NASCAR3 Want list --add yours--

Everone please reply to this msg... Some of my top requests... -running over debris..flat tire -realistic somke (ie.NFS2) -roof flaps -flips -oil from crash on window -Animated pit crew (maybe to hard in frame rate) -brakes fading -Maybe hear the crowd when theres a crash or a pass 4 the lead -dents in the side of the car, or just dents... -More detailed CAR SETUP ie. Track bar, ***s, Tape on grill... Unrealistic thing.... -a Built in Engine Program (make you own motor...maybe a edge for human racing on TEN) -chassie? Anything else that anyone can think of is welcome... If this list gets big enough we should send er over to Sierra...

Add to the below: Debris to run over. Ability to custom paint all parts of car, inside and out. including the spoiler where it gets taped at the split that is in it for the official shape template. Random pit stalls based on qualifying position. A victory lane to drive to if win the race (along with the trophy girl) <G>. Got milk? <G>. Ability to look right and left. And most important for those of us who have to setup our systems a certain way: Bring back the choice of lpt1 or 2 for printing setup sheets!! Ron

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>Everone please reply to this msg... >Some of my top requests... >-running over debris..flat tire >-realistic somke (ie.NFS2) >-roof flaps >-flips >-oil from crash on window >-Animated pit crew (maybe to hard in frame rate) >-brakes fading >-Maybe hear the crowd when theres a crash or a pass 4 the lead >-dents in the side of the car, or just dents... >-More detailed CAR SETUP ie. Track bar, ***s, Tape on grill... >Unrealistic thing.... >-a Built in Engine Program (make you own motor...maybe a edge for human >racing on TEN) >-chassie? >Anything else that anyone can think of is welcome... >If this list gets big enough we should send er over to Sierra...

-- ******************************************************** * Keep the shiny side up & the hammer down. * ** Ron Riekens II ** *** Co-Owner/Driver *** **** Maui Sunshine Raceing/*** Photography **** **** NASS BGN-B Series #97 Pontiac **** ** http://www.kutztown.edu/~cunger ** * ICQ# 1780898 * ********************************************************

Debris sounds ok, when they get the resolution a little better and you can *see* the debris... there's nothing like just trying to avoid the cars and no junk on the track to "run over". I might regret that later :) Do the tires really "flat spot" after a spin in Nascar2? Double File Restarts please!!!! Stuff on the windshield - glare, oil, bugs, dirt, whatever, just something to fog the vision till the pit stop when it gets cleaned off! Brake Fade - I agree, especially after all the talk about Martinsville's brakes. AI - what can I say? they push up out of the groove, making passing extremely easy at many tracks, such as Bristol, Martinsville, etc. Do they take revenge? will they ram you in the rear if you make them mad? etc. etc. etc.

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>Everone please reply to this msg... >Some of my top requests... >-running over debris..flat tire >-realistic somke (ie.NFS2) >-roof flaps >-flips >-oil from crash on window >-Animated pit crew (maybe to hard in frame rate) >-brakes fading >-Maybe hear the crowd when theres a crash or a pass 4 the lead >-dents in the side of the car, or just dents... >-More detailed CAR SETUP ie. Track bar, ***s, Tape on grill... >Unrealistic thing.... >-a Built in Engine Program (make you own motor...maybe a edge for human >racing on TEN) >-chassie? >Anything else that anyone can think of is welcome... >If this list gets big enough we should send er over to Sierra...

Don't think so

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>Double File Restarts please!!!! >Stuff on the windshield - glare, oil, bugs, dirt, whatever, just >something to fog the vision till the pit stop when it gets cleaned >off! >Brake Fade - I agree, especially after all the talk about >Martinsville's brakes. >AI - what can I say? they push up out of the groove, making passing >extremely easy at many tracks, such as Bristol, Martinsville, etc. Do >they take revenge? will they ram you in the rear if you make them >mad? etc. etc. etc. >>Everone please reply to this msg... >>Some of my top requests... >>-running over debris..flat tire >>-realistic somke (ie.NFS2) >>-roof flaps >>-flips >>-oil from crash on window >>-Animated pit crew (maybe to hard in frame rate) >>-brakes fading >>-Maybe hear the crowd when theres a crash or a pass 4 the lead

don't think so how about losing a cylinder and make our grip level more realistic

- DAYTONA......... - Maximum practice time (as GP2) - In practice, when quitting and coming back the session is still continued. Even better... when you drive into the pits in practice the engine is shut off and you get the setup screen, so you don't have to abbort the session. - Better engine sounds - Ability to setup shocks and springs seperate - A decent "end of the race" animation...either winning or losing - Neutral gear - A starting sound - Some kind of animated pit crew

