NASCAR pitlanes

Is it just me or are papy curving the pitlanes like they did in their other NASCAR games?

> Is it just me or are papy curving the pitlanes like they did in their > other NASCAR games? Obviously today's computers are not nearly fast enough to handle 43 cars on a straight pit road. However, the fact that they were able to give us such incredible smoke more than makes up for it. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Hi there, How rude ( Jar Jar Binks ) :-) Greetings, Michael Staab -- Meine Grand Prix Legends Homepage: http://home.rhein-zeitung.de/~mstab/ Mitglied in der CAR, Verein fr PC-Rennsimulationen http://www.car-ev.de/ " To race is to live, everything else is just waiting"

I wouldn't think that it is a matter of compromise. If a game modeled PERFECT smoke, but the realism in the game was the worst for any game, would it still be good? I agree with you that maybe it has something to do with today's computer power. Maybe for some reason their pit lanes must be parallel to the racing surface which would be their track creating program's fault. JB

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> > Is it just me or are papy curving the pitlanes like they did in their > > other NASCAR games? > Obviously today's computers are not nearly fast enough to handle 43 > cars on a straight pit road. However, the fact that they were able to > give us such incredible smoke more than makes up for it. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Am I the only person here that's not as e***d about the new smoke as about free TCP/IP gameplay? :) Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited

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>Nope. >Zog >> >Obviously today's computers are not nearly fast enough to handle 43 >> >cars on a straight pit road. However, the fact that they were able to >> >give us such incredible smoke more than makes up for it. >> Am I the only person here that's not as e***d about the new smoke as >about >> free TCP/IP gameplay? :) >> Dan Belcher >> Team Racing Unlimited

Heh. I thought not... Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited

Nope. Zog

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> >Obviously today's computers are not nearly fast enough to handle 43 > >cars on a straight pit road. However, the fact that they were able to > >give us such incredible smoke more than makes up for it. > Am I the only person here that's not as e***d about the new smoke as about > free TCP/IP gameplay? :) > Dan Belcher > Team Racing Unlimited

> Am I the only person here that's not as e***d about the new smoke as about > free TCP/IP gameplay? :) They can keep the free uncontrolled gameplay. If I wanted that I'd race a REAL sim like GPL. The $20 per month I pay for a controlled racing environment with cheat detection and a ranking system is worth every penny. BTW, I could care less about the smoke, it's the first option I plan to turn off. My post was meant to be a parody of the "computers can't handle 43 cars with the GPL engine" posts. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Im WAY more e***d about the free online than the smoke. Only thing keeping me from racing N2 online was i didnt want to pony up all the money for the fees (TEN was hourly charges at first...is it still?) Chris

It is/was only 39.00 every 3 mos. Best 39.00 I have spent every 3 mos over the past few years. Tons of fun.... Bill / Amish on TEN

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> >Obviously today's computers are not nearly fast enough to handle 43 > >cars on a straight pit road. However, the fact that they were able to > >give us such incredible smoke more than makes up for it. > Am I the only person here that's not as e***d about the new smoke as about > free TCP/IP gameplay? :) > Dan Belcher > Team Racing Unlimited

Amen... free online play... hmmm... You can even select the car you want to race online. Philster

>> Am I the only person here that's not as e***d about the new >>smoke as about free TCP/IP gameplay? :) I'm with you, but I think the guy making a big deal out of the smoke is being just a tad sarcastic. You could also race in a league. In league play, it can become real obvious real fast when someone looks like they have an unnatural advantage. Besides, what's the point in cheating? You're not really better than anyone when you do it... I ran two league seasons for GPL and it was some of the best racing I've ever encountered. I hope to have the same experiences in my N3 league. -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting) http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2 http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html Super X Philes http://members.home.net/kap/superx/superx.html If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

> You could also race in a league. In league play, it can become real > obvious real fast when someone looks like they have an unnatural > advantage. Besides, what's the point in cheating? You're not really > better than anyone when you do it... I agree with you, and I prefer to run the longer types of races that usually only happen in leagues. Unfortunately, my schedule just doesn't permit me to do so. I never know when I am going to have some free time but when I do it is nice to know I can log on to a service like TEN to create a race and have the ability to look up important stats such as LPI on the people I allow into my race. Cheating is going to be a HUGE issue with N3. Remember, it won't just be serious racers anymore like it is with GPL or on a pay per play service like TEN. Every hacker with a pirated copy of N3 Beta is going to be out there wanting to win at all costs - kind of like Earnhardt. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

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>> You could also race in a league. In league play, it can become real >> obvious real fast when someone looks like they have an unnatural >> advantage. Besides, what's the point in cheating? You're not really >> better than anyone when you do it... >I agree with you, and I prefer to run the longer types of races that >usually only happen in leagues. Unfortunately, my schedule just doesn't >permit me to do so.

