rec.autos.simulators

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

JM

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by JM » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 07:59:27


There were a decent handful of cars that I noticed sat on the grid getting
wheels (tyres) changed also.  Yet more evidence that the cautious approach
due to the risk of carbon fibre in the tyres was the correct approach.

John

Jim Seamu

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Jim Seamu » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:13:18


Actually I think they were under yellows then, so overtaking was banned, and
Juan Pablo in front was dictating the maximum speed of the entire pack.

Mario Petrinovi

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Mario Petrinovi » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:14:58



> > 2) Nigel Mansell was nothing before and after Williams

> Oh dear!... I see we didn't use all of Mr Brain while compiling our
> list, did you!

> Gerry

                         Example 1: Nigel Mansell

        a) without Williams :

1980 > F2    12th
1981-84   NM is in Lotus-Ford, teammate to Elio de Angelis
1981>Nigel Mansell         14th      8 points
          Elio de Angelis         8th    14 points
1982>Nigel Mansell         14th      7 points
          Elio de Angelis         9th    23 points
1983>Nigel Mansell   12-13th    10 points
          Elio de Angelis         8th    15 points
1984>Lotus gets Renault engine and Elio de Angelis is much
faster, but not NM
          Nigel Mansell     9-10th    13 points
          Elio de Angelis        3rd    34 points
1989>Ferrari
          Nigel Mansell          4th    38 points
          Gerhard Berger       7th    21 points
1990>Ferrari
          Nigel Mansell          5th    37 points
          Alain Prost              2nd   73 points

    I don't see world champion here. But look further

        b) with Williams :

1985-87    Honda engine ( from end of 85 that was the
most powerfull combination )
1985>Nigel Mansell          6th    31 points
          Keke Rosberg         3rd    40 points
1986>Frank Williams wonts English champion but NM
didn't succeed
          Nigel Mansell          2nd    72 points
          Nelson Piquet          3rd    69 points
1987>Frank Williams alows NP more freedom this time
          Nigel Mansell          2nd    61 points
          Nelson Piquet     Champ   76 points
          (his only championship in a superior car-of 3 )
1988>Williams lost Honda engine and gets Judd
          Nigel Mansell     9-10th    12 points
          Riccardo Patrese   11th      8 points
1991-92 Frank Williams had another go with NM
1991>Williams-Renault
          Nigel Mansell          2nd    72 points
          Riccardo Patrese     3rd    53 points
1992>Williams-Renault
          Nigel Mansell     Champ  108 points
          Riccardo Patrese     2nd    56 points

What a diferent picture. In 6 years 3 times 2nd and one
championship.

        c) after Williams - NM disappears from F1

Ronald Stoeh

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Ronald Stoeh » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:26:08


> What's funny? Everything I said is true.

> We don't have a large population? 270 million.

> We don't have a mix of different types of athletes? Ever heard of America
> being called a "melting pot"?

> Our athletes don't receive the highest level of training? Does Denmark train
> their athletes better than thye do in the U.S.?

Check out the medal distribution of recent olympics or any other truly world
wide sport event. I don't see a trend justifying your claim...

Man, those black helicopters are annoying, aren't they? ;)

--
l8er
ronny

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?

Ronald Stoeh

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Ronald Stoeh » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:43:02


snip

> And one more thing: I think the whole world-championship is a total desaster
> after Eddie Jordan has fired HHF - my favourite driver. No, I do not say
> that he is the best driver, he is just the driver I like the most.

And somehow I really enjoyed how well Jordan did this weekend... ;)

--
l8er
ronny

Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
to take effect. Reboot now?

David G Fishe

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by David G Fishe » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:51:50

If you want to be "popular" around here, you can't give facts. You must tell
them what they want to hear.

David G Fisher





> > > 2) Nigel Mansell was nothing before and after Williams

> > Oh dear!... I see we didn't use all of Mr Brain while compiling our
> > list, did you!