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>> Everone please reply to this msg... >- DAYTONA......... >- Maximum practice time (as GP2) >- In practice, when quitting and coming back the session is still >continued. Even better... when you drive into the pits in practice the >engine is shut off and you get > the setup screen, so you don't have to abbort the session. >- Better engine sounds >- Ability to setup shocks and springs seperate >- A decent "end of the race" animation...either winning or losing >- Neutral gear >- A starting sound >- Some kind of animated pit crew

how about having an engine that will actually stall after a crash or how about losing gears like RAC

Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators Date: Tue, 30 Sep 97 09:11:31 Subject: Re: NASCAR3 Want list --add yours-- X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII For quicker multiplayer play... Not 100% sim, but funner... Usually up to 8 humans and another 20 or so AI drivers... Yellows: Once everybody is in their correct slot have a keypress to tell the computer that you are loacked and ready to go. When all networked players do this then the game is fast forwarded to 1/3 lap before restart. This would save a lot of deadtime that occours in multiplayer games with yellows on. Make it an option... Bad Wreck: During these scenarios the AI gets all bunched up and dies there for several laps. Basically it ruins that race. Have it so you can pres a key and the wreck is magically cleared up with AI opponents that were gonna go to the pits automatically appear there and the rest of us can get on with the race. Watching the race during the race: The host computer has the ability to watch a multiplayer network race as it happens. The host computer can also go back for replays and then return to realtime. This is IMO an awesome feature. It would be nice to expand this and have it more automatic, where it automatically replays a wreck in a couple of angles, then returning to the race, as the race happens it switches views automatically, showing leaders, packs, blimp views,***pit view ect. You can do all this now but it's manual. An automatic situation would be jaw dropping. In a perfect world I would like a commercial setup where 7 players are racing for real and have the host on a large monitor so spectators can watch the race the seven others are participating in. Again it could be done now but you would have to do this manually. This is a feature many people aren't aware of. And of course the latest in 3d effects. Fogging, AA ect... I understand what I offer aren't sim situations but really really clear up some sore spots that happen when you get some racers together and want to run a bunch of 60 lap races with a bunch of different skill level players. Meaning there really is a spot for the stuff I mention. Q.B.M.

% Some of my top requests... % -running over debris..flat tire Add oil when a another car loses and engine % -realistic somke (ie.NFS2) "gloss" % -roof flaps "gloss" % -flips "gloss" % -oil from crash on window Changing sunglare during the race. This was modeled well quite some time ago in Falcon 3.0. This should be even more spectacular now with the new 3d cards. % -Animated pit crew (maybe to hard in frame rate) "gloss" % -brakes fading Yes please. % -Maybe hear the crowd when theres a crash or a pass 4 the lead Can the driver actually hear the crowd during race conditions? % -dents in the side of the car, or just dents... "gloss" % -More detailed CAR SETUP ie. Track bar, ***s, Tape on grill... A Must! Note about gloss: These can all be added only after the parts that make the sim more "realistic" in "game play". While the "glossy" items contribute to the suspension of disbelief, I am looking for hard-core additions to the sim that will make it long lasting. The glitz is good for dessert, but I want my meat and potatoes first! Just living off of sweets (eye-candy) soon wears thin. Give me some nutrition and I'll "eat it up". Changing track conditions. As it is now, the only reason one would have the crew change tire pressure or wedge during the race is that one didn't have the car setup properly for the race. An AI that learns from the human driver. More variable grooves for the AI to run in different situations. AI that will not get stuck behind slower cars because they don't seem to realize that they are faster than a crippled car. AI that will run "closer". Currently Papy AI tend to "let up" when ever cars are getting close to them (both human and other AI). AI that doesn't give up the spirit once the human driver passes them. % Unrealistic thing.... % -a Built in Engine Program (make you own motor...maybe a edge for human % racing on TEN) % -chassie? Maybe this could be done as an addon package. I have enough trouble finding the time to setup my car and practice let alone race full length races. One more unrealistic thing -- FEWER (much fewer) BUGS in the first release of the program. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

% AI - what can I say? they push up out of the groove, making passing % extremely easy at many tracks, such as Bristol, Martinsville, etc. Do % they take revenge? will they ram you in the rear if you make them % mad? etc. etc. etc. Agreed, they REALLY need to concentrate more on the AI. It can be done. I personally feel that much more can be done with the current AI rules that exist, than was done by the Papy folks. Even more can be done if they create some new rules. However, in the meantime, if you are looking for a good competitive AI for Martinsville head to http://www.teleport.com/~mcarver/utilitie.htm and download our enhanced AI. While they might not run as "close" side-by-side as they real boys at Martinsville, they run pretty hard and the competition they give the human is more realistic. It seems that the closer the AI run side-by-side the less they run hard. They seem to be afraid to mess up their clean paint and decals job. Stay tuned for more AI updates, Bristol and Darlington are on the drawing boards as we speak/write. -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

