Re: Papy Acceleration Pack -- thanks to its loyal customers?

Well Marc, I guess you just have to chalk it up to marketing. Selling gaming software is a lot like selling music cds, once your core market has purchased their copies, sales tend to flatten out. Now in the case of music, you can release another single and hope sales pick up again, but, in the case of computer software, you can repackage it or give up and start working on the sequel. Most of us bought our copies when they were released and will probably do it again, but if Sierra can make a little more money off the title and use it to finance future Papy projects (N4, GPL2 or a CART title...please!), then I have no problem with it, which is not to say I will buy it<g>. -- don "Getting hit by a meteorite is an accident... everything else is driver-error." "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VR8B4.49133$[email hidden]... > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked here > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere). > > From the Papy.com website: > > The NASCAR� Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR Racing� 3, > NASCAR� Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR� Racing 3 Craftsman Truck > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price. > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this format? > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the patches > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations and > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount titles? > Something doesn't make sense here? > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have to > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff, fine, but > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already? > > Marc. > > -- > **************************************************************************** > Marc Collins > [email hidden] > > Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and > blame them on other computers. > **************************************************************************** > > >

I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked here at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere). From the Papy.com website: The NASCAR� Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR Racing� 3, NASCAR� Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR� Racing 3 Craftsman Truck Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price. Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this format? Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the patches aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations and great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount titles? Something doesn't make sense here? I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have to pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff, fine, but as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already? Marc. -- **************************************************************************** Marc Collins [email hidden] Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and blame them on other computers. ****************************************************************************

Papy were criticised for milking Indycar - remember (older RAS members!) the initial 8 tracks were included in the original. Then 8 more in an expansion pack. Then Indianapolis & the paint kit. Pehaps if GPL had followed this trend - new cars & track packs - each with updated features such as FF, D3D support, a Vroc type client - then I think a lot of this group would have been happy. "don hodgdon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8b38th$8t3$[email hidden]... > Well Marc, I guess you just have to chalk it up to marketing. Sellinggaming > software is a lot like selling music cds, once your core market has > purchased their copies, sales tend to flatten out. Now in the case ofmusic, > you can release another single and hope sales pick up again, but, in the > case of computer software, you can repackage it or give up and startworking > on the sequel. Most of us bought our copies when they were released andwill > probably do it again, but if Sierra can make a little more money off the > title and use it to finance future Papy projects (N4, GPL2 or a CART > title...please!), then I have no problem with it, which is not to say Iwill > buy it<g>.

"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in thisformat? > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and thepatches > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations and > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount titles? > Something doesn't make sense here? Why so? I do hope I never go in business with you. It's called demand and offer. Every company in the world does that. When the curve for the demand starts to slow down, they try to catch the most of it by lowering the offer, thus the price of it or adding extra features. I mean, haven't people learned a little with all the years? ;) Papyrus has done that for a good portion of their titles. Expansion pack, creating 1 package for several of their titles (Nascar 50th Anniversary Edition). -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

I didn't mean to say that I would purchase the "same" product again, I just meant that I'd probably buy the "next" product from Papy as soon as it's released...except for the trucks, I have no interest there<g>. And I'm afraid you are right about a GPL2 or CART2...but I can always hope. -- don "Getting hit by a meteorite is an accident... everything else is driver-error." "Joel Willstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8b5edn$nfu$[email hidden]... > > don hodgdon <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8b38th$8t3$[email hidden]... > > Well Marc, I guess you just have to chalk it up to marketing. Selling > gaming > > software is a lot like selling music cds, once your core market has > > purchased their copies, sales tend to flatten out. Now in the case of > music, > > you can release another single and hope sales pick up again, but, in the > > case of computer software, you can repackage it or give up and start > working > > on the sequel. Most of us bought our copies when they were released and > will > > probably do it again, but if Sierra can make a little more money off the > > title and use it to finance future Papy projects (N4, GPL2 or a CART > > title...please!), then I have no problem with it, which is not to say I > will > > buy it<g>. > > > > -- > > don > > Why would you want to purchase the same exact sim a 2nd time, > especially when it doesn't even enclude any patches ? As for supporting new > sims, we already did what when we purchased nascar3. > > You can forget ever seeing GPL2, nor is Cart2 likely to see the light > of day till the Nascar frenzy settles down. > > Joel_W >

