Papy Demo...

PapySUX wrote The same as the three incredible GPL demos (Monza duel, Car wrecks into a fence and the GPL in-car lap at the Glen). The same as the millions of people who paid (like me) eight dollars just to see the two minute Star Wars : Episode 1 trailer at the movies. Tell me where you saw October of 98. The first official announcment of N3 had a release date of Christmas 98. That's only two months ago remember. Not really. If you check it out it goes the same way as they marketed GPL. Oh and most of the current games have all the same problem of pushed dates and so. I mean your beating a dead horse here. GPL first release date : X-mas 97 N3 first release date : X-mas 98 GPL pushed date : Spring of 98 N3 pushed date : Spring of 99 GPL final release date : Fall of 98 N3 final release date : Fall of 99 Yeah the 3year old Ubisoft game engine. Yeah the 3year old EA Sports game engine. The SportsCar GT game engine who is similar to the X-Car game engine but realistic (not close GPL at all). Or the Codemaster canned physics. The only titles is the Microsoft Chicago car chases game and Trans-Am Racing. As for Rally99 and Grand Prix 3, we all know what happened to the "to hyped to be true" Cart:Precision Racing about good looking screenshots. Yeah EA Sports and the "little tweaked" Nascar 99 title now called Nascar Revolution. Game engine is full of canned routines and it's made for a more easy driving crowd. Oh with the marketing hype of such things as "THUNDER AI" "STACCATO SOUND". LOL sorry. -= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -= May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Pardon me, but why in the HELL do you want to see a non-playable "demo" of a non-existant game.?! Oh yeah,that's right, it'll be out in October. That will only put it about 1.5 years behind schedule. How many of you PAPY NASCAR freaks lustily waited for N3's release October of 98? How many of you were let down then? I'll admit I was one of 'em. Did you ever think you'd be wating another full year back then? Now I'm hoping some competition arrives on the scene. Those Papy boys did wonders with GPL, but even that game engine will be obsolete come the end of 1999. C'mon all you Auto-sim gamers! Quit kissing Papy's boots and start asking some of the other sim-makers for a NASCAR title. The more competition the better! It's time for a next generation driving sim and NASCAR is the perfect vehicle for delivering it. The fastest growing spectator sport, attended and watched by more people in the USA than the NBA, Major League Baseball, NHL, NCAA Football and Basketball and all other sports save the NFL deserve a top-notch sim. If tennis and soccer can have a decent sim why the hell can't NASCAR???! BTW Sierra, many thanks for the full refund for NR99. It lends credence to the old adage: "you get what you pay for".

Hey, I'm glad to see how the game is coming along. Some info is better then nothing. I'm disappointed that N3 is a ways away, but I'll hold my judgement for when it comes out. It'd be great to see some competition, and I hope Nascar Revolution is much better then the demo. However, since Papyrus is the only company making GOOD Nascar Simulations <for now> I'm glad they're still creating products. although I wish they'd work FASTER! -Richard

I invite you to take a look at the last majorly anticipated simulation: Falcon 4.0. Released before it was ready...and almost crippled by the endless list of bugs. NASCAR 3 will be ready when it's ready. S.C. "Gritz" Petty Spectre Racing http://members.xoom.com/Gritz/Spectre/spectreracing.htm

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>Pardon me, but why in the HELL do you want to see a non-playable "demo" of >a non-existant game.?! >Oh yeah,that's right, it'll be out in October. >That will only put it about 1.5 years behind schedule. >How many of you PAPY NASCAR freaks lustily waited for N3's release October >of 98? >How many of you were let down then? >I'll admit I was one of 'em. Did you ever think you'd be wating another >full year back then? >Now I'm hoping some competition arrives on the scene.