This would definately be a good idea to sent to Sierra/Papyrus - I agree wholeheatedly. Lets make sure they know what things are important to us in a sim. In addition to the points already raised - how about: - More realistic groove from both a graphical and gameplay point of view. The current skid marks look a bit dodgy, but make useful brake markers. Also the racing line to visibly look like more *** is being laid down as the race goes on which will also affects gameplay by giving more grip where the *** is laid. - Active weather conditions option. How many times do we hear about how clouds going over drops track temperature and affects handling during the race. Also shadows across the track as appropriate. - Does a Nascar really rev to 10,000 odd rpms before going bang? - Does the engine perform as well at the end of the race as at the beginning? The abuse/wear factor applies to tyres, why not engine and brakes too. (and anything else thats significant) - Some much more user friendly ways to get your own paint jobs in and out. Its a bit naive to think we are really using the built in paint shop. To include the car interior and layout too. Oh and can we paint ALL of the outside of the car. - What about some sort of modelling based on known (or educated guesswork) charcteristics of the car makes/models. Both mechanical (including engine power/torque curve differences) and aerodynamic. - a more reliable way of getting screenshots. - We should not be able to cut across the grass in sim mode to gain more time - this is a major issue at Watkins and Sears. - An in-game frames per second counter would go down well with most people I'll bet. - Better ability to see into the distance. 800x600 with 3dfx/PowerVR ought to be a possible option. It works in Int Rally Champ. Cheers Stu Lip Service Racing TPTCC

(snip great ideas) I would add here Changing track conditions that affect different setups differently. Multiple/ and or changing lines due to conditions... this coupled with variable weather during a race. (snip) The only other thing I could add is a feature to advance a yellow flag lap to the corner before the green is thrown. I can just about get forty winks puttering around Sear Point on a yellow! :) Amen to that!! Regards, Gavel

How about having the AI get black flags on occasion? Also it would be great if they gambled on fuel mileage and lost, thus requiring them to coast back to the pits. Bart

Victory Lane....... Ability to export replays as .avi files....... The ability to watch other sim races in real-time...... Over real video.......? Giving me the camera option all the while......... Maybe in Nascar 5? -/- BW

Unrealistic thing that happen, but should be changed... when you loose a front tire, should not be able to continue to run at excessive speed, but the car should be running on the disc brake, or something, or even have the tow truck, come to get you

>Unrealistic thing that happen, but should be changed... >when you loose a front tire, should not be able to continue to run at >excessive speed, but the car should be running on the disc brake, or >something, or even have the tow truck, come to get you And damage to the inside wheel well. How about "pulling behind the wall"?? Possibly accelerate the race until the work is complete (10-50 laps away or something) and come back out, for points...

Interesting metaphors, but "me too" <g> This has to be a "must have" for any future edition of the NASCAR Racing series (and just about any other sim for that matter). What really makes oval racing interesting for me is the strategy element. Sadly a lot of that is missing from the existing sims as it is too sterile an environment - the track exists and never changes once the green flag drops :( Preferably also rather fewer in the patched versions as well. About 50% of my N2 races are affected in one way or another by a bug :( One thing to add to the list - AI that are capable of stretching a pit window. I'm fed up of winning races by a lap because they refuse to pit a few laps early when a caution comes out just over the standard pit window length from the end of the race or dive into the pits for fresh *** with 5 to go.... Actually one thing more - stop the AI from changing line so ***ly when they are about to pit! Something that all the tops sims suffer quite badly from :(( Cheers, Richard

Open GL or Direct 3D support? What can I say, just got my RIVA 128 and it needs Nascar! Bill

I just want the user interface to be improved. The current one sucks bigtime. Have it where you can type the first letter of the selection you want. Put the menu choices in the SAME AREA of the screen and not all over the place. Have a common GUI interface for ease of use. Oh, and put in a paintshop that is worth a damn. robin

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>Some of my top requests... >-running over debris..flat tire >-realistic somke (ie.NFS2) >-roof flaps >-flips >-oil from crash on window >-Animated pit crew (maybe to hard in frame rate) >-brakes fading >-Maybe hear the crowd when theres a crash or a pass 4 the lead >-dents in the side of the car, or just dents... >-More detailed CAR SETUP ie. Track bar, ***s, Tape on grill...

