This is a new GPL simulator developed by this company out in California
that
> is redesigning Sears Point
http://www.pabst-racing.com/
Notable threadFlame warPabst-Racing GPL simulator revives McArthur track dispute
A post about Pabst-Racing's Lotus 49 GPL simulator led Tim McArthur to repeat his claim that Tom Pabst was using his Sears Point track work for NASCAR 3 without permission. Barton Brown and others challenged him to settle it in court, and the dispute became heated. Tom Pabst posted his own account of the work and explained the Lotus replica, and Bruce Kennewell supplied history on the chassis it was moulded from.
With Tom Pabst (Pabst-Racing)
Automated summary.
LOL, that is so funny. Pabst-Racing uses Sears99 (easily found at
http://www.simcyberworld.com/html/tep/index.htm) and some other tracks. They
have not redesigned SPR. The GPL cockpit seen in the pics is bought through
ball-racing in the UK.
"Humberto C. Soares" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:uEXW5.52561$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (10 lines)
> This is a new GPL simulator developed by this company out in California > that > > is redesigning Sears Point > > > > > http://www.pabst-racing.com/ > >Checked out searspoint.com and found this article
http://www.searspoint.com/news/general/modifychute12-00.html and was amazed
to see,
"The simulator was developed by Pabst-Racing.com out of Petaluma (Calif.)
and proved extremely helpful in the process. Pabst-Racing.com also developed
the software program used in the simulator."
I'm curious as to how Papy will feel about Pabst-Racing.com stating they
developed Nascar Racing 3.
Was at the auto show in San Francisco this past weekend as saw SPR's 2002
plan which still uses the existing chute. Instead of it straightening then
going into turn 7, it continues the turn straight into the Esses just under
the Goodyear bridge. This new Chute is to be banked at 9 degrees. They are
calling it "Riverside North" because of how similar this new turn will be to
the old Turn 9 at Riverside. Looks like half roadcourse, half oval.
Amazingly, Tom Pabst requested me to build (for N3 and GPL) both of these
configurations of SPR some time ago to see what they would look like. I
did... and there ya go.
"Tim McArthur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:rUXW5.503395$[email hidden]...
> LOL, that is so funny. Pabst-Racing uses Sears99 (easily found at
> http://www.simcyberworld.com/html/tep/index.htm) and some other tracks.They
> have not redesigned SPR. The GPL cockpit seen in the pics is boughtthrough
Quoted text (16 lines)
> ball-racing in the UK. > > "Humberto C. Soares" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:uEXW5.52561$[email hidden]... > > This is a new GPL simulator developed by this company out in California > > that > > > is redesigning Sears Point > > > > > > > > > > http://www.pabst-racing.com/ > > > > > >http://www.interactiveracing.com
It'll run ya' about $26K and up, depending on what you're looking
for. ::) The boys over at BallRacing do very nice work!
In article <rUXW5.503395$[email hidden]>,
"Tim McArthur" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> LOL, that is so funny. Pabst-Racing uses Sears99 (easily found at
> http://www.simcyberworld.com/html/tep/index.htm) and some othertracks. They
> have not redesigned SPR. The GPL cockpit seen in the pics is boughtthrough
> ball-racing in the UK.
>
> "Humberto C. Soares" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:uEXW5.52561$[email hidden]...
> > This is a new GPL simulator developed by this company out inCalifornia
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Quoted text (11 lines)
> > that > > > is redesigning Sears Point > > > > > > > > > > http://www.pabst-racing.com/ > > > > > >Tim,
After the flap a couple of months ago, I was wondering how it was all going
to turn out. Now we know...at least, 'til now. Is there more to come?
--Steve Smith
Tim McArthur <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:h8YW5.503441$[email hidden]...
> Checked out searspoint.com and found this article
> http://www.searspoint.com/news/general/modifychute12-00.html and wasamazed
> to see,
>
> "The simulator was developed by Pabst-Racing.com out of Petaluma (Calif.)
> and proved extremely helpful in the process. Pabst-Racing.com alsodeveloped
under
> the Goodyear bridge. This new Chute is to be banked at 9 degrees. They are
> calling it "Riverside North" because of how similar this new turn will beto
California
Quoted text (8 lines)
> the software program used in the simulator." > > I'm curious as to how Papy will feel about Pabst-Racing.com stating they > developed Nascar Racing 3. > > Was at the auto show in San Francisco this past weekend as saw SPR's 2002 > plan which still uses the existing chute. Instead of it straightening then > going into turn 7, it continues the turn straight into the Esses justQuoted text (19 lines)
> the old Turn 9 at Riverside. Looks like half roadcourse, half oval. > > Amazingly, Tom Pabst requested me to build (for N3 and GPL) both of these > configurations of SPR some time ago to see what they would look like. I > did... and there ya go. > > > "Tim McArthur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:rUXW5.503395$[email hidden]... > > LOL, that is so funny. Pabst-Racing uses Sears99 (easily found at > > http://www.simcyberworld.com/html/tep/index.htm) and some other tracks. > They > > have not redesigned SPR. The GPL cockpit seen in the pics is bought > through > > ball-racing in the UK. > > > > "Humberto C. Soares" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:uEXW5.52561$[email hidden]... > > > This is a new GPL simulator developed by this company out inQuoted text (13 lines)
> > > that > > > > is redesigning Sears Point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.pabst-racing.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > >I don't know what more Pabst plans to do with my work, but he has ignored my
requests to cease. Even his lawyer does not argue the fact that the work was
done by me as a non-employee and it is solely my intellectual property.
Pabst refuses to answer my emails, letters, or phone calls and it looks as I
have no choice but to take further action. To what extent that action may be
is unknown at this time. At the very least, his lawyer will be getting some
more phone calls from me in an attempt (again) to bring Pabst to a
discussion table to agree on some dollar amounts which is now owed to me for
the work he STOLE, used and advertised as his own, and is earning money
from. Pabst himself has put a 50 million dollar net worth to his company
which is directly based off my work.
Pabst has slandered my name both in the online community and the real racing
community based around Sears Point, NASCAR, SCCA, and software companies. He
has invaded my privacy by releasing personal information about me and my
family to the public in an attempt to gain supporters. He has willingly and
knowingly, fraudulently transferred the ownership of these files to Sears
Point Raceway as files created and owned by himself. Pabst has formed a
company and is earning money off another person's work.
From what I have heard from inside Pabst-Racing.com, his company has failed
in finding any software company willing to license their product to him for
use in his company and they have halted all production work. They have done
no additional work since stealing my files but continue to use my files to
find investors and supporters. They, of course, can not create tracks in N3
or GPL and MGI finally brushed them off.
Surely, Sierra, Havas, and Papyrus have to get involved now. With Pabst
publicly stating that he developed the software used to simulate the Sears
Point Raceway configurations, he is basically selling the Papyrus code as
his own. They must defend their copyright and trademarks or risk losing them
all together. It is common knowledge that the software used by Pabst is the
Nascar Racing 3 title and the occasional use of GPL.
I promise you all that I will not drag this discussion out again. If Pabst
comes out of his hole and responds, I will not. I am just happy I didn't get
involved with Pabst any more then I did... as a hobby.
"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:KNZW5.372410$[email hidden]...
> Tim,
>
> After the flap a couple of months ago, I was wondering how it was allgoing
(Calif.)
2002
> > plan which still uses the existing chute. Instead of it straighteningthen
> > going into turn 7, it continues the turn straight into the Esses just
> under
> > the Goodyear bridge. This new Chute is to be banked at 9 degrees. Theyare
> > calling it "Riverside North" because of how similar this new turn willbe
> to
> > the old Turn 9 at Riverside. Looks like half roadcourse, half oval.
> >
> > Amazingly, Tom Pabst requested me to build (for N3 and GPL) both ofthese
tracks.
Quoted text (12 lines)
> to turn out. Now we know...at least, 'til now. Is there more to come? > > --Steve Smith > > Tim McArthur <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:h8YW5.503441$[email hidden]... > > Checked out searspoint.com and found this article > > http://www.searspoint.com/news/general/modifychute12-00.html and was > amazed > > to see, > > > > "The simulator was developed by Pabst-Racing.com out of PetalumaQuoted text (8 lines)
> > and proved extremely helpful in the process. Pabst-Racing.com also > developed > > the software program used in the simulator." > > > > I'm curious as to how Papy will feel about Pabst-Racing.com stating they > > developed Nascar Racing 3. > > > > Was at the auto show in San Francisco this past weekend as saw SPR'sQuoted text (8 lines)
> > configurations of SPR some time ago to see what they would look like. I > > did... and there ya go. > > > > > > "Tim McArthur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:rUXW5.503395$[email hidden]... > > > LOL, that is so funny. Pabst-Racing uses Sears99 (easily found at > > > http://www.simcyberworld.com/html/tep/index.htm) and some otherQuoted text (24 lines)
> > They > > > have not redesigned SPR. The GPL cockpit seen in the pics is bought > > through > > > ball-racing in the UK. > > > > > > "Humberto C. Soares" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:uEXW5.52561$[email hidden]... > > > > This is a new GPL simulator developed by this company out in > California > > > > that > > > > > is redesigning Sears Point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.pabst-racing.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sounds to me like you have a pretty good case there Tim. I hate that when other people try to take credit for someones hard work. Not to mention, theres laws against that.