Personally I couldn't care less about NASCAR sims... I want them to do CART using their newest sim engine. Too bad Sega now has the *exclusive* rights to do the next CART computer program. More video game ***I suppose... from racer.com: ? CART has concluded an exclusive worldwide arrangement with Sega of America to produce computer software, game and video products based on the FedEx Championship Series

Karissa Thomas wrote Hmmm Papyrus did get a license for CART until 2001 no ? It may be a press release error or maybe "it will be exclusive at the end of their license". Let's hope it is. -= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -= May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Mmmmm - what exactly is going to beat it? Anything which is going to render that engine obsolete by end-99 better be almost finished now, and I've yet to see anything remotely close to it (and that having tried almost everything that's currently available or "on the way"). I'd be happy if something did come along that was "better" (although it's difficult to imagine what could be improved), but I'd _love_ to see a CART sim come out of that Papy engine. It's been done. We're still laughing. You've gotta be kidding me?! The perfect vehicle for delivering a driving sim is a 200mph school bus? I'd rather see a Formula Ford sim, F1, CART or even (if you must have tin-tops) a Touring Car or Sportscar sim. More varied cars, handling, tracks, styles. NASCAR sims are good, but I'd place a whole lot of things in the queue ahead of NASCAR as the perfect vehicle for a new engine. Some sports (like the two mentioned above or rallying) don't have any sim at all yet. They haven't, or at least tennis hasn't. I've yet to see a decent tennis sim, although FIFA'99 is a pretty good football sim. Cheers! John

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>You've gotta be kidding me?! The perfect vehicle for delivering a >driving sim is a 200mph school bus? I'd rather see a Formula Ford sim, >F1, CART or even (if you must have tin-tops) a Touring Car or >Sportscar sim. More varied cars, handling, tracks, styles. NASCAR sims >are good, but I'd place a whole lot of things in the queue ahead of >NASCAR as the perfect vehicle for a new engine. Some sports (like the >two mentioned above or rallying) don't have any sim at all yet.

I agree with you 100% John (again - heck this is getting boring), the GPL engine is so good at handling direction changes, braking & acceleration effects that enhancements of this engine would not be fully utilised in a Nascar sim (except for pit stops & recovering from wrecks). Now I know we are going to upset a lot of our friends across the water who just love Nascar to bits, but like you I would put Nascar way down the list as a flagship for an auto sim engine. The prospect of N3 just doesn't e*** me - I'd rather the resources were pumped into ICR3, or any number of open wheel or saloon car racing titles. What about on-line rallycross for testing friendships? Way off topic - but imagine a Papy sim using the GPL engine based on famous car chases! Cheers! Tony

On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:10:55 -0000, "Tony Rickard" >Way off topic - but imagine a Papy sim using the GPL engine based on famous >car chases! I'd like that idea - sort of Midtown Madness meets NFS3, sauteed with Sieera's driving instruction game but with the GPL physics engine thrown in. A soupcon of Carmageddon and a few massive online cities for us all to go mental in and Bob's your uncle. Picture it - a strategic alliance with Papyrus and Maxis(?) where Simcity 3000 fans can create cities online, linking together with other cities, and we can load up Papy's new sim and go drive in them :-) Some people pick supercars, others hot hatches, Mark gets his jam sandwich and chases us all :-) Any suggestions for tracks? 1) Bullit (of course) 2) The French Connection 3) The Driver (with Rhino Neal) 4) Speed (keep the NASCAR fans happy...) ;-) 5) Perm any two Bond movies! 6) Any Dukes of Hazzard episode On the subject of the Dukes of Hazzard, can anyone explain to me why their friends were named so lewdly? I'm thinking specifically of*** and***oris (okay, they were Enos and Cleetus but you get my drift). Cheers! John

> Way off topic - but imagine a Papy sim using the GPL engine based on famous > car chases! Gem of an idea... I'd buy it in a heartbeat... Trips

I thought it was til 2003. But regardless, I don't think Papyrus will do another CART sim by 2001. :? Let's hope its not....otherwise after no CART sims when 2001 gets reached, all we'll have is ***from Sega.

Maybe GP3? :) Actually, there are segments of GPL that are already obselete. However, the physics engine is going to be hard to beat in the next year or so. We'll see what comes out of the next round of sims such as TAR, GP3, etc.

Chris Schletter wrote like ? ;-) -= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -= May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Southern culture, if the Dukes of Hazzard was indeed that (and who knows if the writers actually knew much about the south) can be very scatological. Right now, thousands of Nascar fans are driving around with little windows stickers in their cars/trucks which depict a *** little boy pissing on a) a Ford logo b) a Chevy logo c) D. Earnhardt's car no. etc. Calendars and wall prints feturing children on toilets (innocent and voyeuristic at the same time, but generally referred to as "cute" by southern moms) are big sellers, as are *all* (and I mean ALL) sorts of decorations and accessories for the toilet. 'Tis a strange place . . . Although, I suppose, I'm generalizing wildly, the stuff is all over the place. Of course, this should not be shocking from the land that brought us Benny Hill . . . {:> dk PS Speaking of TV culture, has anyone heard that Jerry Falwell has a outed a member of one of the U.K.'s biggest cultural exports, the Teletubbies?

