N3 Cable modem Leagues

Are there any N3 leagues being setup ? If so are any being restricted to Cable racers? -- Dave Long Memphis TN

That would be nice

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> Are there any N3 leagues being setup ? If so are any being restricted to > Cable racers? > -- > Dave Long > Memphis TN

This is a good idea. -Larry

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> Are there any N3 leagues being setup ? If so are any being restricted to > Cable racers? > -- > Dave Long > Memphis TN

Sorry if I'm stupid, but why restrict them to cable users? A regular telephone modem may not have the capability of hosting 30 cars in a race but you can join without causing troubles to others ? Right ? Robert

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> This is a good idea. > -Larry > > Are there any N3 leagues being setup ? If so are any being

restricted to

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> > Cable racers? > > -- > > Dave Long > > Memphis TN

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Frankly, because we want to :) -Larry

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> Sorry if I'm stupid, but why restrict them to cable users? A regular > telephone modem may not have the capability of hosting 30 cars in a race > but you can join without causing troubles to others ? Right ? > Robert > > This is a good idea. > > -Larry > > > Are there any N3 leagues being setup ? If so are any being > restricted to > > > Cable racers? > > > -- > > > Dave Long > > > Memphis TN > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I couldn't agree more Robert... This is just another way to further segregate the allready thinly spread on-line racing community.. I am sure this won't come to be, as any host that insists on only allowing cable connections to his server, is not only clueless, but also does not have the interests in promoting on-line play in mind at all.. There is nothing at all wrong with a dial-up connection for a client Robert, as you well know. :) and a dial-up connection can be equally as good, or even better than a cable connection from a client's viewpoint, when it is set up up right.. Maybe we should also ban anyone that doesn't have a 3 car garage and a 6 figure bank account as well..!!! Sort of reminds me of the hosts who insist on setting latency restrictions in GPL to less than 550ms as well, etc.. (see clueless) <G> Cheers, Ron > Sorry if I'm stupid, but why restrict them to cable users? A regular > telephone modem may not have the capability of hosting 30 cars in a race

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> but you can join without causing troubles to others ? Right ? > Robert > > This is a good idea. > > -Larry > > > Are there any N3 leagues being setup ? If so are any being > restricted to > > > Cable racers? > > > -- > > > Dave Long > > > Memphis TN > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I didn't say that there was anything wrong with a dial up connection, and I still have one with Concentric. But Cable modems are the future of our sport. So, I simply asked a simple question. By the way, I don't have a 3 car garage or a 6 figure bank account, and I am offended that you have incinuated that I am "clueless". Frankly, you don't know me from Adam !!! _ Dave Long Memphis TN

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> I couldn't agree more Robert... > This is just another way to further segregate the allready thinly > spread on-line racing community.. > I am sure this won't come to be, as any host that insists on only > allowing cable connections to his server, is not only clueless, but > also does not have the interests in promoting on-line play in mind at > all.. > There is nothing at all wrong with a dial-up connection for a client > Robert, as you well know. :) and a dial-up connection can be equally > as good, or even better than a cable connection from a client's > viewpoint, when it is set up up right.. > Maybe we should also ban anyone that doesn't have a 3 car garage and a > 6 figure bank account as well..!!! > Sort of reminds me of the hosts who insist on setting latency > restrictions in GPL to less than 550ms as well, etc.. (see clueless) > <G> > Cheers, > Ron > > Sorry if I'm stupid, but why restrict them to cable users? A regular > > telephone modem may not have the capability of hosting 30 cars in a > race > > but you can join without causing troubles to others ? Right ? > > Robert > > > This is a good idea. > > > -Larry > > > > Are there any N3 leagues being setup ? If so are any being > > restricted to > > > > Cable racers? > > > > -- > > > > Dave Long > > > > Memphis TN > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Ron, I do have a dial up connection with Concentric (as well as my newly aquiered cable connection), and I did not say that there was anything wrong with them. But, I AM a SERIOUS gamer when it comes to Racing and I want my online experience to be the absolute best it can be. I am tierd of people taking me out because of warps or BLAMMING warp for wrecking the field. I'm sure there will be MANY leagues availible for Dial up racers, and I will be part of them as well. I simply asked if there would be a league for Cable racers to get the BEST posible racing expierence availible. I have raced with a field of cable racers and the racing was SOLID as a ROCK. Cable connections are the future of our sport, Like it or Not !!! (P.S.) I don't have a garage (only a carport) or a 6 figure bank account (I think there is about $800 in it) so please don't get so damn sarcastic and start calling people "clueless", they may be offended _ Dave Long Memphis TN