Michael K. Grandy Sr
Proud Member of Precision Racing Professional Internet Race Team
Member of Nass 2000 Pro Online Series
Competitor in LikeReal LAN Tournaments Pro Division
"Tim McArthur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Os1X5.504213$[email hidden]...
I don't know what more Pabst plans to do with my work, but he has ignored my
requests to cease. Even his lawyer does not argue the fact that the work was
done by me as a non-employee and it is solely my intellectual property.
Pabst refuses to answer my emails, letters, or phone calls and it looks as I
have no choice but to take further action. To what extent that action may be
is unknown at this time. At the very least, his lawyer will be getting some
more phone calls from me in an attempt (again) to bring Pabst to a
discussion table to agree on some dollar amounts which is now owed to me for
the work he STOLE, used and advertised as his own, and is earning money
from. Pabst himself has put a 50 million dollar net worth to his company
which is directly based off my work.
Pabst has slandered my name both in the online community and the real racing
community based around Sears Point, NASCAR, SCCA, and software companies. He
has invaded my privacy by releasing personal information about me and my
family to the public in an attempt to gain supporters. He has willingly and
knowingly, fraudulently transferred the ownership of these files to Sears
Point Raceway as files created and owned by himself. Pabst has formed a
company and is earning money off another person's work.
From what I have heard from inside Pabst-Racing.com, his company has failed
in finding any software company willing to license their product to him for
use in his company and they have halted all production work. They have done
no additional work since stealing my files but continue to use my files to
find investors and supporters. They, of course, can not create tracks in N3
or GPL and MGI finally brushed them off.
Surely, Sierra, Havas, and Papyrus have to get involved now. With Pabst
publicly stating that he developed the software used to simulate the Sears
Point Raceway configurations, he is basically selling the Papyrus code as
his own. They must defend their copyright and trademarks or risk losing them
all together. It is common knowledge that the software used by Pabst is the
Nascar Racing 3 title and the occasional use of GPL.
I promise you all that I will not drag this discussion out again. If Pabst
comes out of his hole and responds, I will not. I am just happy I didn't get
involved with Pabst any more then I did... as a hobby.
"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:KNZW5.372410$[email hidden]...
> Tim,
>
> After the flap a couple of months ago, I was wondering how it was all going
(Calif.)
2002
> > plan which still uses the existing chute. Instead of it straightening then
> > going into turn 7, it continues the turn straight into the Esses just
> under
> > the Goodyear bridge. This new Chute is to be banked at 9 degrees. They are
> > calling it "Riverside North" because of how similar this new turn will be
> to
> > the old Turn 9 at Riverside. Looks like half roadcourse, half oval.
> >
> > Amazingly, Tom Pabst requested me to build (for N3 and GPL) both of these
tracks.
Quoted text (12 lines)
> to turn out. Now we know...at least, 'til now. Is there more to come? > > --Steve Smith > > Tim McArthur <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:h8YW5.503441$[email hidden]... > > Checked out searspoint.com and found this article > > http://www.searspoint.com/news/general/modifychute12-00.html and was > amazed > > to see, > > > > "The simulator was developed by Pabst-Racing.com out of PetalumaQuoted text (8 lines)
> > and proved extremely helpful in the process. Pabst-Racing.com also > developed > > the software program used in the simulator." > > > > I'm curious as to how Papy will feel about Pabst-Racing.com stating they > > developed Nascar Racing 3. > > > > Was at the auto show in San Francisco this past weekend as saw SPR'sQuoted text (8 lines)
> > configurations of SPR some time ago to see what they would look like. I > > did... and there ya go. > > > > > > "Tim McArthur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:rUXW5.503395$[email hidden]... > > > LOL, that is so funny. Pabst-Racing uses Sears99 (easily found at > > > http://www.simcyberworld.com/html/tep/index.htm) and some otherQuoted text (24 lines)
> > They > > > have not redesigned SPR. The GPL cockpit seen in the pics is bought > > through > > > ball-racing in the UK. > > > > > > "Humberto C. Soares" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:uEXW5.52561$[email hidden]... > > > > This is a new GPL simulator developed by this company out in > California > > > > that > > > > > is redesigning Sears Point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.pabst-racing.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Wasn't this whole schlemozzle featured in a mid-level flame war here in
ras just a few weeks ago?
Tim McArthur wrote:
>
> LOL, that is so funny. Pabst-Racing uses Sears99 (easily found at
> http://www.simcyberworld.com/html/tep/index.htm) and some other tracks. They
> have not redesigned SPR....
>"Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote
> Wasn't this whole schlemozzle featured in a mid-level flame war here in
> ras just a few weeks ago?
Yes, and maybe this time we can feature a high-level flame war here in ras.
I've never seen one here, but participated in others around the Usenet.
They are fun :)
<ps: Derek Smart isn't smart>
/ignites bow-torch
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.
Barton Brown wrote:
>
> Wasn't this whole schlemozzle featured in a mid-level flame war here in
> ras just a few weeks ago?
Schlemozzle?? I haven't heard THAT term since the old days with Laverne
& Shirley! <GG>
--
Chuck Kandler
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
Registered Linux User #180746
http://counter.li.org
Even more
http://www.contracostatimes.com/sports/motorsports/stories/motorcol_20001201
.htm
"Tim McArthur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:h8YW5.503441$[email hidden]...
> Checked out searspoint.com and found this article
> http://www.searspoint.com/news/general/modifychute12-00.html and wasamazed
> to see,
>
> "The simulator was developed by Pabst-Racing.com out of Petaluma (Calif.)
> and proved extremely helpful in the process. Pabst-Racing.com alsodeveloped
under
> the Goodyear bridge. This new Chute is to be banked at 9 degrees. They are
> calling it "Riverside North" because of how similar this new turn will beto
California
Quoted text (8 lines)
> the software program used in the simulator." > > I'm curious as to how Papy will feel about Pabst-Racing.com stating they > developed Nascar Racing 3. > > Was at the auto show in San Francisco this past weekend as saw SPR's 2002 > plan which still uses the existing chute. Instead of it straightening then > going into turn 7, it continues the turn straight into the Esses justQuoted text (19 lines)
> the old Turn 9 at Riverside. Looks like half roadcourse, half oval. > > Amazingly, Tom Pabst requested me to build (for N3 and GPL) both of these > configurations of SPR some time ago to see what they would look like. I > did... and there ya go. > > > "Tim McArthur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:rUXW5.503395$[email hidden]... > > LOL, that is so funny. Pabst-Racing uses Sears99 (easily found at > > http://www.simcyberworld.com/html/tep/index.htm) and some other tracks. > They > > have not redesigned SPR. The GPL cockpit seen in the pics is bought > through > > ball-racing in the UK. > > > > "Humberto C. Soares" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:uEXW5.52561$[email hidden]... > > > This is a new GPL simulator developed by this company out inQuoted text (13 lines)
> > > that > > > > is redesigning Sears Point > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.pabst-racing.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > >
Barton Brown wrote:
>
> Wasn't this whole schlemozzle featured in a mid-level flame war here in
> ras just a few weeks ago?
No, it was the center of attention for two people with different
opinions as to what actually happened a while back....:-)
Pah, we haven't had a good flame war in here since Byron Forbes left,
miss the old bloke, all these other attempts have been pretty pathetic
really :-)
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com
Goy Larsen wrote:
> Pah, we haven't had a good flame war in here since Byron Forbes left,
> miss the old bloke, all these other attempts have been pretty pathetic
> really :-)
That's really funny. I was just thinking about him the other day.
Wonder whatever became of Byron? Maybe Bruce knows, IIRC he was from
down his way somewhere. ;-)
--
Chuck Kandler
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
Registered Linux User #180746
http://counter.li.org
Uncle Fester wrote:
Of course he knows him, Australia isn't *that* big is it ?
Although rumor has it that they have houses on both sides of the roads
in most cities these days, and Bruce is probably too old to remember who
Byron is anyway....
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com
Quoted text (10 lines)
> > Goy Larsen wrote: > > > Pah, we haven't had a good flame war in here since Byron Forbes left, > > miss the old bloke, all these other attempts have been pretty pathetic > > really :-) > > That's really funny. I was just thinking about him the other day. > Wonder whatever became of Byron? Maybe Bruce knows, IIRC he was from > down his way somewhere. ;-)Uncle Fester wrote:
>
> Schlemozzle?? I haven't heard THAT term since the old days with Laverne
> & Shirley! <GG>
What was it..."Schlemiel, schlemozzle..."?
