NR2000......? great, fantastic, what about N3?

I just saw in PC Gamer a mention of NASCAR Racing 2000 -- it said something about new graphics and physics models so I have a couple questions....: Is this the long awaited NASCAR 3 that is supposed to use the same engine as GPL or is it yet another update to NASCAR 2....? If it is still N2, I have more questions, first and foremost is why? - is N3 still in the works, and if it is, why would anyone need another version of N2? Has it been delayed further...... is NR2000 the one..... where is it..... I'm havin' caniptions..... <G>

Yes its based on the GPL physics... >I just saw in PC Gamer a mention of NASCAR Racing 2000 -- it said something >about new graphics and physics models so I have a couple questions....: >Is this the long awaited NASCAR 3 that is supposed to use the same engine as GPL >or is it yet another update to NASCAR 2....? If it is still N2, I have more >questions, first and foremost is why? - is N3 still in the works, and if it is, >why would anyone need another version of N2? Has it been delayed further...... >is NR2000 the one..... where is it..... I'm havin' caniptions..... <G>

Dont bet the farm on it Scott PA-Scott G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com > Yes its based on the GPL physics... -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

Yuppers! Mms...are they taking after Microsoft?! ;) Win2000 consumer version is now another Win9X upgrade! ;)

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> Dont bet the farm on it > Scott > PA-Scott > G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com > > Yes its based on the GPL physics... > -- > Scott B. Husted > ICQ# 4395450

Why then, would Papy release an AVI with NASCAR 3 as the title? NR2000 may be all that NR1999 is with all the BGN tracks and trucks, etc with a new name, but based on the old physics engine. I can't imagine why Papyrus would spend time on this when they could be putting those resources toward N3. I believe N3 will only have the Winston Cup cars and manufacturers. From what I've read the release date for N3 is still September 15. It would be nice if someone from Papyrus would give us an update as to the status of development of N3. I know David Kaemmer reads this group periodically, and I believe Eric Busch works for Papy. How about an update guys? Better yet, how about a playable demo?! --David Cook

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> Yes its based on the GPL physics... > >I just saw in PC Gamer a mention of NASCAR Racing 2000 -- it said something > >about new graphics and physics models so I have a couple questions....: > >Is this the long awaited NASCAR 3 that is supposed to use the same engine > as GPL > >or is it yet another update to NASCAR 2....? If it is still N2, I have > more > >questions, first and foremost is why? - is N3 still in the works, and if it > is, > >why would anyone need another version of N2? Has it been delayed > further...... > >is NR2000 the one..... where is it..... I'm havin' caniptions..... > <G>

> Mms...are they taking after Microsoft?! ;) God help us!! ROFL ;) Im not going to add to the rumor mill too much here <G>. However, I will put forth a little info from my reliable "sources" inside the sim racing industry: N2000 is NOT N3. Also... I would not be doing all your Christmas wish lists with N3 listed. I think you have a better chance of seeing Santa Clause than seeing N3 by Christmas 99. If you are looking for a new great sim in 1999, you better hope that Trans-Am Racing meets our expectations. Im keeping my fingers crossed because it looks pretty awesome. Please, Please have a strong multiplayer capability in TA!! Id also love to see a CART or F1 multiplayer sim in the near future. I havent heard much. The last rumor I heard was Papy was going to try and do CART Racing III before its licensing agreement expires. However, with N3 being put in perpetual suspension mode so they can milk the N2 physics engine to death (I dont care if they do add dynamic skid marks, damge, more suspension settings, etc... its going to be tough to make it a top level sim)... who knows where CART III stands. Sim Racing.... software companies have tighter controls on information that the US nuclear research centers ;) Scott PA-Scott G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

As we speak I read this. ROFL Microsoft doesnt even know what the heck they are going to do <VBG> http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9905/06/morewin.idg/ Scott PA-Scott -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

Why should we doubt that N3 will be released in the Fall as Papyrus have stated? Heck, they were racing it at Daytona in February! I listened to an interview of David Kaemmer recently, and he said he was working on the forthcoming NASCAR game with the GPL engine (which, BTW he said would be "unbelievable"). It does not make sense that they would back up N3 in favor of another remake of N2. Just my 2 cents... --David Cook > Also... I would not be doing all your Christmas wish lists with N3 listed. I > think you have a better chance of seeing Santa Clause than seeing N3 by > Christmas 99.

