N3 ideas...read then add yours

Here are some of my ideas for Nascar 3 that I think would be great in the game. 1. If a accident happens right before the pits, the player should be able to fly down pitroad without a black flag. 2. Tire going down=loss of control 3.Tires actually blowing up and the fragments will tear your sheet metal. 4.Sun Glare ( this I think will already be in it anyway) 5.when accidents happen oil is put on the track and the spotter says"There is slick stuff in turn 3, be careful!" and it can get on the windshield, which would obscure the view. 6. Mini debris 7. I know I will get harrassed for saying this but NO flips! It will chew up the frame rate and the cars have roof flaps to prevent this. Besides Papyrus aimes for realism and the cars don't flip that much anymore. 8. Damage on the driver and passenger sides, they must be invincible in N2! 9. Injuries to the driver( this would be great, yet not so great.) If a horrible crash happens, somebody would fracture something. The most awful extent of an injury would eliminate a driver for 5 races. Just so it doesn't get to ***. 10.hand signals. 11. Track editor!!! that is all I can think of now but please put your responses below mine. Ryan Murray

My ideas: 1. Configure a button on wheel, joystick, keyboard to actually fire the engine...it's kinda "unrealistic" to hop in the car and have it already running. 2. Have a video of the pit stop, with YOUR car superimposed into the sequence; kinda like the opening "Quick Race" screen where your car is shown up on jackstands in the garage, only have the pitstop in full motion. More to this: have different types of video pit stops with a regular 2 or 4 tire stop, crew repairing minor damage, and crew repairing major damage. 3. The ability to drive to Victory Lane, or at least "ask for directions".... 4. Drive the car back to the garage after wrecking it, then the crew repairs it. and drive it back out to make some laps... Jimmy

> Here are some of my ideas for Nascar 3 that I think would be great in > the game. > that is all I can think of now but please put your responses below > mine. > Ryan Murray I would like to see improvements that add to the strategy of the sim. The first two I have I'm sure Papyrus/Sierra would implement as soon as they figure out the programming. 1. Double File Restarts - Gives you a better chance of getting a lap back and the leaders more of a reason to race cars a lap down. 2. Random Pit Stalls - Makes it harder to find your pit. Next, I was initially dissapointed w/N2 because, although true to the rules, we lost some setup options, but didn't gain any. 3. An engine adjustment, such as fuel mixture or timing. Say at Taladega the adjustment from min lean to max rich would vary lap times 0.3 sec while changing mileage 3 laps. This would really add some variation to multiplayer races. My numbers may not be perfect, but think about the concept. 4. By the time N3 comes out, the GN series should be incorporated. How about allowing only two tire pit stops in a GN race. This may be more true to Winston West rules, but would be something to differentiate GN from WC. If you race 100%, you are going to have to change the left sides sometime, and different drivers will choose different times to do this, which should make multiplayer more interesting. 5. Speaking of tires, I remember a race in the late 80's when Tim Richmond/Harry Hyde told the crew to put the jack under the pumpkin and they changed both rear tires in a two tire stop. This is the only time I've seen this done, and while extremely rare, might have some uses in N3. 6. For random breakdowns, how about losing an ignition box. The driver would have to press a key, say "I", to switch to the other box. Imagine being in a tight draft at Taladega and having to switch, while cars behind you have to check up. 7. Finally, and it's been said before, give us back the option to calculate our own fuel. In N1, I always added fuel to run out on the last lap, with dreams of coasting over the line for the win. Also, in N1, the fuel mileage seemed to vary more between drafting and running up front. At Taladega, I once conned a buddy of mine into racing a 27% race (I think), which was two more laps than a full fuel run. He didn't realize this and went to the front and had to stop. I drafted the AI for a while and made it without stopping.

Put the dragstrip into Sears Pt. And Gilligans Island, and make you pit there if you qualify badly. Display a "perfect line" indicator, and show braking points. Add paddock entrances so you drive back to your garage/trailer. Have diamond vision screens that follow the leader. -dB -- "It's hard to find a black cat in a dark room. | David Brower

We wouldn't call it a sim if we have diamond vision screens

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>Put the dragstrip into Sears Pt. And Gilligans Island, and make you >pit there if you qualify badly. >Display a "perfect line" indicator, and show braking points. >Add paddock entrances so you drive back to your garage/trailer. >Have diamond vision screens that follow the leader. >-dB >-- >"It's hard to find a black cat in a dark room. | David Brower

>Here are some of my ideas for Nascar 3 that I think would be great in >the game. One word: 3DFX. Joe

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> My ideas: > 1. Configure a button on wheel, joystick, keyboard to actually fire the > engine...it's kinda "unrealistic" to hop in the car and have it already > running. > Jimmy

It would be more realistic to possibly have the engine stall out during a crash or a spin. Then you could refire the engine with the button. -- Phil Young Schiznit Racing President (Nwst) Knights of the Round Track driver (IDRS)

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>Put the dragstrip into Sears Pt. And Gilligans Island, and make you >pit there if you qualify badly. >Display a "perfect line" indicator, and show braking points. >Add paddock entrances so you drive back to your garage/trailer. >Have diamond vision screens that follow the leader. >-dB >-- >"It's hard to find a black cat in a dark room. | David Brower

For N3 it would be cool if you could roll and have pit men that worked instead of having dummies or nothing. Maybe have a built in track desighner that you created tracks in 3D! That 3DO editor gives me a major hedache. That would be cool if you roll keep going and chips of glass start falling from the winsheild. Alex

1,2,3,4 and Definitely 7. In my opinion, the others won't add to the driving experience. I could see your point on 9 if you were doing a lot of online series racing, but how about instead of injuries, you have winnings that will fund you, and if you wreck a car, you have to buy a new one, and if you wreck too many, you will eventually run out of funds.