Barton Brown wrote:
"...Hozzenfeff Incorporated." Or something quite similar. It's been
about 20 years since I saw that show. Geeez I'm feeling old today...
thanks BB! <g>
--
Chuck Kandler
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
Registered Linux User #180746
http://counter.li.org
Quoted text (7 lines)
> > Uncle Fester wrote: > > > > Schlemozzle?? I haven't heard THAT term since the old days with Laverne > > & Shirley! <GG> > > What was it..."Schlemiel, schlemozzle..."?Just out of curiosity... maybe you can shed some light on this:
It's my understanding that you were going to do an interview several
weeks ago with Jeff Downey at the "Operation Sports" sim ezine:
http://www.operationsports.com
to present your case in response to the investigative report Mr. Downey
presented on "Operation Sports" regarding your charges against Pabst
Racing. Again, as I understand it, came the day for your interview with
Mr. Downey, and you were (and have been since) a no-show.
I may not know much, but it doesn't seem quite logical to me that Pabst
Racing would be in violation of Havas/Sierra/Papyrus', or Sears Point's,
or even *your* intellectual property rights, and then have these
products you keep claiming are "stolen" available on a very public
website without incurring legal action from the above-named "victims".
You'd think that at least Havas/Sierra/Papyrus would have clamped a
"cease-and-desist", "restaraint-of-trade" injunction on Pabst Racing if
your allegations were true, but that quite clearly has NOT happened.
Which kinda makes me wonder about the completeness and/or veracity of
your claims. None of my business, I guess, except that every time Pabst
Racing is mentioned on this NG, you come out with the same old story,
and it affects THEIR reputation, as well as making you look a lot like
the boy who cried wolf. In fact, your outright accusations of fraud and
infringement would seem to me to leave YOU open for litigation.
If Pabst Racing has done something actionable vis � vis
Havas/Sierra/Papyrus, then that corporate entity should institute legal
action. If Pabst Racing has done something actionable vis � vis Tim
McArthur, then YOU should institute legal action. If Pabst Racing has
NOT done something actionable vis � vis anybody, then you're setting
yourself up for a slander and libel suit, or so it seems to me.
You seemed eager to tell your side of the story to Mr. Downey at
"Operation Sports", but then never followed through; but it seems you
have no qualms whatsoever about continuing to make claims against Pabst
Racing in this NG.
What's up with that?
Bart Brown
Actually Barton, I did exchange a few emails with Jeff Downey after his
article was "published". I even gave him a rebuttal with my side of the
story. Jeff wanted my "witnesses" phone numbers and address so he could
contact them and I refused. Jeff then decided NOT to run my rebuttal
claiming that I was not willing. I was not about to hand out people's names
and phone numbers to an online "reporter" (I say that VERY loosely). Jeff
states that he has all the facts in his story and he was very sure to have
them all because of his journalistic integrity. Unfortunately Jeff did not
have all the facts and if he had only spent a few minutes investigating he
would have been able to get the facts easily. Go to Dejanews and search for
my posts, I made one a while back about this very issue and about Downey's
article and my rebuttal that he refused to use.
As for Havas/Sierra/Papy... I really can not speak for what they have done
or are planning on doing. They could easily just sit back and not do a
thing, and I wouldn't doubt that it may happen. Myself, I do not plan to do
so.
The reason I show my disgust when the Pabst Racing issue comes up is because
I am... disgusted that they are doing it, and getting away with it. It is a
free forum and I am free to express my thoughts on this issue correct?
I think the community is very clear about a couple issues:
1) I have the capability to create tracks for N3/NL
2) I have released numerous examples of my work, since June of 2000, to the
public. (TEP and TWI)
3) Pabst has done only one thing regarding sim-racing (a soundpack)
4) Pabst has not been able to show that he is capable of creating even the
most simple of tracks.
5) Even Pabst has agreed that I am the person who created the Sears9x
tracks, he argues that I was employed by him to do so under contract by SPR.
Things the community is NOT very clear about:
1) By me agreeing to build these tracks earlier in the year, even with
Pabst's help, does not mean I was employed by him or that I was a partner in
his company.
2) I never agreed (verbally or written) to Pabst, SPR, SMI, or SearsGroup
that my work belongs to anyone but myself and could be used for any other
reasons other then entertainment.
3) Legally, I am held back from being employed doing what Pabst is doing
with N3 or NL.
I hope this helps answer a few of your questions Barton
"Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (42 lines)
> Just out of curiosity... maybe you can shed some light on this: > > It's my understanding that you were going to do an interview several > weeks ago with Jeff Downey at the "Operation Sports" sim ezine: > > http://www.operationsports.com > > to present your case in response to the investigative report Mr. Downey > presented on "Operation Sports" regarding your charges against Pabst > Racing. Again, as I understand it, came the day for your interview with > Mr. Downey, and you were (and have been since) a no-show. > > I may not know much, but it doesn't seem quite logical to me that Pabst > Racing would be in violation of Havas/Sierra/Papyrus', or Sears Point's, > or even *your* intellectual property rights, and then have these > products you keep claiming are "stolen" available on a very public > website without incurring legal action from the above-named "victims". > You'd think that at least Havas/Sierra/Papyrus would have clamped a > "cease-and-desist", "restaraint-of-trade" injunction on Pabst Racing if > your allegations were true, but that quite clearly has NOT happened. > Which kinda makes me wonder about the completeness and/or veracity of > your claims. None of my business, I guess, except that every time Pabst > Racing is mentioned on this NG, you come out with the same old story, > and it affects THEIR reputation, as well as making you look a lot like > the boy who cried wolf. In fact, your outright accusations of fraud and > infringement would seem to me to leave YOU open for litigation. > > If Pabst Racing has done something actionable vis � vis > Havas/Sierra/Papyrus, then that corporate entity should institute legal > action. If Pabst Racing has done something actionable vis � vis Tim > McArthur, then YOU should institute legal action. If Pabst Racing has > NOT done something actionable vis � vis anybody, then you're setting > yourself up for a slander and libel suit, or so it seems to me. > > You seemed eager to tell your side of the story to Mr. Downey at > "Operation Sports", but then never followed through; but it seems you > have no qualms whatsoever about continuing to make claims against Pabst > Racing in this NG. > > What's up with that? > > Bart Brown
Well I while back I had an opportunity to actaully have some lengthy emal
discussions with Mr. Pabst. His attacking Tim about where he lives and
whether or not Tim had a job and this and that were completely uncalled for
Mr. Pabst has not case he can prove since if he did he would have long ago
taken it to court. He is trying to win the court of public opinion and well
if you tell a lie enough after a while it will be held up as a fact. Look
at Florida now, Everyone is saying Bush is the guy holding up this whole
deal, if Bush would quit trying to steal the election and just concede it
would be over. Well all Bush did was win Florida several times over and
over and is just waiting for Gore to get done in court. Tom has been doing
a similar thing and well Tim is just trying to get his side of the story.
Tom did misrepesent a few things to me in our email discussion and well
when I mentioned it the discussion from his side just flat stopped. That
tells me what was going on and well I would bet if Tom starts making money
Papy will be all over him with a law suit. I mean why sue the poor there
is nothing in that, but sueing someone that has money that will be
worthwhile just in the fact when you win you court costs will be paid.
Dave
PS, Tom is you are reading this it was posted on RAS not emailed to you by
me.
Tim McArthur <[email hidden]> wrote in article
<mBwX5.510335$[email hidden]>...
> Actually Barton, I did exchange a few emails with Jeff Downey after his
> article was "published". I even gave him a rebuttal with my side of the
> story. Jeff wanted my "witnesses" phone numbers and address so he could
> contact them and I refused. Jeff then decided NOT to run my rebuttal
> claiming that I was not willing. I was not about to hand out people'snames
> and phone numbers to an online "reporter" (I say that VERY loosely). Jeff
> states that he has all the facts in his story and he was very sure tohave
> them all because of his journalistic integrity. Unfortunately Jeff didnot
> have all the facts and if he had only spent a few minutes investigatinghe
> would have been able to get the facts easily. Go to Dejanews and searchfor
> my posts, I made one a while back about this very issue and aboutDowney's
> article and my rebuttal that he refused to use.
>
> As for Havas/Sierra/Papy... I really can not speak for what they havedone
> or are planning on doing. They could easily just sit back and not do a
> thing, and I wouldn't doubt that it may happen. Myself, I do not plan todo
> so.
>
> The reason I show my disgust when the Pabst Racing issue comes up isbecause
> I am... disgusted that they are doing it, and getting away with it. It isa
> free forum and I am free to express my thoughts on this issue correct?
>
> I think the community is very clear about a couple issues:
> 1) I have the capability to create tracks for N3/NL
> 2) I have released numerous examples of my work, since June of 2000, tothe
> public. (TEP and TWI)
> 3) Pabst has done only one thing regarding sim-racing (a soundpack)
> 4) Pabst has not been able to show that he is capable of creating eventhe
> most simple of tracks.
> 5) Even Pabst has agreed that I am the person who created the Sears9x
> tracks, he argues that I was employed by him to do so under contract bySPR.
