rec.autos.simulators

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

Jone

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Jone » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:49:06

"Put MS in a Jordan and he wouldnt win a race all season"?  Those are
brave, and I would suggest slightly misguided words.

Schuey may be in one of the best sorted and reliable cars out there
(although the FW23 seems quicker), but you can't honestly be
suggesting he wouldn't be competitive, even in a Jordan?

I can't help of think of Moss dominating at Monaco in a car 30 bhp
down on everyone else...

Gunnar Horrigm

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Gunnar Horrigm » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 17:09:14


> There are much closer finishes in CART and NASCAR, usually under a couple of
> seconds. Most people I know watch the 1st corner in F1 and then do some
> work, surf the net etc and have the TV on in the backround.

if you think a couple of secons is close, you should watch some bike
racing.  in WSB and Moto GP it's not uncommon to resort to
photo-finishes.  well, okay, it's not exactly common either, but
still...

--
Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
               "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"

Jan Verschuere

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Jan Verschuere » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:55:50

True, F1 has always been about "the edge", no question. Cars having an edge
at certain tracks and performing slightly poorer on others has always
happened. Seems to me though that in current F1 those differences are
exaggerated. Example: at Silverstone both Williams suffered to the tune of
1.7s in qualifying. A driver can make up for a couple of tenths at most in
the current, competitive field, 1.7s is beyond the scope of even RS and JPM.
Track and (dry!) weather conditions making monkeys out of two talented
drivers and the fastest car in the field. That didn't used to happen IIRC.

Could be my imagination, but the outcome of many F1 races appears to be a
forgone conclusion. Once the grid is known and the first couple of laps
reveal the respective fuel strategies I find myself deciding on "the
*** driver/team of the week" and watch in amazement as most of the time
the other teams don't seem able to take the fight to them. Our local
commentators try to jazz things up by conveniently forgetting driver X
hasn't pitted yet or speculating on another stop by *** driver Y when
clearly that's not how it's going to happen.

That said, Hockenheim had the potential to deliver a race, but technical
gremlins decided otherwise.

The only true comparison is the team comparison... yes, I know. But I don't
need to watch 17 GP's to know MS is a better driver than RB. DC and MH... I
don't know whether it really goes back and forth or whether MH lets his
guard down and then wakes up when DC starts to get on top.

Ok, I might be operating under a misconception of what F1 should be like.
Perhaps I expect too much. Tell me what I should reasonably expect from F1.

More than one.

I'm not saying MS is not an exceptional talent, I'm just saying the others
are not *that* bad they couldn't occasionally touch him.

Huh? -How in the world did you deduce that one? Quite the contrary... I'm
adement the downfield battles are underrepresented in F1 coverage. It's no
fun catching a battle in the back of a shot or hearing about it while the
camera shows a lonely 3rd.

On the other hand, while it's fun watching the battle for 10th, it's a
surrogate, because kudos aside winning it doesn't help any of the
participants one iota.

Agreed, it must remain a battle of man and machine. I am just afraid there
currently exists an insurmountable technical gap between the contenders and
the also-rans.

Very odd sentiment. A true fan of a given sport should be able to enjoy it
on all levels, IMO.

Jan.
=---

Rafe McAulif

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Rafe McAulif » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:30:35

In agreement with you there Steve, overall it's the best package.
Reliability, power, handling, aero.

Rafe Mc



Rafe McAulif

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Rafe McAulif » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:54:22

Well if that's what you took out of it, you must have been watching
something else. Agreed, you get some weak, money-bloated drivers who
shouldn't be on the grid, but then F1 had Marques, Mazzacane, etc.

Don't bother putting bigoted opinions forward, it's not worth it. I'm
not a fan of Nascar, but I'm not going to bag the series and the
drivers because I don't like it. Learn some respect.

Rafe Mc

Rafe McAulif

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Rafe McAulif » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 21:02:02

Hear hear, at least the bikes inevitably put on a fantastic show, just
what racing should be all about. Go Rossi!

Rafe Mc

Mario Petrinovi

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Mario Petrinovi » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 22:23:38

        Reliability, power, handling, aero,drivers.


> In agreement with you there Steve, overall it's the best package.
> Reliability, power, handling, aero.

> Rafe Mc



> >Ferarri has a much better overal car then Williams, it's just that the
BMW
> >has lots of power and that shows at Hockenheim and perhaps Monza but at
> >other track the Ferarri is far superior. I doubt anyone else here would
> >agree with your statement there.

Rafe McAulif

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Rafe McAulif » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 00:39:59

Indeed, but as far as "the best car" goes...

On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:23:38 +0200, "Mario Petrinovic"


>        Reliability, power, handling, aero,drivers.



>> In agreement with you there Steve, overall it's the best package.
>> Reliability, power, handling, aero.

>> Rafe Mc



>> >Ferarri has a much better overal car then Williams, it's just that the
>BMW
>> >has lots of power and that shows at Hockenheim and perhaps Monza but at
>> >other track the Ferarri is far superior. I doubt anyone else here would
>> >agree with your statement there.

Mario Petrinovi

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Mario Petrinovi » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 01:53:24

        Strange how Barrichello isn't in front of Coulthard if he
has a better car. Must be that Coultard is much better driver
if he manage to be in front of Barrichello in a worse car. : )


> Indeed, but as far as "the best car" goes...

> On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 15:23:38 +0200, "Mario Petrinovic"

> >        Reliability, power, handling, aero,drivers.



> >> In agreement with you there Steve, overall it's the best package.
> >> Reliability, power, handling, aero.

> >> Rafe Mc



> >> >Ferarri has a much better overal car then Williams, it's just that the
> >BMW
> >> >has lots of power and that shows at Hockenheim and perhaps Monza but
at
> >> >other track the Ferarri is far superior. I doubt anyone else here
would
> >> >agree with your statement there.

Graeme Nas

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Graeme Nas » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 02:55:21

But how can you bring yourself to watch it? They're not battling for the
lead, so surely they're just as second-best as College "Football"...

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash

Graeme Nas

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Graeme Nas » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 02:55:25

You've ignored a lot of factors there, though...

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash

David G Fishe

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by David G Fishe » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 04:08:50

Are you somehow offended that I don't watch college football, or that it's
called "football"?

David G Fisher


Gerry Aitke

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Gerry Aitke » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 05:03:34


> Are you somehow offended that I don't watch college football, or that it's
> called "football"?

> David G Fisher
> > >I find the battles farther back in the field as fun to keep track of as
> > >those in front.

> > But how can you bring yourself to watch it? They're not battling for the
> > lead, so surely they're just as second-best as College "Football"...

David, Still having trouble understanding plain English? Oh dear!
Eldre

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Eldre » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 05:55:08



>        There's only one way to even MS with rest of the pack. And
>that is to give him much slower car.

How about the BRM?<g>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Graeme Nas

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Graeme Nas » Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:03:19

Not at all... Are you somehow offended that I asked a question you don't
have an answer for, or are you just building the suspense? :-))

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash


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