>Any suggestions for tracks? The roads in Francewhere the car chases for Ronin where shot. You did see Ronin dind't you? The best car chases in decades. Joe

John, I always make a point of reading your post as I appreciate your perspective and wit. I must admit and reply that this takes the cake. Anus and***oris! Is "Boss Hog" a not so subtle "Deliverance" reference? He does resemble Ned Beatty. As Jim Rome (a nationally syndicated U.S. sports radio talk show host) would say, "rack him!" I'm out. Jim

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> On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:10:55 -0000, "Tony Rickard" > On the subject of the Dukes of Hazzard, can anyone explain to me why > their friends were named so lewdly? I'm thinking specifically of*** > and***oris (okay, they were Enos and Cleetus but you get my drift). > Cheers! > John

% I agree with you 100% John (again - heck this is getting boring), the GPL % engine is so good at handling direction changes, braking & acceleration % effects that enhancements of this engine would not be fully utilised in a % Nascar sim (except for pit stops & recovering from wrecks). I think you are under-estimating the form of racing NASCAR is. Yeh, it's mostly ovals, but each one is unique and requires a completely different approach. I think that is what the new physics engine will finally provide us with. Think about Bristol or Martinsville... While Pocono doesn't have the double Lesmos, I hazard to guess that in real life, mastering this track is very similar to Monza in 1967. Don't tell me that Darlington doesn't require subtle body rolls which are controlled by subtle throttle and brake control... I say, hold this kind of judgement until you see the proof in the pudding. % Now I know we are going to upset a lot of our friends across the water who % just love Nascar to bits, but like you I would put Nascar way down the list % as a flagship for an auto sim engine. While it may seem that NASCAR is Papyrus' flagship, it's not and never was. It just happens to be the one product that brings home the bacon so we can have things like Grand Prix Legends. No way in hell, would we have seen the time, money, and effort pumped into the development of Grand Prix Legends, had NASCAR not been footing the bill. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see some other racing genres wrapped around Papy's engine. As it is, I am looking forward to CART much more than I am NASCAR. . . % The prospect of N3 just doesn't e*** me - I'd rather the resources were % pumped into ICR3, or any number of open wheel or saloon car racing titles. % What about on-line rallycross for testing friendships? -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Cars are from 1967, now that makes GP3's 1996 season look positively cutting edge!! lol :P

On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:41:27 GMT, "Michael E. Carver"

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>I think you are under-estimating the form of racing NASCAR is. Yeh, >it's mostly ovals, but each one is unique and requires a completely >different approach. I think that is what the new physics engine will >finally provide us with. Think about Bristol or Martinsville... While >Pocono doesn't have the double Lesmos, I hazard to guess that in real >life, mastering this track is very similar to Monza in 1967. Don't tell >me that Darlington doesn't require subtle body rolls which are >controlled by subtle throttle and brake control... >I say, hold this kind of judgement until you see the proof in the >pudding.

In no way would I deride NASCAR and say that it is "undeserving" of being simulated, the point was simply that if you want to showcase a new physics model it is far from being the number one option. Think, for example, of BTCC - light, nimble, fast accelerating, multiple car types, front, rear and four wheel drive, tracks from smooth to bumpy, flat to undulating, fast to twisty. Wet driving, large range of temperatures, 9 or 10 different engines and handling models, different types of races, from short sprints to longer runs with refuelling. I think NASCAR well simulated around Sears Point would be (will be) great, but I'd still rather see a Champ car around Road America, an F3 car at Macao, an F1 car round Suzuka, Touring cars at Brands Hatch, Sportscars at Lime Rock, it's a big list...! Is the above not a contradiction? NASCAR is "not" the flagship yet we've seen four different versions, trackpacks, it brings in all the money and footed the bill for the "GPL engine" development. I tend to think of GPL as a development engine for N3 with the new engine, so I suppose really we should consider GPL as using the N3 engine rather than vice-versa! :-) Cheers! John