>
> Things the community is NOT very clear about:
> 1) By me agreeing to build these tracks earlier in the year, even with
> Pabst's help, does not mean I was employed by him or that I was a partnerin
Quoted text (8 lines)
> his company. > 2) I never agreed (verbally or written) to Pabst, SPR, SMI, or SearsGroup > that my work belongs to anyone but myself and could be used for any other > reasons other then entertainment. > 3) Legally, I am held back from being employed doing what Pabst is doing > with N3 or NL. > > I hope this helps answer a few of your questions BartonDavid ? wrote:
>
> Well I while back I had an opportunity to actaully have some lengthy emal
> discussions with Mr. Pabst.
And you are whom?
> His attacking Tim about where he lives and
> whether or not Tim had a job and this and that were completely uncalled for
Maybe uncalled-for, but not quite in the same league as publicly saying
someone stole something.
> Mr. Pabst has not case he can prove since if he did he would have long ago
> taken it to court. He is trying to win the court of public opinion and well
> if you tell a lie enough after a while it will be held up as a fact. Tom
> has been doing a similar thing and well Tim is just trying to get
> his side of the story.
The same thing could just as easily be said about the OTHER side.
> Tom did misrepesent a few things to me in our email discussion and well
> when I mentioned it the discussion from his side just flat stopped.
Do you know for a FACT he misrepresented a few things, or is that
conjecture or someone else saying he misrepresented a few things?
> That tells me what was going on
Are you sure you have the whole story, or enough of it so that you can
be confident that you know what's going on? I'm not doubting your
veracity here, it's just that nothing you've said in this message is
anything that couldn't just as easily be turned around and applied to
the other side. The final part of your argument:
> and well I would bet if Tom starts making money
> Papy will be all over him with a law suit. I mean why sue the poor there
> is nothing in that, but sueing someone that has money that will be
> worthwhile just in the fact when you win you court costs will be paid.
...well, I'm sorry; but that dog don't hunt. Whether Pabst Racing is
making nothing or a million bucks a day (Tim McArthur claims "Pabst
himself has put a 50 million dollar net worth to his company which is
directly based off my work") has no bearing on copyright infringement,
and there's no way Havas/Sierra/Papyrus would allow such infringement to
exist without raising a major stink -- like any company of that size,
they have a full-time legal staff that gets paid whether they're writing
up cease-and-desist injunctions or reading the sports pages. It wouldn't
cost them anything to institute such an action, and I believe that
Sierra, at least, has a history of doing so. So either they're unaware
of the existence of the Pabst Racing site (pretty doubtful), or they
find nothing actionable in what Pabst Racing is doing. I can't think of
any other explanation, but if anyone else can, I'm always willing to be educated.
As for Tim McArthur, he accuses Pabst Racing of theft of intellectual
property, breach of contract, invasion of privacy, and slander and
libel; and if the claims are true, these infractions of the law have
seriously impacted Mr. McArthur's livelihood:
"Even his lawyer does not argue the fact that the work was done by me as
a non-employee and it is solely my intellectual property. Pabst refuses
to answer my emails, letters, or phone calls and it looks as I have no
choice but to take further action. To what extent that action may be is
unknown at this time. At the very least, his lawyer will be getting some
more phone calls from me in an attempt (again) to bring Pabst to a
discussion table to agree on some dollar amounts which is now owed to me
for the work he STOLE, used and advertised as his own, and is earning
money from.
"Pabst has slandered my name both in the online community and the real racing
community based around Sears Point, NASCAR, SCCA, and software
companies. He
has invaded my privacy by releasing personal information about me and my
family to the public in an attempt to gain supporters. He has willingly and
knowingly, fraudulently transferred the ownership of these files to Sears
Point Raceway as files created and owned by himself. Pabst has formed a
company and is earning money off another person's work."
All of these are serious charges -- way too serious to be bruited about
in a public forum. As Mr. McArthur says: "it looks as I have no choice
but to take further action."
Finally. Mr. McArthur says: "The reason I show my disgust when the Pabst
Racing issue comes up is because I am... disgusted that they are doing
it, and getting away with it. It is a free forum and I am free to
express my thoughts on this issue correct?"
Yes, it's a free forum; I just wished to point out that once you take
that irrevocable step into the realm of litigation, or someone else
brings suit against you everything you say in public is fair game.
Anyone having an interest in this dispute between Mr. McArthur and Mr.
Pabst -- and I think anyone interested in the future of sim-racing
*should* have an interest in it -- might want to take a look at Jeff
Downey's article from "Operation Sports":
http://www.operationsports.com/reviewvault/articlesfull.asp?featureid=94
I think most are very bored with this dispute as it has been going on since
June of this year. Both in private and in RAS.
"Tim McArthur is very good at inputting data to create nice NASCAR 3 tracks.
However, you aren't going to see any other tracks like this one from him" -
From Jeff Downey's article
Here comes my plug:
Don't forget to go check out TEP at
http://www.simcyberworld.com/html/tep/index.htm for all those tracks I
supposedly cant create according to Mr. Downey and my comments that were
sent to Jeff and never posted as a rebuttal at
http://x58.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=674188533&CONTEXT=976141256.2122448974&hitn
um=37
If you like you can email Tom Pabst himself ([email hidden]) and ask him to
create you one simple track. I promise you that he wont be able to do it as
he has stated in this RAS post:
http://x62.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=686193929&CONTEXT=976141910.1887633409&hitn
um=71
I have no reason to justify my actions to you any longer Barton, so don't
take it the wrong way if I just stop responding to this very old, tired
subject. This is going to have to be settle via attorneys as there is just
no logic behind Pabst and his organization.
"Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Anyone having an interest in this dispute between Mr. McArthur and Mr.
> Pabst -- and I think anyone interested in the future of sim-racing
> *should* have an interest in it -- might want to take a look at Jeff
> Downey's article from "Operation Sports":
>
> http://www.operationsports.com/reviewvault/articlesfull.asp?featureid=94
Barton Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in article
<[email hidden]>...
> David ? wrote:
> >
> > Well I while back I had an opportunity to actaully have some lengthyemal
> > discussions with Mr. Pabst.
>
> And you are whom?
Actaully I am just like you, but I made a comment here that brought Tom out
to email me and ask a few questions.
>
> > His attacking Tim about where he lives and
> > whether or not Tim had a job and this and that were completely uncalledfor
>
> Maybe uncalled-for, but not quite in the same league as publicly saying
> someone stole something.
Well if its true that Tom stole something then that is n ot uncalled for.
Its not slander or libel either if its true
>
> > Mr. Pabst has not case he can prove since if he did he would have longago
> > taken it to court. He is trying to win the court of public opinion andwell
> > if you tell a lie enough after a while it will be held up as a fact.Tom
> > has been doing a similar thing and well Tim is just trying to get
> > his side of the story.
>
> The same thing could just as easily be said about the OTHER side.
Well lets see Tim admittedly has limited means and Tom actaully has
retained a lawyer, but has not brought a case against anyone. Since I know
both of them Tim a bit better then Tom, I can understand why Tim has not
brought a case against Tom since you have to have a lot of money to do
this.
>
> > Tom did misrepesent a few things to me in our email discussion and well
> > when I mentioned it the discussion from his side just flat stopped.
>
> Do you know for a FACT he misrepresented a few things, or is that
> conjecture or someone else saying he misrepresented a few things?
Yes I do know he mispresented a few things. One he contradicted himself
and the other there is no way Tim could have ever legally worked for Tom or
Tom's company since that would have put Tim into a legal problem that would
have been unsurmountable for Tim. Tim is not stupid and would not have put
himself into that position
Since I have spoken at length to both parties I would say yes. Tim was
actaully waiting for Tom to bring suit, but Tom will not since he has not
case
>
> > and well I would bet if Tom starts making money
> > Papy will be all over him with a law suit. I mean why sue the poorthere
educated.
> Well Pabst Racing has not made any money yet. His claim of net worth
actaully means nothing. What he has made dollar wise does. I do agree
that Papy or Sierra should do something since to my knowledge Pabst Racing
is using Papy software in a commercial manner. I am not either of those
companies so I cannot determine why they have not made a move.
> As for Tim McArthur, he accuses Pabst Racing of theft of intellectual
> property, breach of contract, invasion of privacy, and slander and
> libel; and if the claims are true, these infractions of the law have
> seriously impacted Mr. McArthur's livelihood:
Well they have for one they have placed Tim in jepordy due to a contract he
signed, and also any software company would have to look at what Pabst has
claimed, and say Tim is a security risk. Tim is not a security risk since
he was never paid by Tom, Tom's company or the company that allowed the
work to be done. Tom's mentioning Tim's financial situation, his housing
situation, and well that fact that Tim supposedly worked for him are both
uncalled for and well the last if a flat lie.
racing
> community based around Sears Point, NASCAR, SCCA, and software
> companies. He
> has invaded my privacy by releasing personal information about me and my
> family to the public in an attempt to gain supporters. He has willinglyand
Well if they are true they are not charges and they cannot be slander or
libel. calling someone a theif who is a theif is not illegal and well you
cannot sue someone for calling you what you are. Yes they are serious, but
have you ever thought maybe Tim like a lot of other people does not have
the money to retain a lawyer and bring suit against Tom. Since Tom does
have a lawyer and he admitted it to me, then why does not he bring suit
against Tim over what he has publicly said.