That and much more will be a part of Nascar Manager, which is due out this Winter. -- http://ebusch.akorn.net

1.Yellows. A toggle... For yellows once you align yourself in the pack press a key to lock your position, have time acceleration, then give you control of the car a 1/2 lap before going green. Have this in multipalyer as well, once everybody is aligned and locks in via keypress then everybody is time warped forward. If somebody (human) pits then you stay live until ALL people lock in. This may sound a bit foolish to some but this is the #1 idea that I get from quite a good sized group of local network players. We like yellows and what they stand for and how they tighten the race up. We do not like a multiplayer race that is full of long boring yellows. We as a group feel this would be the greatest enhancement, to keep the game hoping and keeping the group tight. That's the FUN of it. 2.AI Crash Pileups. In multiplayer sometimes you get a big wreck and the AI is just stuck in this pile and other AI cars will wait and not drive around it. When this happens the game is pretty much shot in realistics terms. At that point all the human drivers go right to the front. I wouldn't mind seeing again a toggle where destroyed cars are automatically deleted from the track so the rest of the race can continue. Again for the FUN of it. 3.More performance and Gfx. I think both are very possible with todays hardware. There are still some hicups in performance even with a Rendition card (I don't feel the card is the bottleneck) and the graphics can be improved. AA ect... 4. Better car import facility. 5. Keep arcade mode. Q.B.M. N2 Lover.

> That and much more will be a part of Nascar Manager, which is due out this > Winter. Someone please tell me what this is and what it does?? Thanks,

Hear, hear! I could not agree with this more! I love the premise of yellows, but get tired of driving them lap after lap after lap. An option such as is described above would be *perfect*. $0.02, Rick

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>That and much more will be a part of Nascar Manager, which is due out this >Winter. >-- >http://ebusch.akorn.net

Speaking of which.... I'm pulling this out of your post about E3 Eric, so if I'm totally off base, well, it's your fault ;). I'd be interested to know if they can use the car files from N2 as a basis for the cars that are displayed in the race in the Manager. From what I read earlier, it sounded like they would use a form of N2's replay to show the races, and we would also have the opportunity to race ourselves using N2. If they could use those car files from N2. We would be able to update the seasons just like we do in Nascar 2 through various sites such as IWCCCARS, Pit Road, etc. It would also allow the player to have custom sponsors of their own, using their own paint jobs as a basis, and would also allow the people who do wish to race going from Nascar Manager to N2 to have a continous fantasy racing career. Just an idea :) -- Brian Simpson IWCCCARS Designer

Ok here's what I can tell you from what I can remember. I guess I could tell you a bit more, but then I'd have to use that little memory thingy they used in the monve Men In Black. Decent film BTW. Nothing special, but not horrible either. Actually the thing that stand out the most was how short it was, but this really is another thread... Back to the topic at hand, Nascar Manager. You're correct on both accoutns. The actual in-race gameplay occurs from a screen very similar to N2's replay screen, and if you own N2 you can actually run the races. From what I could tell, you'll be able to use the cars you already have in your N2 entry lists. As far as sponsors go, the plan is to have a large number of fictional ones and their coresponding paint mockups to choose from. Mike was asking for my input on a number of things, and one of the first things I recommended was the ability to create sponsors as well as including a paintkit (either one specific to Nascar Manager or the one from N2) to create the associated decals. Time will tell if this makes it in or not though. -- http://ebusch.akorn.net

Here's a clip straight from my eariler E3 coverage: "Mike Lescault was kind enough to show off his baby, Nascar Manager (or whatever it ends up being entitled). Basically it's a simulation of Nascar team management. You're in charge off all aspects of the racing scene including hiring of crew (making sure personalities don't clash), division of labor (chasis, engine, etc.), contract negoations, etc. The in race portion is extremely cool. It's a stand alone product, but you have the choice to take over and race the races in N2. Otherwise it defaults to a view reminicient to the replay screen in N2 where you watch your driver in the race. If all goes well and you have the right setup, pit strategy, avoid accidents, and have a little luck you'll be on the path to a great season. This is a very unique product, and should find it's niche in the market. Oh, did I mention it's pretty damn cool?" -- http://ebusch.akorn.net

Here's a clip straight from my eariler E3 coverage: "Mike Lescault was kind enough to show off his baby, Nascar Manager (or whatever it ends up being entitled). Basically it's a simulation of Nascar team management. You're in charge off all aspects of the racing scene including hiring of crew (making sure personalities don't clash), division of labor (chasis, engine, etc.), contract negoations, etc. The in race portion is extremely cool. It's a stand alone product, but you have the choice to take over and race the races in N2. Otherwise it defaults to a view reminicient to the replay screen in N2 where you watch your driver in the race. If all goes well and you have the right setup, pit strategy, avoid accidents, and have a little luck you'll be on the path to a great season. This is a very unique product, and should find it's niche in the market. Oh, did I mention it's pretty damn cool?" -- http://ebusch.akorn.net

