rec.autos.simulators

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

Michael Heymann

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Michael Heymann » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 01:32:53

It seems that we don't have always different opinions.:-)
Well, I would say that it is the most dangerous situation when car stands
still after the start or the car can't get up to full speed. You sit doen in
your car and all you can do is to wait what happens behind you. You just can
pray that everyone finds a way around your car. I guess you can ask Mika
about this too.

--
Have several nice days !!!

Michael Heymanns
Team-Manager SRG

IWSC Champion 2000
IPSC GT-Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 1999
TPTCC Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 2001

www.srg-group.de
www.teamsrg.de
www.tptcc.de

1&1 Profiseller
www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791


> I agree with you here, it was too dangerous to move off his line. He had
to
> hild his line and hope others got a good view of him going slowly.

> --

> Steve Levett

> ------------------


> > Ok enough is enough: Do you really think that Schumacher would risk his
> own
> > life and the life of other drivers to get a race stopped? If you really
> > think this than we don't have to discuss anymore, because this is just
> > ridiculous and stupid.

> > If you have a look at the pictures you'll see that Michael was already
in
> > the middle of the street at the start and the cars were flying on both
> sides
> > around him. Lucaiano Burti wasn't able to see Michael, because of a car
in
> > front of him and that's the reason why he hit Michael. After Michael
> stepped
> > out of the car the first thing he has done was to ask Burti if
everything
> > was alright with him. The next thing was that he walked back to the
pits,
> > slowly, because he thought the safety car would come out and his race
was
> > over and out. As he noticed that the race was stopped he started to run
> back
> > to his crew to get in the T-Car.

> > It would have been much more dangerous if Michael would have tried to go
> to
> > the outside or inside. BTW, why are drivers trying to take their car
back
> to
> > the pits even when the engine has blown up and oil is running on the
> track?
> > In qualify was someone on the track (Jarno Trulli), trying to drive the
> car
> > back to the pits and he has chosen the best line to do it. Rubens
> > Barrichello wasn't very happy about this and he has shown the driver
about
> > his feelings.

> > It seems whenever Michael does something, it's wrong - no matter what he
> > does. Why do you people have such a problem with him? Ayrton Senna
wasn't
> an
> > angel too, but he is known as the best driver in the world. He has done
> some
> > stupid things in his career too, but it seems in Michael's case
everything
> > is stupid.
> > He IS the best driver in the moment and if you have a problem to deal
with
> > it I can't help you. You don't have to like him, but is it too much to
ask
> > for a little respect? Well, it seems it is.
> > Have you ever talked with Michael Schumacher? Have you ever seen him in
> > private? All I can say that he is a great driver and that I don't know
> > enough of the person Michael Schumacher to make my own judgement about
> him.
> > Why is it so difficult to respect one of the most succesful drivers in
the
> > history of F1. It seems there are the same problems with Jeff Gordon in
> > NASCAR. Are they just too succesful?

> > --
> > Have several nice days !!!

> > Michael Heymanns
> > Team-Manager SRG

> > IWSC Champion 2000
> > IPSC GT-Champion 2000
> > TPTCC Champion 1999
> > TPTCC Champion 2000
> > TPTCC Champion 2001

> > www.srg-group.de
> > www.teamsrg.de
> > www.tptcc.de

> > 1&1 Profiseller
> > www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791


> > > Agree that they needed to red flag the race, way too much debris on
> > > the track. But did you see how MS turned his car onto the middle of
> > > the track? He was headed for the gravel, then turned hard right to end
> > > up in the middle of the track. Obviously an attempt to get the race
> > > red-flagged which didn't work, because they moved his car fairly
> > > quickly. He was lucky that enough debris was spread to bring out the
> > > red flags.

> > > On another point, why didn't he drive right off the track when he
> > > stopped the second time? Very strange thing to do when there's so much
> > > grassed area available.

> > > Rafe Mc


> > > >Of course, there are some(including myself) who are upset that Mika
> > wasn't
> > > >given the advantage of a red flag to get in the backup car... :(
> > > >Granted, I agree the flag should have been thrown today.  But, it
> should
> > also
> > > >have been thrown earlier this season...