Well if Tim's statments are true they are not slander or libel.
Dave
Quoted text (8 lines)
> > > That tells me what was going on > > Are you sure you have the whole story, or enough of it so that you can > be confident that you know what's going on? I'm not doubting your > veracity here, it's just that nothing you've said in this message is > anything that couldn't just as easily be turned around and applied to > the other side. The final part of your argument:Quoted text (16 lines)
> > is nothing in that, but sueing someone that has money that will be > > worthwhile just in the fact when you win you court costs will be paid. > > ...well, I'm sorry; but that dog don't hunt. Whether Pabst Racing is > making nothing or a million bucks a day (Tim McArthur claims "Pabst > himself has put a 50 million dollar net worth to his company which is > directly based off my work") has no bearing on copyright infringement, > and there's no way Havas/Sierra/Papyrus would allow such infringement to > exist without raising a major stink -- like any company of that size, > they have a full-time legal staff that gets paid whether they're writing > up cease-and-desist injunctions or reading the sports pages. It wouldn't > cost them anything to institute such an action, and I believe that > Sierra, at least, has a history of doing so. So either they're unaware > of the existence of the Pabst Racing site (pretty doubtful), or they > find nothing actionable in what Pabst Racing is doing. I can't think of > any other explanation, but if anyone else can, I'm always willing to beQuoted text (12 lines)
> > "Even his lawyer does not argue the fact that the work was done by me as > a non-employee and it is solely my intellectual property. Pabst refuses > to answer my emails, letters, or phone calls and it looks as I have no > choice but to take further action. To what extent that action may be is > unknown at this time. At the very least, his lawyer will be getting some > more phone calls from me in an attempt (again) to bring Pabst to a > discussion table to agree on some dollar amounts which is now owed to me > for the work he STOLE, used and advertised as his own, and is earning > money from. > > "Pabst has slandered my name both in the online community and the realQuoted text (7 lines)
> knowingly, fraudulently transferred the ownership of these files to Sears > Point Raceway as files created and owned by himself. Pabst has formed a > company and is earning money off another person's work." > > All of these are serious charges -- way too serious to be bruited about > in a public forum. As Mr. McArthur says: "it looks as I have no choice > but to take further action."Quoted text (10 lines)
> > Finally. Mr. McArthur says: "The reason I show my disgust when the Pabst > Racing issue comes up is because I am... disgusted that they are doing > it, and getting away with it. It is a free forum and I am free to > express my thoughts on this issue correct?" > > Yes, it's a free forum; I just wished to point out that once you take > that irrevocable step into the realm of litigation, or someone else > brings suit against you everything you say in public is fair game. >Tim McArthur wrote:
>
> I think most are very bored with this dispute as it has been going on since
> June of this year.
> I have no reason to justify my actions
Well, that's what *I* would have thought, but *you're* the one who's
been bringing it up over and over again in RAS "since June of this
year". See my remarks concerning "crying wolf."
> This is going to have to be settle via attorneys as there is just
> no logic behind Pabst and his organization.
What I said. So if you're sincere about your message here, let's not
hear any more about it until it *is* settled in a court of law. Sounds
like that would satisfy everybody.
Barton I respect what you have to say here but you can always willingly NOT
read these threads you know. If you do not want to hear any more of this
subject, take it upon yourself to stop reading the threads that have to do
with (I picked a few words that you can filter using your new-reader) "Sears
Group, Pabst, Pabst Racing, Sears Point, Tim McArthur, and Tom Pabst". If
you really want to be 100% sure, then filter the following "Nascar Racing 3,
Grand Prix Legends, Auto Simulator, Online Racing", and just about any other
word currently in print in the newsgroup.
As you stated in an earlier post, this issue (actually you were talking
about Jeff's article) directly effects sim-racing. Not only the third-party
authors but also the game developers and end-users. If a person is allowed
to "steal" other people's work (third-party or not) and use it to start a
business (or to copy to a CD and package it for sale at your local software
store), then the sim-racing community and software business as we know it is
going to change dramatically.
"Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Tim McArthur wrote:
> >
> > I think most are very bored with this dispute as it has been going onsince
Quoted text (13 lines)
> > June of this year. > > I have no reason to justify my actions > > Well, that's what *I* would have thought, but *you're* the one who's > been bringing it up over and over again in RAS "since June of this > year". See my remarks concerning "crying wolf." > > > This is going to have to be settle via attorneys as there is just > > no logic behind Pabst and his organization. > > What I said. So if you're sincere about your message here, let's not > hear any more about it until it *is* settled in a court of law. Sounds > like that would satisfy everybody.Tim McArthur wrote:
>
> Barton I respect what you have to say here...
Well, I appreciate that! As it's obvious that you're not going to "stop
responding to this very old, tired subject", please allow me one more observation:
Again, you state "If a person is allowed to 'steal' other people's work
(third-party or not) and use it to start a business (or to copy to a CD
and package it for sale at your local software store), then the
sim-racing community and software business as we know it is going to
change dramatically."
*If* that was the case, I'd have to agree with your conclusion regarding
the consequences, but once again, you've publicly charged Mr. Pabst with
stealing intellectual property for his own gain without providing any
compelling argument or evidence that supports those charges -- and those
are very serious charges indeed. Mr. Downey's article appears on the
surface, at least, to offer a much more plausible explanation of events
-- but what do *I* know? We all only "know" what we read here, and
anybody can write what they want. That's the beauty AND the danger of an
anonymous forum like this.
Agreed.
Good day Barton :-)
"Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Tim McArthur wrote:
> >
> > Barton I respect what you have to say here...
>
> Well, I appreciate that! As it's obvious that you're not going to "stop
> responding to this very old, tired subject", please allow me one moreobservation:
Quoted text (16 lines)
> > Again, you state "If a person is allowed to 'steal' other people's work > (third-party or not) and use it to start a business (or to copy to a CD > and package it for sale at your local software store), then the > sim-racing community and software business as we know it is going to > change dramatically." > > *If* that was the case, I'd have to agree with your conclusion regarding > the consequences, but once again, you've publicly charged Mr. Pabst with > stealing intellectual property for his own gain without providing any > compelling argument or evidence that supports those charges -- and those > are very serious charges indeed. Mr. Downey's article appears on the > surface, at least, to offer a much more plausible explanation of events > -- but what do *I* know? We all only "know" what we read here, and > anybody can write what they want. That's the beauty AND the danger of an > anonymous forum like this.David wrote:
>
> Well if Tim's statments are true they are not slander or libel.
Yes, well *that's* the point, isn't it -- "If Tim's statements are
true"? Anybody can say anything here and say "that's true!" If Tim's
statements, as you and he have presented them, are true, then Mr.
Downey's statements are by definition false.
While I understand and respect your point of view, it seems to me that
the ONLY way anyone's going to get to the truth about this situation --
whatever it is -- will be through legal action. Anything that anyone
says on this subject that isn't independently verifiable is just chin music.
One question that does not seem to be mentioned. Mr. Pabst "appears"
to be charging a fee for the use of NASCAR3 as a production tool.
And says they are developing a software tool to aid reconfiguring
race tracks.
Would he need permision from Papyrus to do this? And has he done so?
Do they have their own program in development or are they going to
continue to use N3.
This would seem to be a seperate issue from the argument between the
two parties. But is an interesting point.
buzard
"Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Anyone having an interest in this dispute between Mr. McArthur and Mr.
> Pabst -- and I think anyone interested in the future of sim-racing
> *should* have an interest in it -- might want to take a look at Jeff
> Downey's article from "Operation Sports":
>
> http://www.operationsports.com/reviewvault/articlesfull.asp?featureid=94
Barton Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in article
<[email hidden]>...
music.
>
You are correct there, legal action will solve the issue of who is lieing.
It does take money to bring about a law suit and well it appears that
neither have the money or neither have the evidence to bring the suit to
court. I have been a party to a suit involving some rental property and
well after winning a summery judgement I did find out how hard it is to get
money out of someone who has none.
Personally I can see why Tim has not brought suit against Tom. I cannot see
how Tom has not done the same. Number one if Tom is correct well his
company is suffer due to this banter here and he cannot afford that since
it will affect the ablility to generate revinue for his company. Why has
Tom not taken Tim to court since with his companies net worth of 50 million
dollars he certainly can afford to bring suit and well if Mr. Downey is
correct Tim's statments are effecting Tom company's bottom ling then he
needs to. The only rub here is if Tom Pabst does not have a leg to stand on
it court and then well bringing suit against Tim would not be advisable
since it would do more harm to Tom's company then all this banter is.