Well, I guess you're gonna have to put up with public pickup races, or schedule a race ahead of time with known decent drivers. When I was racing on TEN, LPI and skill ratings didn't mean squat to me. Of course, I spent most of my time in league races on TEN, so it wasn't that big of an issue for me. My LPI was only in the 40's when I finally quit racing on TEN, and I can't remember my skill rating. Hmmmm, I don't recall cheating being an issue with GPL, and I don't really think it'll be an issue with N3. If Papy does it right, someone won't be able to connect to an N3 server with a modified executable, and the server will set the track parameters by reading its own track.dat file. Beyond that, if you're that worried about cheating, maybe a nice game of checkers would suit you better. (I'm just being a smartass - don't take it personally.) :-) -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting) http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html Super X Philes http://members.home.net/kap/superx/superx.html If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

What does LPI mean? Zog

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> >> You could also race in a league. In league play, it can become real > >> obvious real fast when someone looks like they have an unnatural > >> advantage. Besides, what's the point in cheating? You're not really > >> better than anyone when you do it... > >I agree with you, and I prefer to run the longer types of races that > >usually only happen in leagues. Unfortunately, my schedule just doesn't > >permit me to do so. > Well, I guess you're gonna have to put up with public pickup races, or > schedule a race ahead of time with known decent drivers. > >I never know when I am going to have some free time but when I do it is > >nice to know I can log on to a service like TEN to create a race and > >have the ability to look up important stats such as LPI on the people I > >allow into my race. > When I was racing on TEN, LPI and skill ratings didn't mean squat to me. > Of course, I spent most of my time in league races on TEN, so it wasn't > that big of an issue for me. My LPI was only in the 40's when I finally > quit racing on TEN, and I can't remember my skill rating. > >Cheating is going to be a HUGE issue with N3. Remember, it won't just > >be serious racers anymore like it is with GPL or on a pay per play > >service like TEN. Every hacker with a pirated copy of N3 Beta is going > >to be out there wanting to win at all costs - kind of like Earnhardt. > Hmmmm, I don't recall cheating being an issue with GPL, and I don't > really think it'll be an issue with N3. If Papy does it right, someone > won't be able to connect to an N3 server with a modified executable, and > the server will set the track parameters by reading its own track.dat > file. > Beyond that, if you're that worried about cheating, maybe a nice game of > checkers would suit you better. (I'm just being a smartass - don't take > it personally.) :-) > -- > ========================================================= > Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) > http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html > Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting) > http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html > North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition > http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html > Super X Philes > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

<snip> You are correct, the pit lane must be parallel with the track. But it's not the track creating program's fault; cars in ICR1, N1, ICR2, N2, NR99, GPL, and now NR3 pit (or park in GPL's case) parallel to the track. Jon

LPI is "Laps Per Incident". The entire TEN skill ranking system is bogus because the system doesn't account for number of opponents on a given track. For instance, it's much easier to go incident free at Taladega with 20 opponents than it is to do the same thing at Bristol or Martinsville. says...

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>What does LPI mean? >>>I never know when I am going to have some free time but when >>>I do it is nice to know I can log on to a service like TEN >>>to create a race and have the ability to look up important >>>stats such as LPI on the people I allow into my race. >>When I was racing on TEN, LPI and skill ratings didn't mean >>squat to me. Of course, I spent most of my time in league >>races on TEN, so it wasn't that big of an issue for me. My >>LPI was only in the 40's when I finally quit racing on TEN, >>and I can't remember my skill rating.

-- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting) http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2 http://www.paddedwall.org/igps2/igps2.html North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html Super X Philes http://members.home.net/kap/superx/superx.html If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

Lizard Programming Interface. It's a network term. Not important. The Mocker

> LPI is "Laps Per Incident". > The entire TEN skill ranking system is bogus because the system doesn't > account for number of opponents on a given track. For instance, it's > much easier to go incident free at Taladega with 20 opponents than it is > to do the same thing at Bristol or Martinsville. John, this is not true. You would find on average of the top 100 ranked racers on TEN that the average LPI of those racers are lower at Dega than Bristol or Marty. Bill / Amish on TEN

Yeah, that's what I figured.

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> > What does LPI mean? > > Zog > Lizard Programming Interface. It's a network term. Not important. > The Mocker

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>> LPI is "Laps Per Incident". >> The entire TEN skill ranking system is bogus because the system doesn't >> account for number of opponents on a given track. For instance, it's >> much easier to go incident free at Taladega with 20 opponents than it is >> to do the same thing at Bristol or Martinsville. >John, this is not true. You would find on average of the top 100 ranked >racers on TEN that the average LPI of those racers are lower at Dega >than Bristol or Marty. >Bill / Amish on TEN

On Average: Incidence per race is higher at Bristol Laps per race is much higher at Bristol I agree it's easier to go incident free at Dega compared to Bristol. But "incident free" is not exactly the same thing as LPI.

