PAPY.com has new screenshot of NASCAR LEGENDS

www.papy.com has a new screenshot of NASCAR LEGENDS It really looks great. What do y'all think of it?

Looking at all three cars, there is no body roll. The graphics appear as if they could be using the N3 physics. If so, this, and N3 are going to be a big disappointment to me. The graphics are an improvement, but the physics (from the picture only) look just the same as N2 :( > www.papy.com has a new screenshot of NASCAR LEGENDS > It really looks great. What do y'all think of it? -- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

I think the guy in the green car is heading for a repair bill. ;-)) Seriously, I don't think it's opportune to start forming opinions about a game based on a screenshot. Jan./ gimme a demo and I'll think about it. ------ ><snip> >It really looks great. What do y'all think of it?

I think it looks ugly. Just my opinion.

: I think the guy in the green car is heading for a repair bill. ;-)) : Seriously, I don't think it's opportune to start forming opinions about a : game based on a screenshot. Nonsense - it's never stopped us before. Looks pathetic to me - call that physics modelling? The screenshot I saw had no forcefeedback. -- Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Then don't buy it. The rest of us will have a good time with it.

What has this newsgroup come to where someone can't give their opinion on a subject? Let people say what they think. Imagine if this newsgroup was for positive comments only, nothing would really happen. JB

It would be a borring place too, half the people come here just post bad stuff just as a way to have a voice and see if other agree. Want I don't get is people who defend a product as if they made it or own it. There will never be any product out there that everyone loves or agrees is the best. Just my 2 cents worth, as I have nothing else to do today :) -- Jeff Murchison JR Screamers League Administrator http://members.tripod.com/grandprixlegends > What has this newsgroup come to where someone can't give their opinion on a > subject? Let people say what they think. Imagine if this newsgroup was for > positive comments only, nothing would really happen. > JB > > >Looking at all three cars, there is no body roll. The graphics appear > > >as if they could be using the N3 physics. If so, this, and N3 are going > > >to be a big disappointment to me. > > Then don't buy it. The rest of us will have a good time with it.

Mike, Zip it and go read my review over at GA-Sports on N3 will ya <VBG> You've been running F3s too long. You just aren't use to going fast enough to have body roll anyways! =)) BTW - We had a great time at Watkins last week. Sorry you weren't there. Scott PA-Scott G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com Webmaster - NASCAR-3.COM Contributing Editor - GA-Sports - http://www.GA-Sports.com Contributing Editor - "The View" on High Gear - http://www.simracingnews.com > Looking at all three cars, there is no body roll. The graphics appear > as if they could be using the N3 physics. If so, this, and N3 are going > to be a big disappointment to me. The graphics are an improvement, but > the physics (from the picture only) look just the same as N2 :( -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

LOL! And the in game menu's are appauling! Rob Swindells 3rd equal in Goldline Bearing FFord Championship (18 Points); 9 points behind Championship Leader (as of round 4 of 6) "If you're a great driver, you will get through. It's not harder than any time before." ~Martin Brundle

Try this before spend money for a recyled idea and a too many times used graphics and physics. Papy, spend your time in helping Randy Cassidy to patch the GPL-Patch:), develop Indycar/Cart3 or make Nascar3 as perfect for Online *** as you can. Sorry to say, but this is poor (where did you get the idea for Nascar Legends?:) Look above??). Just my thoughts Cheers Dirk TRUSRS85 schrieb: -- --------------------------------------------- [link lost in import] [link lost in import]

I went ahead and read your article. It seams as though the Graphics update is the biggest thing. Which is good. However, you seem to describe the driving physics as if it was only a tick better then N2. Since you're the one with the Alpha release, you can tell better then I can from the screen shots. :-) Mike

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> Mike, > Zip it and go read my review over at GA-Sports on N3 will ya <VBG> > You've been running F3s too long. You just aren't use to going fast enough to > have body roll anyways! =)) > BTW - We had a great time at Watkins last week. Sorry you weren't there. > Scott > PA-Scott > G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com > Webmaster - NASCAR-3.COM > Contributing Editor - GA-Sports - http://www.GA-Sports.com > Contributing Editor - "The View" on High Gear - http://www.simracingnews.com > > Looking at all three cars, there is no body roll. The graphics appear > > as if they could be using the N3 physics. If so, this, and N3 are going > > to be a big disappointment to me. The graphics are an improvement, but > > the physics (from the picture only) look just the same as N2 :( > -- > Scott B. Husted > ICQ# 4395450