I've still got my set...all on 3.5" floppy. Looking at the "recommended specs" makes me smile....how we all thought a 486DX was just the ultimate (which it was, I suppose!!) -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Tony Rickard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tzaB4.310$[email hidden]... > Papy were criticised for milking Indycar - remember (older RAS members!) the > initial 8 tracks > were included in the original. Then 8 more in an expansion pack. Then > Indianapolis & the paint kit. > > Pehaps if GPL had followed this trend - new cars & track packs - each > with updated features such as FF, D3D support, a Vroc type client - then I > think a lot of this group would have been happy

Joel Willstein wrote:

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> > > I for one am not happy with this sales philosophy at all !! I was more > than willing to purchase the Truck expansion pack for $25-30. But I'm not > going to buy this package for what must be $50 or more. > > I already own Nascar3, don't plan on purchasing Nascar Legends, but I > wanted the trucks. So I guess I'll just pass on this whole deal. Another > dumb ass merchandising plan by Sierra. > > Joel Willstein > [email hidden]

The CTS package will also be available separately. They haven't said anything about the price range though.

Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VR8B4.49133$[email hidden]...

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> I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked here > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere). > > From the Papy.com website: > > The NASCAR� Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR Racing� 3, > NASCAR� Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR� Racing 3 Craftsman Truck > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price. > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this

format? > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and thepatches > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations and > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount titles? > Something doesn't make sense here? > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have to > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff, fine,but > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already? > > Marc. I for one am not happy with this sales philosophy at all !! I was more than willing to purchase the Truck expansion pack for $25-30. But I'm not going to buy this package for what must be $50 or more. I already own Nascar3, don't plan on purchasing Nascar Legends, but I wanted the trucks. So I guess I'll just pass on this whole deal. Another dumb ass merchandising plan by Sierra. Joel Willstein [email hidden]

don hodgdon <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8b38th$8t3$[email hidden]... > Well Marc, I guess you just have to chalk it up to marketing. Sellinggaming > software is a lot like selling music cds, once your core market has > purchased their copies, sales tend to flatten out. Now in the case ofmusic, > you can release another single and hope sales pick up again, but, in the > case of computer software, you can repackage it or give up and startworking > on the sequel. Most of us bought our copies when they were released andwill > probably do it again, but if Sierra can make a little more money off the > title and use it to finance future Papy projects (N4, GPL2 or a CART > title...please!), then I have no problem with it, which is not to say Iwill > buy it<g>. > > -- > don Why would you want to purchase the same exact sim a 2nd time, especially when it doesn't even enclude any patches ? As for supporting new sims, we already did what when we purchased nascar3. You can forget ever seeing GPL2, nor is Cart2 likely to see the light of day till the Nascar frenzy settles down. Joel_W

Nothing is different here than any other title. The games will always be at full price when they are first released and then the prices will come down. I remember buying Diablo for $50 and then only one week later after it came out, there were specials for $30. They now have 3 products under the current system (N3, NL and the CTS) and I think it is great that they are offering all three for a group price. When you say "I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have to pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter". What are they supposed to do? Raise the price? Or are they supposed to sell the Acceleration Pack for $120? I have had the joy of playing N3 for the last however many months since it came out. If they would have said "you can pay $50 now, or wait 7 months and pay $20", I would not have done in. I still would have given them my $50 Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VR8B4.49133$[email hidden]...

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> I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked here > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere). > > From the Papy.com website: > > The NASCAR� Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR Racing� 3, > NASCAR� Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR� Racing 3 Craftsman Truck > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price. > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this

format? > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and thepatches > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations and > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount titles? > Something doesn't make sense here? > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have to > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff, fine,but > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already? > > Marc. > > -- >**************************************************************************** > Marc Collins > [email hidden] > > Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and > blame them on other computers. >**************************************************************************** > > >