1. Double file restarts - a must really 2. I agree we need a track bar to adjust, also tape on grill would be cool! All the teams do this to improve engine performance (i.e optimum engine temps) 3. Red flags! - this would be great because I was at the night race at Bristol and there was such a big pile up of cars into turn one that they had to red flag the race. This happens all the time in N2 instead of a yellow they should throw the RED. 4. The AI would be more realistic if they passed each other more, and if they could catch the leaders at the end of a long run. 5. I wish the AI would tap draft and bump more (more aggressive). 6. Oil on track by damaged cars then speedy dry trucks after the wreck! 7. More specific random breakdowns - ignition, alternator, battery, overheating, brakes fade then fail, tire blows then rips fender, car radio goes out or acts up.

These aren't used in real NASCAR so we don't need them in the sim.

Mike, Very good suggestions. How about weather reports during a race weekend so we can have a clue as to how to setup the car for the race? Sort of tough when using random conditions when you practice in 57 degree weather and on race day it's 70 degrees. I think improved AI is the major upgrade needed. (ex. Drastic slowdowns going into turn one at the start of the race. Cars slow dramatically if you cut them off...unintentionally of course<g>.) Also, maybe include some type of randomizer so the same cars don't start at the front and the back all the time. I've downloaded a randomizer and have tweaked it and now get more realistic races. Looking forward to the Track Pack, Roger Johnson

they do have 1 or 2 hour practice in NASCAR, they use neutral when they need to coast back. They have the anthem at the beginning too

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>>Some of my top requests... >>-running over debris..flat tire >>-realistic somke (ie.NFS2) >>-roof flaps >>-flips >>-oil from crash on window >>-Animated pit crew (maybe to hard in frame rate) >>-brakes fading >>-Maybe hear the crowd when theres a crash or a pass 4 the lead >>-dents in the side of the car, or just dents... >>-More detailed CAR SETUP ie. Track bar, ***s, Tape on grill... >1. Double file restarts - a must really >2. I agree we need a track bar to adjust, also tape on grill would be cool! >All the teams do this to improve engine performance (i.e optimum engine >temps) >3. Red flags! - this would be great because I was at the night race at >Bristol and there was such a big pile up of cars into turn one that they

had >to red flag the race. This happens all the time in N2 instead of a yellow >they should throw the RED. What's the point of that? Are you going to sit in front of the computer and wait half an hour for them to clean up

I've been told that NASCAR 3 will have a significant change in the way the AI are modeled. As of now the .lp files control what line they drive, the REL, BLAP, and opponent strengths control how fast they go, and the SPDWY line controls how far they can go before pitting. They do not follow real physics. This is why is is difficult to adjust their performance to be realistic. It shouldn't be difficult to make the AI run out of gas or wear their tires out, so we should see a huge improvement in that area with N3. My wishlist is quite flashy and I know some of these will never be implemented, but I'll keep hoping. 1) some way to indicate to the AI that you intend to pit. A button on the keyboard or on your wheel that prevents the AI from passing low as you approach the entrance to the pits. Once you pass the entrance, they can pass again. If you miss the pits you are allowed to signal 1 more time on the next lap. If you miss again, the AI will not honor the signal on the next try. This will keep people from abusing the signal. 2) Fix the way the AI enter the pits. Going to the outside wall and then down to the apron seems a bit excessive. When I try that, I crash everytime. :-) A hand wave would be stellar. This could also be used to indicate trouble ahead. 3) Allow us to drive (or be towed) to the garage for extensive repairs. Then drive our car out of the garage back to the track. On tracks like Pocono, there are gates you can be towed through to get to the garage quicker than having to go all the way to the pits. 4) Allow us to be able to do a 45 degree head turn. 5) Allow us to signal to the spotter that we need to know when we can cross traffic from the wall to the apron. After an accident you cannot see anything behind you, in particular you cannot see a large enough hole in traffic to get across the track. 6) Penalize any car that goes backwards on the track during qualifying. 7) Penalize any car that exceeds the pit road speed limit during qualifying. 8) Allow us to adjust the carbeurator, shocks AND springs. 9) Allow us to paint the inside of the car, particularly the dash so we can put our name and sponsor and maybe a 1-800 number for brain transplants. :-) 10) Allow command-line switches for going straight to a particular season in progress. 11) Either get rid of Shift-R restarts or allow us to control whether they are legal. 12) Prevent sling-shot starts by requiring that a car be going no faster than 5-mph faster than the car ahead of them unless they are more than a certain distance from the car ahead of them. No passing before the S/F line on the initial race start. 13) Black flag the AI every now and again. 14) Allow us to set the maximum engine power, total car weight, and wheel base of the cars so we can more realistically model different classes of stock cars. 15) Debris on the track would be nice. 16) Crashed AI cars should remain on the track for a little while. It would be nice to be able to see Gordon's car being towed. :-) 17) Overheating, brake problems, etc. Player breakdowns need to be more creative. 18) The standings files should reflect the reason why the human left the race, not just DNF. 19) A more extensive summary of the race, such as who led which laps. How far you were behind the leader as you crossed the S/F line on the last lap. (This would be good for offline directors) 20) I've never seen smoke in my rear-view mirror when I've blown my engine. This should happen. 21) Dynamic skidmarks on the track and on the walls. 22) Flatspotting 23) Donuts and dents 24) Tape on the grill 25) Pit stall assignments based on qualifying position. 26) More accurate pit road shapes. 27) Remove the walls that don't belong like at Talladega and Watkins Glen. 28) Prevent driving through the pits during qualifying. 29) Crowd roar would be awesome. 30) Give the flag man a real flag to wave. 31) Randomize the placement of people on the catwalks over Phoenix. 32) Change the track conditions over the course of a race. Make cloud cover cool the track temperature down or the sun coming out makes the track heat up. 33) At tracks where drafting is the name of the game, ie. Talladega, get the drafting physics right. 2 goes faster than 1, 3 faster than 2 and so on. They should constantly be bunching up for the first 2/3s of the race. Then a group of 10 or so should be able to break away. 34) At Talladega, the AI are very difficult to catch, but once you catch them they will not draft with you. This should be fixed. They should be just as quick behind you as ahead of you. 35) Give us a track editor. Then leave it up to RaceSet to enforce whether tracks are genuine or not. Online wishes Allow any number of drivers to qualify for a race, not just 32. Then pick the top 32. In practice mode, a FIFO queue can be implemented to control what 32 cars get to practice. When you leave the track, you go to the back of the line. Any who doesn't get to practice will try to get to the track sooner the next time. David Martin Producer of RaceSet