> Why should we doubt that N3 will be released in the Fall as Papyrus have stated? Umm... Papy also said it would be released by Christmas 98, Then April 99, then... See my point? =) They put a video in the BGN expansion pack too... but that didnt guarantee release "Coming Christmas 98". I believe it will be unbelievable... when its released. However, there is also alot of concern over it being "too hard to drive" which has been claimed to limit GPLs appeal for a mass market. I personally think its ridiculous since GPL is based on cars without aero, etc. NASCAR cars with the GPL physics will be more difficult than N2, but not so much where it should hinder the sales of N3. IMHO of course. It does if the development costs are not that expensive and they can sell copies of the software to everyone who runs on TEN, NASCAR junkies in general, and N2 upgrades. High revenue and low development cost = profits Heck, I couldnt believe people purchased N99 !!! Purchasing Craftsman Trucks seperately would have been one thing..... but N99 is nothing more than cars with no make <G> and some updated tracks (missing Pocono even!). Although the tracks are cool.... without being able to use them online or on TEN, who cares <G> Notice how Papy then offered the Craftsman expansion pack seperately AFTER N99 had been out for some time?? Its all about marketing and $$$$s. Not what makes sense to you and me. Believe me... I hope Im 100% wrong and N3 is released tomorrow <VBG> Scott PA-Scott G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

But on another side, there is another group (lead by David Matson) at Papyrus working on "another" title, who is not CART 3, in the interview they had on AGN. It is Nascar 2000, or whatever the name they will put on that title, using the old Papyrus game engine. So why should we doubt ? A title takes a long road to develop. Even if it was running at Daytona in February, as you see it's not the total work power of Papyrus who is working on the project. So that slows it down. They also said they would be doing a full graphic engine change after the Daytona meeting I think. So that takes even more time. They had only a few tracks in the preview, so depending if they have done them or not, you need to do the track modeling, graphic artist in 2d/3d. There's also the sound, AI, debugging, yadda yadda yadda... And there is always the pressions of Sierra Sports, who are there only for the $$$$, and don't really care if the engine is new or old. For them they are happy to just slap another Nascar title on the market, since it brings the big bucks. NR99 was quite a good hit, so they are still twisting the old game engine for every penny they can get. Im just starting to have doubts, especially since Papyrus thinks that Nascar 3 is National security, and that information leaked would mean the destruction of the planet Earth <grin>. No wonder people starts to speculate and spread rumors like this. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Your points are all well taken. FYI - TEN is still running on N2 and NR1999 is not supported. I'll bet NR2000 won't be either. It will be interesting to see how TEN does when N3 eventually makes it out. You know, I started racing N2, then moved into GPL. I have to say I have a lot more fun racing on VROC with GPL on road courses than I do on TEN on ovals. Not sure if it's the physics, or the challenge of the road course versus the oval... Not to slam the good guys on TEN, but there are more than a few immature and careless wreckers on TEN, and very few (I've only heard of one) on VROC. It's much more enjoyable to get my ass beat by super fast drivers on VROC than it is to get wrecked by a jerk who drops back then floors it on a restart on TEN. Sorry if I veered off topic a little there <g>. --David Cook > > It does not make sense that they would back up N3 in favor of another remake of > > N2. Just my 2 cents... > It does if the development costs are not that expensive and they can sell copies of > the software to everyone who runs on TEN, NASCAR junkies in general, and N2 > upgrades. High revenue and low development cost = profits

Thats not new Scott. ;) Thats at least a month or two old news. ;)

Yup! Screw N3, give me CART3! ;)