As for Mr. Downey's assertion that Tim is not going to make more tracks,
well Tim actaully has. Admittedly he has not gone to the effort that it
took to make Sears Point. He could not have with Desert Winds since there
is not real track its based on, and well Trenton I do not think is around
anymore, but the fact remains is Tim has made a few tracks since that
happened. Also for Mr. Downey's stating that this banter here will make
game companies not go to the extremes Tim and Tom did to make Sears Point
so authentic, well I doubt a game company can afford to spend the money to
do what Tim and Tom did.
Anyway Mr. Downey's article is old news and well this whole deal is old
news. I would have thought if Tom Pabst had a case well he would have been
to court to make Tim be quiet or go somewhere else. Especially if I had
taken Mr. Downey's views as true , then I would say Tom Pabst would
accomplish winning the suit and have an injunction against Tim releasing or
even talking about the project they worked on together that made a
realistic Sears Point. Has not happened yet has it.
Well I say enough is enough on this since its getting to be a bunch of
mental masterbation anyway.
Dave
Quoted text (13 lines)
> David wrote: > > > > Well if Tim's statments are true they are not slander or libel. > > Yes, well *that's* the point, isn't it -- "If Tim's statements are > true"? Anybody can say anything here and say "that's true!" If Tim's > statements, as you and he have presented them, are true, then Mr. > Downey's statements are by definition false. > > While I understand and respect your point of view, it seems to me that > the ONLY way anyone's going to get to the truth about this situation -- > whatever it is -- will be through legal action. Anything that anyone > says on this subject that isn't independently verifiable is just chinWell that is valid, I guess have said cannot have a valid law suit for
calling someone what they are.
Dave
rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in article
<[email hidden]>...
> On 7 Dec 2000 00:39:16 GMT, "David" <[email hidden]>wrote:
Quoted text (7 lines)
> > >calling someone a theif who is a theif is not illegal and well you > >cannot sue someone for calling you what you are. > > Incorrect. You can sue -anyone- for -any- reason. > >Funny that you never seem to mention how you came about acquiring that
capability...
--
Eric
"Tim McArthur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:mBwX5.510335$[email hidden]...
> 1) I have the capability to create tracks for N3/NL
To all r.a.s. readers:
"From January to April, 2000, Tim McArthur worked with Tom Pabst, Bob Davis,
Dave McEntee, Clark Brownstein, Allen Boyd, Bob Rowden, Ralph Alexander and
several other individuals in developing the Sears99 track simulation and 3
other modifications to that track for Sears Point Raceway and one for
Rockingham - UK. We called ourselves "SearsGroup." All of us, including
Mr. McArthur, signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement, clearly stating "this work"
belonged to SearsGroup and agreeing not to release any of it to the public.
Mr. McArthur voluntarily left the group in April 2000 and has since violated
that agreement, repeatedly. To date, SearsGroup has not been paid be either
client for any of that work. If and when that should occur, Mr. McArthur
will be reimbursed for the portion of the work he actually did."
Jointly signed,
Tom Pabst, [[email hidden]] SearsGroup and Pabst-Racing.com;
Bob Davis, [[email hidden]] SearsGroup and Davis Architectural
(Sears Point Raceway track architect);
Dave McEntee, [[email hidden]] SearsGroup and Jim Russell School
Racing Instructor;
Ralph Alexander, [[email hidden]] SearsGroup-Chief Of Test
Drivers, Real-World Track Testing and NASA Chief Of Instructors;
Clark Brownstein, [[email hidden]] SearsGroup and PR.com Sim Rentals
Manager;
Allen Boyd, [[email hidden]] SearsGroup and PR.com Chief Of Test
Drivers;
Bob Rowden, [[email hidden]] SearsGroup and PR.com Webmaster.
************************************************************************
"Humberto C. Soares" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:uEXW5.52561$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (10 lines)
> This is a new GPL simulator developed by this company out in California > that > > is redesigning Sears Point > > > > > http://www.pabst-racing.com/ > >Intentional Eric :-)
"Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:90n5g6$aa7$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (12 lines)
> Funny that you never seem to mention how you came about acquiring that > capability... > > -- > Eric > > > "Tim McArthur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:mBwX5.510335$[email hidden]... > > 1) I have the capability to create tracks for N3/NL > >Humberto....
I think it is indeed unfortunate that your "post".....that I believe was
about the Lotus-49 simulator you saw pictures of on our website......and you
thought it was interesting.....turned into this mess we find below.
I think a response and explanation about the Lotus.....from me
personally....is in order and certainly due you.
I am not sure how or why you visited our website....since it is marked as
"under construction".....but we are not stopping anyone from visiting while
we are building the site.........so I guess that doesn't really matter. The
pictures on the right-side of the main page.....were simply put there as
"place holders" for that section...which will contain current and late
breaking news eventually. They are indeed, pictures of our Lotus-49
simulator.....and as one of the picture's caption reads.....the people
racing in her are some of the managers and owners at the Jim Russell Racing
School at Sears Point Raceway (our home track...so to speak). The Lotus-49
simulator.....is in the front living room of my house....it was a "sim
racing party" of sorts......with the Lotus being LAN connected to two
full-size, F1 cockpits also in my house (but not pictured) with the LAN
being Internet connected so we could all race with our Test Drivers from all
over the country (actually, from all over the world). It was a fun
night.....and one those Russell School guys have asked to us to repeat it!
We are trying to do that........
This Lotus sim car has nothing to do with anything posted
below......Bulldozer, or SearsGroup....or anything with regard to the recent
"press" we've gotten about the construction going on at Sears Point Raceway.
That is another division of work that we do....and the Lotus is not part of
that in any way!
But......I'm sure you want to hear about the Lotus....so let me explain it
to you....and why we do have it.
First, it is not just a "simulated race car"......but its not a real Lotus
either.....but sort of? This car (the simulator) was built originally by
Ball Racing in England last winter. It was constructed entirely from
fiberglass and aluminum molds....made directly from a real Lotus-49. It is
so authentic...that the serial number for all the suspension parts....are
actually molded onto the suspension parts on the simulator as well. There
was a real Lotus-49 vintage race car that had been in a wreck....and was
being repaired (at a shop near Ball Racing's operations in England). The
car was to be disassembled for nearly a year.....and Ball Racing got
permission to make the molds from her parts! So....I guess you could
say.....the Lotus-49 simulator is an exact replica of a real Lotus-49 (I'm
not sure which car it was in the sequence of them being built......it is
sitting right next to me....maybe someone could tell from the serial
numbers......hang on ......I'll go write them down, brb. The left wheel
hub-upright - my term - not sure if that is correct or not....is serial
#43-2315 ...but it is hard to read in the light in this room...it could be
49-9315...?). The car is beautiful.....and it is painted with every detail
of Clark's number 5 car (as far as I can tell from all the pictures I've
seen of her). The sim equipment in her is very high-tech.....its got Ball
Racing's best stuff (BRD does show-car conversions for Ford Motors....and
many other automotive companies...as well as for several real-world F1
teams). The peddles (three) are on a motorized track so they can be
adjusted to suit the driver with the touch of a button while in the cockpit.
The wheel and shifter are all authentic (but we have the shifter disengaged
for GPL)....and both are full force-feedback devices. This is not "store
bought" retail game controllers I'm talking about........this is the real
thing...but connected to electronic "boxes" that convert them into signals
the computer can read (this is Ball Racing's forte!).......and quite real in
their feel and touch (I have driven a real Lotus....1968 version.....this
car is very real in its feel)! In the pictures you see on our website, we
were using a regular 19" monitor for a "sim screen"....but we also have a
60" big-screen TV we use and a 40" plasma screen (both were too big for my
living room.....lol).
Why do we have this car?
That is a simple question with multiple answers. First, the past summer we
(Pabst-Racing.com) were appointed by Ball Racing as their North American
Distributor for their sim cars....and their "sim controllers" which will be
available for retail sale this Spring (the real stuff they use in their
"converted" show cars....but priced at normal retail controller
prices....they won't break the bank....like an ECCI or TSW might do you).
We will also be doing all their "show car" conversions for auto
manufacturers here in the United States. And, we will be handling all of
the show and convention race car simulator "rentals" here in the US, and
Mexico. Specifically, the Lotus was shipped over to us because it was put
on display at the American LeMans race here at Sears Point last summer. It
was a huge "hit".....not only with the public (who we let drive it for
limited periods of time each day)....but all of the ALMS drivers and crew
who kept us up all hours of the night.....so they could race in her when
their work was done on their own teams! At one point on Friday afternoon,
we had a line about 100 feet long......with kids and dads and moms....and
some ALMS drivers still in their driving suits.......just to sign up to race
in the Lotus! I'm not kidding you....it was an unbelievable sight to see!
We exclusively ran her with GPL, the entire weekend (including the SPR
version for GPL which is not yet public....but it will be)!
Since the ALMS race.....she has been mostly apart in her various pieces.
Our goal is to find a way to create a low-cost "kit-car" if you might like
to call it that........that we can produce to be used in the same way this
"original simulator" is being used.....as a sim race car cockpit! This is
the "task" Ball Racing has assigned to us.....and we are working on that
every week in our simulator shop her in the Sears Point area. This original
"copy" of the Lotus-49....cost nearly $30,000 (USD) to create! We are
trying to get a "kit-car" version so it could be sold for around $3,000 to
$4,000.......and distribute it from here in the US. It wouldn't look any
different than the one you see in the pictures......it might not have the
same controls....and you'd have to assemble and paint it yourself....but it
would be in a "kit form"....and all the assembly instructions and tools
would be included.