There are better things to work on rather than spending time figuring out how to get a PERFECT crash

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>It would be nice to get some air in major crashes, I would also like to see >some 3D support, especially 3dfx. >> > Everone please reply to this msg... >> - DAYTONA......... >> - Maximum practice time (as GP2) >> - In practice, when quitting and coming back the session is still >> continued. Even better... when you drive into the pits in practice

the >> engine is shut off and you get how about actually stalling after a spin or crash waste of hard drive space

My wishlist would have the following 1. A better frame rate,even with Rendition its not as fast as Indycar2 2.More realistic drafting, and racing at Tally 3.More adjustments- s***or stickers, tape on the front end ,springs and trac-bar ,engine adj( fuel , timing) spring ***s 4. why do we have a fuel gage?? they dont- lets have our crew chief tell us the fuel situation. 5.More realistic car physics 6.NROS support out of the box :)

they have fuel pressure gauge >5.More realistic car physics >6.NROS support out of the box :)

Either that, or finding some way to bundle voice-recognition software, like in N1 and ICR2 for Mac. Most if not all sound cards have a mic jack, so there's the input device, and I'd rather like to be able to order my adjustments without having to take my hand off the wheel... RM

(Lots of good suggestions snipped.) There isn't a pit road speed limit in RL qualifying... The speed limit is a safety issue to prevent/reduce human injury to pit crews in pit lane. Thus, it's not needed, nor enforced, during qualifying. ---Jim

How about make the AI to go around crashes instead of stopping in front of it with those SUPER BRAKE PADS (150-0 in 25 ft) they have

now how would you do that.

Same old from me .... 1. Realistic AI car pit strategy. Leaders pit together, cars don't pit for tires with very few laps left unless the fuel is exhausted. I have submitted code fragment and simulation program with algorythms detailing the model I suggest. So, I am serious about this one as a must fix. I am surprised others don't list this - hasn't everyone seen a leader pit with 2 laps to go at Dover (or other track)? Some randomization is a good thing, but N2 does nothing to consider track position etc. in the random pit algorythm. 2. No black flag for speeding in the pits when you DON'T stop. This will not penalize a driver for spinning into the pits when he/she gets hit or loses it. No big deal, but seems like a simple and good change. The argument against it is a driver who goes through the pits to gain time on the track. However, I have not seen any tracks that allow better lap times through the pits - so this is a weak argument against this change. 3. More random cautions. Seems that N1 had a caution every 20 laps. Now its every 150 laps. In real racing, cautions are more sporadic. You might see 10 cautions in 100 laps and no cautions for the next 300 laps. At the short tracks too many AI cars lose a lap because of the lack of cautions. This is ok sometimes - but not always. This is not too big a deal - just a suggestion. 4. 2 - wide restarts with lap cars on the inside. All of these changes are simple to implement and would enhance the realism of gameplay. Graphics enhancements are nice - but most motorsports sim fanatics concentrate on driving not sight seeing - so these are secondary.