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> > Why should we doubt that N3 will be released in the Fall as Papyrus have > stated? > > Heck, they were racing it at Daytona in February! I listened to an > interview of > > David Kaemmer recently, and he said he was working on the forthcoming > NASCAR game > > with the GPL engine (which, BTW he said would be "unbelievable"). > But on another side, there is another group (lead by David Matson) at > Papyrus working on "another" title, who is not CART 3, in the interview

they > had on AGN. It is Nascar 2000, or whatever the name they will put on that > title, using the old Papyrus game engine. > So why should we doubt ? A title takes a long road to develop. Even if it > was running at Daytona in February, as you see it's not the total work power > of Papyrus who is working on the project. So that slows it down. They also > said they would be doing a full graphic engine change after the Daytona > meeting I think. So that takes even more time. They had only a few tracks > in the preview, so depending if they have done them or not, you need to do > the track modeling, graphic artist in 2d/3d. There's also the sound, AI, > debugging, yadda yadda yadda... > And there is always the pressions of Sierra Sports, who are there only for > the $$$$, and don't really care if the engine is new or old. For them they > are happy to just slap another Nascar title on the market, since it brings > the big bucks. NR99 was quite a good hit, so they are still twisting the > old game engine for every penny they can get. > Im just starting to have doubts, especially since Papyrus thinks that Nascar

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> 3 is National security, and that information leaked would mean the > destruction of the planet Earth <grin>. No wonder people starts to > speculate and spread rumors like this. > -- > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> > -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ > -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ > -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. > -- May the Downforce be with you... > "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise > how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

N3 is Nascar2000, it's just that Sierra wants people to know that it is a continuation of the nascar 1999 series, since N2 is so old, it may not sell as well as a follow up to Nascar1999. The Grafics in the PCGamer look just like Nascar 3 screen shots, and why would they make a new physics engine for N2000, waiting for 3? and believe it or not the Sierra people plan to release Nascar 3 in September ready or not (unless papay says no) so why would they also be planning a 2000 to be relased at the same time? >Yes its based on the GPL physics... >>I just saw in PC Gamer a mention of NASCAR Racing 2000 -- it said something

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>>about new graphics and physics models so I have a couple questions....: >>Is this the long awaited NASCAR 3 that is supposed to use the same engine >as GPL >>or is it yet another update to NASCAR 2....? If it is still N2, I have >more >>questions, first and foremost is why? - is N3 still in the works, and if

it >is, >>why would anyone need another version of N2? Has it been delayed >further...... >>is NR2000 the one..... where is it..... I'm havin' caniptions..... ><G>

> Yup! >***N3, give me CART3! ;) Now your talking ! I second that , bring on Cart3 ! :)

Chris just gets confused racing in ovals. All those left turns and he cant figure out where he started from ;) He is still waiting for Papy to implement track maps for N2 ROFL Thats what happens when you work with Microsoft products too much <VBG> Scott PA-Scott G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott on TEN [link lost in import: /~sbhusted] ICQ# 4395450

> Your points are all well taken. FYI - TEN is still running on N2 and NR1999 is not > supported. I am still on TEN. I administer the SCORL GTS Division and also race in OSCAR, and HSTS. TEN is still fun, but only if you run in leagues. If you try and run "pick-up" races all you are ever going to find is Talladega races with 14 year olds with attention spans of a fly =) I wont comment on the official NROS until TEN/Papy release more info. I raced in the trial series and it was a disaster due to warping and BBNPlanet problems. I knew N99 would not be supported by TEN and thats why I didnt buy it until I got a very, very favorable bargain on it ;) Even so... I bet it has run no more than 2 hours total on my PC. When I upgrade to W98 I probably wont even reinstall it. If you cant run it in multiplayer... then its not worth the time to look at the box. Well, my initial "information" says that NR2000 will be supported by TEN. Its also been reported on the TEN newsgroup that TEN was working on prelimaries for N3 on TEN... but I havent heard anything since the info about N2000 hit the street. I would imagine that it will require much less work for them to implement N2000 than N3. I love all racing except the IRL (Ignorant Racing League). Although Im a huge NASCAR fan, I also love open wheel racing, Trans-Am, Touring cars, etc. My personal racing experience is in SCCA racing. Spec Racers, Sports 2000, and very limited GT-1 racing. Im a big fan of the CAN-AM series. (Historical series - not so much the current although the current is fun to watch as well). No open wheel racing experience though. Well, I ran a few laps in a NASCAR Modified if that counts <G> Even when I was much more fit, you would have needed 6 tons of Crisco and a giant shoe horn to get me into an open wheel car. ROFL No doubt. There are also alot of fantastic drivers. I race VROC from time to time too ;) Not as much as I wanted to due to work, wife, and Im working on my MBA. Now that class is over until fall.... I hope to work in some more time for GPL. Gurney Eagle all the way <VBG> Scott PA-Scott G.T.S. Racing - http://www.GTS-Racing.com -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott on TEN http://home.earthlink.net/~sbhusted ICQ# 4395450