So, that is the "story" on the Lotus-49 car you see in the pictures on our
website.......the one you posted below.
I would like to add that we are not designing the "kit-car" as some big
profit motive.....as some might like to suggest. In fact, in order to keep
the cost under our "target"......we'll probably just break-even on parts,
labor and the development costs. Why are we doing this? Well, first of
all....we need to make more of these cars (in a lower cost version) for the
sim rental business (the Lotus is very popular with the corporate rental
market).....so we felt making some kind of "kit" would be the best way for
us to "reproduce" the car for the rental fleet at a lower cost. There isn't
a big enough market for people who would actually buy the "kit-car" from
us.....even if we made a profit....not more than a few dozen "kits" would be
sold anyway (that's our guess at this point). In it's "rental trim".....the
Lotus rents for about $2,000 per day! That does have a nice profit....and
compared to the profit from selling a few dozen units......its not even in
the same league. So, we don't need to make money off the kit-car.....and we
figure anyone who would buy one of them.....would be good advertising for
the rental business anyway. I'd sure love to get a picture in my email some
day.......maybe of Eric Cote....or George Sandman.....driving the Lotus in
their living room.....racing you guys on VROC! Heck, there's not a "money
amount" I could put a figure too.....that would compare to how that would
make me feel......if I had something to do with having that become a
reality! I'm not a huge Formula One fan....as I've stated many times (my
real racing career was in closed wheel GT type race cars).....but I've raced
with you guys on VROC (SpyBoy) in GPL since the day it was released.....and
it would be totally cool to see some of you die-hard vintage formula one sim
drivers.....get the opportunity to have a real (copy) full size Lotus 49 to
race in at your home.........instead of your desktop or some wooden frame!
That would be cool! I'm trying to make sure that can happen.
Anyway, Humberto....I hope this was the kind of information you were hoping
to get about the Lotus....from your post. Again, I'm sorry for al this
garbage posted below.....it is such a waste of time......but maybe in some
way....it has a purpose? It just doesn't seem so to me now. I have a lot
of pictures of the Lotus sim car.....if you would like them....send me an
email and I'll attach a few of them to your reply.
My best regards,
Tom Pabst
Pabst-Racing.com
"Humberto C. Soares" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:uEXW5.52561$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (10 lines)
> This is a new GPL simulator developed by this company out in California > that > > is redesigning Sears Point > > > > > http://www.pabst-racing.com/ > >On Wed, 6 Dec 2000 23:59:52 -0500, "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>Funny that you never seem to mention how you came about acquiring that
>capability...
You're making me curious Eric...
Andre
Quoted text (10 lines)
> >-- >Eric > > >"Tim McArthur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:mBwX5.510335$[email hidden]... >> 1) I have the capability to create tracks for N3/NL > >Francois....
I wonder if "participated in"......is different than "subject
of"........flame wars? I find nothing "fun" as you say, about this at all.
You must mean, "fun" for someone else?
Tom
PS: You and I have been trading email....and r.a.s. newsgroup "posts" since
what, 1997 or 1998? This is only the second time (I checked) that you and I
have "disagreed" about something important! God, I can't believe I just
admitted that in public! .....lol..... Take care my friend.....
"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:ItdX5.38797$i%[email hidden]...
> >"Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote
> > Wasn't this whole schlemozzle featured in a mid-level flame war here in
> > ras just a few weeks ago?
>
> Yes, and maybe this time we can feature a high-level flame war here inras.
realise
> how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.
>
>
>
Quoted text (14 lines)
> I've never seen one here, but participated in others around the Usenet. > They are fun :) > > > <ps: Derek Smart isn't smart> > > /ignites bow-torch > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.WeRace.net > -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't
Ron Ayton wrote:
LMAO
> Regarding Byron, i havn't heard from him for over 12 months now, so i
> am not sure where he dissapeared to.
> Maybe he was foolish enough to take the trek to the central village and
> the cannibals got him.... <G>
Shame, I really enjoyed his posts, not to mention that he was one of
those persons who could come up with an "industrial strength flame", as
someone in here once said....:-)
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com
Quoted text (9 lines)
> > Hmmmm, you could be right too Goy, but it has been a while since i > went to the big central village, so i am just guessing when i say that, > "i think in some of the upmarket areas of the central village, there > are now straw & mud dwellings appearing on both sides of the goat > track." > But don't quote me on that, as i don't take the trek into the central > village all that much, as the cannibals are still a bit aggro in the > outer steppes... :)Hmmmm, you could be right too Goy, but it has been a while since i
went to the big central village, so i am just guessing when i say that,
"i think in some of the upmarket areas of the central village, there
are now straw & mud dwellings appearing on both sides of the goat
track."
But don't quote me on that, as i don't take the trek into the central
village all that much, as the cannibals are still a bit aggro in the
outer steppes... :)
Regarding Byron, i havn't heard from him for over 12 months now, so i
am not sure where he dissapeared to.
Maybe he was foolish enough to take the trek to the central village and
the cannibals got him.... <G>
Cheers,
Ron Ayton
Australia
Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in article
<[email hidden]>...
left,
> > > miss the old bloke, all these other attempts have been prettypathetic
> > > really :-)
> >
> > That's really funny. I was just thinking about him the other day.
> > Wonder whatever became of Byron? Maybe Bruce knows, IIRC he wasfrom
> > down his way somewhere. ;-)
>
> Of course he knows him, Australia isn't *that* big is it ?
>
> Although rumor has it that they have houses on both sides of theroads
> in most cities these days, and Bruce is probably too old to rememberwho
Quoted text (7 lines)
> > > Uncle Fester wrote: > > > > Goy Larsen wrote: > > > > > Pah, we haven't had a good flame war in here since Byron ForbesQuoted text (12 lines)
> Byron is anyway.... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * > "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com >Funny that you find it something to smile about.
Tim McArthur wrote:
Quoted text (15 lines)
> > Intentional Eric :-) > > "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:90n5g6$aa7$[email hidden]... > > Funny that you never seem to mention how you came about acquiring that > > capability... > > > > -- > > Eric > > > > > > "Tim McArthur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:mBwX5.510335$[email hidden]... > > > 1) I have the capability to create tracks for N3/NLJust a small comment from a neutral observer........
I hope that you are receiving very sound and professional legal advice, Tim.
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------
Tim McArthur <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:9GBX5.511116$[email hidden]...
>
> As you stated in an earlier post, this issue (actually you were talking
> about Jeff's article) directly effects sim-racing. Not only the
third-party
> authors but also the game developers and end-users. If a person is allowed
> to "steal" other people's work (third-party or not) and use it to start a
> business (or to copy to a CD and package it for sale at your local
software
> store), then the sim-racing community and software business as we know it
is
> going to change dramatically.
>
Tom,
It is quite possible that the moulds for this "car" came from Chassis No.
49/R3.
The reason I state this is because of the fact that 49/R3 was sold to the
(British) National Motor Museum in 1985 (still there) and was regularly
demonstrated.
It was badly damaged in a freak accident, caused by a misfire, in June 1998
in which the tub was twisted and several suspension components were broken.
It was beautifully restored by Hall & Fowler and now remains the only
surviving example of a completely original spec. Lotus 49 anywhere in the
world.
Note.
49/R3 was raced by Graham from the 1967 British GP to the 1968 South African
GP. It was sold to South African John Love, who owned and raced it until
June 1970, after which it went to Peter Parnell, who continued to punt it
around S.A. until mid-September of that year. He defaulted omn paying John
for the car so Mr. Love resumed ownership and held onto the car (it was
stored in a shed at his home!) until 1981, when it arrived in London in
January and into the arms of the new owner, Michael Lavers, a well-respected
dealer in fine automotive machinery.
It was sold to a Mr. Hayashi, of Japan and it ran in two historic events at
Suzuka and Fuji before being sold to the National Motor Museum and
"returning home" in March 1985.
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------
Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:S0HX5.512647$[email hidden]...
> >
> First, it is not just a "simulated race car"......but its not a real Lotus
> either.....but sort of? This car (the simulator) was built originally by
> Ball Racing in England last winter. It was constructed entirely from
> fiberglass and aluminum molds....made directly from a real Lotus-49. It
is
> so authentic...that the serial number for all the suspension parts....are
> actually molded onto the suspension parts on the simulator as well. There
> was a real Lotus-49 vintage race car that had been in a wreck....and was
> being repaired (at a shop near Ball Racing's operations in England). The
> car was to be disassembled for nearly a year.....and Ball Racing got
> permission to make the molds from her parts! So....I guess you could
> say.....the Lotus-49 simulator is an exact replica of a real Lotus-49 (I'm
> not sure which car it was in the sequence of them being built......it is
> sitting right next to me....maybe someone could tell from the serial
> numbers......hang on ......I'll go write them down, brb. The left wheel
> hub-upright - my term - not sure if that is correct or not....is serial
> #43-2315 ...but it is hard to read in the light in this room...it could be
> 49-9315...?). The car is beautiful.....and it is painted with every
detail
> of Clark's number 5 car (as far as I can tell from all the pictures I've
> seen of her).