Ok, ok, so many of these are carryovers from what I would like to see added to whatever CART sim comes next, but.. 1) Built-in support for running keyboard functions from the steering wheel/joystick. With specific regard to CART, this would allow you to toggle on autobrake from the wheel (ala the magic 'pit speed button'). For N3, I can see this being pretty useful as well, allowing the driver to check the leader's position, check the pit status, or to check his position in the running order without having to take more than a couple of fingers off of the wheel. Granted, it might not be as realistic or perhaps as appropriate as it would be for a CART game, but still useful. And dreadfully easy to implement in the code, I imagine. (BTW-- I know about and habitually use the gp2btn utility, but it would be nice to see this kind of feature already built into the game.) 2) A more time-oriented spotter. Without the inclusion of some kind of real-time lap timer on the dash ala ICR2, it'd be nice to be able to have the spotter call time intervals in the corners. Two applications for this I can think of: first, it could replace the F2-Enter display that updates all of the intervals. Second, and perhaps more useful in the quest for records, the spotter could be instructed to call the split-times to various corners from a specified replay file. While I've never listened to the spotters at a real race, you see it done on broadcasts of alpine skiing, F1 qualifying, etc, it would stand to reason that this could be done with the real cars. Again, this seems like it could, or at least >>should<< be rather easy to put into the code. 3) Have the spotter call which cars are involved in spins, wrecks, etc. Not of much real use, but I always like knowing whether or not the cars I'm racing for position get collected in the spins and wrecks. Again (recognizing a theme here?), this should be relatively simple to do. 4) Random cautions for debris. The logic should be self-evident. Could this be done with a fairly straight-forward call to the rand() function? Sure, none of the ideas here are sweeping, radical changes from the previous products, but it's little details such as these that can make a merely good game great. - Stuart

HERE ARE SOME COOL SUGGESTIONS FOR N3 INSTED OF ENDING A RACE BECAUSE OF A WRECK, WHY NOT ALLOW PLAYERS TO BE TOWED INTO THE GARAGE AREA FOR A FIEW SECONDS, THEN RE-ENTER THE ONGOING RACE MANY LAPS DOWN, FROM THE GARAGE. IT WOULD BE BOTH MORE REALISTIC, AND FAIR AS REAL NWC DRIVERS RUN JUNKERS IN ORDER TO KEEP THEIR ACCUMULATED POINTS. IT WOULD ALSO BE INTERESTING IF WE COULD TOGGLE ON AND OFF MISTAKES MADE IN THE PITS. FOR EXAMPLE, A CREWMAN COULD SLIP, OR THE LUGNUTS WEREN'T TIGHTENED ALL THE WAY. (IT WOULD EVEN BE COOL IF THE CAR VIBRATED BECAUSE OF THIS) HOW ABOUT AN ENEXPLICABLE PLUMAGE OF SMOKE THAT FORCES YOU TO PIT. THE HOOD COULD GO UP,(ALOWING YOU TO SEE THAT BEAUTIFUL HOOD YOU DESIGNED) LAPS GO BY WHILE THE TEAM FIXES A BROKEN OIL LINE, THEN BACK TO RACING. IT WOULD ALSO BE COOL IF DURING PRACTICE SESSIONS, HALF OF THE DRIVERS WERE ALREADY RUNNING HOT-LAPS, INSTEAD OF ALL DOING GOD KNOWS WHAT ON PIT ROAD. AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE COOL IF I COULD ACTUALY FINE TUNE MY ENGINE. RICHING THE CARB MIXTURE FOR POWER, OR LEANING IT FOR ECONOMY. AFTER ALL, DW DIDN'T GET CROWNED THE GAS MILAGE KING FOR NOTHING. AND WHAT'S UP WITH THE DRAFTING, AT TALLY OR USA, I CAN STEP OUT OF LINE FOR LAP AFTER LAP, AND NEVER GET HUNG OUT TO DRY. IF I***UP, I SHOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. HAS PAPYRUS EVER HEARD OF A YELLOW FLAG THROWN FOR MICROSCOPIC DEBRIS? WHY CAN'T I EVER LOOSE A CYLINDER? THE IN CAR PIT TIMER IS A MUST DRIVER SIGNALS. I HATE DRAFTING A CAR, ONLY TO HAVE THE DRIVER JAM ON THE BRAKES UNEXPECTEDLY BECAUSE HE'S GOING TO PIT ... AND I'M SURE HE HATES IT JUST AS MUCH WHEN I PUNT HIM DOWN THE TRACK A GOOD 300 YARDS. THE CAR SHOULD PERIODICLY BLINK OR SOMETHING SO THE DRAFTING DRIVER KNOWS THAT HE PLANS TO CLIMB ALL OVER THE BINDERS.

OK, HERE'S THE DEAL. WE'RE ALL CHEWIN' THE FAT IN HERE WISHIN' AND DREAMIN' OF WHAT N3 COULD BE, AND GRANTED, THERE ARE SOME DAMN GOOD IDEAS. FUNDS THAT CAN RUN OUT (OPTIONAL) START BUTTON ON THE COLUMN,(COLUMN, IS THAT RIGHT?) DRIVER AND PASSENGER SIDE DAMMAGE, "I" BUTTON IGNITION SWITCH. I DIDN'T SEE ANY BAD IDEAS. SOME MORE PRACTICAL THAN OTHERS, BUT NO BAD ONES. MY QUESTION, HOWEVER, IS: WHEN WILL PAPY EVER SEE OR REACT TO THESE IDEAS. I'M KINDA NEW HERE, SO I DON'T REALY KNOW THE ROPES, BUT WHAT ... I MEAN DO THEY SEND A REP TO VISIT THIS SEITE OCCASIONALY TO GET INPUT ( GOD KNOWS I WOULD) THESE IDEAS WOULD LITERALY MAKE THE GAME. ONE BIGGIE WOULD BE THE RANDOMIZER. I KNOW IF I'M SICK OF RACING THE SAME 38 CARS, EVERYONE MUST BE TOO. BUT ANYWAY, WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH THESE IDEAS. IT SEAMS TO ME WHEN WE GET SICK OF OUR OLD TOYS, WE JUST COME HERE TO TALK ABOUT HOW TO FIX THEM- WHAT'S PAPY GOT TO DO WITH US?