We do...at Michigan Bart

1 button keystroke for pit changes. Its a pain to be racing and have to slap all of those keystrokes for your pit adjustments.

I think he was referring to cars cutting through the pits to try to better their qual attempts on certain tracks.

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> (Lots of good suggestions snipped.) > > 7) Penalize any car that exceeds the pit road speed limit during > > qualifying. > There isn't a pit road speed limit in RL qualifying... The speed limit > is a safety issue to prevent/reduce human injury to pit crews in pit > lane. Thus, it's not needed, nor enforced, during qualifying. > ---Jim

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>We do...at Michigan >Bart >>How about having actual bumps on the track

what part of the track?

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>My wishlist would have the following >1. A better frame rate,even with Rendition its not as fast as Indycar2 >2.More realistic drafting, and racing at Tally >3.More adjustments- s***or stickers, tape on the front end ,springs and >trac-bar ,engine adj( fuel , timing) spring ***s >4. why do we have a fuel gage?? they dont- lets have our crew chief tell us >the fuel situation. >5.More realistic car physics >6.NROS support out of the box :)

Showers of sparks when hitting the wall and car fires.

On Mon, 06 Oct 1997 15:53:51 -0500, David Martin >35) Give us a track editor. Then leave it up to RaceSet to enforce >whether tracks are genuine or not. >David Martin >Producer of RaceSet What does Raceset have to do with whether a track is "genuine" or not? So what is envisaged is that everytime anyone creates a track then it must be submitted to the the ivga people for their "official" sanction? No thanks, I'll just take the track editor! Leave it up to download statistics to tell you which tracks are good and which ones aren't. All you'd end up with would be 50 squillion dodgy copies of Daytona and Indy with one or two people turning out really good versions of more interesting tracks. The first thing I would make would be Brands Hatch and then start bugging "The Pits" guys for another TPTCC conversion. I doubt Brands Hatch would meet with the approval of any NASCAR guys, waaaay too many right-hand corners. Cheers! John Wallace Producer of electromigration in CPUs

On Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:56:01 -0400, "Tom Hansen" >2. No black flag for speeding in the pits when you DON'T stop. This will >not penalize a driver for spinning into the pits when he/she gets hit or >loses it. No big deal, but seems like a simple and good change. The >argument against it is a driver who goes through the pits to gain time on >the track. However, I have not seen any tracks that allow better lap times >through the pits - so this is a weak argument against this change. Still doesn't work unfortunately. I'm coming into the pits and make a mistake with my braking and slide in too quickly over the line. Rather than stopping and taking a penalty I go straight through and stop again next time around. I still lose time, but nothing like as much as I would have lost taking the stop/go penalty that I should have received. I see your point though and have been caught out/annoyed by this in the past. You'd need to work something in there which decided if the car was under control or not. Cheers! John

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> Same old from me .... > 1. Realistic AI car pit strategy. Leaders pit together, cars don't pit for > tires with very few laps left unless the fuel is exhausted. I have > submitted code fragment and simulation program with algorythms detailing the > model I suggest. So, I am serious about this one as a must fix. I am > surprised others don't list this - hasn't everyone seen a leader pit with 2 > laps to go at Dover (or other track)? Some randomization is a good thing, > but N2 does nothing to consider track position etc. in the random pit > algorythm. > 2. No black flag for speeding in the pits when you DON'T stop. This will > not penalize a driver for spinning into the pits when he/she gets hit or > loses it. No big deal, but seems like a simple and good change. The > argument against it is a driver who goes through the pits to gain time on > the track. However, I have not seen any tracks that allow better lap times > through the pits - so this is a weak argument against this change. > 3. More random cautions. Seems that N1 had a caution every 20 laps. Now > its every 150 laps. In real racing, cautions are more sporadic. You > might see 10 cautions in 100 laps and no cautions for the next 300 laps. At > the short tracks too many AI cars lose a lap because of the lack of > cautions. This is ok sometimes - but not always. This is not too big a > deal - just a suggestion. > 4. 2 - wide restarts with lap cars on the inside. > All of these changes are simple to implement and would enhance the realism > of gameplay. Graphics enhancements are nice - but most motorsports sim > fanatics concentrate on driving not sight seeing - so these are secondary.