> > > >Eldred

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zed, not z

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by zed, not z » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 01:51:00

On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 05:42:42 GMT, "Gault"


>No, it's more like we bought it and import the players.  :-)

>(And it's 'zee'!)

Next you'll be telling me americans invented basketball.
Michael Heymann

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Michael Heymann » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 01:42:18

Oh and you are right: It was always dangerous to drive in front of Senna:
Ask Nigel Mansell about it or Alain Prost.

As Mario has written before: If you have seen his first races in F1 in the
Toleman-Hart and especially in the more competitive Lotus-Honda you just
have to say that Ayrton has made stupid things at the start of his career
and during his first years and that he was very aggressive in his kind of
driving - too aggressive for a lot of people.
But Ayrton is a hero and Michael is the bad boy.

BTW, Heidfeld made a superb start at Hockenheim in his Sauber and he has
passed one of the McLaren's, but unfortunatly foor him the race was stopped.
After the restart he was crashed out by Pedro de la Rosa who was much too
late on the brakes. Why wasn't the race stopped after that aciident? I mean:
Heidfeld is also a german. Oh I see, his name is not Schumacher.:-))))

And one more thing: I think the whole world-championship is a total desaster
after Eddie Jordan has fired HHF - my favourite driver. No, I do not say
that he is the best driver, he is just the driver I like the most.

--
Have several nice days !!!

Michael Heymanns
Team-Manager SRG

IWSC Champion 2000
IPSC GT-Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 1999
TPTCC Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 2001

www.srg-group.de
www.teamsrg.de
www.tptcc.de

1&1 Profiseller
www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791




> > It seems whenever Michael does something, it's wrong - no matter what he
> > does. Why do you people have such a problem with him? Ayrton Senna
wasn't
> an
> > angel too, but he is known as the best driver in the world. He has done
> some
> > stupid things in his career too, but it seems in Michael's case
everything
> > is stupid.
> > He IS the best driver in the moment and if you have a problem to deal
with
> > it I can't help you. You don't have to like him, but is it too much to
ask
> > for a little respect? Well, it seems it is.
> > Have you ever talked with Michael Schumacher? Have you ever seen him in
> > private? All I can say that he is a great driver and that I don't know
> > enough of the person Michael Schumacher to make my own judgement about
> him.
> > Why is it so difficult to respect one of the most succesful drivers in
the
> > history of F1. It seems there are the same problems with Jeff Gordon in
> > NASCAR. Are they just too succesful?

>         It looks like people who like Ayrton Senna are very young and
didn't
> actualy watched F1 when Senna began. F1 was a first class noble sport.
> Drivers liked to think about themselfs as gentelmens, and acted like that.
> Then came Senna. He was most arrogant driver F1 has ever seen. Nobody
> liked him. It was allways dangerous to drive in front of him. He simply
ran
> into everybody. When he cuoldn't overtake with his driving ability, and
that
> was most of the time, he used brute force. The rael drivers couldn't stand
> it, and were disgusted with that. The real drivers used driving bravoures
> like MS is doing today. But in those days young drivers stayed away if
they
> hadn't experience to answer to that. Didn't just run into good drivers
back
> like thay run into MS's back today.
>         BTW, Senna cannot be the best driver in the world if he is less
> succesful than MS, but drove in better cars than MS is driveing today. It
> simply isn't logical.
>         BTW (2), Senna had only 41 wins out of 65 poles. Second number
> usualy tells you about cars ability. Diference between second and first
> tells you about drivers ability. It is -24, and by far the worst of all
> drivers. MS have 50 wins out of 40 poles. That's +10.
>         BTW (3), Senna realy is the best driver in rain.

Gaul

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Gaul » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 02:05:08

Truth hurts, doesn't it?  Canada- the land of fewer and fewer NHL teams.  A
shame imo.