Both what you and John says can be true ;-). Races at Dega consist of many less laps than at Bristol or Marty and hence raw LPI isn't a good indication of how easy it is (or at least should be!) to go incident free. RPI (races per incident) is a better way of comparing across different tracks. Cheers, Richard

"Cheat Detection"?????? Name 2 guys that have got nailed for cheating in 2 years?? I believe there was more than one guy that cheated in 2 years, maybe you don't but I do. If more than 1 guy did cheat, then what's the point of detection if they don't do anything about it. -- Sean Higgins "HigPup" "Hollywood" for R6 "Hollywood__NWO" for ZONE http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/hsts2/ HSTS, Powered by ATI Rage 128 http://www.atitech.ca/~higgy/ http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/hsts2/ Colormation (sponsor of H.O. Motorsports) http://www.atitech.ca ATI Technologies >> Am I the only person here that's not as e***d about the new smoke >as about >> free TCP/IP gameplay? :) >They can keep the free uncontrolled gameplay. If I wanted that I'd >race a REAL sim like GPL. The $20 per month I pay for a controlled >racing environment with cheat detection and a ranking system is worth >every penny.

> "Cheat Detection"?????? Name 2 guys that have got nailed for cheating in 2 > years?? Only one guy got kicked out for cheating, but I know a lot of guys suddenly stopped turning those 190's at Michigan once TEN started checking the tires line in the track.txt files. I never lost the draft at Taledega after that either. They also got rid of the "\" key cheat where people would warp themselves by taking screen shots. Then there was that reverse key cheat which allowed people to "brake" quicker by slamming into reverse, and that was eliminated. Regardless, I'll take only one guy getting busted over open season for hackers any day. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Well... Sean... I would still rather have a centralized place to race with Chat and Rankings. The service is/was owned by Sierra/Papyrus. Some people want to blame TEN for any problem without really knowing the business arangement. I say we are REALLY screwed if we don't have some type of centralized location for us all to race and make a "community". VROC style just will not cut it in my book. Bill / Amish on TEN

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>"Cheat Detection"?????? Name 2 guys that have got nailed for cheating in 2 >years?? I believe there was more than one guy that cheated in 2 years, >maybe you don't but I do. If more than 1 guy did cheat, then what's the >point of detection if they don't do anything about it. >-- >Sean Higgins >"HigPup" >"Hollywood" for R6 "Hollywood__NWO" for ZONE >http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/hsts2/ HSTS, Powered by ATI Rage 128 >http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/ >http://www.colormation.com Colormation (sponsor of H.O. Motorsports) >http://www.atitech.ca ATI Technologies >>> Am I the only person here that's not as e***d about the new smoke >>as about >>> free TCP/IP gameplay? :) >>They can keep the free uncontrolled gameplay. If I wanted that I'd >>race a REAL sim like GPL. The $20 per month I pay for a controlled >>racing environment with cheat detection and a ranking system is worth >>every penny.

> "Cheat Detection"?????? Name 2 guys that have got nailed for cheating in 2 > years?? I believe there was more than one guy that cheated in 2 years, > maybe you don't but I do. If more than 1 guy did cheat, then what's the > point of detection if they don't do anything about it. They are logging it for future purposes <VBFG> Guess that's out the window now eh ? -- Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/ "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

I'm with you on that, but the cheat detection was a joke in my book. I do think a centralized place or even 2 would be the best way to go. I don't like racing GPL at all. There are 40 servers and 10 drivers evertime I go there. -- Sean Higgins "HigPup" "Hollywood" for R6 "Hollywood__NWO" for ZONE http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/hsts2/ HSTS, Powered by ATI Rage 128 http://home.sprintmail.com/~higgy/ http://www.colormation.com Colormation (sponsor of H.O. Motorsports) http://www.atitech.ca ATI Technologies >Well... Sean... I would still rather have a centralized place to race with >Chat and Rankings. The service is/was owned by Sierra/Papyrus. Some people >want to blame TEN for any problem without really knowing the business >arangement. I say we are REALLY screwed if we don't have some type of >centralized location for us all to race and make a "community". VROC style >just will not cut it in my book. >Bill / Amish on TEN

>I'm with you on that, but the cheat detection was a joke in my book. I do >think a centralized place or even 2 would be the best way to go. I don't >like racing GPL at all. There are 40 servers and 10 drivers evertime I go >there. It was a joke because they didn't publish it on the website. I think there were other guys busted for cheating (Hacking up the track.dat's etc..) but were just kept quite for whatever reason. Probably more to do with PR stuff than anything. NOTE: I am just guessing Sean, so I really don't know for sure. You could/probably are right too. Don't know... That is what we get without good communication heheheheh. Bill / Amish on TEN