I agree generally with your point...but when the patches haven't even been released yet, it certainly makes me pause to think. It may be inevitable given the publishing/remaindering practices that are common, but it is still not a good way to treat your best customers. And until N4 is out, N3 and NL are still the current products. As an example, I am thrilled that GPL has been "re-released" in the bargain bin. I would not have been thrilled had it happened just a few months after its release. Marc. "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:AXgB4.332$[email hidden]... > Nothing is different here than any other title. > > The games will always be at full price when they are first released andthen > the prices will come down. I remember buying Diablo for $50 and then only > one week later after it came out, there were specials for $30. > > They now have 3 products under the current system (N3, NL and the CTS) andI > think it is great that they are offering all three for a group price. > > When you say "I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers tohave > to pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter". What are they > supposed to do? Raise the price? Or are they supposed to sell the > Acceleration Pack for $120? I have had the joy of playing N3 for the last > however many months since it came out. If they would have said "you canpay

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> $50 now, or wait 7 months and pay $20", I would not have done in. I still > would have given them my $50 > > > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:VR8B4.49133$[email hidden]... > > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez > > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked

here > > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere). > > > > From the Papy.com website: > > > > The NASCAR� Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR Racing�3, > > NASCAR� Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR� Racing 3 CraftsmanTruck

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> > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price. > > > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this > format? > > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the > patches > > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations and > > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount

titles? > > Something doesn't make sense here? > > > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to haveto

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> > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff, fine, > but > > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already? > > > > Marc. > > > > -- > > >

****************************************************************************

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> > Marc Collins > > [email hidden] > > > > Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and > > blame them on other computers. > > >

**************************************************************************** > > > > > > > >

I imagine you can look for the final patch to be released with the CTS addon and the Acceleration pack. I think that is the only thing holding it up. At least.. I hope :) Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dnhB4.50258$[email hidden]... > I agree generally with your point...but when the patches haven't even been > released yet, it certainly makes me pause to think. It may be inevitable > given the publishing/remaindering practices that are common, but it isstill > not a good way to treat your best customers. And until N4 is out, N3 andNL

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> are still the current products. As an example, I am thrilled that GPL has > been "re-released" in the bargain bin. I would not have been thrilled had > it happened just a few months after its release. > > Marc. > > "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:AXgB4.332$[email hidden]... > > Nothing is different here than any other title. > > > > The games will always be at full price when they are first released and > then > > the prices will come down. I remember buying Diablo for $50 and then

only > > one week later after it came out, there were specials for $30. > > > > They now have 3 products under the current system (N3, NL and the CTS)and

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> I > > think it is great that they are offering all three for a group price. > > > > When you say "I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to > have > > to pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter". What are they > > supposed to do? Raise the price? Or are they supposed to sell the > > Acceleration Pack for $120? I have had the joy of playing N3 for the

last > > however many months since it came out. If they would have said "you can > pay > > $50 now, or wait 7 months and pay $20", I would not have done in. Istill

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> > would have given them my $50 > > > > > > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:VR8B4.49133$[email hidden]... > > > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez > > > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked > here > > > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere). > > > > > > From the Papy.com website: > > > > > > The NASCAR� Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR

Racing�

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> 3, > > > NASCAR� Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR� Racing 3 Craftsman > Truck > > > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price. > > > > > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this > > format? > > > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the > > patches > > > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations

and

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> > > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount > titles? > > > Something doesn't make sense here? > > > > > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have > to > > > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff,

fine,

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> > but > > > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already? > > > > > > Marc. > > > > > > -- > > > > > >

****************************************************************************

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> > > Marc Collins > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and > > > blame them on other computers. > > > > > >

****************************************************************************

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

I believe you can buy the trucks separately...but for those people who buy N3, NL and trucks, they are spending more than double the amount the new pack costs. That was my point. Who are your best customers...the ones who anticipate your work and buy it right away or the late comers who will only purchase a bargain-bin compilation pack? For old stuff, that is the expected pattern. For current product, I don't expect that. Marc. "Joel Willstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8b5dot$pa7$[email hidden]... > > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:VR8B4.49133$[email hidden]... > > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez > > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlookedhere > > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere). > > > > From the Papy.com website: > > > > The NASCAR� Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR Racing�3, > > NASCAR� Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR� Racing 3 CraftsmanTruck

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> > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price. > > > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this > format? > > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the > patches > > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations and > > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount

titles? > > Something doesn't make sense here? > > > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to haveto