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>Here's a clip straight from my eariler E3 coverage: >"Mike Lescault was kind enough to show off his baby, Nascar Manager (or >whatever it ends up being entitled). Basically it's a simulation of Nascar >team management. You're in charge off all aspects of the racing scene >including hiring of crew (making sure personalities don't clash), division >of labor (chasis, engine, etc.), contract negoations, etc. The in race >portion is extremely cool. It's a stand alone product, but you have the >choice to take over and race the races in N2. --

(snip) >http://ebusch.akorn.net Sounds kind of like Wayne Gretzky3 and Hockey League Simulator. Both were stand alone Play and Manage sims. I'm glad to see that type of product coming back again! Regards, Gavel Greg

Really? For one thing, how about turning off the caps lock!

darnit stop posting in all caps

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>OK, HERE'S THE DEAL. WE'RE ALL CHEWIN' THE FAT IN HERE WISHIN' AND >DREAMIN' OF WHAT N3 COULD BE, AND GRANTED, THERE ARE SOME DAMN GOOD IDEAS. > FUNDS THAT CAN RUN OUT (OPTIONAL) START BUTTON ON THE COLUMN,(COLUMN, IS >THAT RIGHT?) DRIVER AND PASSENGER SIDE DAMMAGE, "I" BUTTON IGNITION >SWITCH. I DIDN'T SEE ANY BAD IDEAS. SOME MORE PRACTICAL THAN OTHERS, BUT >NO BAD ONES. MY QUESTION, HOWEVER, IS: WHEN WILL PAPY EVER SEE OR REACT >TO THESE IDEAS. I'M KINDA NEW HERE, SO I DON'T REALY KNOW THE ROPES, BUT >WHAT ... I MEAN DO THEY SEND A REP TO VISIT THIS SEITE OCCASIONALY TO GET >INPUT ( GOD KNOWS I WOULD) THESE IDEAS WOULD LITERALY MAKE THE GAME. ONE >BIGGIE WOULD BE THE RANDOMIZER. I KNOW IF I'M SICK OF RACING THE SAME 38 >CARS, EVERYONE MUST BE TOO. BUT ANYWAY, WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH THESE IDEAS. > IT SEAMS TO ME WHEN WE GET SICK OF OUR OLD TOYS, WE JUST COME HERE TO >TALK ABOUT HOW TO FIX THEM- WHAT'S PAPY GOT TO DO WITH US?

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>> My ideas: >It would be more realistic to possibly have the engine stall out during >a crash or a spin. Then you could refire the engine with the button. >-- >Phil Young >Schiznit Racing President (Nwst) >Knights of the Round Track driver (IDRS)

I agree Phil, but maybe the addition of a clutch so that we could a least get our foot on the clutch to prevent stalling the engine. You never know if the battery is up to re-firing the engine. In any case the ability to fire up the V8 engine at race time would be altermate. Just imagine sitting in the ***pit, the only sound is a muffled load speaker noise from the on track commentator. Then we hear over a microphone the words "Drivers, Start Your Engines" . You hear others cars fire up just as you press a button on your dash-board, blip the gas pedal and the crack of a V8 engine fills your speakers. I might even shut-her down just to do it again. Oh dear I better go get some fresh air. -- Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy Hamilton New Zealand

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>> 1.Yellows. >> A toggle... >> For yellows once you align yourself in the pack press a key to lock your >> position, have time acceleration, then give you control of the car a 1/2 lap >> before going green. Have this in multipalyer as well, once everybody is >> aligned and locks in via keypress then everybody is time warped forward. If >> somebody (human) pits then you stay live until ALL people lock in. >Hear, hear! I could not agree with this more! I love the premise of >yellows, but get tired of driving them lap after lap after lap. An >option such as is described above would be *perfect*. >$0.02, >Rick

Sorry chaps, but I prefer the slow down period in the yellows for a few reasons. 1. Gives me time to go over my pit stradegy 2. Stretch me ***and neck. 3. Take a leak without pausing in the middle of hard out racing. Besides I don't seem to get a whole bunch of Yellows, one or two per 100 laps. But then I don't win a hell of a lot either so maybe the lack of yellows is because I not agreasive enough and tend not to be the cause of too many. -- Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy Hamilton New Zealand

>OK, HERE'S THE DEAL. WE'RE ALL CHEWIN' THE FAT IN HERE WISHIN' AND >TALK ABOUT HOW TO FIX THEM- WHAT'S PAPY GOT TO DO WITH US? Sure thing, Papyrus employees do frequent this newsgroup and in fact reply regularly. Keep up the good work Papy. -- Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy Hamilton New Zealand

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> I agree Phil, but maybe the addition of a clutch so that we > could a least get our foot on the clutch to prevent stalling > the engine. You never know if the battery is up to re-firing > the engine. In any case the ability to fire up the V8 engine > at race time would be altermate. Just imagine sitting in the >***pit, the only sound is a muffled load speaker noise from > the on track commentator. Then we hear over a microphone the > words "Drivers, Start Your Engines" . You hear others cars > fire up just as you press a button on your dash-board, blip > the gas pedal and the crack of a V8 engine fills your > speakers. I might even shut-her down just to do it again. > Oh dear I better go get some fresh air. > -- > Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports > Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy > Hamilton > New Zealand

Yes a clutch would be a great addition to the game except for one thing, The current wheel and pedals sets do not have a clutch pedal. Which means we would have to get all new sets to be able to use the feature. -- Phil Young Schiznit Racing President (Nwst) Knights of the Round Track driver (IDRS)

On Sat, 05 Jul 1997 01:49:34 -0400, Phil Young >Yes a clutch would be a great addition to the game except for one thing, >The current wheel and pedals sets do not have a clutch pedal. Which >means we would have to get all new sets to be able to use the feature. Ever think of a button for a clutch? Not completely realistic...but neither is shifting a Nascar with a button!