-- ========================================= Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing? ========================================= Racing online with the help of...... Race Communications Association http://members.xoom.com/RCA/toc.html Holodyne Engineering Mystic Music (have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

The only thing that I was saying was that the original poster based his opinion on the sim from a single screenshot. How does he, or any of us, know what the sim is going to have in it from a single posted screenshot with no text going along with it? He was dismissing it based on a first impression. There are some of us who enjoy racing the sims that Sierra and Papyrus put out. No matter what "physics engine", "force feedback", "body roll", "GPL this or GPL that" that are, or aren't, in the game. Remember, this is a c o m p u t e r s i m u l a t i o n game. And, if you want the real thing, you can do so at 1-800-BE-PETTY. Try it, it will give you a new perspective.

Mike, For people who will accept nothing less than the GPL engine (Im not categorizing you with them) in N3... then nothing matters anyways. N3 will be an improvement over N2/N99. I feel it is more than just a face lift with pretty graphics. I did not waste my money on N99 but I will most definitely recommend N3 as an improvement. At least from my early indications. Again, it is just an ALPHA but you do get a sense of the car leaning that is missing in N2/N99. I cannot comment on the Legends sim. N3 will fall short of the physics in GPL and Viper Racing, but we just have to accept that for now or not buy it <G>. The feel of the car, at least from the ALPHA, seems to be further developed than in N2/N99. Not to mention the hugely improved sound engine. Hell, for nothing less than the worst possibly scenario, N3 is worth the money just to race outside the DOS environment and have multiplayer capability. <G> Some people need to just "let it go" when it comes to the GPL engine in N3 because its over with, done, not going to happen, and its time to move on <VBG> Maybe in N4 in late 2000 or sometime in 2001. For those NASCAR fans who don't like N3, there is always the wonderful array of NASCAR products over at EA Sports <VBG> NASCAR-3.COM presented by GA-Sports is coming soon! Scott PA-Scott -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

> www.papy.com has a new screenshot of NASCAR LEGENDS > It really looks great. What do y'all think of it? Finally! They put decent looking drivers in the cars, not that 2D Cardboard cut-out, black and white driver found in all the other NASCAR games... I also assume this is a picture from one of the road course. Which one do you think? I want more pictures! Philster

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> Mike, > For people who will accept nothing less than the GPL engine (Im not categorizing you > with them) in N3... then nothing matters anyways. N3 will be an improvement over > N2/N99. I feel it is more than just a face lift with pretty graphics. I did not > waste my money on N99 but I will most definitely recommend N3 as an improvement. At > least from my early indications. Again, it is just an ALPHA but you do get a sense of > the car leaning that is missing in N2/N99. I cannot comment on the Legends sim. N3 > will fall short of the physics in GPL and Viper Racing, but we just have to accept > that for now or not buy it <G>. The feel of the car, at least from the ALPHA, seems > to be further developed than in N2/N99. Not to mention the hugely improved sound > engine. Hell, for nothing less than the worst possibly scenario, N3 is worth the > money just to race outside the DOS environment and have multiplayer capability. <G>

Car physics is interesting. But think of the following: up to 43 cars online! (some restriction may apply, but the potential is still there), no graphic pop-up (based on seting 6, as described in your article). Just the online portion is enough for me to buy this game. No more paying for TEN. If online racing is stable, then this is a winner. Philster

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> : I think the guy in the green car is heading for a repair bill. ;-)) > : Seriously, I don't think it's opportune to start forming opinions about a > : game based on a screenshot. > Nonsense - it's never stopped us before. > Looks pathetic to me - call that physics modelling? The screenshot I > saw had no forcefeedback.

Tisk! What about the engine? A pathetic imitation of a 1970 stock car.

Oh man a racing experience. That won't give you a new perspective and in no way is it "the real thing". You are driving around at maybe 100MPH on a 200MPH track. Maybe you get a feel for 100MPH but no way is it racing. Try a professional racing school if you are up for getting a new perspective and "the real thing". I feel sorry for you if you did the Petty experience. BTW, yes I have done a professional driving school if you are wondering. I went up the Canada for the Bridgestone Racing Academy... www.race2000.com, though I doubt anyone cares. Just my comments, JB