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> I couldn't agree more Robert... > This is just another way to further segregate the allready thinly > spread on-line racing community.. > I am sure this won't come to be, as any host that insists on only > allowing cable connections to his server, is not only clueless, but > also does not have the interests in promoting on-line play in mind at > all.. > There is nothing at all wrong with a dial-up connection for a client > Robert, as you well know. :) and a dial-up connection can be equally > as good, or even better than a cable connection from a client's > viewpoint, when it is set up up right.. > Maybe we should also ban anyone that doesn't have a 3 car garage and a > 6 figure bank account as well..!!! > Sort of reminds me of the hosts who insist on setting latency > restrictions in GPL to less than 550ms as well, etc.. (see clueless) > <G> > Cheers, > Ron > > Sorry if I'm stupid, but why restrict them to cable users? A regular > > telephone modem may not have the capability of hosting 30 cars in a > race > > but you can join without causing troubles to others ? Right ? > > Robert > > > This is a good idea. > > > -Larry > > > > Are there any N3 leagues being setup ? If so are any being > > restricted to > > > > Cable racers? > > > > -- > > > > Dave Long > > > > Memphis TN > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Dave, Please don't be mislead by promisses made by cable providers. They can't deliver the goods yet, at least from my experiences. I have a cable connection, and so does ric Cot who manages a huge GPL site and online racing leagues, and we both can attest that we are having major disconnection problems when we host. At the beginning of my signing up with Videotron, an internet cable provider here in the province of Qubec, all was great as I was able to host and get 15/20 clients with maybe 1 or 2 disconnections. But now, for some reason, I can hardly keep 2 or 3 clients. And the excuse my provider uses, is that they don't ALLOW and SUPPORT customers using their computers as servers. ric Cot, who lives 10 minutes away from me, gets booted out of my races and I get booted out of his. About a mounth ago, I hosted a league practice race ( Founders Cup ) and as I was sitting in the garage watching in horror clients from Canada, upper NY State, California, etc, get booted out left and right, only two out of 12 remained, and one of them was Ron Ayton who lives in Australia, by far my farthest client at that time. Cable connection for me is very fast but unstable. I am looking for alternatives as I do not get the support and service I need from my provider. Robert =:-D > Ron, > I do have a dial up connection with Concentric (as well as my newly aquiered > cable connection), and I did not say that there was anything wrong with > them. But, I AM a SERIOUS gamer when it comes to Racing and I want my online > experience to be the absolute best it can be. I am tierd of people taking me > out because of warps or BLAMMING warp for wrecking the field. I'm sure there > will be MANY leagues availible for Dial up racers, and I will be part of > them as well. I simply asked if there would be a league for Cable racers to > get the BEST posible racing expierence availible. I have raced with a field > of cable racers and the racing was SOLID as a ROCK. > Cable connections are the future of our sport, Like it or Not !!! > (P.S.) I don't have a garage (only a carport) or a 6 figure bank account (I > think there is about $800 in it) so please don't get so damn sarcastic and

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> start calling people "clueless", they may be offended > _ > Dave Long > Memphis TN > > I couldn't agree more Robert... > > This is just another way to further segregate the allready thinly > > spread on-line racing community.. > > I am sure this won't come to be, as any host that insists on only > > allowing cable connections to his server, is not only clueless, but > > also does not have the interests in promoting on-line play in mind

at > > all.. > > There is nothing at all wrong with a dial-up connection for a client > > Robert, as you well know. :) and a dial-up connection can be equally > > as good, or even better than a cable connection from a client's > > viewpoint, when it is set up up right.. > > Maybe we should also ban anyone that doesn't have a 3 car garage and a > > 6 figure bank account as well..!!! > > Sort of reminds me of the hosts who insist on setting latency > > restrictions in GPL to less than 550ms as well, etc.. (see clueless) > > <G> > > Cheers, > > Ron regular > > > telephone modem may not have the capability of hosting 30 cars in a