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> > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff, fine, > but > > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already? > > > > Marc. > > I for one am not happy with this sales philosophy at all !! I was

more

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> than willing to purchase the Truck expansion pack for $25-30. But I'm not > going to buy this package for what must be $50 or more. > > I already own Nascar3, don't plan on purchasing Nascar Legends, but I > wanted the trucks. So I guess I'll just pass on this whole deal. Another > dumb ass merchandising plan by Sierra. > > Joel Willstein > [email hidden] >

Again, what do you want them to do then? Refund everyone that already bought the product some money? You are saying that you do not like this, but you are not even saying there are any other possible solutions. The only thing they could do is to put a $120 cost on the new package if you want them to go by your philosophy. Are you saying they should not put out a Compilation pack at all? Why not? If it helps to bring more people into the sim-racing community, I am all for it. Heck, I would not care if they gave N3 away even though I paid my $50 for it. Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GVrB4.89108$[email hidden]... > I believe you can buy the trucks separately...but for those people who buy > N3, NL and trucks, they are spending more than double the amount the new > pack costs. That was my point. Who are your best customers...the oneswho > anticipate your work and buy it right away or the late comers who willonly

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> purchase a bargain-bin compilation pack? For old stuff, that is the > expected pattern. For current product, I don't expect that. > > Marc. > > > > "Joel Willstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8b5dot$pa7$[email hidden]... > > > > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:VR8B4.49133$[email hidden]... > > > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez > > > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked > here > > > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere). > > > > > > From the Papy.com website: > > > > > > The NASCAR� Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR

Racing�

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> 3, > > > NASCAR� Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR� Racing 3 Craftsman > Truck > > > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price. > > > > > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this > > format? > > > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the > > patches > > > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations

and

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> > > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount > titles? > > > Something doesn't make sense here? > > > > > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have > to > > > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff,

fine,

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> > but > > > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already? > > > > > > Marc. > > > > I for one am not happy with this sales philosophy at all !! I was > more > > than willing to purchase the Truck expansion pack for $25-30. But I'm

not > > going to buy this package for what must be $50 or more. > > > > I already own Nascar3, don't plan on purchasing Nascar Legends, butI

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> > > wanted the trucks. So I guess I'll just pass on this whole deal. Another > > dumb ass merchandising plan by Sierra. > > > > Joel Willstein > > [email hidden] > > > >

The thing is, the current product is pretty much the old stuff. Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GVrB4.89108$[email hidden]... > I believe you can buy the trucks separately...but for those people who buy > N3, NL and trucks, they are spending more than double the amount the new > pack costs. That was my point. Who are your best customers...the oneswho > anticipate your work and buy it right away or the late comers who willonly

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> purchase a bargain-bin compilation pack? For old stuff, that is the > expected pattern. For current product, I don't expect that. > > Marc. > > > > "Joel Willstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8b5dot$pa7$[email hidden]... > > > > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:VR8B4.49133$[email hidden]... > > > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez > > > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked > here > > > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere). > > > > > > From the Papy.com website: > > > > > > The NASCAR� Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR

Racing�

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> 3, > > > NASCAR� Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR� Racing 3 Craftsman > Truck > > > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price. > > > > > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this > > format? > > > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the > > patches > > > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations

and

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> > > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount > titles? > > > Something doesn't make sense here? > > > > > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have > to > > > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff,

fine,

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> > but > > > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already? > > > > > > Marc. > > > > I for one am not happy with this sales philosophy at all !! I was > more > > than willing to purchase the Truck expansion pack for $25-30. But I'm

not > > going to buy this package for what must be $50 or more. > > > > I already own Nascar3, don't plan on purchasing Nascar Legends, butI

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> > > wanted the trucks. So I guess I'll just pass on this whole deal. Another > > dumb ass merchandising plan by Sierra. > > > > Joel Willstein > > [email hidden] > > > >