Steve Levet

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Steve Levet » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 02:31:05

And baseball as well, hehe

--

Steve Levett

------------------


> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 05:42:42 GMT, "Gault"

> >No, it's more like we bought it and import the players.  :-)

> >(And it's 'zee'!)

> Next you'll be telling me americans invented basketball.

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Steve Levet

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Steve Levet » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 02:33:08

No, it wouldn't have been stopped for Ralf, just Michael. :)

--

Steve Levett

------------------

> Oh and you are right: It was always dangerous to drive in front of Senna:
> Ask Nigel Mansell about it or Alain Prost.

> As Mario has written before: If you have seen his first races in F1 in the
> Toleman-Hart and especially in the more competitive Lotus-Honda you just
> have to say that Ayrton has made stupid things at the start of his career
> and during his first years and that he was very aggressive in his kind of
> driving - too aggressive for a lot of people.
> But Ayrton is a hero and Michael is the bad boy.

> BTW, Heidfeld made a superb start at Hockenheim in his Sauber and he has
> passed one of the McLaren's, but unfortunatly foor him the race was
stopped.
> After the restart he was crashed out by Pedro de la Rosa who was much too
> late on the brakes. Why wasn't the race stopped after that aciident? I
mean:
> Heidfeld is also a german. Oh I see, his name is not Schumacher.:-))))

> And one more thing: I think the whole world-championship is a total
desaster
> after Eddie Jordan has fired HHF - my favourite driver. No, I do not say
> that he is the best driver, he is just the driver I like the most.

> --
> Have several nice days !!!

> Michael Heymanns
> Team-Manager SRG

> IWSC Champion 2000
> IPSC GT-Champion 2000
> TPTCC Champion 1999
> TPTCC Champion 2000
> TPTCC Champion 2001

> www.srg-group.de
> www.teamsrg.de
> www.tptcc.de

> 1&1 Profiseller
> www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791




> > > It seems whenever Michael does something, it's wrong - no matter what
he
> > > does. Why do you people have such a problem with him? Ayrton Senna
> wasn't
> > an
> > > angel too, but he is known as the best driver in the world. He has
done
> > some
> > > stupid things in his career too, but it seems in Michael's case
> everything
> > > is stupid.
> > > He IS the best driver in the moment and if you have a problem to deal
> with
> > > it I can't help you. You don't have to like him, but is it too much to
> ask
> > > for a little respect? Well, it seems it is.
> > > Have you ever talked with Michael Schumacher? Have you ever seen him
in
> > > private? All I can say that he is a great driver and that I don't know
> > > enough of the person Michael Schumacher to make my own judgement about
> > him.
> > > Why is it so difficult to respect one of the most succesful drivers in
> the
> > > history of F1. It seems there are the same problems with Jeff Gordon
in
> > > NASCAR. Are they just too succesful?

> >         It looks like people who like Ayrton Senna are very young and
> didn't
> > actualy watched F1 when Senna began. F1 was a first class noble sport.
> > Drivers liked to think about themselfs as gentelmens, and acted like
that.
> > Then came Senna. He was most arrogant driver F1 has ever seen. Nobody
> > liked him. It was allways dangerous to drive in front of him. He simply
> ran
> > into everybody. When he cuoldn't overtake with his driving ability, and
> that
> > was most of the time, he used brute force. The rael drivers couldn't
stand
> > it, and were disgusted with that. The real drivers used driving
bravoures
> > like MS is doing today. But in those days young drivers stayed away if
> they
> > hadn't experience to answer to that. Didn't just run into good drivers
> back
> > like thay run into MS's back today.
> >         BTW, Senna cannot be the best driver in the world if he is less
> > succesful than MS, but drove in better cars than MS is driveing today.
It
> > simply isn't logical.
> >         BTW (2), Senna had only 41 wins out of 65 poles. Second number
> > usualy tells you about cars ability. Diference between second and first
> > tells you about drivers ability. It is -24, and by far the worst of all
> > drivers. MS have 50 wins out of 40 poles. That's +10.
> >         BTW (3), Senna realy is the best driver in rain.

