rec.autos.simulators

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

JM

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by JM » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 05:59:41



> make them have smaller fuel
> > tanks so they have to stop 3 times a race so they will have to all pit
at
> > the same time

> Did you ever watch F1 back in the 80's?  No refueling meant drivers could
> (if they wanted) take a huge lead at the front of the race, then have to
> deal with it by driving painfully slow laps at the end, in order to save
> fuel.  The smart ones started slow, to conserve their speed for the end,
> when it counted.  *That* was tactics - and many purists wish for those
days
> to return.  More refueling?  No way...

I remember Mansell going the distance without a stop and winning the race
almost on the carcasses of his tyres.
Great stuff.

John

ymenar

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by ymenar » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 05:55:37


> When you see yourself as a stupid guy than it's your problem.
> A "normal" way to discuss is to respect other people even if they have a
> different opinion and not to call them stupid or to offend them. No, there
> is no law about it, but it is a question of education and a sense of
> decency.

LOL stop daddying me, it's too hilarious.

Freedom of speech and choice.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

ymenar

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by ymenar » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 05:54:39


> PS.: Frank: how did you manage to make that herp/herd typo? -Those keys
are
> *miles* apart on a keyboard!! (relatively speaking) <g>

Hooked on foniks workd phor me   ;-)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

ymenar

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by ymenar » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 05:56:26


> 350 million people per race watch F1. About 8 (maybe 13, can't remember
for
> sure) million per race for NASCAR. Why hasn't NASCAR amounted to more than
a
> pimple on F1's ***if it's such great racing, and F1 is so boring? I like
> CART (my interest has gone way down over the past couple of years for some
> reason), but not many people watch it.

It's not important.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

ymenar

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by ymenar » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 05:58:52


> Ferarri has a much better overal car then Williams, it's just that the BMW
> has lots of power and that shows at Hockenheim and perhaps Monza but at
> other track the Ferarri is far superior.

And Suzuka... and Indy... and Spa...

The tide has turned. (Just watch Rubhino and you'll see the Ferrari ain't
the best car anymore).

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

JM

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by JM » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:03:52


I never said any such thing. Next point.

 As for NASCAR, if you cannot appreciate the level

I never said any such thing.  Next point.

You can't have a level playing field with that kind of money.  I think that
the sport is on the upturn in terms of more competitors looking "good" for
the future.

I also engoy the Moto GPs and Superbikes, but for different reasons.

I also like rallying, however, and given that there is no overtaking
whatsoever in that sport, you have to ask what is the attraction.  With F1,
like rallying, for me, the attraction is the machines being driven at the
limit.

cheers
John

JM

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by JM » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:09:46


The current BTCC is an absolute joke.  Let's put the equivalent weight of
Konichifuji in the Astra so the others have a chance.
I'd rather watch DTM.

F1 has always been like that though, to be fair.

cheers
John

> --

> Steve Levett

> ------------------


> > All one make? You mean all cars are the same? What series are you
> referring
> > to?

> > I don't like the rules in NASCAR which enable all the cars to race in a
> > pack. It's just a show.

> > David G Fisher



> > > So you'd agree all one make racing is sad to watch?

> > > --

> > > Steve Levett

> > > ------------------


> > > > No. The artifically close racing of NASCAR is what's sad to watch.

> > > > David G Fisher


> message

> > > > > Isn't it sad he has to overdrive that badly just to be competitive
> for
> > > the
> > > > > minor places, provided the fast cars have dropped out ?

> > > > > Jan.
> > > > > =---
> > > > > "David G Fisher" wrote...
> > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > You didn't catch Alesi going through one of the chicanes
> > > > > > on the second to last lap at Hockenheim, did you? It almost
> > > > > > looked like he was moving at 2x speed because he was
> > > > > > *** the wheel back and forth so quickly. It was
> > > > > > actually kind of funny looking.

> > > > > > David G Fisher

> > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/ - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> > > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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David G Fishe

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by David G Fishe » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:26:09

You had football in quotation marks, and since your from Britain, I was
guessing you take some offense (many non-Americans do for some reason) to
it's being used to name another sport.

I do have a simple answer for your question. I follow every area (offense,
defense, special teams, coaching strategy, weather effect) of an NFL game,
and I follow all areas of an F1 race.

David G Fisher


JM

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by JM » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:19:57


> On the other hand, while it's fun watching the battle for 10th, it's a
> surrogate, because kudos aside winning it doesn't help any of the
> participants one iota.

Every position counts, more or less.  It's not just about championship
points, important though they are.

I think the gap is closing.  At the beginning of the season, nobody would
have put serious money on Williams being so competetive at certain tracks.
When you have a team with a great engine, vs a team with a great chassis,
that's when the differences can really shine.
I think next year there will be even more competition for the championships.