>"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote
> I wonder if "participated in"......is different than "subject
> of"........flame wars? I find nothing "fun" as you say, about this atall.
> You must mean, "fun" for someone else?
Noooo... flame wars are entertaining. Like I typed, I've never seen a
"real" high-level flame war in this NG, but participated (as in.. be
involved, take part) in some. It's fun. It's a psychological challenge, a
way to create a symbiose between you and a thing called the *Usenet*.
> PS: You and I have been trading email....and r.a.s. newsgroup "posts"since
> what, 1997 or 1998? This is only the second time (I checked) that you andI
> have "disagreed" about something important! God, I can't believe I just
> admitted that in public! .....lol..... Take care my friend.....
"Disagree" is vague ;-)
Some people can agree but not totally, or disagree just a little.
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.
>Noooo... flame wars are entertaining. Like I typed, I've never seen a
>"real" high-level flame war in this NG, but participated (as in.. be
>involved, take part) in some. It's fun. It's a psychological challenge, a
>way to create a symbiose between you and a thing called the *Usenet*.
ym, the only thing it ever does for me is make my killfile larger. I don't
read these newsgroups to read "high-level" flames. If I want a psychological
challenge I'll play You Don't Know Jack. Or I'll race.
Dave Casey
Casey_94 (NASCAR Racing 3 & 4)
www.teamcasey.net
www.lvkc.com
www.buycoolcrap.com
Bruce....
Thank you very much for this information. You are clearly "the man" to talk
to about historical Lotus-49 (at least that car....maybe others too?). I am
passing this information on to Ball Racing in England....hoping they can
confirm some or all of the "origin" issues of the Lotus-49 they used to
create molds for the sim car I have in my living room. I will include your
email address so Tim Ball (the one most likely to contact you) can email you
directly if he has further questions or needs additional information. I
have added your name to my email address book...under a tab that will
identify you so I can send any pertinent information I receive from Ball
Racing directly to you (and anyone else who might be interested in getting
this info...send me your email address, too).
I am very much interested in determining the "lineage" of this
Lotus-49...which we will make into "kit-car" sims for a few people to
enjoy....and for our rental fleet. Your "post" today has initiated that
process. Thank you very much.....for "building a fire under me" to get this
going!
Regards,
Tom Pabst
Pabst-Racing.com
PS: The Lotus-49 sim cockpit is going to have its own "photo pages" on
PR.com. Even though the site is not ready for public visitation....I am
going to put some or all of the photos we have of her....up on a temp page
and put the URL for it in a post here. It might take me a day or two to
accomplish this....but I will notify you when it is done.
"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
1998
> in which the tub was twisted and several suspension components werebroken.
African
> GP. It was sold to South African John Love, who owned and raced it until
> June 1970, after which it went to Peter Parnell, who continued to punt it
> around S.A. until mid-September of that year. He defaulted omn paying John
> for the car so Mr. Love resumed ownership and held onto the car (it was
> stored in a shed at his home!) until 1981, when it arrived in London in
> January and into the arms of the new owner, Michael Lavers, awell-respected
> dealer in fine automotive machinery.
>
> It was sold to a Mr. Hayashi, of Japan and it ran in two historic eventsat
Lotus
> > either.....but sort of? This car (the simulator) was built originallyby
> > Ball Racing in England last winter. It was constructed entirely from
> > fiberglass and aluminum molds....made directly from a real Lotus-49. It
> is
> > so authentic...that the serial number for all the suspensionparts....are
> > actually molded onto the suspension parts on the simulator as well.There
> > was a real Lotus-49 vintage race car that had been in a wreck....and was
> > being repaired (at a shop near Ball Racing's operations in England).The
> > car was to be disassembled for nearly a year.....and Ball Racing got
> > permission to make the molds from her parts! So....I guess you could
> > say.....the Lotus-49 simulator is an exact replica of a real Lotus-49(I'm
> > not sure which car it was in the sequence of them being built......it is
> > sitting right next to me....maybe someone could tell from the serial
> > numbers......hang on ......I'll go write them down, brb. The left wheel
> > hub-upright - my term - not sure if that is correct or not....is serial
> > #43-2315 ...but it is hard to read in the light in this room...it couldbe
> > 49-9315...?). The car is beautiful.....and it is painted with every
> detail
> > of Clark's number 5 car (as far as I can tell from all the pictures I've
> > seen of her).
>
>
Quoted text (8 lines)
> Tom, > It is quite possible that the moulds for this "car" came from Chassis No. > 49/R3. > > The reason I state this is because of the fact that 49/R3 was sold to the > (British) National Motor Museum in 1985 (still there) and was regularly > demonstrated. > It was badly damaged in a freak accident, caused by a misfire, in JuneQuoted text (7 lines)
> > It was beautifully restored by Hall & Fowler and now remains the only > surviving example of a completely original spec. Lotus 49 anywhere in the > world. > > Note. > 49/R3 was raced by Graham from the 1967 British GP to the 1968 SouthQuoted text (13 lines)
> Suzuka and Fuji before being sold to the National Motor Museum and > "returning home" in March 1985. > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:S0HX5.512647$[email hidden]... > > > > > First, it is not just a "simulated race car"......but its not a real>"Dave Casey" <[email hidden]> wrote
> ym, the only thing it ever does for me is make my killfile larger. Idon't
> read these newsgroups to read "high-level" flames. If I want apsychological
> challenge I'll play You Don't Know Jack. Or I'll race.
Bah.... don't be dull ;-)
A full-scale flame-war is not something you'll killfile people. You will
accept it's presence, it is necessary for the own mental sake of hardcore
Usenet freaks (people like me who check out hundreds of NG). ;-)
--
-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.
Good heavens, Tom....you are crediting me with being the fount of Lotus
knowledge and that is far from the truth!
I simply have a reasonable reference library and in amongst all the books
that mention Lotus is possibly the Type 49 bible....."Lotus 49, The Story Of
A Legend", by Michael Oliver.
The information in my previous post was gleaned from the appendix which
catalogues the history of each chassis.
I was glad to be able to provide you with the details.
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------
Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:8xXX5.515793$[email hidden]...
> Bruce....
>
> Thank you very much for this information. You are clearly "the man" to
talk
> to about historical Lotus-49 (at least that car....maybe others too?).
Bruce...
Whether you like it or not.....we are "appointing you"....our **Official
Lotus-49 Historian**. Its a non-paying position...so don't get too excited!
.....lol....
Seriously, I hope I can communicate with you about any information we get
back from Ball Racing.....this is important to me to find out the lineage on
the car that the "sim Lotus" was molded from.
Regards,
Tom
"Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Good heavens, Tom....you are crediting me with being the fount of Lotus
> knowledge and that is far from the truth!
>
> I simply have a reasonable reference library and in amongst all the books
> that mention Lotus is possibly the Type 49 bible....."Lotus 49, The StoryOf
Quoted text (22 lines)
> A Legend", by Michael Oliver. > > The information in my previous post was gleaned from the appendix which > catalogues the history of each chassis. > > I was glad to be able to provide you with the details. > > -- > Regards, > Bruce Kennewell, > Canberra, Australia. > --------------------------- > > Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8xXX5.515793$[email hidden]... > > Bruce.... > > > > Thank you very much for this information. You are clearly "the man" to > talk > > to about historical Lotus-49 (at least that car....maybe others too?). > >Well...I have no problem with assisting with information where and when I
can, Tom.
Please feel free to contact me.
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------
Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:3NdY5.1125$[email hidden]...
> Bruce...
>
> Whether you like it or not.....we are "appointing you"....our **Official
> Lotus-49 Historian**. Its a non-paying position...so don't get too
excited!
> .....lol....
>
> Seriously, I hope I can communicate with you about any information we get
> back from Ball Racing.....this is important to me to find out the lineage
on
> the car that the "sim Lotus" was molded from.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> > Good heavens, Tom....you are crediting me with being the fount of Lotus
> > knowledge and that is far from the truth!
> >
> > I simply have a reasonable reference library and in amongst all the
books
> > that mention Lotus is possibly the Type 49 bible....."Lotus 49, The
Story
> Of
> > A Legend", by Michael Oliver.
> >
> > The information in my previous post was gleaned from the appendix which
> > catalogues the history of each chassis.
> >
> > I was glad to be able to provide you with the details.
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Bruce Kennewell,
> > Canberra, Australia.
> > ---------------------------
> >
> > Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > news:8xXX5.515793$[email hidden]...
> > > Bruce....
> > >
> > > Thank you very much for this information. You are clearly "the man"
to
> > talk
> > > to about historical Lotus-49 (at least that car....maybe others too?).
> >
> >
>
>