The almighty dollar must speak now. NASCAR "is" the most popular form of racing in North America and that is what drives the beast. It only makes sense. If a new physics model was put on something else that didn't bring return on investment, it would have been done only for fun. -- Ed Coye Coye Consultants, Inc. >On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:41:27 GMT, "Michael E. Carver" >>I think you are under-estimating the form of racing NASCAR is. Yeh, >>it's mostly ovals, but each one is unique and requires a completely >>different approach. I think that is what the new physics engine will >>finally provide us with. Think about Bristol or Martinsville... While >>Pocono doesn't have the double Lesmos, I hazard to guess that in real >>life, mastering this track is very similar to Monza in 1967. Don't tell >>me that Darlington doesn't require subtle body rolls which are >>controlled by subtle throttle and brake control... >>I say, hold this kind of judgement until you see the proof in the >>pudding. >In no way would I deride NASCAR and say that it is "undeserving" of >being simulated, the point was simply that if you want to showcase a >new physics model it is far from being the number one option. >Think, for example, of BTCC - light, nimble, fast accelerating, >multiple car types, front, rear and four wheel drive, tracks from >smooth to bumpy, flat to undulating, fast to twisty. Wet driving, >large range of temperatures, 9 or 10 different engines and handling >models, different types of races, from short sprints to longer runs >with refuelling. >I think NASCAR well simulated around Sears Point would be (will be) >great, but I'd still rather see a Champ car around Road America, an F3 >car at Macao, an F1 car round Suzuka, Touring cars at Brands Hatch, >Sportscars at Lime Rock, it's a big list...! >>While it may seem that NASCAR is Papyrus' flagship, it's not and never >>was. It just happens to be the one product that brings home the bacon >>so we can have things like Grand Prix Legends. No way in hell, would we >>have seen the time, money, and effort pumped into the development of >>Grand Prix Legends, had NASCAR not been footing the bill. >Is the above not a contradiction? NASCAR is "not" the flagship yet >we've seen four different versions, trackpacks, it brings in all the >money and footed the bill for the "GPL engine" development. >I tend to think of GPL as a development engine for N3 with the new >engine, so I suppose really we should consider GPL as using the N3 >engine rather than vice-versa! :-) >Cheers! >John

> Any suggestions for tracks? > 1) Bullit (of course) > 2) The French Connection > 3) The Driver (with Rhino Neal) Yes please, got it on tape, watched it xxx number of times, there are some really cool scenes in this one How about "Shaker Run" with Cliff Robertson, movie stinks, but there's some good driving in there, made in New Zealand or something ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy

% In no way would I deride NASCAR and say that it is "undeserving" of % being simulated, the point was simply that if you want to showcase a % new physics model it is far from being the number one option. No arguement here, I wholeheartedly agree.... % Think, for example, of BTCC - light, nimble, fast accelerating, % multiple car types, front, rear and four wheel drive, tracks from % smooth to bumpy, flat to undulating, fast to twisty. Wet driving, % large range of temperatures, 9 or 10 different engines and handling % models, different types of races, from short sprints to longer runs % with refuelling. % Is the above not a contradiction? NASCAR is "not" the flagship yet % we've seen four different versions, trackpacks, it brings in all the % money and footed the bill for the "GPL engine" development. % I tend to think of GPL as a development engine for N3 with the new % engine, so I suppose really we should consider GPL as using the N3 % engine rather than vice-versa! :-) It's a "business" decision. I feel confident that if you sat Dave Kaemmer down at the nearest pub and had a heart-to-heart talk, you would know that his real passion would be for open wheel racing ala CART and not NASCAR. Papyrus is just doing the same thing you and I do, work at a job (hopefully one we can get some enjoyment from), so we can earn the money to do the things that we are really passionate about. NASCAR products is what greases the skids so Dave can produce the products he is passionate about. Unfortunately, none of the type of racing sims you mention will every come close to raking in the dough a NASCAR product will bring in. (And it doesn't even have to be a "good" NASCAR product.) It's sad, but it's true.... :-( So when I said "flagship", I was referring to the ship that Dave's heart sails on, not his pocketbook. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

We're not talking about ROI we're talking about the best showcase. More people in the U.S. may eat at McDonalds than anywhere else, but if you've just got the best chef in the world to work for your restaurant you probably don't want to showcase him via cheeseburgers... Cheers! John