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redTe

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by redTe » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 02:44:01



Hey smarty-pants. How many people does China have ? Squillions more than the
US, and they love football ! Are they dominating ? I would also expect their
athletes are trained to an exceptional limit and what are they good at ?
Table tennis and diving.

Brian McLean

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Brian McLean » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 02:54:50


> So eh... how many American athletes have

> And what about the pole vault, the shot put, etc.... ?

So you don't consider winning a combined 2 Golds, 2 Silvers, a Bronze
and a fourth at those events (pole vault, shot put) in Sydney to be
"dominating"? ;-)

Brian McLeaney

Joachim Trens

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Joachim Trens » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 02:53:08

Hi Steve,

quoting Coulthard and Villeneuve as arguments against a restart is about the
same as using the fact that Schumi and Burti were in favour of a restart as
an argument _for_ a restart ;-)

Achim


Mario Petrinovi

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Mario Petrinovi » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 03:03:56

        You can compare.

        1) Benetton was nothing before MS came
        2) Benneton is nothing after MS left
        3) Ferrari was nothing before MS came

        Short: every middleclass team with MS is good.

        1) Damon Hill was nothing before and after Williams
        2) Nigel Mansell was nothing before and after Williams
        3) Jacques Villeneuve was nothing before and after Williams
        4) Mika Hakkinen was nothing before McLaren

        Short: in a top team even a test driver can became world
chanpion

        BTW, you could count more driver errors in one race of
Ayrton Senna then in MS's (or Lauda's - two top drivers I had
 privilege to watch) whole career.


zed, not z

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by zed, not z » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 03:13:19

On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 17:05:08 GMT, "Gault"


>Truth hurts, doesn't it?  Canada- the land of fewer and fewer NHL teams.  A
>shame imo.

Yea, truth is that basketball is also a canadian game. :-)
Gerry Aitke

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Gerry Aitke » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 03:21:00


> 2) Nigel Mansell was nothing before and after Williams

Oh dear!... I see we didn't use all of Mr Brain while compiling our
list, did you!

Gerry

David Ewin

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by David Ewin » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 03:21:41


> I agree with JV who is one of the real racers unlike Coultard, Brundle etc.
> (never heard of Surer) It was safer to use the pace car than to redo the
> most dangerous part of the race.

How about the 1997 Brazilian Grand Prix when Jacques crashed at the first turn
and they red-flagged the start, even though his car was completely off the
track?  Was that the right decision?  In last year's Austrian Grand Prix when
Schumacher was shunted off the track on the first lap in a similar situation,
they didn't red-flag it (nor at last year's Hockenheim race).  Yes, it is
sometimes inconsistent, but to say that these decisions are just for the
benefit of Schumacher is just plain silly and can be easily refuted by looking
at the record.  Given the huge amount of razor-sharp carbon fibre debris that
was spread all over the track, this was clearly the right call. Plus, I
seriously doubt that the FIA wants to see the championship wrapped up by the
Hungarian Grand Prix.  That would certainly not help them in attracting TV
viewers.

But, hey, after every single race, the anti-Schumacher contingent comes out of
the woodwork to put some spin on the race to further their obsession.

Dave Ewing

> ----
> *****************************************************
> David A. Ewing

> *****************************************************

Gaul

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Gaul » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 03:43:51



> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 17:05:08 GMT, "Gault"

> >Truth hurts, doesn't it?  Canada- the land of fewer and fewer NHL teams.
A
> >shame imo.

> Yea, truth is that basketball is also a canadian game. :-)

Wish you guys had kept it.  I'm far more grateful for your hockey exports.
:-)
Jan Verschuere

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Jan Verschuere » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 03:53:19

Ooops, bad examples I guess... ;-)

I *naturally* assumed those fields were still being dominated by former
Soviet countries... didn't check, my mistake. You did conveniently snip the
marathons (which I did check as they were easy to find), Boston not since 83
and New York not since '88 (and even in '87 the guy had a funny name to be
representing New Mexico ;-))

Jan.
=---


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