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> > race > > > but you can join without causing troubles to others ? Right ? > > > Robert > > > > This is a good idea. > > > > -Larry > > > > > Are there any N3 leagues being setup ? If so are any being > > > restricted to > > > > > Cable racers? > > > > > -- > > > > > Dave Long > > > > > Memphis TN > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I am a clueless host who sets latency restrictions on my GPL races. I further my idiocy by setting them to less than 300ms. I have great races, very few cars winking in and out. There's something about all this latency talk I'd really like to know. I've read several posts indicating that you can have perfectly decent races with latencies of 550ms, or even greater, and that drivers with these latencies have no effect whatsoever on the quality of the race for other drivers. I'm completely confused on this issue. All my on-line experience, and not just with GPL, has been contrary to this. It's always been the person with the high ping who's winking in and out. So, does it come down to purely ping, or is it the quality of the connection, in terms of consistency, that's the issue? I could see if a person had a rock-steady latency of 550ms and never wavered, it would not be a problem. But that seldom seems to be the case in my experience. The ping will be all over the map, anywhere from under 100ms to over 1000ms. Is that where the problems start? Any enlightenment on this topic would be greatly appreciated. As for cable only leagues, I remember when you could race N2 on Hawaii if you had a decent modem and could afford the bucks for the call. I didn't and couldn't, but I didn't bemoan the ones who could. That's life. I don't have a garage. And I'm not really clueless. Zog

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> I couldn't agree more Robert... > This is just another way to further segregate the allready thinly > spread on-line racing community.. > I am sure this won't come to be, as any host that insists on only > allowing cable connections to his server, is not only clueless, but > also does not have the interests in promoting on-line play in mind at > all.. > There is nothing at all wrong with a dial-up connection for a client > Robert, as you well know. :) and a dial-up connection can be equally > as good, or even better than a cable connection from a client's > viewpoint, when it is set up up right.. > Maybe we should also ban anyone that doesn't have a 3 car garage and a > 6 figure bank account as well..!!! > Sort of reminds me of the hosts who insist on setting latency > restrictions in GPL to less than 550ms as well, etc.. (see clueless) > <G> > Cheers, > Ron > > Sorry if I'm stupid, but why restrict them to cable users? A regular > > telephone modem may not have the capability of hosting 30 cars in a > race > > but you can join without causing troubles to others ? Right ? > > Robert > > > This is a good idea. > > > -Larry > > > > Are there any N3 leagues being setup ? If so are any being > > restricted to > > > > Cable racers? > > > > -- > > > > Dave Long > > > > Memphis TN > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Hi Doug, In GPL, clients with a latency figure of up to 550 ms, can be as steady as a rock, providing they have a good quality connection to the host. Obviously the lower the better, but to set your allowable ping at 300 or less, is really overdoing it a tad, in GPL on-line... :) I have raced on-line ever since the day GPL was first released and i normally race GPL through USA based hosts, where my ping times are usually in the range from 420 to 550 or so, with occasional pings in the 600 range, depending on net conditions etc.. ( i live in Austraia) Myself and a few others have done extensive testing in regards to how latency and quality effect on-line play in GPL. I run in a USA based league, so i had to get my act together in regards to connection issues, based on latency and quality issues... In GPL F1, providing the client has a good and error free as possible connection and has taken steps to tune his/her DUN and modem for on-line play, then perfect. warp free racing can be had with pings of up to 550 ms.. (Papy has done a really great job with GPL on-line) In F2, it is possible to get away with pings up to 600, and in F3, believe it or not, warp free races are possible up to a latency of 700 ms, providing steps have been taken, like i explained above.. Warping and poor on-line play are the result and mixture of poor quality, lost packets, bad routers, poor latency, bad ISPs etc. etc. It is better to have a medium latency figure with a good quality rating than a low latency figure with a poor quality rating.. Finally i apologise to you and anyone else who may have figured that they belong in the clueless catagory, through having latency capping set too low in GPL on their hosts, but setting the latency capping below 550, is not going to cure poor on-line play. "Clueless", may have been a bit harsh, but at least it got some response from a couple of concerned hosts. :) If just a few hosts look at this post and try changing their latency capping to a sensible level, then we as a sim racing community, are in front.. Education regarding connection issues is needed more than latency capping.. Latency capping doesn't cure the problems, it hides them... Cheers, Ron