Need to add oily and dirty windshields (cleaned at pit stops..), and also sun glares when appropriate, with optional sun visor darkening the screen when toggled.

How about Jeff Gordon wrecking every other race. Cowen Wilson ********************************************************** Affordable Web Page and Site Services http://www.awpss.com **********************************************************

Faster starts and restarts by the AI. It is just to darn easy to pass them on the first lap, even with the pace lap on IMO. Being able to chat in multiplayer with something other than the hot keys, autochat.

2 line restarts! Can't someone hack the save-game files, so you could save the race under caution, run the "re-organizer," and then re-enter the race at the drop of the green flag, with the cars organized properly in 2 lines? Tom

How about Jeff Gordon winning everyrace --

How about closer drafting at Talladega or a randomizer were the same people don't win every race like John Andretti who is better at restrictors. --

If you run out of funds you can't race and that is what the game is for!

>2 line restarts! Can't someone hack the save-game files, so you could save >the race under caution, run the "re-organizer," and then re-enter the race >at the drop of the green flag, with the cars organized properly in 2 lines? I doubt it Tom as Papyrus have said themselves that the Artificial Intelligence is simply not up Double file Restarts, but they are working on it for Nascar 3. Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports (Memeber of the Nascar Offline Racing Series) Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy Hamilton New Zealand

Errr. Maybe, but it would be better if there were a couple of things factored in. Like the chance goes up after someone's motor goes, or something. They would probably be better off writing their own function using probabilities. Indeed. Jason Reineri *-------------------------------------------- * Kennesaw State Ice Hockey * * http://Pigseye.kennesaw.EDU/~jreineri *--------------------------------------------

Drinking lately? Jason Reineri *-------------------------------------------- * Kennesaw State Ice Hockey * * http://Pigseye.kennesaw.EDU/~jreineri *--------------------------------------------

Wait! The race starts in 2 lines! What is to stop someone from using the starting positions as a template for a re-organized car layout. 1. Save the game just after the spotter says "The pace car is in" 2. Exit to dos or win and run the "2 line patch" 3. Re-enter Nascar 2, load the "patched" saved game. 4. Green flag drops immediately, with the cars in 2 lines. No AI is involved in the reorganization! Seems simple for a programmer who can familiarize themself with the save-game file format. I drank too much in college to remember any programming. I'm pretty sure I took alot of programming - at least that's what they tell me. Tom > >2 line restarts! Can't someone hack the save-game files, so you could save > >the race under caution, run the "re-organizer," and then re-enter the race > >at the drop of the green flag, with the cars organized properly in 2 lines?

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> I doubt it Tom as Papyrus have said themselves that the > Artificial Intelligence is simply not up Double file Restarts, > but they are working on it for Nascar 3. > Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports > (Memeber of the Nascar Offline Racing Series) > Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy > Hamilton > New Zealand

Howdy all: Alright, here are my ideas for N3: some real, some just wishful thinking. Some may have been mentioned...I just picked up this thread a couple of days ago. 1) Real race weekends. Friday qual, Sat qual, sun race, etc. Something like GP2 2) Caution rework. Random cautions for debris (I know this has been mentioned), longer peroids, esp. at short tracks. Double file restarts wouldn't be bad either. 3) Career earnings. I don't want to turn this into a managment simulation, but it'd be nice to know how much I would be winning if this were real. 4) More than 39 drivers on a list....therefore, many people could fail to qualify for any particular race. 5) More gagues...like fuel pressure, etc. 6) Engine failures, and other failures, that you could fix, but would have to go to the garage to do. Like radiators, sway bars, and the like. 7) Heat seeking missles to fire at Jeff Gorden. :) That's about it. Who knows...maybe we'll see one or two in N3. Or, maybe even when the track pack is released. Later, Malicki -- ------------ "I stay unseen by the light I stay untold by the truth I am sold by a lie. By this I am able in all of my travels To make these memories quit. But tonight I clearly recall Every little bit."

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> Wait! The race starts in 2 lines! What is to stop someone from using the > starting positions as a template for a re-organized car layout. > 1. Save the game just after the spotter says "The pace car is in" > 2. Exit to dos or win and run the "2 line patch" > 3. Re-enter Nascar 2, load the "patched" saved game. > 4. Green flag drops immediately, with the cars in 2 lines. > No AI is involved in the reorganization!

Right, but the AI "knows" when it's in a pace lap, which is distinct from pacing under yellow. Pacing on a pace lap only occurs once per game, and once the race is underway, the AI cars "know" to pace single file... ---Jim

So why can't you just tell them to pace double file?????? -- Cowen Wilson ********************************************************** Affordable Web Page and Site Services http://www.awpss.com ********************************************************** > > Wait! The race starts in 2 lines! What is to stop someone from using the > > starting positions as a template for a re-organized car layout. > > 1. Save the game just after the spotter says "The pace car is in" > > 2. Exit to dos or win and run the "2 line patch" > > 3. Re-enter Nascar 2, load the "patched" saved game. > > 4. Green flag drops immediately, with the cars in 2 lines. > > No AI is involved in the reorganization! > Right, but the AI "knows" when it's in a pace lap, which is distinct > from pacing under yellow. Pacing on a pace lap only occurs once per > game, and once the race is underway, the AI cars "know" to pace single > file... > ---Jim

Yes, but if you guys want it so realistic, they should take out the fuel gauge and F1, F2, F3, F4 fuction since they don't have them in real life Also Earnhardt....