That's absolutely true. There was only 1 case of a person being said publicly about his cheating action on the NROS, but be sure that alot more people had temporary TEN account blocked because they got caught cheating. I fear the lack of that will open alot of doors for N3, like per example for GPL how easy it would be for anybody with track editing knowledge to cheat. It's very easy, add some banking here, put asphalt instead of grass there.. bingo you do easy 128's at Monza without anybody ever thinking you cheat. Well I can only do high 129's with my Honda, so no way I cheat ;-P -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

>> It was a joke because they didn't publish it on the website. I think >there >> were other guys busted for cheating (Hacking up the track.dat's etc..) but >> were just kept quite for whatever reason. >That's absolutely true. There was only 1 case of a person being said >publicly about his cheating action on the NROS, but be sure that alot more >people had temporary TEN account blocked because they got caught cheating. >I fear the lack of that will open alot of doors for N3, like per example for >GPL how easy it would be for anybody with track editing knowledge to cheat. >It's very easy, add some banking here, put asphalt instead of grass there.. >bingo you do easy 128's at Monza without anybody ever thinking you cheat. >Well I can only do high 129's with my Honda, so no way I cheat ;-P Sure it might be easy to modify those files. But it could also be part of the protocal where the host and client must have the same files (checksums) or the client can't race.

>The only way I could see a checksum system working is on a pay to play >service, where everyone agrees to a set of rules prior to joining the >service. When I tested NR1999 on Kali I kept seeing messages about an out of date, or invalid track file.. Since I know my track files were straight from the CD, it may have been the other guy's files, or just noise on the line. The point being is somewhere in the bowels of NR1999 is some track verification code.

> Sure it might be easy to modify those files. > But it could also be part of the protocal where the host and client must > have the same files (checksums) or the client can't race. They could do that, but I can imagine the whining that would take place when Joe Bob applies his Ford/Chevy/Pontiac patch and could no longer race with Jim Bob. Then Billy Ray adds a Billy Ray's Donuts Billboard patch to his dega track, now he can't race. I can hear the customer support lines ringing at Sierra already: "I paid good money far this here game, I'll patch it however I please! Yawl cawlin' me a cheeter? I'm commin'up thar an kickin' yer tail! Where the heck is Massachusie anyhow?" The only way I could see a checksum system working is on a pay to play service, where everyone agrees to a set of rules prior to joining the service. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

(John

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>Simmons) writes: >>You could also race in a league. In league play, it can become real >>obvious real fast when someone looks like they have an unnatural >>advantage. Besides, what's the point in cheating? You're not really >>better than anyone when you do it... >...but it will never stop people from DOING it... :-( >Eldred

Just curious, has cheating ever been an issue with VROC/GSB -> GPL, and if so, what kind of preventions have been taken to stop it?

...but it will never stop people from DOING it... :-( Eldred __ Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto GPL.GAMESTATS.COM/VROC If all the world's a stage, where is the audience sitting? remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Rail-riding at Monza comes to mind.... Eldred __ Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto GPL.GAMESTATS.COM/VROC If all the world's a stage, where is the audience sitting? remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>I'm with you on that, but the cheat detection was a joke in my book. I do >think a centralized place or even 2 would be the best way to go. I don't >like racing GPL at all. There are 40 servers and 10 drivers evertime I go >there. So you don't like GPL because of too MANY choices? It seems to me that the same thing happens on TEN, at least last time I checked. 9 races in each room, 6 at Tally, 2 at Michigan, and the odd race at Bristol or Martinsville. Most people seemingly being more interested in chatting than actual racing... Has that changed much? Not flaming, but showing parallels... Eldred __ Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto GPL.GAMESTATS.COM/VROC If all the world's a stage, where is the audience sitting? remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>>Hmmmm, I don't recall cheating being an issue with GPL... >Rail-riding at Monza comes to mind.... That was endemic of novice races only. It is almost non-existant in Intermediate races, and never seen in pro/GP races. Like I told tracy, if you're so worried about cheating, maybe you'd be better off with a board game. -- ========================================================= Redneck Techno-Biker (Zerex12) http://www.members.home.net/jms1/index.html Barbarian Diecast Collector (370+ cars and counting) http://members.home.net/jsimm/diecast_index.html Internet Grand Prix Series Season 2 http://www.paddedwall.org/igps2/igps2.html North American Stockcar Racing Online Competition http://www.paddedwall.org/nasroc1/nasroc1.html Super X Philes http://members.home.net/kap/superx/superx.html If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================