rec.autos.simulators

by **Steve Levet** » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:27:37

So you'd agree all one make racing is sad to watch?

--

Steve Levett

------------------

> No. The artifically close racing of NASCAR is what's sad to watch.

> David G Fisher

> > Isn't it sad he has to overdrive that badly just to be competitive for
the
> > minor places, provided the fast cars have dropped out ?

> > Jan.
> > =---
> > "David G Fisher" wrote...
> > > <snip>
> > > You didn't catch Alesi going through one of the chicanes
> > > on the second to last lap at Hockenheim, did you? It almost
> > > looked like he was moving at 2x speed because he was
> > > *** the wheel back and forth so quickly. It was
> > > actually kind of funny looking.

> > > David G Fisher

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by **Jan Verschuere** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 09:29:44

True, but it doesn't depend on the level of technology/money involved.

CART may be in trouble with regard to attendance/coverage/driving talent and
what not; NASCAR may be overcommercialised. But, currently, I find F1 to be
an abomination of itself.

I mean, having the pick of the brightest lights in motorracing, what has
become of a racing series when talent no longer suffises to surmount
circumstance?

Jan.
=---
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

by **briGu** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:10:06

make them have smaller fuel

Did you ever watch F1 back in the 80's? No refueling meant drivers could
(if they wanted) take a huge lead at the front of the race, then have to
deal with it by driving painfully slow laps at the end, in order to save
fuel. The smart ones started slow, to conserve their speed for the end,
when it counted. *That* was tactics - and many purists wish for those days
to return. More refueling? No way...

by **David G Fishe** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:09:49

All one make? You mean all cars are the same? What series are you referring
to?

I don't like the rules in NASCAR which enable all the cars to race in a
pack. It's just a show.

David G Fisher

> So you'd agree all one make racing is sad to watch?

> --

> Steve Levett

> ------------------

> > No. The artifically close racing of NASCAR is what's sad to watch.

> > David G Fisher

> > > Isn't it sad he has to overdrive that badly just to be competitive for
> the
> > > minor places, provided the fast cars have dropped out ?

> > > Jan.
> > > =---
> > > "David G Fisher" wrote...
> > > > <snip>
> > > > You didn't catch Alesi going through one of the chicanes
> > > > on the second to last lap at Hockenheim, did you? It almost
> > > > looked like he was moving at 2x speed because he was
> > > > *** the wheel back and forth so quickly. It was
> > > > actually kind of funny looking.

> > > > David G Fisher

> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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by **Steve Levet** » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:23:19

It's the same as one make (formula ford, formula audi etc) racing where in
some formulas you're not allowed to change gear ratios, modify suspension so
the best drivers come through to win etc.

"just a show" and a damn good one, TOCA do the same by adding ballast to
winning cars to keep the racing close. I would much rather see 25 cars
finish within 2 secs than someone win by 40 secs with 3 cars on the lead
lap.

Unless youre in a Ferarri, Mclaren or a Williams you will not win an F1 race
no matter how good you drive. Put MS in a Jordan and he wouldnt win a race
all season. That's not what racings about.

--

Steve Levett

------------------

> All one make? You mean all cars are the same? What series are you
referring
> to?

> I don't like the rules in NASCAR which enable all the cars to race in a
> pack. It's just a show.

> David G Fisher

> > So you'd agree all one make racing is sad to watch?

> > --

> > Steve Levett

> > ------------------

> > > No. The artifically close racing of NASCAR is what's sad to watch.

> > > David G Fisher

message

> > > > Isn't it sad he has to overdrive that badly just to be competitive
for
> > the
> > > > minor places, provided the fast cars have dropped out ?

> > > > Jan.
> > > > =---
> > > > "David G Fisher" wrote...
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > > You didn't catch Alesi going through one of the chicanes
> > > > > on the second to last lap at Hockenheim, did you? It almost
> > > > > looked like he was moving at 2x speed because he was
> > > > > *** the wheel back and forth so quickly. It was
> > > > > actually kind of funny looking.

> > > > > David G Fisher

> > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/ - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> > -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

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by **David G Fishe** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:34:06

What era are you referring to in F1 where all the cars were equal, and only
talent decided who won each, very close race in which the whole field were
neck and neck at the finish?