He was making a point, not debating the quality of specific racing schools. If you missed his point, I think it might be that just because it isn't perfect realism doesn't mean it won't be fun. Your comment on the screen shot is is shallow one to be sure, if we didn't already know that the game won't be featuring the GPL physics you would never have mentioned it. > Oh man a racing experience. That won't give you a new perspective and in no > way is it "the real thing". You are driving around at maybe 100MPH on a > 200MPH track. Maybe you get a feel for 100MPH but no way is it racing. Try > a professional racing school if you are up for getting a new perspective and > "the real thing". I feel sorry for you if you did the Petty experience. > BTW, yes I have done a professional driving school if you are wondering. I

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> went up the Canada for the Bridgestone Racing Academy... www.race2000.com, > though I doubt anyone cares. > Just my comments, > JB > > The only thing that I was saying was that the original poster based his > opinion > > on the sim from a single screenshot. How does he, or any of us, know

what > the > > sim is going to have in it from a single posted screenshot with no text > going > > along with it? He was dismissing it based on a first impression. > > There are some of us who enjoy racing the sims that Sierra and Papyrus put > out. > > No matter what "physics engine", "force feedback", "body roll", "GPL this > or > > GPL that" that are, or aren't, in the game. > > Remember, this is a c o m p u t e r s i m u l a t i o n game. And, if > you > > want the real thing, you can do so at 1-800-BE-PETTY. Try it, it will give > you > > a new perspective. > > >What has this newsgroup come to where someone can't give their opinion on > a > > >subject? Let people say what they think. Imagine if this newsgroup was > for > > >positive comments only, nothing would really happen. > > >JB

LOL... serves me right. ;-) Jan. ------ ><snip>

I like the smoke effects, the "dynamic" skidmarks, and the fact that the insides of the wheel are shown. If N3 looks that good, I'm gonna have to buy a new video card. Ryan

Philster, I have not had the good fortune to test N3 out online, but the "rumors" are that the online testing for N3 are going extremely well. Again, this just feedback I'm getting and can not confirm the info. I am hopeful though. If you have the PC power, then the draw ahead to 6 is definitely a nice feature to at least minimize the "pop up" effects. Scott PA-Scott -- Scott B. Husted "PA-Scott" G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com GA-Sports - Contributing Editor - http://www.GA-Sports.com NASCAR-3.COM - Webmaster High Gear "The View" Editor - http://www.simracingnews.com Personal Homepage - http://home.earthlink.net/~sbhusted ICQ# 4395450

Not only that -- it's also obvious from the screenshot that the AI is atrocious. <G> -- JB

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>: I think the guy in the green car is heading for a repair bill. ;-)) >: Seriously, I don't think it's opportune to start forming opinions about a >: game based on a screenshot. > Nonsense - it's never stopped us before. > Looks pathetic to me - call that physics modelling? The screenshot I >saw had no forcefeedback. >-- >Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving >Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York. >www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

Being the original poster of this message.......All I said was the game looks great to ME. Yes it was only 1 screenshot, but it was only me OPINION. And I did not dismiss the game. I said the screenshot looks GREAT to ME. Please fully read before posting.

I think it looks neat, but then again I'm an old fart and think the cars of GPL look neat too. :) My question: I can't identify the turn, but that flat banking (and "sandy" background) makes me think of Riverside (maybe the second hairpin???). Anyone know what tracks will be included? "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

I'm more interested in the body shape. All we see are pre 70's Torinos. With that body 3do you could do Mercs and Dodge Chargers, but Plymouths and Amc's and the Aero Cars(Daytona and Superbird) are right out. I would love it if Papy would finally include more than just one body 3do to build it's cars from. dave henrie

I don't mean to argue too much with you but I didn't comment on the screen shot. I don't mind what physics model will be in the game. As long as its a good racing sim with good fun and not an arcade game. All I was commenting on in my earlier post was the fact that people that make negative comments towards a game or whatever get shotdown way too much. DW says "Then don't buy it," concerning the fact that Barlow didn't like the fact that there was no realism concerning the body roll. This is not the way we should be handling negative comments on a newsgroup. Like I said before, if no one says something bad about a game, where will this newsgroup go? Oh well forget everything I said. I'm sorry. *climbs back in his dark hole* JB > He was making a point, not debating the quality of specific racing schools.