David... That's all a gross generalization that many Southerners find offensive. Having been borne and raised in the South, I can assure you that there is a large element of the native population that, while recognizing that some what you described exists, find that behavior repulsive. Unfortunately, it's an image that television and other media has chosen to popularize, leading people to draw mistaken conclusions about the South. The moronic "Dukes of Hazzard" is one prime example. Another classic example that many of you may have seen: At the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta, you may recall that either at the opening or closing ceremonies, amidst all the festivities in Olympic Stadium, there was a bazaar parade of identical pickup trucks! You could almost hear the collective groan in Atlanta as that was broadcast! Clearly this was perpetuation of an inaccurate stereotype at its worst. Not only do we not all drive pickup trucks, but, quite the contrary. Some time ago, I read that Atlanta has the second highest per capita ownership of Mercedes-Benz automobiles in the U.S., trailing only Los Angeles (Note: I personally care noting about our status symbol ranking, but it certainly is inconsistent with the pickup truck image.) To many of us, "Southern culture" means hospitality, respect, warmth, gentility and none of what you described. Please keep that in mind.

Jack, I'm a "northerner" but this is the risk anyone runs with generalizations... doesn't matter what it's about. Someone else made a broad "Americans" generalization a few threads ago. Again, not smart. There are some folks (The Rodster comes to mind) who talk (or type) before they think... or maybe that's all they CAN think of. In that case, we should feel sorry for them and move on. CYA! :-) -_Dave

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> David... > That's all a gross generalization that many Southerners find offensive. > Having been borne and raised in the South, I can assure you that there is a > large element of the native population that, while recognizing that some > what you described exists, find that behavior repulsive. Unfortunately, it's > an image that television and other media has chosen to popularize, leading > people to draw mistaken conclusions about the South. The moronic "Dukes of > Hazzard" is one prime example. > Another classic example that many of you may have seen: At the 1996 Summer > Olympics in Atlanta, you may recall that either at the opening or closing > ceremonies, amidst all the festivities in Olympic Stadium, there was a > bazaar parade of identical pickup trucks! You could almost hear the > collective groan in Atlanta as that was broadcast! Clearly this was > perpetuation of an inaccurate stereotype at its worst. Not only do we not > all drive pickup trucks, but, quite the contrary. Some time ago, I read that > Atlanta has the second highest per capita ownership of Mercedes-Benz > automobiles in the U.S., trailing only Los Angeles (Note: I personally care > noting about our status symbol ranking, but it certainly is inconsistent > with the pickup truck image.) > To many of us, "Southern culture" means hospitality, respect, warmth, > gentility and none of what you described. Please keep that in mind.

-- Dave Schwabe The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site http://users.wi.net/~schwabe

Agreed. Just trying to limit the perpetuation of the myths. Frankly, I was a little surprised by David's post because, if I recall correctly, his posts are generally worthwhile, and frequently entertaining.

Jack, If you re-read my original post, you'll find that I noted that what I was writing was indeed a wild generalization. As a southerner myself, born and bred in Alabama, I assure you that I realize that the "Dukes of Hazzard" peddled a stereotype. But, also as a southerner, I realize that, for better or worse, stereotypes often cruelly contain a seed of truth. Too say that lots (and I mean LOTS) of pickup trucks around here have the pissing boy on them is not to say it's a universal thing--but unless you yourself are blind, you'll have to admit their popularity. Marginalized groups--and rural, poor southerners might well be called that (hence the resurgence of conservatism and "the politics of resentment" in the south)--often adopt such flouting of what the *** call "respectability" as a means of resistance. (Thus rap music among urban, poor African-Americans--and its watered-down adoption by suburban white ***s as a manifestation of their own rebellions against mom & pop.) I see the scatalogical references in southern pop-culture as much the same thing--a (unconscious?) protest against norms which are at some level being experienced as being "imposed." V.S. Naipul, in his book _A Turn in the South_ has a very perceptive, respectful and humane reading of "redneck" culture. Worth a look. So, sure, Atlanta (and Birmingham, and Savannah, and Nashville, etc) all contain large concentrations of the "new south," whose self-representation is well-intregrated into mainstream U.S. culture (if there can be said to be such a thing--perhaps this is what you mean by "hospitality, respect, warmth, gentility"--rather vague terms though, hardly exclusive to the south . . . ). But that doesn't mean rural culture has been wiped away. A peak at virtually any mid-to-small town mall's (and so the Buckhead Galleria is right out) "arts & crafts" will show that. What's interesting is to see how that very culture itself has become commodified and re-integrated back into southern suburban and urban culture. This is particularly visible in Nashville, which I just left after three years residence (having lived 30 years in Alabama prior to that). At any rate, it sounds like you find these aspects of "the south" more, as you wrote, "repulsive," than I do. But really, who wants, who needs uniformity? best, DK >David... >That's all a gross generalization that many Southerners find offensive. >Having been borne and raised in the South, I can assure you that there is a >large element of the native population that, while recognizing that some >what you described exists, find that behavior repulsive. Unfortunately, it's