hehe, that's the fun part. Even the big boys do that in WC or something along those lines. Racer X Veteran Sim Racer Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

ROFL And then some <VBG> Scott PA-Scott

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> >> Heck, they were racing it at Daytona in February! > >They put a video in the BGN expansion pack too... but that didnt guarantee > >release "Coming Christmas 98". > Really, how do you like "Reno Air Racers"? Is it everything you thought it > would be? > Don McCorkle > Libertarian Motorsports

-- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott on TEN http://home.earthlink.net/~sbhusted ICQ# 4395450

>N2000 is NOT N3. ok, thanx.... that's what i wanted to know cause i'm still expecting the last stock car sim i will need when N3 comes out.. i don't know about everyone else, but i don't have ANY problem waiting for NASCAR 3 - i would much rather they release when and only when it is DONE....... don't cut out the features we've heard about to meet some damn deadline.... release date is when it's ready - N2 and NR99 had a very rushed out the door quality and i just don't want to see it happen to N3 - i don't care if it takes another year or two (Sierra, you paying attention? take yer time and make it as good as everyone thinks it's gonna be......) i'd rather wait for the complete package than to be able to run out and get half of it tomorrow......

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> Your points are all well taken. FYI - TEN is still running on N2 and NR1999 is not > supported. I'll bet NR2000 won't be either. It will be interesting to see how TEN does > when N3 eventually makes it out. > You know, I started racing N2, then moved into GPL. I have to say I have a lot more fun > racing on VROC with GPL on road courses than I do on TEN on ovals. Not sure if it's the > physics, or the challenge of the road course versus the oval... > Not to slam the good guys on TEN, but there are more than a few immature and careless > wreckers on TEN, and very few (I've only heard of one) on VROC.

TEN? Who cares! I cancelled my account a month ago because I was tired of paying 20$ US per month for a connection that sucked so bad. Don't tell me it's because I have a bad modem. I have a cable modem. I'm impressed with online games like Starsiege where you can play for free and connection is good always. I'm never paying for an online *** service again. Hope Alison (or others) think of making a program simular to VROC once Nascar 3 comes out... Philster

Really, how do you like "Reno Air Racers"? Is it everything you thought it would be? Don McCorkle Libertarian Motorsports

I fully agree with you. It can take whatever time they need for making it excellent, but at least don't***with our heads by saying temptative release dates, and putting us in the dark with no official stuff except a crappy 30second video and 50pictures, plus 2-3 Press Releases since 2years. I wouldn't mind if they said to us WHAT is going on at Papyrus, but they choose not to, at the opposite of almost all of the current *** development companies, with beta previews, tons of information, .plan files almost daily, etc... Hopefully the lack of information is just due to the E3 exposition very soon, where they will reveal their plans about N3, N2000 or whatever title they are doing. Because there is "another" one than N3, and it should normally be a stock-car title (I think that David Matson only did Stock-car titles since he's with Papyrus). N2000 or Nascar Legends, who knows except them, but it's IMHO not the way to make the customer happy. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Chris, Maybe... but what they release to the press is different every day <G> Scott PA-Scott -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450