Hi Dave, Firstly i did not say YOU was clueless, i said that any host that only allows cable connections to join a on-line race on his host, is clueless.. Do you only allow cable clients to join your races?? If your answer is, "yes" then you are clueless.. !!! If not, then this post was not aimed at you, was it. ? Personally, i don't care whether you are offended or not, as you have taken the wrong attitude with a general posting that i made in regards to hosts who will only be allowing cable users to join their races.. If you fit into that catagory, then my post is aimed at you after all, if however, you do allow dial-up connections to join your races, then this post was not aimed at you... In regards to wanting your on-line racing to be the best possible, i am sure we all want that, but restricting clients to cable only, will not make it better, only more selective of who can join or not.!! There is nothing wrong at all with a good dial-up connection.. Lighten up and have a nice day. ..:) Cheers, Ron > Ron, > I do have a dial up connection with Concentric (as well as my newly aquiered > cable connection), and I did not say that there was anything wrong with > them. But, I AM a SERIOUS gamer when it comes to Racing and I want my online > experience to be the absolute best it can be. I am tierd of people taking me > out because of warps or BLAMMING warp for wrecking the field. I'm sure there > will be MANY leagues availible for Dial up racers, and I will be part of > them as well. I simply asked if there would be a league for Cable racers to > get the BEST posible racing expierence availible. I have raced with a field > of cable racers and the racing was SOLID as a ROCK. > Cable connections are the future of our sport, Like it or Not !!! > (P.S.) I don't have a garage (only a carport) or a 6 figure bank account (I > think there is about $800 in it) so please don't get so damn sarcastic and

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> start calling people "clueless", they may be offended > _ > Dave Long > Memphis TN

I'm in pretty much "rural" tennessee. I do have ISDN but the chance of xDSL or Cable modems in my area happening are slim for the next year or so... ISDN usually has pretty good latency for racing online. What's the latency of cable modems?

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>Ron, >I do have a dial up connection with Concentric (as well as my newly aquiered >cable connection), and I did not say that there was anything wrong with >them. But, I AM a SERIOUS gamer when it comes to Racing and I want my online >experience to be the absolute best it can be. I am tierd of people taking me >out because of warps or BLAMMING warp for wrecking the field. I'm sure there >will be MANY leagues availible for Dial up racers, and I will be part of >them as well. I simply asked if there would be a league for Cable racers to >get the BEST posible racing expierence availible. I have raced with a field >of cable racers and the racing was SOLID as a ROCK. >Cable connections are the future of our sport, Like it or Not !!! >(P.S.) I don't have a garage (only a carport) or a 6 figure bank account (I >think there is about $800 in it) so please don't get so damn sarcastic and >start calling people "clueless", they may be offended >_ >Dave Long >Memphis TN >> I couldn't agree more Robert... >> This is just another way to further segregate the allready thinly >> spread on-line racing community.. >> I am sure this won't come to be, as any host that insists on only >> allowing cable connections to his server, is not only clueless, but >> also does not have the interests in promoting on-line play in mind at >> all.. >> There is nothing at all wrong with a dial-up connection for a client >> Robert, as you well know. :) and a dial-up connection can be equally >> as good, or even better than a cable connection from a client's >> viewpoint, when it is set up up right.. >> Maybe we should also ban anyone that doesn't have a 3 car garage and a >> 6 figure bank account as well..!!! >> Sort of reminds me of the hosts who insist on setting latency >> restrictions in GPL to less than 550ms as well, etc.. (see clueless) >> <G> >> Cheers, >> Ron >> > Sorry if I'm stupid, but why restrict them to cable users? A regular >> > telephone modem may not have the capability of hosting 30 cars in a >> race >> > but you can join without causing troubles to others ? Right ? >> > Robert >> > > This is a good idea. >> > > -Larry >> > > > Are there any N3 leagues being setup ? If so are any being >> > restricted to >> > > > Cable racers? >> > > > -- >> > > > Dave Long >> > > > Memphis TN >> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >> > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

I usually do not get involved in these argue-complain type posts but Ron where did you get your info below?? I have both a good 56kb dial-up modem with a good ISP & I also have a top cable modem provider. There is no comparison! 56kb {basically} is a mis-named. Please check upload-download connections.. It will not reach 56kb.. Now a cable can transfer as little as 125kb/sec up 250kb/sec down Or as mine 256kb/sec up and 526kb/sec down, maxed! It seems your comments "a dial-up connection can be equally as good, or even better than a cable connection from a client's view point, when it is set up up right.." Is not correct!! All constructive comments welcome.. All flames send to Billy C. Cheers Thom_j. > >> There is nothing at all wrong with a dial-up connection for a client > >> Robert, as you well know. :) and a dial-up connection can be equally > >> as good, or even better than a cable connection from a client's > >> viewpoint, when it is set up up right.. > >> Maybe we should also ban anyone that doesn't have a 3 car garage and a

Oops I believe I mis-addressed my re: I think it should have been Dave not *Ron*.. Sorry!! Too many threads within one re: ;O) Cheers Thom_j. I usually do not get involved in these argue-complain type posts but *Ron* where did you get your info below? I have both a good 56k dial-up modem with a good ISP & I also have a top cable modem provider. There is no comparison!