Two things: finish patching a product before it gets to the discount bin and if you are going to release incremental updates to a product (N1, N2, NR1999, 50th Anniversary, Busch pack, N3, truck pack, etc.), use an upgrade system like many other software vendors do to allow previous purchasers to buy-in for less. It's an incentive for the existing customers to keep upgrading and it's fair because they don't have to spend MORE than the not-yet customers. Basic marketing and customer relations, I would assume, since it is a very common practise. Of course, many in this group will buy everything regardless, but try watching customers in a store looking at N2, NR1999 and N3 all at the same time and trying to figure out which one they should buy. It's not so easy to sort through all the choices when you don't follow it as closely as we do. How many people will know that N3-->N4 is going to be a huge leap in realism while N2-->N3 is not. If you read the box for N3, you would not assume it was just N2 3dfx with FFB and a physics tweak. "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cLwB4.995$[email hidden]... > Again, what do you want them to do then? > > Refund everyone that already bought the product some money? You aresaying > that you do not like this, but you are not even saying there are any other > possible solutions. The only thing they could do is to put a $120 cost on > the new package if you want them to go by your philosophy. > > Are you saying they should not put out a Compilation pack at all? Whynot? > If it helps to bring more people into the sim-racing community, I am allfor > it. Heck, I would not care if they gave N3 away even though I paid my $50 > for it. > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:GVrB4.89108$[email hidden]... > > I believe you can buy the trucks separately...but for those people whobuy

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> > N3, NL and trucks, they are spending more than double the amount the new > > pack costs. That was my point. Who are your best customers...the ones > who > > anticipate your work and buy it right away or the late comers who will > only > > purchase a bargain-bin compilation pack? For old stuff, that is the > > expected pattern. For current product, I don't expect that. > > > > Marc. > > > > > > > > "Joel Willstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:8b5dot$pa7$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:VR8B4.49133$[email hidden]... > > > > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez > > > > downloading and testing, an important development has been

overlooked

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> > here > > > > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere). > > > > > > > > From the Papy.com website: > > > > > > > > The NASCAR� Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR > Racing� > > 3, > > > > NASCAR� Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR� Racing 3 Craftsman > > Truck > > > > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great

price.

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> > > > > > > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this > > > format? > > > > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the > > > patches > > > > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations > and > > > > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount > > titles? > > > > Something doesn't make sense here? > > > > > > > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to

have

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> > to > > > > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff, > fine, > > > but > > > > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already? > > > > > > > > Marc. > > > > > > I for one am not happy with this sales philosophy at all !! I was > > more > > > than willing to purchase the Truck expansion pack for $25-30. But I'm > not > > > going to buy this package for what must be $50 or more. > > > > > > I already own Nascar3, don't plan on purchasing Nascar Legends,

but > I > > > > > wanted the trucks. So I guess I'll just pass on this whole deal.Another

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> > > dumb ass merchandising plan by Sierra. > > > > > > Joel Willstein > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > >

Unfortunately Mark customer relations is something Sierra/Papyrus knows nothing about. Like I have said in the past I will never pay for another Sierra/Papyrus title again........ Al Stiff "Some people think ymenard is an asshole, I'm one of them" "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OmzB4.89377$[email hidden]... >Basic marketing and customer relations, I would assume,

What software game out there can you buy upgrades?? Last time I checked, everytime you bought the new Links, new Madden or whatever, you had to buy the full game. You can not just go and buy a upgrade to it. The only thing they do is put out Addon packs and that is what CTS is. Papy is not doing anything different than any other company does. I still have a hard time believing that Papy put out N3 (which in my mind was fine out of the box), then decided to HELP the online community by trying to improve that for us, and people complain. Maybe they should have just left it like it was out of the box and said to hell with it. Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OmzB4.89377$[email hidden]... > Two things: finish patching a product before it gets to the discount binand > if you are going to release incremental updates to a product (N1, N2, > NR1999, 50th Anniversary, Busch pack, N3, truck pack, etc.), use anupgrade > system like many other software vendors do to allow previous purchasers to > buy-in for less. It's an incentive for the existing customers to keep > upgrading and it's fair because they don't have to spend MORE than the > not-yet customers. Basic marketing and customer relations, I wouldassume,

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> since it is a very common practise. > > Of course, many in this group will buy everything regardless, but try > watching customers in a store looking at N2, NR1999 and N3 all at the same > time and trying to figure out which one they should buy. It's not so easy > to sort through all the choices when you don't follow it as closely as we > do. How many people will know that N3-->N4 is going to be a huge leap in > realism while N2-->N3 is not. If you read the box for N3, you would not > assume it was just N2 3dfx with FFB and a physics tweak. > > > > > "Cliff Roman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:cLwB4.995$[email hidden]... > > Again, what do you want them to do then? > > > > Refund everyone that already bought the product some money? You are > saying > > that you do not like this, but you are not even saying there are any

other > > possible solutions. The only thing they could do is to put a $120 coston