Soon we will have another minor "war" between Arrows and Jaguar, both
running the Cosworth engine, like the BAR/Jordan contest currently.

John

JM

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by JM » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:24:14


It was every other bleeding lap! They spent most of it under yellows.  It
was a complete disgrace and had no business being called a motor race.

Likewise.  I'll have my opinion, based on what I have seen. Or do I have to
put IMO against everything so you can get the message?

John

Jan Verschuere

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Jan Verschuere » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 09:19:22

Excuse me? -so you never posted the following?

<quote>
  I watched a CART round (Canada- Molson) and saw a
  bunch of yahoos punting each other off the road in
  second rate machinery.
</quote>

And you also did not utter the following in the same post?

<quote>
  I watched the Daytona 400 NASCAR, and watched 40
  or so anonymous 3rd rate saloon cars trundling
  round (actual speeds may be high, but relative
  speeds are almost identical- snorefest), sure
  they didn't stay in the same order, big deal, I
  can watch cars overtake all day long on the M1
  motorway, doesn't make it exciting.
</quote>

<sarcasm> In that case I apologise unreservedly. </sarcasm>

Perhaps, I must admit I have an instinctive dislike to the attitude towards
money (as if it were something to revered in itself, rather than a means to
an end) in F1 hangers-on circles. Don't get me wrong I don't mind
manufacturers and teams spending a fortune in an effort to go fast and I do
not begrudge the people who actually contribute to the race effort their
paycheck, I'm just sure I could never get along with anyone who believes
it's glamourous to hang around in this "world".

I also don't mind the FIA/Ecclestone handing out financial support on the
basis of merit, dangling a carrot as it were. I just question the wisdom of
dangling the carrot a mile in front of the donkey.

I am very much aware in today's image driven market, nobody likes to see
their cars lose. However, to take it to a point where it becomes a matter of
outspending the other competitor in an attempt to reduce the risk of that
happening, I think you've crossed a certain line where sport and innovation
take a back seat.

If and when Renault, BAR, Jaguar, perhaps Arrows and Toyota manage to
produce a more or less competitive effort and the FIA shows the good sense
to leave the rules alone for a while (to allow the technology to filter
down), we might see something resembling my idea of what F1 should be like.
Given that McLaren, Ferrari, Williams, Sauber and Jordan (though the
commitment of the latter may be questioned) won't be presenting themselves
as sitting ducks either, I don't see it happening any time soon unless the
FIA accept the people employed by those teams are way smarter than the spods
they got working on the "make 'm slower/safer"-rules.

That one will need some explaining...

That's simple to answer... it's several orders of magnitude more clear in
rallying the drivers do things with cars us mere mortals can never hope to
acchieve.

Hmmmm... then how come you call stock cars (NASCAR) being driven at the
limit boring?

Jan.
=---

Wayne Hutchiso

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Wayne Hutchiso » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 09:46:35

Like Senna did in Detroit I believe. I think he was the only one that didn't
make a pit stop that day. He couldn't have had much tire left at the end.

Wayne Hutchison





> > make them have smaller fuel
> > > tanks so they have to stop 3 times a race so they will have to all pit
> at
> > > the same time

> > Did you ever watch F1 back in the 80's?  No refueling meant drivers
could
> > (if they wanted) take a huge lead at the front of the race, then have to
> > deal with it by driving painfully slow laps at the end, in order to save
> > fuel.  The smart ones started slow, to conserve their speed for the end,
> > when it counted.  *That* was tactics - and many purists wish for those
> days
> > to return.  More refueling?  No way...

> I remember Mansell going the distance without a stop and winning the race
> almost on the carcasses of his tyres.
> Great stuff.

> John

Wayne Hutchiso

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Wayne Hutchiso » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 09:51:53

produce a more or less competitive effort and the FIA shows the good sense
to leave the rules alone for a while (to allow the technology to filter
down) <<

What do you think of the idea of allowing teams to sell their year-old cars
to other teams? I think this could allow a bunch more teams into F1 (which
of course isn't possible under the current Concorde agreement) and might
make for some very interesting combinations on the track <G>.

Wayne Hutchison

David G Fishe

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by David G Fishe » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 10:01:56


I'm sure us mere mortals could drive a modern F1 car with any degree of
success either. I'm very confident I would have a much easier time with a
rally car.

The cars are like boats with wheels, and the limit is reached on the same
two turns lap after lap. I fired up the N4 demo the other day and couldn't
keep awake after 15 laps.

David G Fisher

Thom j

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Thom j » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 12:05:32

"O" come'on Fran?ois!! We all know you are the classic
"eeebonics" graduate.. hahahaha :o)~

| Hooked on foniks workd phor me   ;-)
| --
| -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>


| > PS.: Frank: how did you manage to make that herp/herd typo? -Those keys
| are
| > *miles* apart on a keyboard!! (relatively speaking) <g>

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