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> If you missed his point, I think it might be that just because it isn't > perfect realism doesn't mean it won't be fun. Your comment on the screen > shot is is shallow one to be sure, if we didn't already know that the game > won't be featuring the GPL physics you would never have mentioned it. > > Oh man a racing experience. That won't give you a new perspective and

in

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> no > > way is it "the real thing". You are driving around at maybe 100MPH on a > > 200MPH track. Maybe you get a feel for 100MPH but no way is it racing. > Try > > a professional racing school if you are up for getting a new perspective > and > > "the real thing". I feel sorry for you if you did the Petty experience. > > BTW, yes I have done a professional driving school if you are wondering. > I > > went up the Canada for the Bridgestone Racing Academy...

www.race2000.com,

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> > though I doubt anyone cares. > > Just my comments, > > JB > > > The only thing that I was saying was that the original poster based

his > > opinion > > > on the sim from a single screenshot. How does he, or any of us, know > what > > the > > > sim is going to have in it from a single posted screenshot with no text

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> > going > > > along with it? He was dismissing it based on a first impression. > > > There are some of us who enjoy racing the sims that Sierra and Papyrus > put > > out. > > > No matter what "physics engine", "force feedback", "body roll", "GPL > this > > or > > > GPL that" that are, or aren't, in the game. > > > Remember, this is a c o m p u t e r s i m u l a t i o n game. And, > if > > you > > > want the real thing, you can do so at 1-800-BE-PETTY. Try it, it will > give > > you > > > a new perspective. > > > >What has this newsgroup come to where someone can't give their

opinion

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> on > > a > > > >subject? Let people say what they think. Imagine if this newsgroup > was > > for > > > >positive comments only, nothing would really happen. > > > >JB

Actually he was answering Michael Barlow's post - not yours. But my newsread drops messages, too. Gunner

(snip) Some people need to just "let it go" when it comes to the GPL engine in N3 because its over with, done, not going to happen, and its time to move on <VBG> (unsnip) Move on to what, exactly? If the core physics of GPL was a "once only" event and will not be further utilised, what, exactly, will Papyrus be "moving on" to? To improve on N2 then the basis for the physics improvement has to be something similar to that used in GPL. It doesn't make sense NOT to utilise that which has already been created and which is acknowledged as the leading physics engine of any racing sim available to date. Any new simulation produced by Papyrus that doesn't give us the same type of physics available in GPL (whether the GPL "engine" is used or not) is a step backwards....NOT an advancement. -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

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>>>The only thing that I was saying was that the original poster based his >>>opinion >>>on the sim from a single screenshot. How does he, or any of us, know what >the >>>sim is going to have in it from a single posted screenshot with no text >going >>>along with it? He was dismissing it based on a first impression. >>Being the original poster of this message.......All I said was the game >looks >>great to ME. Yes it was only 1 screenshot, but it was only me OPINION. And >I >>did not dismiss the game. I said the screenshot looks GREAT to ME. Please >>fully read before posting. > Actually he was answering Michael Barlow's post - not yours. >But my newsread drops messages, too. >Gunner

ORIGINAL MESSAGE [Comment below.] =============================== Subject:Re: PAPY.com has new screenshot of NASCAR LEGENDS Date: 1999/08/23 Author: Michael Barlow Looking at all three cars, there is no body roll. The graphics appear as if they could be using the N3 physics. If so, this, and N3 are going to be a big disappointment to me. The graphics are an improvement, but the physics (from the picture only) look just the same as N2 :( > > www.papy.com has a new screenshot of NASCAR LEGENDS > > It really looks great. What do y'all think of it? -- I was replying to the gentelman - Michael Barlow - screenshot. That was the original poster that I meant, no disrespect to you. And yes, the screenshots do look great and I can't wait for it to be released!

Blimey, can't someone just express an opinion round here. >>Looking at all three cars, there is no body roll. The graphics appear >>as if they could be using the N3 physics. If so, this, and N3 are going >>to be a big disappointment to me. *** Then don't buy it. The rest of us will have a good time with it.

Great question. The idea of a company being complacent and getting surpassed by another company is bothersome, but the idea of a company being so complacent it is surpassed by itself is unbelievable! I have to think there was much more to the story behind not using the GPL engine than the old "'puter's aint fast enough yet" argument. I've heard rumors that a flaw in the physics engine allowed you to use the same unrealistic setup at every track and smash the track records. I don't know if there is any truth to that though. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