I would like to see a 'mode' (like with the function keys for fuel, tire temp etc) which will tell you the car that is physically in front of you (ie not the guy one position ahead of you, but the guy physically 10 feet ahead of you. Quentin -- -/\_ + -/\ \___ --==> Quentin Christensen ####//_\\___\_ + You must make your enemy your bud -\/ _/ + --==> and all will be well... -\/ http://www.ozramp.net.au/~minx/index.html

On Thu, 09 Oct 1997 22:25:56 +1000, Quentin Christensen >I would like to see a 'mode' (like with the function keys for fuel, tire >temp etc) which will tell you the car that is physically in front of you >(ie not the guy one position ahead of you, but the guy physically 10 >feet ahead of you. >Quentin You can already do this using the F2 display box in NASCAR 2. Try hitting the Enter key when the F2 field listing is displayed -- it will switch from a position-sorted list of cars to a real-time display of the cars and their physical proximity to you. -- Papyrus Design Group, Inc. My opinion, not Papyrus' or Sierra's.

> I would like to see a 'mode' (like with the function keys for fuel, tire > temp etc) which will tell you the car that is physically in front of you > (ie not the guy one position ahead of you, but the guy physically 10 > feet ahead of you. In N2 try F2 and then hit Enter. It will display the time interval of the next cars ahead and behind you physically on the track. Mike Basden Remove *nospam* for e-mail replies.

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>I would like to see a 'mode' (like with the function keys for fuel, tire >temp etc) which will tell you the car that is physically in front of you >(ie not the guy one position ahead of you, but the guy physically 10 >feet ahead of you. >Quentin >-- > -/\_ > + -/\ \___ --==> >Quentin Christensen ####//_\\___\_ + >You must make your enemy your bud -\/ _/ + --==> >and all will be well... -\/ >http://www.ozramp.net.au/~minx/index.html

This is already there. Just hit F2, then the <ENTER> key. This gives the cars around you in track position instead of actual race position. Cars are color coded to indicate which cars ou are racing for position. This is great at the short tracks when everything is jumbled up. Tim

>> Same old from me .... >> 1. Realistic AI car pit strategy. Leaders pit together, cars don't pit for >> tires with very few laps left unless the fuel is exhausted. I have >> submitted code fragment and simulation program with algorythms detailing the >> model I suggest. So, I am serious about this one as a must fix. I am >> surprised others don't list this - hasn't everyone seen a leader pit with 2 >> laps to go at Dover (or other track)? Some randomization is a good thing,

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>> but N2 does nothing to consider track position etc. in the random pit >> algorythm. >> 2. No black flag for speeding in the pits when you DON'T stop. This will >> not penalize a driver for spinning into the pits when he/she gets hit or >> loses it. No big deal, but seems like a simple and good change. The >> argument against it is a driver who goes through the pits to gain time on >> the track. However, I have not seen any tracks that allow better lap

times >> through the pits - so this is a weak argument against this change. >> 3. More random cautions. Seems that N1 had a caution every 20 laps. Now >> its every 150 laps. In real racing, cautions are more sporadic. You >> might see 10 cautions in 100 laps and no cautions for the next 300 laps. At

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>> the short tracks too many AI cars lose a lap because of the lack of >> cautions. This is ok sometimes - but not always. This is not too big a >> deal - just a suggestion. >> 4. 2 - wide restarts with lap cars on the inside. >> All of these changes are simple to implement and would enhance the

realism >> of gameplay. Graphics enhancements are nice - but most motorsports sim >> fanatics concentrate on driving not sight seeing - so these are secondary.

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>I would like to see a 'mode' (like with the function keys for fuel, tire >temp etc) which will tell you the car that is physically in front of you >(ie not the guy one position ahead of you, but the guy physically 10 >feet ahead of you. >Quentin >-- > -/\_ > + -/\ \___ --==> >Quentin Christensen ####//_\\___\_ + >You must make your enemy your bud -\/ _/ + --==> >and all will be well... -\/ >http://www.ozramp.net.au/~minx/index.html

why bother? second is good enough, spend some time to work on other things

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>On Mon, 06 Oct 1997 15:53:51 -0500, David Martin >>35) Give us a track editor. Then leave it up to RaceSet to enforce >>whether tracks are genuine or not. >>David Martin >>Producer of RaceSet >What does Raceset have to do with whether a track is "genuine" or not? >So what is envisaged is that everytime anyone creates a track then it >must be submitted to the the ivga people for their "official" >sanction? No thanks, I'll just take the track editor! Leave it up to >download statistics to tell you which tracks are good and which ones >aren't. All you'd end up with would be 50 squillion dodgy copies of >Daytona and Indy with one or two people turning out really good >versions of more interesting tracks. >The first thing I would make would be Brands Hatch and then start >bugging "The Pits" guys for another TPTCC conversion. I doubt Brands >Hatch would meet with the approval of any NASCAR guys, waaaay too many >right-hand corners. >Cheers! >John Wallace >Producer of electromigration in CPUs

well said John

Well I did post a similar request earlier in this thread, so you're not the only one who wants it! Cheers, Richard

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> > I would like to see a 'mode' (like with the function keys for fuel, tire > > temp etc) which will tell you the car that is physically in front of you > > (ie not the guy one position ahead of you, but the guy physically 10 > > feet ahead of you. > In N2 try F2 and then hit Enter. It will display the time interval of > the next cars ahead and behind you physically on the track. > Mike Basden > Remove *nospam* for e-mail replies.

