rather than a simplified physics model, and oval and road racers argued over whether setup or driving skill matters more.
• Should sim racers still respect Sierra and Papyrus? 1999-05-16 · 37 posts
  Frank Koenig asked whether Papyrus and Sierra deserved respect after dropping the GPL engine for the next NASCAR title. Replies distinguished Papyrus from Sierra's management, argued that economics and GPL's weak sales drove the decision, and suggested the hardware needed to run GPL physics with a full NASCAR field was a real constraint. Side talk covered Rally Championship 99 hopes, and beta tester Pat Dotson estimated force feedback in GPL 1.1 would cost 5-10% in frame rate.
• Criticism of NASCAR 3 complaints and sim pricing 1999-09-22 · 37 posts
  Following Bob Curtin's post criticising complainers, posters argued over whether N3 deserved its beating and whether Papyrus should charge full price for an upgrade. The thread turned into a debate about whether hardcore sim fans would pay $100 or more for a premium simulation and how price affects quality and sales. It ended in Seinfeld jokes.
• NASCAR Racing 3 versus Ratbag's Dirt Track Racing 1999-09-05 · 36 posts
  John Bodin asked NASCAR fans whether they were more excited about Ratbag's Dirt Track Racing than NASCAR Racing 3. Many were keen on DTR's new classes and career mode, and a Ratbag poster confirmed it would include an online spectator mode. A debate followed over whether paid, centralised services like TEN beat free matchmaking such as VROC.
• Would sim racers buy a fantasy track pack? 2000-01-03 · 35 posts
  Don Hancock asked whether people would accept a cheaper add-on pack of fantasy tracks for Papyrus sims, since real tracks require licensing royalties. Some said yes if the tracks were realistic, but Joel Willstein and others insisted that the history of real circuits was essential to the sim experience. Posters also noted fan projects to build real tracks for GPL and identified the Dubai track as a reworked version of NASCAR 2's fantasy Red Rock.
• NASCAR Racing 3 versus Grand Prix Legends physics 1999-09-22 · 34 posts
  Posters debated whether GPL fans were unfairly trashing N3, pointing out that the physics are the same even though a 1967 F1 car and a 1999 stock car handle very differently. Some wanted an IndyCar Racing II update or a sim built on the GPL engine. Others speculated about Papyrus's next projects, such as the GPL 1.2 patch and NASCAR 4, and N3's improved online collision handling was praised.
• NASCAR 3 delays, Sega's CART licence and GPL engine reuse 1999-02-16 · 33 posts
  Arguments over the NASCAR Racing 3 preview and its delayed release led to news that CART had signed an exclusive deal with Sega for future CART games. Posters debated whether NASCAR was the best showcase for the GPL physics engine or whether touring cars or street driving would suit it better, with a side argument over Southern stereotypes.
• Papyrus NASCAR Acceleration Pack angers existing customers 2000-03-19 · 32 posts
  Marc Collins noted Papyrus's new NASCAR Acceleration Pack bundling N3, NASCAR Legends and the Craftsman Truck add-on, which undercut what loyal buyers had paid while N3 patches were still unfinished. Others defended it as normal pricing practice. The thread degenerated into insults aimed at ymenard. Late posts noted Charlie Heath's departure from Papyrus and a new 1200 beta patch said to greatly improve online play.
• Would GPL physics make a NASCAR sim too hard? 1999-05-18 · 31 posts
  Posters argued over whether a NASCAR sim built on the GPL engine would be unplayably hard. Many pointed out that modern stock cars have far more grip and fewer gears than 1967 F1 cars, so the GPL engine would bring realism and liveliness rather than difficulty, while Tony Wyss and others questioned whether a NASCAR title needs such an engine at all. A former stock-car driver noted that wheelspin is easy with 700 hp.
• Why does Papyrus make only NASCAR sims? 2000-05-10 · 31 posts
  Posters asked why Papyrus concentrated on NASCAR instead of a modern F1 or CART sim. Explanations included Papyrus's focus on the US market, the cost of track and Formula One licences, and Sierra's commercial priorities, while European fans argued that an F1 sim would sell well. Dave Henrie hinted that the TPTCC touring car mod team had plans for NASCAR 3.
• Is NASCAR Racing 2000 the same as NASCAR 3 1999-05-05 · 30 posts
  A PC Gamer mention of NASCAR Racing 2000 prompted confusion over whether it was the long-awaited GPL-engine NASCAR 3 or another update of NASCAR 2. Some insisted it was NASCAR 3 renamed, while others claimed industry sources said it was a separate title from another Papyrus team on the old engine, and that NASCAR 3 was still far off. Posters vented about vague release dates and rumours that the sim would be simplified.
• NASCAR 3 Daytona preview and frame-rate perception debate 1999-02-19 · 30 posts
  A question about the NASCAR Racing 3 demonstration Papyrus staff gave at Daytona led to a debate over GPL's 36 fps frame-rate cap and whether the eye can perceive more than 30 fps. Knowledgeable posters explained that film, television and computer displays differ and that higher frame rates do improve a racing sim's sense of speed.
• NASCAR Racing 3 Craftsman Truck add-on release and Daytona dispute 2000-03-11 · 29 posts
  Sierra support said the N3 Craftsman Truck expansion was due in late April or early May 2000. Many posters said they would not pay for tracks recycled from NASCAR Racing 1999 Edition. A related argument concerned reports that the coming patch would block hosting races on the leaked Daytona track and other add-on tracks on WON.net, with some blaming Papyrus and others blaming the licensing deal. Posters clarified that private IP-address races would still work.
• Disputed NASCAR Racing 3 release date 1999-09-07 · 29 posts
  A poster claimed NASCAR Racing 3's release had been brought forward to 15 September; Ed Bain said retailers still listed 2 October, which led to taunting from the original poster. Others discussed the upcoming NASCAR Legends and its short tracks, and the history of Talladega's original name.
• Request for a way to eject disruptive NASCAR 3 drivers 1999-10-03 · 26 posts
  Hitch-Hiker asked Papyrus for a way for hosts to remove abusive or deliberately wrecking drivers from N3 online races. Others pointed to the eject command in the GPL 1.1 patch, which N3 lacked, and debated blacklists and IP bans. One poster said Papyrus was working on unattended dedicated servers with remote control.
• What future for Papyrus beyond NASCAR? 2000-01-26 · 25 posts
  Jeffrey Haas wondered whether Papyrus would become purely a NASCAR developer as rivals worked on F1 and sports car sims. Replies agreed NASCAR sells in the US and that Sierra drives decisions, while ymenard expected a truck expansion for NASCAR 3 and NASCAR Racing 4 on the GPL engine to be shown at Daytona Speedweeks. Others discussed F1 licensing limits on internet play and possible console ports.
• Confusion over NASCAR 2000 versus NASCAR 3 and GPL physics 1999-05-25 · 24 posts
  Nigel Nichols questioned a High Groove report that Papyrus had dropped GPL physics from NASCAR 2000, and a High Groove writer replied that NASCAR 2000 had effectively replaced NASCAR 3. Dan Clarke of Operation Sports, who visited Papyrus, said NASCAR 2000 looked new and that NASCAR 3 was on hold because typical PCs could not yet handle its physics. Posters debated whether Papyrus should release sims that only high-end PCs can run, and what 'quality' means commercially.
• Should NASCAR Racing 3 leagues be restricted to cable modems? 1999-09-21 · 24 posts
  Dave Long asked whether any N3 leagues would be limited to cable-modem users. Others objected that this would split the online community and argued that connection stability and consistent latency mattered more than bandwidth. Several hosts reported cable connections dropping, and GPL league hosts said dial-up drivers could race well.
• E3 roundup: NASCAR 3 delayed and Trans Am Racing cancelled 1999-05-20 · 24 posts
  Kenneth Verburg linked an E3 roundup reporting that NASCAR 3 was delayed, NASCAR 2000 and NASCAR Legends were announced, and Trans Am Racing was cancelled. Posters lamented TAR's cancellation, then argued whether 1960s F1 cars were really harder to drive than modern ones, citing Graham Hill's view that later cars were harder, with John Wallace and Tim Wheatley debating whether driving at the limit is equally hard in any car.