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>That's about it. Who knows...maybe we'll see one or two in N3. Or, >maybe even when the track pack is released. >Later, >Malicki >-- >------------ >"I stay unseen by the light > I stay untold by the truth > I am sold by a lie. > By this I am able in all of my travels > To make these memories quit. > But tonight I clearly recall > Every little bit."

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>> On Sat, 05 Jul 1997 01:49:34 -0400, Phil Young >> >Yes a clutch would be a great addition to the game except for one thing, >> >The current wheel and pedals sets do not have a clutch pedal. Which >> >means we would have to get all new sets to be able to use the feature. >> Ever think of a button for a clutch? Not completely realistic...but >> neither is shifting a Nascar with a button! >Yeah, I definitely think so too. I think a clutch feature would be >great. Also a gearbox that works like Need for Speed. >I'd also like for Sierra to make the cars accelerate in 1st gear like a >700 horspower racecar should. When you drive at road courses like >Sonoma, when you have to accelerate out of 1st, the cars feel like >slugs. >One last one. Sorry Chevy guys, but I think the car model looks ugly. >I'd like to see one that looks shorter in height and more aerodynamic, >like a Ford. Or like one in N1 where there were traits of each car make >in it.

They don't use 1st gear except in the pits

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> On Sat, 05 Jul 1997 01:49:34 -0400, Phil Young > >Yes a clutch would be a great addition to the game except for one thing, > >The current wheel and pedals sets do not have a clutch pedal. Which > >means we would have to get all new sets to be able to use the feature. > Ever think of a button for a clutch? Not completely realistic...but > neither is shifting a Nascar with a button!

Yeah, I definitely think so too. I think a clutch feature would be great. Also a gearbox that works like Need for Speed. I'd also like for Sierra to make the cars accelerate in 1st gear like a 700 horspower racecar should. When you drive at road courses like Sonoma, when you have to accelerate out of 1st, the cars feel like slugs. One last one. Sorry Chevy guys, but I think the car model looks ugly. I'd like to see one that looks shorter in height and more aerodynamic, like a Ford. Or like one in N1 where there were traits of each car make in it.

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> > 4. Green flag drops immediately, with the cars in 2 lines. > > No AI is involved in the reorganization! > Right, but the AI "knows" when it's in a pace lap, which is distinct > from pacing under yellow. Pacing on a pace lap only occurs once per > game, and once the race is underway, the AI cars "know" to pace single > file... > ---Jim

Jim, They would not have to pace at all in 2 lines. The save-game 2-line patch would force the green flag to drop instantly! The important aspect would be to save the game and apply the patch immediately before the green flag drops. When you return, you're in 2 lines and in green flag racing. Tom

Yes...they don't have them in 'real life', but they do have an intelligent spotter that gives them that information. Berg

> They would not have to pace at all in 2 lines. The save-game 2-line patch > would force the green flag to drop instantly! The important aspect would be > to save the game and apply the patch immediately before the green flag > drops. When you return, you're in 2 lines and in green flag racing. I don't see any technical reason why a hack like this couldn't be done. I'd recommend setting it up such that you saved the game just AFTER the green flag came out, so that the variables involved in race flagging status would be properly saved and wouldn't have to be modified by the tool. (You'd already be moving the cars around; might as well move them back a little bit to throw the green...) Of course, this would eliminate the strategy and tactical aspects of restarts. If you know it's going green immediately on resume, there's nothing more to think about... Best solution of all is for Papy to include double file restarts in N3, but as an interim solution, I think your scheme could be done by an outsider. ---Jim

Chris, I have such a randomizer and a patch that changes the AI cars to run 2 and 3 wide around Talladega. I think it much improves racing at this track. If you're interested, email me. -Roger

Very true Cowen Wilson ********************************************************** Affordable Web Page and Site Services http://www.awpss.com **********************************************************

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> On 9 Jul 1997 17:30:04 GMT, "Cowen Wilson" > >How about Jeff Gordon wrecking every other race. > Wasn't that Rusty Wallace? > ---------------------------------- > Keith Robb > Visit the Canadian Military Police > and Provost Corps web site at > http://www.inforamp.net/~krobb > "Freedom is not Free" > ----------------------------------

On 9 Jul 1997 17:30:04 GMT, "Cowen Wilson" >How about Jeff Gordon wrecking every other race. Wasn't that Rusty Wallace? ---------------------------------- Keith Robb Visit the Canadian Military Police and Provost Corps web site at http://www.inforamp.net/~krobb "Freedom is not Free" ----------------------------------

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> > How about closer drafting at Talladega or a randomizer were the same > > people don't win every race like John Andretti who is better at > > restrictors > Chris, I have such a randomizer and a patch that changes the AI cars > to run > 2 and 3 wide around Talladega. I think it much improves racing at this > track. If you're interested, email me. > -Roger

I also have randomized ratings for each type of track. Check out http://www.theuspits/iwcccars/index.html-ssi. Download Starting Grid and the ratings files for it. -- ---- IWCCCARS Contributor - http://www.theuspits.com/iwcccars/ Team Zero Nass '97 Director - http://www.erols.com/dknauber/zero/index.html