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>an image that television and other media has chosen to popularize, leading >people to draw mistaken conclusions about the South. The moronic "Dukes of >Hazzard" is one prime example. >Another classic example that many of you may have seen: At the 1996 Summer >Olympics in Atlanta, you may recall that either at the opening or closing >ceremonies, amidst all the festivities in Olympic Stadium, there was a >bazaar parade of identical pickup trucks! You could almost hear the >collective groan in Atlanta as that was broadcast! Clearly this was >perpetuation of an inaccurate stereotype at its worst. Not only do we not >all drive pickup trucks, but, quite the contrary. Some time ago, I read

that

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>Atlanta has the second highest per capita ownership of Mercedes-Benz >automobiles in the U.S., trailing only Los Angeles (Note: I personally care >noting about our status symbol ranking, but it certainly is inconsistent >with the pickup truck image.) >To many of us, "Southern culture" means hospitality, respect, warmth, >gentility and none of what you described. Please keep that in mind.

generalization. When you paint a picture, especially as vividly and effectively as you do, David, but then follow your work with a claim that it may not be an accurate depiction, I think the damage is already done. It's the sense of uniformity that you and others depict with the Southern stereotypes that is so objectionable. " 'Tis a strange place..." struck me as if you were saying that because of the seemingly uniform and bizarre behavior you described, the South was, in fact, an odd place. Can we agree that almost any region you choose has its own odd (by any one man's interpretation) factions? So why perpetuate a *uniform* stereotype of the South, or any other region for that matter? Enough said on this off-topic subject. By the way, I thought your post on your girlfriend, her plastic baseball bat, and enhanced GPL realism was hysterical! Regards, Jack

Brought to you by the same director who brought you Grand Prix :-) -don

[Street driving game suggestions] Boston. Manhattan. LA. And what about them vehicles? Midtown Madness will let you drive an 18-wheeler, but why stop there? I suggest a transit bus (Speed), trash trucks (the prototypical Mack truck), front end loaders, backhoes, dump trucks.. Take care, Dave http://www1.shore.net/~dmoisan Invisible Disability: http://www1.shore.net/~dmoisan/invisible_disability.html GE Superradio FAQ: http://www1.shore.net/~dmoisan/faqs/superradio/gesr_faq.html

>More people in the U.S. may eat at McDonalds than anywhere else, but >if you've just got the best chef in the world to work for your >restaurant you probably don't want to showcase him via >cheeseburgers... UK 1 - USA: nill !! :-)) -- All the best, Edwin Solheim **remove spamguard in address to reply** Drop by "The Paddock - a legendary site....." for some cool GPL stuff! http://home.c2i.net/thepaddock

> 18-wheeler, but why stop there? I suggest a transit bus (Speed), > trash trucks (the prototypical Mack truck), front end loaders, > backhoes, dump trucks.. My favorite is the Hook and Ladder Fire Truck, with forward and aft driving stations... ;) -- Matthew V. Jessick Motorsims Vehicle Dynamics Engineer (972)910-8866, Fax: (972)910-8216

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:30:57 -0600, mjessick-Motorsims >My favorite is the Hook and Ladder Fire Truck, >with forward and aft driving stations... ;) There's a precedent: Atari put out an arcade game long ago (in the Kee Games B&W screen days) where you drove a ladder truck, complete with two separate positions for front and back. It could happen. :) Take care, Dave http://www1.shore.net/~dmoisan Invisible Disability: http://www1.shore.net/~dmoisan/invisible_disability.html GE Superradio FAQ: http://www1.shore.net/~dmoisan/faqs/superradio/gesr_faq.html