A cable connection is not the issue. you could have the fastest connection in the world but it don't mean a damned thing if there is a bad hub 15 hops down the line. Mark > Ron, > I do have a dial up connection with Concentric (as well as my newly aquiered > cable connection), and I did not say that there was anything wrong with > them. But, I AM a SERIOUS gamer when it comes to Racing and I want my online > experience to be the absolute best it can be. I am tierd of people taking me > out because of warps or BLAMMING warp for wrecking the field. I'm sure there > will be MANY leagues availible for Dial up racers, and I will be part of > them as well. I simply asked if there would be a league for Cable racers to > get the BEST posible racing expierence availible. I have raced with a field > of cable racers and the racing was SOLID as a ROCK. > Cable connections are the future of our sport, Like it or Not !!! > (P.S.) I don't have a garage (only a carport) or a 6 figure bank account (I

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> think there is about $800 in it) so please don't get so damn sarcastic and > start calling people "clueless", they may be offended > _ > Dave Long > Memphis TN > > I couldn't agree more Robert... > > This is just another way to further segregate the allready thinly > > spread on-line racing community.. > > I am sure this won't come to be, as any host that insists on only > > allowing cable connections to his server, is not only clueless, but > > also does not have the interests in promoting on-line play in mind at > > all.. > > There is nothing at all wrong with a dial-up connection for a client > > Robert, as you well know. :) and a dial-up connection can be equally > > as good, or even better than a cable connection from a client's > > viewpoint, when it is set up up right.. > > Maybe we should also ban anyone that doesn't have a 3 car garage and a > > 6 figure bank account as well..!!! > > Sort of reminds me of the hosts who insist on setting latency > > restrictions in GPL to less than 550ms as well, etc.. (see clueless) > > <G> > > Cheers, > > Ron > > > Sorry if I'm stupid, but why restrict them to cable users? A regular > > > telephone modem may not have the capability of hosting 30 cars in a > > race > > > but you can join without causing troubles to others ? Right ? > > > Robert > > > > This is a good idea. > > > > -Larry > > > > > Are there any N3 leagues being setup ? If so are any being > > > restricted to > > > > > Cable racers? > > > > > -- > > > > > Dave Long > > > > > Memphis TN > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

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> I usually do not get involved in these argue-complain type posts but > Ron where did you get your info below?? I have both a good 56kb > dial-up modem with a good ISP & I also have a top cable modem > provider. There is no comparison! > 56kb {basically} is a mis-named. Please check upload-download > connections.. It will not reach 56kb.. Now a cable can transfer as > little as 125kb/sec up 250kb/sec down Or as mine 256kb/sec up > and 526kb/sec down, maxed! > It seems your comments "a dial-up connection can be equally as > good, or even better than a cable connection from a client's view > point, when it is set up up right.." Is not correct!! > All constructive comments welcome.. All flames send to Billy C. > Cheers Thom_j.

Several Cable users from my area, (Upstate NY), have been on my (cable) host and every time they are on they have rock solid connections. Probably because since we are all using the same ISP it's like a LAN race. Those that connect with dial up modems are a hit and miss situation. When GPL 1.1 and GSB 2 came out we were able to dictate who was allowed to connect to us by a restricting latency. Ron and I did a test.. he connected to my host with a relatively high ping. I followed him around the track and watched for any anomalies. There were none that I could see. Since his computer and connection and my computer and connection are set up for racing online, Ping values have little to no effect as to how solid the cars are. It's those that have not set their computers and connections up for online racing where all the problems come from. As far as comparing KB sizes, it's true that Cable users will have better latencies in general then dial up users. however, that is only true for those that have good dial up ISP's and good cable ISP's. Then add in the routing and then the differences are hit and miss for both parties... dial up and cable. Apparently, all the hops from here in NY to there in Australia are great. If the routing should change to include one bad hop then that's where the trouble starts. You can have 10 gig/second upload and download, but if there's one bad hop. you might just as well be using a 300 baud modem. So, as far as a cable user league, I do like the concept!! I'll join that league ASAP!! but only if that league was used by cable users using the same cable ISP here in Rochester/Syracuse. -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