<<...While I've never listened to the spotters at a real race, you see it done on broadcasts of alpine skiing, F1 qualifying, etc, it would stand to reason that this could be done with the real cars. Again, this seems>> I'm not sure if it uses RealAudio or not, but I remeber seeing somthing on Jeff Gordon's homepage about listening to the pit-crew/spotter/driver live during the race...If you want to check it out, just go to JG's homepage: www.jeffgordon.com PolloLoco BTW- I am NO WAY a fan of #24

Some more things that I think would make the sim more realsitic: Have cars bottom out every once and a while, use the same sparks from hitting the wall, but make them come out of the back end, and have them really colorfull at the night tracks! We got a Pace Car and Race Cars, why not a Quick Dry Druck, Cleanup truck, Tow Truck, and a flat bed truck for when the cars get REALLY messed up...maybe even an ambulance? I for one would like to be able to start races and practices the way they do in real life: -Everyone lines up at the end of pit road for practice sessions. I've seen Happy Hour Practices in person at places like the Rock, and they line up three wide waiting to get out on the track... -For the race, have a roll out from the pits, with possibly two pace cars out there for the first couple laps.... AI improvements: -AI cars swerve during pace lap and caution laps to heat up tires and get rid of buildup -More realistic speeds with tire wear....In real life, speeds at Bristol drop from 122 to 112 due to tire wear. I may be exaggerating a little, but not much. -How about having the AI cars actually AVOID the accidents instead of looking like I-95 at Rush hour in Washington D.C.? Real cuppers dont stop and wait for the wreck to get cleared, why should the AI? Wouldnt hurt to make em go on the grass every once and a while. -The thing I hate most is having an AI car come down ontop of me in a turn, when I have the line already. Usually happens when I pull out for a pass right before the turn, and get down a little lower than normal...I'll grant that sometimes *I* come up the track, but alot of times the AI cars come down, when any idiot would know not to. -GET RID OF THOSE FIRST TURN BACKUPS! -Make sure the man who made the Tally AI and Dover AI patches is consulted with for the next version. I would like to be able to tape up the front grill in Qualifying, among other things... Be able to examine Tire Wear visually. Have somthing that resembles a chassis besides the engine under the body. It would be cool if the fuel cell would break off every now and then like they are designed to do. When an engine blows, have the engine BLOW! Have the smoke BILLOW out, not sputter out at little more than a (Dick) Trickle <g>. Maybe even some flames every now and then. Multiplayer for the NASCAR manager. Everyone sends in their information to the league coordinator, who runs the race. Copies of a data file smaller than the normal replay file could be sent out, telling the other computer how to run the race. Not sure if this is possible or not, just an idea. It wouldnt be "online" multiplayer, But I think it would be much more entertaining than current offline leagues. I hope the Nascar Manager has the option for the player to operate Multi Car teams as well. This could bring up the Scenario in Days of THunder, where the manager would have to try and keep driver personalities from clashing as well. Whew...Thats all for the first Testament PolloLoco

Some things I think would make the sim better are: Have a place on the setup screen for carb jetting so that you can change the fuel consumption of the car. Also have it so you could finish on 7 cylinders or only with 3 gears not just flat out failure. Finally have more realistic tempatures. Most WC cars don't constanly run at 180 degrees. Nathan

How about a pack of 39 cars drafting at the superspeedways for 20 or more laps like in the real world.

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> > How about closer drafting at Talladega or a randomizer were the same > > people don't win every race like John Andretti who is better at > > restrictors > Chris, I have such a randomizer and a patch that changes the AI cars > to run > 2 and 3 wide around Talladega. I think it much improves racing at this > track. If you're interested, email me. > -Roger

-- MZ

Let's have proper practice sessions and allow us to "scuff" some tires for the race. This of course will require that sometimes s***will work better than sticker tires during a race (or even different times in the race depending on changing track conditions). Tire management! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

True Tom but they do have the ability to talk to their crew chief for the info. The F1 ,F2, F3, F4 keys are our best means of "talking" to the pit chief for info. It would be nice if Papyrus built in a Verbal Commander type of software so as we could use a small microphone to communicate. -- Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports (Memeber of the Nascar Offline Racing Series) Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy Hamilton New Zealand

1) Brake fade/failure; 2) ability to adjust wedge at all the wheels; 3) spring settings w/ separate (sp) shock settings; 4) More than 39 cars to a set so that not everyone will qualify ( I guess the player can take a provisional); 5) better bodies to represent the different makes. (I really can't tell the difference in performance between makes, but I'm new to the game);

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>> >Yes, but if you guys want it so realistic, they should take out the >> fuel >> >gauge and F1, F2, F3, F4 fuction since they don't have them in real >> life >> True Tom but they do have the ability to talk to their crew >> chief for the info. The F1 ,F2, F3, F4 keys are our best >> means of "talking" to the pit chief for info. It would >> be nice if Papyrus built in a Verbal Commander type of >> software so as we could use a small microphone to communicate. >> -- >> I've seen a verbal command deal somewhere on the web, don't know how >> much it costs or how it works; seems cool though!