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> > the new package if you want them to go by your philosophy. > > > > Are you saying they should not put out a Compilation pack at all? Why > not? > > If it helps to bring more people into the sim-racing community, I am all > for > > it. Heck, I would not care if they gave N3 away even though I paid my

$50 > > for it. > > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:GVrB4.89108$[email hidden]... > > > I believe you can buy the trucks separately...but for those people who > buy > > > N3, NL and trucks, they are spending more than double the amount thenew > > > pack costs. That was my point. Who are your best customers...theones

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> > who > > > anticipate your work and buy it right away or the late comers who will > > only > > > purchase a bargain-bin compilation pack? For old stuff, that is the > > > expected pattern. For current product, I don't expect that. > > > > > > Marc. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Joel Willstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:8b5dot$pa7$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > Marc Collins <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:VR8B4.49133$[email hidden]... > > > > > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez > > > > > downloading and testing, an important development has been > overlooked > > > here > > > > > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere). > > > > > > > > > > From the Papy.com website: > > > > > > > > > > The NASCAR� Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR > > Racing� > > > 3, > > > > > NASCAR� Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR� Racing 3

Craftsman > > > Truck > > > > > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great > price. > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released inthis > > > > format? > > > > > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL andthe > > > > patches > > > > > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bincompilations

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> > and > > > > > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount > > > titles? > > > > > Something doesn't make sense here? > > > > > > > > > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to > have > > > to > > > > > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff, > > fine, > > > > but > > > > > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already? > > > > > > > > > > Marc. > > > > > > > > I for one am not happy with this sales philosophy at all !! I

was > > > more > > > > than willing to purchase the Truck expansion pack for $25-30. ButI'm

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> > not > > > > going to buy this package for what must be $50 or more. > > > > > > > > I already own Nascar3, don't plan on purchasing Nascar Legends, > but > > I > > > > > > > wanted the trucks. So I guess I'll just pass on this whole deal. > Another > > > > dumb ass merchandising plan by Sierra. > > > > > > > > Joel Willstein > > > > [email hidden] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Stiff one" <[email hidden]> wrote > "Some people think ymenard is an asshole, I'm one of them" <joke> Hello, Barton ;) </joke> -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Francois has done a lot more for simracing than you'll be able to accomplish in any field in your lifetime. Especially with that attitude. Jan. =--- Stiff one wrote.... > <Snip> "Some people think ymenard is an asshole, I'm one of them" >

My name is Jan Johnson I come from Wisconsin........... I see your into ass kissing! Will you kiss my ass too? Al Stiff "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SNAB4.6076$[email hidden]... > Francois has done a lot more for simracing than you'll be able toaccomplish

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> in any field in your lifetime. Especially with that attitude. > > Jan. > =--- > Stiff one wrote.... > > <Snip> "Some people think ymenard is an asshole, I'm one of them" > > > >

<no joke> Bzzzzzzt! Wrong Answer! </no joke> > <joke> > Hello, Barton ;) > </joke>

Does the word respect have any meaning to you at all?? Don't bother replying, you're killfiled. Jan. =--- Stiff one <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TLCB4.67018$[email hidden]... > My name is Jan Johnson I come from Wisconsin........... > I see your into ass kissing! Will you kiss my ass too? > Al Stiff > <snip>

Such as? BB Jan Verschueren wrote: > > Francois has done a lot more for simracing than you'll be able to accomplish > in any field in your lifetime. Especially with that attitude. > > Jan.�

<no joke> Bzzzzzzt! Wrong Answer! </no joke> ymenard wrote: > <joke> > Hello, Barton ;) > </joke>

He didn't indicate that Fran has not done a lot for sim racing, only that he is an asshole. Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SNAB4.6076$[email hidden]... > Francois has done a lot more for simracing than you'll be able toaccomplish

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> in any field in your lifetime. Especially with that attitude. > > Jan. > =--- > Stiff one wrote.... > > <Snip> "Some people think ymenard is an asshole, I'm one of them" > > > >