I think you've got an idea in your head about what your watching in current
F1, and you won't let go of it. MS and RB drive the Ferrari's, yet MS always
comes out ahead. That's an example of talent overcoming circumstance. RS is
outperforming JM. MH and DC go back and forth. Talent levels show through.
How many drivers do you think should be battling for the win each week? If
MS had retired last year, you'd probably have at least six drivers who'd
have equal chances of winning almost any race this season. That's more than
a quarter of the field.

I find the battles farther back in the field as fun to keep track of as
those in front. You just focus on who wins. I can't stand the thought of all
cars being equal in F1. I want a series which has the world's greatest cars
with the world's best drivers. That's F1. I absolutely love NFL football,
but can't force myself to watch a quarter of college football because it's
second best.

David G Fisher

by **Thom j** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:10:58

I miss those "tactics -" too but I still watch all motorsports
no matter who, what or where, When? well not into looking
at old footage anymore, I'd rather puter sim-race then!! :)

| Did you ever watch F1 back in the 80's? No refueling meant drivers could
| (if they wanted) take a huge lead at the front of the race, then have to
| deal with it by driving painfully slow laps at the end, in order to save
| fuel. The smart ones started slow, to conserve their speed for the end,
| when it counted. *That* was tactics - and many purists wish for those
days
| to return. More refueling? No way...

---
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by **Eldre** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:20:54

writes:

Michael, it's simple, really. David and Frank don't like each other. That
tends to cloud any discussion they have together...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:20:53

writes:

Wow - I never knew that, and I'm American...<g>
Thanks.

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:20:54

>There are much closer finishes in CART and NASCAR, usually under a couple of
>seconds. Most people I know watch the 1st corner in F1 and then do some
>work, surf the net etc and have the TV on in the backround.

Whoa...I thought I was the only one who did that...?<g>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:20:55

>Any why do you hate Michael? He is without doubt the most naturally gifted
>grand prix driver out there. Damon Hill didn't have it, Mika Hakkinen
>DEFINATELY doesn't have it, but he does. Montoya does. Ralf doesn't.
>Coulthard doesn't. Barrichello doesn't. Anybody who saw him in testing at
>Maranello back in '98 will justify that. Lap after lap going as sideways as
>possible. The shots are amazing.

Who are you responding to? You didn't quote anyone for a reference...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 12:20:54

writes:

Ok, I'll give you the World Series<g>. But the basketball winners are called
the NBA Champions, and the football winners are called Super Bowl Champions. I
don't see "World" mentioned in those two...

I don't follow soccer enough to know about that... :-)

Eldred

--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Mario Petrinovi** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:21:08

Only a small percent of them are racing fans. The rest just watch
money. Put so much money in a fishing competition and 350 million people
will watch fishing.

> > There are much closer finishes in CART and NASCAR, usually under a
couple
> of
> > seconds. Most people I know watch the 1st corner in F1 and then do some
> > work, surf the net etc and have the TV on in the backround.

> 350 million people per race watch F1. About 8 (maybe 13, can't remember
for
> sure) million per race for NASCAR. Why hasn't NASCAR amounted to more than
a
> pimple on F1's ***if it's such great racing, and F1 is so boring? I like
> CART (my interest has gone way down over the past couple of years for some
> reason), but not many people watch it.

> David G Fisher

by **Michael Heymann** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 13:55:22

When you see yourself as a stupid guy than it's your problem.
A "normal" way to discuss is to respect other people even if they have a
different opinion and not to call them stupid or to offend them. No, there
is no law about it, but it is a question of education and a sense of
decency.

And if it is a problem between the two of us why are you posting those
things at the newsgroup for the public?

--
Have several nice days !!!

Michael Heymanns
Team-Manager SRG

IWSC Champion 2000
IPSC GT-Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 1999
TPTCC Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 2001

www.srg-group.de
www.teamsrg.de
www.tptcc.de

1&1 Profiseller
www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791

> > Why are you always shouting at each other that the other one is stupid?

> Because I do.

> > Can't you discuss in a normal way?

> There's a new official law that states what is normal and what is not in a
> discussion?

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Mark Seer** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 07:43:14

It was a reasoned discussion to a degree David. That is, before you started
drawing assumptions !!

MS

rec.autos.simulators

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