I believe Verbal Commander costs around $99 US. I haven't sent for it yet as I live in New Zealand and haven't tried to mail order it yet. It would make life easier as I tend to often end up damaging the car when I turn my attention to the key board looking for the F keys. Not only that but before I wired in the clutch pedal on my home built unit I once clipped the gear lever with my elbow after using a F key and down shifted into 3rd while running hard out at Talledega. ("Well, that will certainly end our day") Verbal Commander will save a lot of grief. -- Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports (Memeber of the Nascar Offline Racing Series) Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy Hamilton New Zealand

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> >Yes, but if you guys want it so realistic, they should take out the fuel > >gauge and F1, F2, F3, F4 fuction since they don't have them in real life > True Tom but they do have the ability to talk to their crew > chief for the info. The F1 ,F2, F3, F4 keys are our best > means of "talking" to the pit chief for info. It would > be nice if Papyrus built in a Verbal Commander type of > software so as we could use a small microphone to communicate. > -- > Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports > (Memeber of the Nascar Offline Racing Series) > Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy > Hamilton > New Zealand

AFAIK, the drivers in Winston cup have the possibility to know how much fuel there's in their car with fuel pressure valve indicator. I've heard this while watching the Pepsi 400 (The french transmission). I don't know if it's the crew that have this indicator or the driver. But I think that this is the only "real" way to know it. With great respect, Good race at the Brickyard, (-o-) SPEED- Co-director SPEED- http://www.sim-speed.com/ AWPSS- Co-director AWPSS- http://www.awpss.com/ SRHoF- Director SRHoF- Coming online in 1week ! - *Excuse me for my poor English(I'm French speaking) * -

> AFAIK, the drivers in Winston cup have the possibility to know how much > fuel there's in their car with fuel pressure valve indicator. I've > heard this while watching the Pepsi 400 (The french transmission). I > don't know if it's the crew that have this indicator or the driver. But > I think that this is the only "real" way to know it. The fuel pressure guage is not a fuel level guage. When the fuel pressure guage flickers even slightly, the car is almost out of gas. (The fuel pressure should be fairly constant until the pump begins to pickup air.) The crew generally has a better idea of how much fuel is in the car than the driver, since they know (from practice) how much fuel is burned per lap of green and yellow and how many laps of each since the last top-up. When the car gets right to the end of the fuel load, the crew will sometimes instruct the driver to stay out until the pressure flucuates and then come in, or will just call him in after XXX laps. ---Jim

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> > >Yes, but if you guys want it so realistic, they should take out the > > fuel > > >gauge and F1, F2, F3, F4 fuction since they don't have them in real > > life > > True Tom but they do have the ability to talk to their crew > > chief for the info. The F1 ,F2, F3, F4 keys are our best > > means of "talking" to the pit chief for info. It would > > be nice if Papyrus built in a Verbal Commander type of > > software so as we could use a small microphone to communicate. > > -- > > I've seen a verbal command deal somewhere on the web, don't know how > > much it costs or how it works; seems cool though!

I feel embarrassed enough about the fact that my PC actually has a steering wheel, Gearshift, accelerator and brake pedals. There ain't no way I'm gonna be talking to my games, too! :) Mark Reading, UK

Hells bells Mark, if you fell embarrased with a steering wheel then you would feel totally ridiculous if you were to wear a Virtual Reality helmet. Me, I don't give a hoot, I won't be able to drive a real race car and so happy to drive my PC. You don't need to hold a conversation with your PC, just give it one word commands. Your fiends will think your PC is awsome. :-) Take care -- Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports (Memeber of the Nascar Offline Racing Series) Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy Hamilton New Zealand

As far as a Nascar Racing 3 program, what about classic Nascar? You know, how about racing around an old track in a 64 Belvedere? Hell, make the track dirt! Or even go way back and use the '57 Fords and d whatnot. If this wasn't an entire game by itself, you could add this on as a special feature/expansion pack for NR3. Just an idea. Jp

Now we're talkin'...! I love the old Fairlanes, Galaxies, Impalas, Pontiacs, Dodge Daytonas/Plymouth SuperBirds, Torinos, Cyclones...I watched "RedLine 7000" this weekend on AMC....man, those were some man-handled race cars...No spoilers, no power brakes, steering, the windows still rolled up/down, stock dash and seats... Fireball Roberts, Curtis Turner, Darel Deirenger, Freddy Lorenzen, Joe Weatherly, Jim White, Bobby Johns, Lee and Richard...dirt and asphalt, 1/3 milers, 1/2 milers, 1 milers, 2 1/2 miles, 2.66 miles... Why not...? Papy, are you listening...? This could be better and BIGGER than GPL... ----------------------------------------------------------------- Lisa, mom to Tara, 8 yrs old, "Oh mom, do I have to?" J.P., 5.5 yrs old, "Why do I always have to do it?" and Serena, 6 weeks, "Where are my milk things, MOM?" Come see my under construction web page at: Http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/8570/index.html

Ditto on real world racing...the cars spread out way to quick. lets bunch them up pappy!

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> Now we're talkin'...! I love the old Fairlanes, Galaxies, Impalas, > Pontiacs, Dodge Daytonas/Plymouth SuperBirds, Torinos, Cyclones...I watched > "RedLine 7000" this weekend on AMC....man, those were some man-handled race > cars...No spoilers, no power brakes, steering, the windows still rolled > up/down, stock dash and seats... > Fireball Roberts, Curtis Turner, Darel Deirenger, Freddy Lorenzen, Joe > Weatherly, Jim White, Bobby Johns, Lee and Richard...dirt and asphalt, 1/3 > milers, 1/2 milers, 1 milers, 2 1/2 miles, 2.66 miles... > Why not...? Papy, are you listening...? This could be better and BIGGER > than GPL... > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Lisa, mom to > Tara, 8 yrs old, "Oh mom, do I have to?" > J.P., 5.5 yrs old, "Why do I always have to do it?" and > Serena, 6 weeks, "Where are my milk things, MOM?"

Y'all have got a great idea! Maybe an addon pack with a new car.dat to reflect the older body styles and a revised schedule. Call it the "Golden Age of NASCAR" or at least the iron age! heehee! I would buy that in an instant. I'm a Ford Fan, but what I wouldn't give to be slamming doors at 200mph in my Daytona with that big ol' wing!! -- James