To paraphrase David Spade, I liked it better the first time I saw it -J.D. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Ok, the point is this...people keep complaining that N3 and now NASCAR Legends aren't based on the GPL engine. We have KNOWN this for a long time, and I don't see why some keep moaning about it. *This* release will not be based on GPL - if that is a make-or-break issue for an individual, that is what I'm saying is for them to move on and skip N3 and NASCAR Legends. ***ing about it is not going to make the GPL code magically pop into them. Did I say I never want to see a GPL-engine NASCAR sim? Not at all. I fully understand a lot of the reasoning behind it not happening NOW, so I deal with it. I'll purchase or not purchase these sims based on their own merit, and hope to see more GPL-engine sims in the future. Those who HAVE to have the GPL engine in a sim to play it can still play GPL, so it's not like they've lost anything. -- Ken's Sig 3.0 "Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi Go #43 and #44! volksy (at) geocities (dot) com volksy (at) yahoo (dot) com >Move on to what, exactly? >If the core physics of GPL was a "once only" event and will not be further >utilised, what, exactly, will Papyrus be "moving on" to? To improve on N2 >then the basis for the physics improvement has to be something similar to >that used in GPL. It doesn't make sense NOT to utilise that which has >already been created and which is acknowledged as the leading physics engine >of any racing sim available to date. >Any new simulation produced by Papyrus that doesn't give us the same type of >physics available in GPL (whether the GPL "engine" is used or not) is a step >backwards....NOT an advancement.

But that statement doesn't make any sense, Why should they make NASCAR 3, since someone is already trying to make a NASCAR type game out of GPL. I lot better too. If people keep on complaining about Papy releasing games or add-ons that have already been released on the net, why get the truck patch? They already had one on the net, then Papy made a MUCH BETTER one and everyone stoped talking about it. If you don't want to get it, don't get it, it will be your loss, but don't say that it is THE SAME THING, because it keep the restrictor plate on at Tally like someone did, even after the load of testing that they did(that brought my respect of The US Pits down a lot.) -Stuart Becktell

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> > www.papy.com has a new screenshot of NASCAR LEGENDS > > It really looks great. What do y'all think of it? > To paraphrase David Spade, I liked it better the first time I saw it > -J.D. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

better then Well it certainly *ought* to be better. After all, *they* are doing it Papy channel some resources into exploring other genres (i.e. WoO) than just milking the NASCAR cash cow. Besides, we're eight months beyond the NASCAR 50th Anniversary propoganda blitz. ;) -J.D. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

>*This* release will not be based on GPL - if that is a make-or-break issue >for an individual, that is what I'm saying is for them to move on and skip >N3 and NASCAR Legends. ***ing about it is not going to make the GPL code >magically pop into them. I agree. But I think what has people so upset is there is no other sim even close to GPL realism/quality on the horizon. So, for GPL fans it will be at least another year before they get a new game, maybe two years. I agree that whining about it can't help, but I understand the frustration. Joe McGinn ========================================== Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network [link lost in import: /***.com/] ==========================================

I second that. Jan. ------

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><snip> >I agree. But I think what has people so upset is there is no other sim >even close to GPL realism/quality on the horizon. So, for GPL fans it >will be at least another year before they get a new game, maybe two >years. I agree that whining about it can't help, but I understand the >frustration. >Joe McGinn >========================================== >Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network >[link lost in import: /***.com/] >==========================================

>>*This* release will not be based on GPL - if that is a make-or-break issue >>for an individual, that is what I'm saying is for them to move on and skip >>N3 and NASCAR Legends. ***ing about it is not going to make the GPL code

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>>magically pop into them. >I agree. But I think what has people so upset is there is no other sim >even close to GPL realism/quality on the horizon. So, for GPL fans it >will be at least another year before they get a new game, maybe two >years. I agree that whining about it can't help, but I understand the >frustration.

I agree, sort of ... to me GPL is all I need at the moment. I really don't care how long it'll take for Papy to come up with a new sim based on GPL engine. I've played GPL for almost a year now, and I can see myself playing it for another year of two. Even so that I can't get myself e***d over GP3, N3, <insert you favorite upcoming title> ... GPL is enough at the moment ... I can wait ... :) Hena

....and I'll certainly support that statement. From a personal viewpoint, there is no simulation that I can now contemplate buying unless it offers the same level of physics capability as GPL. Simply because GPL has set the benchmark, in my eyes anyway. Anything less is second-rate.

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> I second that. > Jan. > ------ > ><snip> > >I agree. But I think what has people so upset is there is no other sim > >even close to GPL realism/quality on the horizon. So, for GPL fans it > >will be at least another year before they get a new game, maybe two > >years. I agree that whining about it can't help, but I understand the > >frustration. > >Joe McGinn > >========================================== > >Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network > >[link lost in import: /***.com/] > >==========================================

-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World! ------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----

Especially if somebody releases the "maybe-already-done" N2/Icr2 tracks for GPL ;-) -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."