Hi George, I usually have a .05 to .10 latency when connecting to another cable modem no matter where in the world they are. That's what I get between my two PC's with a serial cable connection. > online. What's the latency of cable modems? -- Rich Koehler rgkoehler(at)lucent(dot)com killerk(at)home(dot)com

Yes, I think we should string up them dial-up users from the nearest tree. Oh you dial-up users, I'll make you pay, if its the last thing I do. BWUH HA HA HA HA Ha HA (add in thunder for back ground music)

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> Frankly, because we want to :) > -Larry > > Sorry if I'm stupid, but why restrict them to cable users? A regular > > telephone modem may not have the capability of hosting 30 cars in a race > > but you can join without causing troubles to others ? Right ? > > Robert > > > This is a good idea. > > > -Larry > > > > Are there any N3 leagues being setup ? If so are any being > > restricted to > > > > Cable racers? > > > > -- > > > > Dave Long > > > > Memphis TN > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Thom this actually a 100% correct statement. You could have the fastest internet connection in the world but if your provider and or cable modem cannot produce CONSISTENT latency then it is going to be very warpy. On the other hand a slow analog modem that delivers consistent latency could in fact be better. It is just too hard to make blanket statements. Neither is better nor worse than the other as a client. Bill / Amish on Team Brickyard

Isn't one of the tricks of getting a good solid connect on a 56k modem to actually force your connection to a 28.8? I know on TEN, some of the guys suggested connecting at 19.2. That tells me that the quality / stability of the connection is far more important then the latency. Granted the latency may tell of a poor / unstable connection, but it is not always the case. I agree that capping only hides the real killer. Personally, I have yet to do any tweaking at all on my Dial-up connection (Dunn settings and such). The max I have ever seen, with my 56k, is a 28.8 connection in the Dial-up status window. I have yet to see major problems with my online racing. I should also say, that no one has ever complained about me warping. I can also say, that when my ISP (Micron) has a bad day, I do too. Oh, just to clarify, if it makes a difference or not, Micron just went national (US). Before that it was just another local ISP for me. Thad

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> Hi Doug, > In GPL, clients with a latency figure of up to 550 ms, can be as steady > as a rock, providing they have a good quality connection to the host. > Obviously the lower the better, but to set your allowable ping at 300 > or less, is really overdoing it a tad, in GPL on-line... :) > I have raced on-line ever since the day GPL was first released and i > normally race GPL through USA based hosts, where my ping times are > usually in the range from 420 to 550 or so, with occasional pings in > the 600 range, depending on net conditions etc.. ( i live in > Austraia) > Myself and a few others have done extensive testing in regards to how > latency and quality effect on-line play in GPL. > I run in a USA based league, so i had to get my act together in regards > to connection issues, based on latency and quality issues... > In GPL F1, providing the client has a good and error free as possible > connection and has taken steps to tune his/her DUN and modem for > on-line play, then perfect. warp free racing can be had with pings of > up to 550 ms.. (Papy has done a really great job with GPL on-line) > In F2, it is possible to get away with pings up to 600, and in F3, > believe it or not, warp free races are possible up to a latency of 700 > ms, providing steps have been taken, like i explained above.. > Warping and poor on-line play are the result and mixture of poor > quality, lost packets, bad routers, poor latency, bad ISPs etc. etc. > It is better to have a medium latency figure with a good quality rating > than a low latency figure with a poor quality rating.. > Finally i apologise to you and anyone else who may have figured that > they belong in the clueless catagory, through having latency capping > set too low in GPL on their hosts, but setting the latency capping > below 550, is not going to cure poor on-line play. > "Clueless", may have been a bit harsh, but at least it got some > response from a couple of concerned hosts. :) > If just a few hosts look at this post and try changing their latency > capping to a sensible level, then we as a sim racing community, are in > front.. > Education regarding connection issues is needed more than latency > capping.. > Latency capping doesn't cure the problems, it hides them... > Cheers, > Ron > > I am a clueless host who sets latency restrictions on my GPL races. > I > > further my idiocy by setting them to less than 300ms. I have great > races, > > very few cars winking in and out. > > There's something about all this latency talk I'd really like to > know. > > I've read several posts indicating that you can have perfectly decent > races > > with latencies of 550ms, or even greater, and that drivers with these > > latencies have no effect whatsoever on the quality of the race for > other > > drivers. I'm completely confused on this issue. All my on-line > > experience, and not just with GPL, has been contrary to this. It's > always > > been the person with the high ping who's winking in and out. So, > does it > > come down to purely ping, or is it the quality of the connection, in > terms > > of consistency, that's the issue? I could see if a person had a > > rock-steady latency of 550ms and never wavered, it would not be a > problem. > > But that seldom seems to be the case in my experience. The ping will > be > > all over the map, anywhere from under 100ms to over 1000ms. Is that > where > > the problems start? Any enlightenment on this topic would be greatly > > appreciated. > > As for cable only leagues, I remember when you could race N2 on > Hawaii if > > you had a decent modem and could afford the bucks for the call. I > didn't > > and couldn't, but I didn't bemoan the ones who could. That's life. > > I don't have a garage. And I'm not really clueless. > > Zog