> > Gerry

>                          Example 1: Nigel Mansell

>         a) without Williams :

> 1980 > F2    12th
> 1981-84   NM is in Lotus-Ford, teammate to Elio de Angelis
> 1981>Nigel Mansell         14th      8 points
>           Elio de Angelis         8th    14 points
> 1982>Nigel Mansell         14th      7 points
>           Elio de Angelis         9th    23 points
> 1983>Nigel Mansell   12-13th    10 points
>           Elio de Angelis         8th    15 points
> 1984>Lotus gets Renault engine and Elio de Angelis is much
> faster, but not NM
>           Nigel Mansell     9-10th    13 points
>           Elio de Angelis        3rd    34 points
> 1989>Ferrari
>           Nigel Mansell          4th    38 points
>           Gerhard Berger       7th    21 points
> 1990>Ferrari
>           Nigel Mansell          5th    37 points
>           Alain Prost              2nd   73 points

>     I don't see world champion here. But look further

>         b) with Williams :

> 1985-87    Honda engine ( from end of 85 that was the
> most powerfull combination )
> 1985>Nigel Mansell          6th    31 points
>           Keke Rosberg         3rd    40 points
> 1986>Frank Williams wonts English champion but NM
> didn't succeed
>           Nigel Mansell          2nd    72 points
>           Nelson Piquet          3rd    69 points
> 1987>Frank Williams alows NP more freedom this time
>           Nigel Mansell          2nd    61 points
>           Nelson Piquet     Champ   76 points
>           (his only championship in a superior car-of 3 )
> 1988>Williams lost Honda engine and gets Judd
>           Nigel Mansell     9-10th    12 points
>           Riccardo Patrese   11th      8 points
> 1991-92 Frank Williams had another go with NM
> 1991>Williams-Renault
>           Nigel Mansell          2nd    72 points
>           Riccardo Patrese     3rd    53 points
> 1992>Williams-Renault
>           Nigel Mansell     Champ  108 points
>           Riccardo Patrese     2nd    56 points

> What a diferent picture. In 6 years 3 times 2nd and one
> championship.

>         c) after Williams - NM disappears from F1

Jim Seamu

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Jim Seamu » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:50:10

Considering that we're talking F1, Mario's statistics seem pretty
convincing.

For the record, I liked watching Mansell race but I never supported him or
disliked him

Jim S





> > > 2) Nigel Mansell was nothing before and after Williams

> > Oh dear!... I see we didn't use all of Mr Brain while compiling our
> > list, did you!

> > Gerry

>                          Example 1: Nigel Mansell

>         a) without Williams :

> 1980 > F2    12th
> 1981-84   NM is in Lotus-Ford, teammate to Elio de Angelis
> 1981>Nigel Mansell         14th      8 points
>           Elio de Angelis         8th    14 points
> 1982>Nigel Mansell         14th      7 points
>           Elio de Angelis         9th    23 points
> 1983>Nigel Mansell   12-13th    10 points
>           Elio de Angelis         8th    15 points
> 1984>Lotus gets Renault engine and Elio de Angelis is much
> faster, but not NM
>           Nigel Mansell     9-10th    13 points
>           Elio de Angelis        3rd    34 points
> 1989>Ferrari
>           Nigel Mansell          4th    38 points
>           Gerhard Berger       7th    21 points
> 1990>Ferrari
>           Nigel Mansell          5th    37 points
>           Alain Prost              2nd   73 points

>     I don't see world champion here. But look further

>         b) with Williams :

> 1985-87    Honda engine ( from end of 85 that was the
> most powerfull combination )
> 1985>Nigel Mansell          6th    31 points
>           Keke Rosberg         3rd    40 points
> 1986>Frank Williams wonts English champion but NM
> didn't succeed
>           Nigel Mansell          2nd    72 points
>           Nelson Piquet          3rd    69 points
> 1987>Frank Williams alows NP more freedom this time
>           Nigel Mansell          2nd    61 points
>           Nelson Piquet     Champ   76 points
>           (his only championship in a superior car-of 3 )
> 1988>Williams lost Honda engine and gets Judd
>           Nigel Mansell     9-10th    12 points
>           Riccardo Patrese   11th      8 points
> 1991-92 Frank Williams had another go with NM
> 1991>Williams-Renault
>           Nigel Mansell          2nd    72 points
>           Riccardo Patrese     3rd    53 points
> 1992>Williams-Renault
>           Nigel Mansell     Champ  108 points
>           Riccardo Patrese     2nd    56 points

> What a diferent picture. In 6 years 3 times 2nd and one
> championship.

>         c) after Williams - NM disappears from F1

Mark Seer

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Mark Seer » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:00:28


No Steve.

Race tyres usually let go in a spectacularly explosive fashion, owing to
extreme stresses and G forces imposed on them. What would usually constitute
a slow puncture in a road tyre would usually end up as a bulge before
blowing out in racing conditions.

In any case, I'd not fancy a tyre letting me down approaching a corner as
fast as T1 is at Hockenheim....

MS

> --

> Steve Levett

> ------------------


> > > I agree with JV who is one of the real racers unlike Coultard, Brundle
> > etc.
> > > (never heard of Surer) It was safer to use the pace car than to redo
the
> > > most dangerous part of the race.