Well said Todd! "Todd Sorensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:D0LB4.17001$[email hidden]... > He didn't indicate that Fran has not done a lot for sim racing, only thathe

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> is an asshole. > > > Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:SNAB4.6076$[email hidden]... > > Francois has done a lot more for simracing than you'll be able to > accomplish > > in any field in your lifetime. Especially with that attitude. > > > > Jan. > > =--- > > Stiff one wrote.... > > > <Snip> "Some people think ymenard is an asshole, I'm one of them" > > > > > > > > >

"Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote > Such as? It's none of your business! eh! Im not helping you, unlike the "I don't know how many" in the past years. Ever knew I was a NROS.. ah nevermind ;) Unless you want to sue me for legal stuff (obvious N3.d reference teehee). Kinda obvious you don't have a clue, which is fun in it's own way. At least we can all laugh at you. Your as hateful as Ubisoft!!! LOL ok that was a cheap shot. LOL teehee! 8) -- fun -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Francois, no offence my friend, but you're beginning to lose it. lol ;-) Jan. =--- ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0p_B4.1203$[email hidden]... > "Barton Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Such as? > > It's none of your business! eh! Im not helping you, unlike the "I don't > know how many" in the past years. Ever knew I was a NROS.. ah nevermind;) > > Unless you want to sue me for legal stuff (obvious N3.d reference teehee). > Kinda obvious you don't have a clue, which is fun in it's own way. Atleast > we can all laugh at you. Your as hateful as Ubisoft!!! LOL ok that was a > cheap shot. LOL teehee! 8) ><snip>

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote > Francois, no offence my friend, but you're beginning to lose it. lol ;-) Didn't you knew that already? 8) Im becoming senile, probably <vbg> -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.WeRace.net -- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Marc, they are too busy right now with N4, finalizing it. It is close! The leaving of Charlie Heath was significant! I wonder who will be their clean up hitter now! Plus, in the past he did their networking code, so maybe his work was done for N4. Not sure if the patches will ever get finished now! Pete "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VR8B4.49133$[email hidden]...

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> I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked here > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere). > > From the Papy.com website: > > The NASCAR� Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR Racing� 3, > NASCAR� Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR� Racing 3 Craftsman Truck > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price. > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this

format? > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and thepatches > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations and > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount titles? > Something doesn't make sense here? > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to have to > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff, fine,but > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already? > > Marc. > > -- >**************************************************************************** > Marc Collins > [email hidden] > > Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and > blame them on other computers. >**************************************************************************** > > >

Have you checked out the beta site lately? They just released the 1200 patch (looks like to be the last beta version, will probably end up being the final) that adds all the truck stuff and also VASTLY improves online play. I have honestly yet to see a warp with this new patch. Pete <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kJGC4.6681$[email hidden]... > Marc, they are too busy right now with N4, finalizing it. It is close! > The > leaving of Charlie Heath was significant! I wonder who will be their clean > up hitter now! Plus, in the past he did their networking code, so maybehis

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> work was done for N4. Not sure if the patches will ever get finished now! > > Pete > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:VR8B4.49133$[email hidden]... > > I guess in all of the masturbatory fervour regarding F12000 warez > > downloading and testing, an important development has been overlooked

here > > at r.a.s. (though discussed elsewhere). > > > > From the Papy.com website: > > > > The NASCAR� Acceleration Pack includes our award winning NASCAR Racing�3, > > NASCAR� Legends, and brand new for 2000: NASCAR� Racing 3 CraftsmanTruck

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> > Expansion Pack. Three top titles in one package for one great price. > > > > Does anyone have a problem with this package being released in this > format? > > Or are you all happy that you paid full price for N3 and NL and the > patches > > aren't even out for them yet? I am all for bargain bin compilations and > > great deals, but is N4 that close that N3 and NL are just discount

titles? > > Something doesn't make sense here? > > > > I guess I would not want my most loyal early-adopter customers to haveto

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> > pay more for my CURRENT products than a late adopter. Old stuff, fine, > but > > as I said, do N3 and NL qualify as old already? > > > > Marc. > > > > -- > > >

****************************************************************************

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> > Marc Collins > > [email hidden] > > > > Computers will never equal humans until they make mistakes and > > blame them on other computers. > > >

**************************************************************************** > > > > > > > >