Busiest threads

• Mixed reactions to the full NASCAR Heat release (33 posts about it)
• Is NASCAR Racing 3 just a rehash of NASCAR 2? (33 posts about it)
• NASCAR Racing 3 physics compared with GPL (29 posts about it)
• Drafting etiquette and throttle-brake use in N3 (24 posts about it)
• Complaints that NASCAR Racing 3 has become unenjoyable (23 posts about it)
• Would you trade 43 cars for GPL physics in NASCAR 3? (22 posts about it)
• Feature wishes for NASCAR Racing 3 (21 posts about it)
• NASCAR Racing 3 track list includes Indianapolis (21 posts about it)
• E3 report on Papyrus plans: NASCAR 2000 and Legends (19 posts about it)
• Will NASCAR Racing 3 succeed without strong online play? (19 posts about it)
• NASCAR Racing 3 Craftsman Truck add-on release and Daytona dispute (17 posts about it)
• NASCAR Racing 3 versus Grand Prix Legends physics (17 posts about it)
• NASCAR 3 wishlist and a look at NASCAR Manager (17 posts about it)
• Is NASCAR Racing 3 a game or a simulation? (17 posts about it)
• NASCAR 3 want list, round two (16 posts about it)

Sentiment by year

Each post that discussed the sim was rated from −2 (very negative) to +2 (very positive).

Who talked about it most

Dave Henrie · 453 ymenard · 404 Marc Collins · 114 Greg Cisko · 111 John Simmons · 104 Larry · 101 EldredP · 80 Scott B. Husted · 78 David L. Cook · 72 Michael Barlow · 72 Don Hancock ( · 72 Philster · 71 Michael E. Carver · 71 Tracey A Miller · 71 Joel A. Willstein · 70 Goy Larsen · 70 Cliff Roman · 63 Tom Pabst · 63 Don Burnette · 56 Eric Busch · 49

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