That's pretty good... with my ISDN I'm seeing .08 to .19, sometimes lower (mainly remembering from TEN, having only jumped into N3's online racing a few times to see how it was).

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>Hi George, >I usually have a .05 to .10 latency when connecting to another cable modem >no matter where in the world they are. That's what I get between my two >PC's with a serial cable connection. >> online. What's the latency of cable modems? >-- >Rich Koehler >rgkoehler(at)lucent(dot)com >killerk(at)home(dot)com

You got it =:-D ...now if I could find that darn %$/& bad hub ! Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Hi Dave, I don't know how much GPL online racing you've done, nor do I own N3 yet so I'm not sure how good it's online racing performance is compared to GPL.. But just this weekend I hosted a GPL online league race with 11 drivers on my ADSL connection in Seattle, which Ron took part in, connected all the way from Australia with a ping around 600ms if I remember correctly. Ron spent the better part of the 27 lap Pro race glued to my rear-end racing wheel to wheel with me around Mosport with no evident warping or other lag induced problems. My own opinion of GPL online racing, and my hosting and racing experience with it, lead me to believe that "Latency" (how many ms of lag there is) is not the main problem in online GPL racing warp, but more importantly the quality of the connection to the host (i.e. how much packetloss). I've raced many times on VROC with racers from Australia and Europe who were able to maintain warpless connections to my GPL server, while at the same time other racers closer to me in places like California were warping all over the place from packetloss due to poor ISP's that have bad connections to the Internet backbone resulting in lots of packetloss on their connections. If this online performance is similar with N3, then perhaps limiting your league to only cable users might not result in the outcome you hope for, since there are cable ISP's that suffer from packetloss despite a very low ping, at the same time you might be keeping out many good dialup racers or racers in other continents who have very solid connections and who may be very talented and would make a good addition to your League. You say: "Cable connections are the future of our sport, Like it or Not !!!" While we in North America are lucky and see Cable and DSL connections become more and more common everyday, the rest of the world is still for the most part, a dialup and ISDN world and will remain so for the next few years, leagues which limit themselves to racers only with fast connections may be limiting the talent of the racers you race against, to only local racers and those lucky enough to have cable modem connections available. I for one am glad that Ron was able to give me a damn good race around Mosport this weekend. High Latency or not I've really come to respect good racers from Australia (there are a few of them), and I sure am glad for the opportunity to race against them which is very possible to do without warp as long as there is no packetloss high latency or not. Seeyas on the track. --John (Joao) Silva

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>Ron, >I do have a dial up connection with Concentric (as well as my newly aquiered >cable connection), and I did not say that there was anything wrong with >them. But, I AM a SERIOUS gamer when it comes to Racing and I want my online >experience to be the absolute best it can be. I am tierd of people taking me >out because of warps or BLAMMING warp for wrecking the field. I'm sure there >will be MANY leagues availible for Dial up racers, and I will be part of >them as well. I simply asked if there would be a league for Cable racers to >get the BEST posible racing expierence availible. I have raced with a field >of cable racers and the racing was SOLID as a ROCK. >Cable connections are the future of our sport, Like it or Not !!! >(P.S.) I don't have a garage (only a carport) or a 6 figure bank account (I >think there is about $800 in it) so please don't get so damn sarcastic and >start calling people "clueless", they may be offended >_ >Dave Long >Memphis TN