Sorry, I have the original Nascar, I wasn't aware of the difference, In Nascar (original) F2 will display the time interval of the cars ahead and behind you in the race (laps) rather than physically. Cheers Quentin. -- -/\_ + -/\ \___ --==> Quentin Christensen ####//_\\___\_ + You must make your enemy your bud -\/ _/ + --==> and all will be well... -\/ http://www.ozramp.net.au/~minx/index.html

How about other 3d objects on the track, eg, orange cones at Watkins. They can be squashed or whatever too ;)

> I think he was referring to cars cutting through the pits to try to better > their qual attempts on certain tracks. I'm an armchair NASCAR fanatic myself. Bought NASCAR racing when it first came out - LOVED it! Bought N2 when it first came out - LOVED it! I even converted from OS/2 to Win95 just so I could run the demo!! Anyway, I've been thinking I got N2 about what I'd want in the next version. About the only thing I can think of is a little more fallability in computer drivers, and a moving pit crew and crowd. Maybe make it easier to import new cars and make trucks an addon. Sometime soon I'm hoping to be able to do more than turn a few laps in practice!! Don Hancock

Just want to put in my 2 cents worth - How about TRACK ACCURACY!!!!!!! I've attended races at most of the tracks over the last 20 years and can tell you Simmers out there that things ain't always what they seem. Take Talladega, for example. REAL THING NASCAR 2 ---------------- ----------------- - No wall on outside of Pit Road You guessed it - A wall outside of Pit Road - Track is Tan colored with black patch Track is Grey or silver with a few skids lines covering years of cracks - No covered front stretch stands under Cover stands. the Press tower between O.V. North and O.V. South. - Cars sound like clean/crackling/ Cars sound like...Something. Ain't a 850 horse booming/thunderous ENGINES motor though. - Track is NOT Smooth but rather very Car travels over track with nary a bump or jerk. bumpy and grainy. - Infield grass inside of the dogleg is Infield grass is a narrow strip. HUGE. - Access to the garage area is gained No garage yet but also no roads off of back stretch by roads in pit road as well as on the that winds through to pitroad back stretch Anyway, you get my point. NASCAR 2 is the best thing out there but we need to encourage Papyrus to do better. The bar has been raised by the people behind the accurate-to-within-10-centimeter CART Precision Racing. Demand better, and keep it off the apron. PC

The main things *I* would like to see: 1-Crashes cause by AI (not involving me...contact with OTHER AI...) 2-A setup similar to NASCAR1 where you could run at ANY track no matter what calendar you have loaded. 3-Damagable sides. 4-A STINKIN' TRACK EDITOR :) 5-Separate car shapes for each make with a way to alter them to make your own. 6-All WC, BGN, and Truck tracks. 7-Damage more realistic (ex, you don't damage a tire every time you hit the wall...I've seen cars slap the wall with the side of thier car at 20mph IRL and just did a little sheet metal damage). 8-AI Speeds corresponding with real speeds at the real track. None of this 196mph ***at Dega when they only REALLY qual there at 193. 9-An option to decide what damage to fix and what not to. 10-When you wreck, if its bad, you sit behind the wall for a while and get fixed. Not like now where you get a little damage and you may lose a lap, but if it goes beyond that you are out of the race. 11-More RANDOM random breakdowns. 12-Blown tires. 13-A few more setup options, such as track bars and ***s in the springs. Thats all I can think of right now. Mike Fraze r

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>I'm an armchair NASCAR fanatic myself. Bought NASCAR racing when it >first came out - LOVED it! Bought N2 when it first came out - LOVED it! >I even converted from OS/2 to Win95 just so I could run the demo!! >Anyway, I've been thinking I got N2 about what I'd want in the next >version. About the only thing I can think of is a little more >fallability in computer drivers, and a moving pit crew and crowd. Maybe >make it easier to import new cars and make trucks an addon. >Sometime soon I'm hoping to be able to do more than turn a few laps in >practice!! >Don Hancock

Mike Frazer #11 American Airlines/STP/MBNA Ford, IGN Prime Time Motorsports