> > I think you are missing the "main" reason it was stopped. If they had
> > continued, there might have been a few tires blown out from all the
carbon
> > fiber shreads they ran over. It wasn't worth the risk. In my opinion it
> was
> > a good call. A simular thing happened at last years German race,
involving
> > M. Schumacher, they didn't red flag the race then. It was far more
costly
> in
> > terms of the championship last year (to M. Schumacher), than this years
> > race, so the whole idea that it was just for Micheal doesn't make much
> sense
> > to me.

> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

ymenar

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by ymenar » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:57:40


> If you want to be "popular" around here, you can't give facts. You must
tell
> them what they want to hear.

Change your LP's side, it's skipping on the last groove.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

David G Fishe

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by David G Fishe » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:15:09

Why would I ever think guys like you would move on from those old sims? You
still haven't moved on to CD's.

David G Fisher



> > If you want to be "popular" around here, you can't give facts. You must
> tell
> > them what they want to hear.

> Change your LP's side, it's skipping on the last groove.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

David Butte

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by David Butte » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:28:44


Look at 1993, and tell me FISA weren't desperate to stop Prost winning,
because they were annoyed they couldn't get at him for his slagging
them off in 1992. Look at the official video - it's called "Senna
fights back", for heaven's sake, and is noticeably grudging in its
praise for he World Champion of '93. Nigel Roebuck remarked on this at
the time.

--
David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57; Monsters of GPL +271.79)
"After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.
Earn (not very much) money writing reviews at http://uk.ciao.com

ymenar

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by ymenar » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:07:31


> Why would I ever think guys like you would move on from those old sims?

I don't see the point of moving to other things.  I listen to old music, I
read old books, I watch old movies.  I can enjoy them as much as modern
stuff (sometimes even more).  Why would it be different with racing
simulations? I don't see the reason why a game that was raceable yesterday
is not anymore.  I still race Icr2 and Gp2.  If there is a better sim
released, I will include it in my list.  MBTR per example.

<yawn>  just lame...

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Rafe McAulif

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Rafe McAulif » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 14:35:27

On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:43:10 +0200, "Michael Heymanns"


>Ok enough is enough: Do you really think that Schumacher would risk his own
>life and the life of other drivers to get a race stopped? If you really
>think this than we don't have to discuss anymore, because this is just
>ridiculous and stupid.

Well, I wouldn't want to get a bit over the top ;)
You've misread what I said. I was talking about AFTER the crash. MS
did the only thing he could when his car was stuck in 1st, which was
to cruise along in a straight line. AFTER the crash, he was headed for
the gravel trap, which would have required the safety car for a few
laps. But instead, he turned right for as long as he could till the
car stopped in the middle of the track. Nothing about "risking life
and limb", don't be daft. The safety car HAD to come out, he knew
that. So by the time the cars came around to the accident, they would
be cruising very slowly. But he did try his best to get the race
red-flagged, only they moved his car very quickly. He was lucky that
the debris was enough to bring it out anyway.

Agreed, he did what was right in the circumstances. And obviously
concerned about Burti too (vice versa as well I'm sure). Don't agree
that he was walking slowly in the assumption that the SC would come
out though.

<other pro-MS stuff snipped>

I don't have a problem with MS, I think he is the most talented,
motivated and ambitious driver around. But the problem with being
ambitious is that he doesn't worry about what methods are needed to
get the results. Granted, he has improved since the days of taking out
both Hill and JV. But he always pulls suspect moves to get what he
wants. Add to that the fact that he has no problem with getting his
teammate to move over and let him through.

Having just said that, I must say Kudos to Ferrari for letting RB
through to pass MS. The most sensible move anyway, since MS and RB
were on different strategies, but good to see it happen anyway.

I've been an MS fan since he went to Ferrari, I think he did some
awesome things with that team in the face of adversity. But he has
become much too *** now and that's not good for the sport. Things
will even themselves out I'm sure, but I'm rooting for the underdogs
now. Go JPM!!!

Rafe Mc

Rafe McAulif

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Rafe McAulif » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 14:38:39

I'm with you on that one, pretty dumb stuff. Must've been some heavy
stuff going on behind closed doors at Jordan. Good press too, NOT!

Rafe Mc


rec.autos.simulators is a usenet newsgroup formed in December, 1993. As this group was always unmoderated there may be some spam or off topic articles included. Some links do point back to racesimcentral.net as we could not validate the original address. Please report any pages that you believe warrant deletion from this archive (include the link in your email). RaceSimCentral.net is in no way responsible and does not endorse any of the content herein.