Okay since we are playing the rumor mill game.... Rumor has it that the powers that be that control Papyrus are dictating that they "dumb down" NASCAR3.... Knowing the religious zeal that the Papyrus Design Group has to "smartening up" their simulations.... PDG says, "Okay, let's make the 'powers-that-be' happy. We will dress-up NASCAR2/99 to look like NASCAR3, dumb it down a little. But, we will continue to work on a smartened up NASCAR3 and release them both. If need be, we are willing to allow NASCAR2000 to pay for the development and release of the true Papyrus simulation, NASCAR3." -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

> Yup! >***N3, give me CART3! ;) We don't agree on MGPR, but here we do! ;^) Well, of course, I'd buy N3 as well, when it's released. l8er ronny -- How to get rid of censorship in German game releases <http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm |\ _,,,---,,_ I want to die like my Grandfather, ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ in his sleep. |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Not like the people in his car, '---''(_/--' `-'\_) screaming their heads off!

Good point Michael. I think that the reason we don't have any feedback from "what is happening" there is E3. Maybe Sierra Sports will reveal the line of racing titles there. Maybe Havas is still reconfiguring some divisions and are not ready yet. I like that marketing scheme you wrote, I think it's the best way to go. I wouldn't mind another title using the old game engine if they make it correctly. It all depends if Sierra Sports wants NR2000 on the NROS, if I buy it or not. NR99 has a quite big list of bugs, I think it's the main problem of patching and patching over old code, adding feature after feature. Hopefully it won't hog too much. A Ferrari chassis with a Beetle engine is worth nothing, remember :) I'll rather see a title using the old code than a "dumbed down" Nascar Racing 3. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank> -- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/ -- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/ -- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s. -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

> I would imagine they will have both... But I like what I get for my > 13.00 per month BTW. For ME --- VROC doesnt hold a candle to what I get > on TEN. Hehehhe, I guess people that keep getting passed say this ALL the time heheheheheh. Trips

I just cancelled my TEN account yesterday! I haven't fired up N2 since I updated my computer hardware to keep up with the processor demands of GPL. I have tried to run VROC but I have yet to enter a GPL race where I haven't warped sooooo bad to be a hazard to others. Even so, offline racing against the GPL AI is much more enjoyable to me versus N2 racing on TEN! A Nascar version based on the GPL physics model and multiplayer mode where we wouldn't have to pay a service like TEN (like we have with VROC/SpyBoy) is what I'm hoping for! Ron SNIP

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> You know, I started racing N2, then moved into GPL. I have to say I have a lot more fun > racing on VROC with GPL on road courses than I do on TEN on ovals. Not sure if it's the > physics, or the challenge of the road course versus the oval... > Not to slam the good guys on TEN, but there are more than a few immature and careless > wreckers on TEN, and very few (I've only heard of one) on VROC. It's much more enjoyable > to get my ass beat by super fast drivers on VROC than it is to get wrecked by a jerk who > drops back then floors it on a restart on TEN. > Sorry if I veered off topic a little there <g>. > --David Cook

SNIP

It will be out but sometime next year, a longgg wait for sure. Hopefully N2000 will hold us over. JM

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> I just cancelled my TEN account yesterday! I haven't fired up N2 since I > updated > my computer hardware to keep up with the processor demands of GPL. I have tried > to > run VROC but I have yet to enter a GPL race where I haven't warped sooooo bad to > be a hazard to others. Even so, offline racing against the GPL AI is much more > enjoyable > to me versus N2 racing on TEN! > A Nascar version based on the GPL physics model and multiplayer mode where we > wouldn't have > to pay a service like TEN (like we have with VROC/SpyBoy) is what I'm hoping > for! > Ron > SNIP > > You know, I started racing N2, then moved into GPL. I have to say I have a lot more fun > > racing on VROC with GPL on road courses than I do on TEN on ovals. Not sure if it's the > > physics, or the challenge of the road course versus the oval... > > Not to slam the good guys on TEN, but there are more than a few immature and careless > > wreckers on TEN, and very few (I've only heard of one) on VROC. It's much more enjoyable > > to get my ass beat by super fast drivers on VROC than it is to get wrecked by a jerk who > > drops back then floors it on a restart on TEN. > > Sorry if I veered off topic a little there <g>. > > --David Cook > SNIP