rec.autos.simulators

by **Steve Levet** » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 02:54:50

Watching a NASCAR (and CART) is far superior as a spectacle than F1 where
you usually get more overtaking in 1 race than you do in a whole F1 season.

--

Steve Levett

------------------

> The racing in NASCAR sucks, they don't do anything, then just take someone
> out. Oval racing is not really F1's first turn, they all basically stay
put
> in the first turn, they do pass more, but it is not like having a car from
> 8th on the grid get to 2nd...

> > >NASCAR is also a
> > > joke, they red flag the events when they are near the end just for the
> > > "racing,"

> > Don't put me wrong but what's wrong with racing.

> > >What NASCAR or IRL tracks are as dangerous as Hockinheim? CART
> > > may have some that are close, but I can't think of htem.
> > > -Stuart Becktell

> > In some other post you said that first turn is most dangerous.
In
> > oval racing whole race is actualy F1's first turn.

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by **Steve Levet** » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 03:00:50

CART do no go below 200 at Michigan (I think the ave lap speed is 220 or
so), I'm not to sure about the other tracks. At New Hampshire 2 NACSAR
drivers were killed and this is only a mid speed track. Cars normally impact
a wall at a much higher angle than they do in F1 resulting in 100+G crashes.
It doesn't take a genious to figure that its more dangerous to leave a track
and hit a wall than it is if you leave a track go through a gravel trap then
go into a tyre wall.
--

Steve Levett

------------------

> What is so bad about Michigan, Indy, California and C***te? The cars
go,
> on average, 150 in the turns, going up the track you lose at least 30 mph,
> and the cars can easily sastain a 120 MPH hit. Runoff areas are proven
that
> they work great, or not at all. If the car gets airborne at all, it is in
> the wall at a very high speed.
> -Stuart Becktell

> > Talladega, Michigan, Indy, Daytona, California, C***te. Do you want
me
> to
> > go on? Nearly all ovals are more dangerous than Hockenheim because a
> mistake
> > means hitting a wall at 150-230 mph whereas F1 usually has lots of run
off
> > areas.

> > --

> > Steve Levett

> > ------------------

> > > Two people out of a grid of how many? CART would not have had this
> > problem,
> > > there cars are designed so they don't have as many CF parts flying
> around.
> > > IRL is a joke, did you see the indy 500? It took them like 7 accidents
> to
> > > realize that you shouldn't go below the white line in turn 4. They
also
> > ask
> > > there drivers to slow down if they are leading by too much. NASCAR is
> also
> > a
> > > joke, they red flag the events when they are near the end just for the
> > > "racing," or throw a yellow flag at the end because they throw a cup
> onto
> > > the track. What NASCAR or IRL tracks are as dangerous as Hockinheim?
> CART
> > > may have some that are close, but I can't think of htem.
> > > -Stuart Becktell

> > > > David Coultard has said he thinks the race was only stopped because
> > > > Schumacher was in front of his home crowd, so there's 2 drivers that
> > agree
> > > > with me as well as the officials of CART, IRL and NASCAR who would
of
> > all
> > > > put the pace car out, even on much more dangerous tracks than
> > Hockenheim.

> > > > --

> > > > Steve Levett

> > > > ------------------

> > > > > Hi Gerry,

> > > > > > The difference between just losING
> > > > > > and being a losER is knowing when you've lost :).

> > > > > Well said Gerry :-)

> > > > > Achim

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by **Gerry Aitke** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 02:57:01

> Usualy will F1 champions go west at the end of their
> career. Why didn't he stay in F1 and win more money or
> another F1 chanpionship. MS won 3 times and still didn't
> go west.
> > I disagree with the "after williams" nonsense.
> > He left F1, went west and won, no sign of a Williams...

Mario, with respect mate.

You said Mansell was 'nothing' before Williams: For Christ's sake man,
they were his formative years!

And what about that in between spell at Ferrari in 89. He won his first
race for the team and was immediately taken into the hearts of the
Tifosi! They christened him Il Leone and he repaid them with some
fantastic results. The Hungarian race was especially memorable as he
started 12th and managed to win on a circuit that is notorious for it's
lack of overtaking. Podium finishes in France, Britain, Belgium and
Germany saw him finish fourth. An improvement on the previous year!

I ask you, is that 'nothing'?

You said Mansell was 'nothing' after Williams: BOLLOCKS! He was Indycar
champion. Hardly 'nothing'.

After CART and a half hearted return to F1 in a McLaren that was too
small for him and a stint in BTCC, I think he become more interested in
golf and retired.

So after a not inconsiderable number of years at the top, who are you to
question his own personal decision not to return to F1? Are you saying
he's 'nothing' because he only won one F1 crown?

You also wrote this:

COME ON! Show SOME respect! ;)

Gerry

by **Peter Ive** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 03:10:36

writes

The point I was trying to make was that you claimed that South American
club teams weren't up to scratch because europe had all their best
players and therefore they were not capable of competing at club level.
Why they called it the 'World Club Championship' is of no consequence,
however I needed to use that title so that you knew of which tournament
I was refering to.

So, to counter your argument against South American clubs, the 2 teams
that got through to the final were both Brazilian. Can't recall both
their names, but sure one was Corinthians and the other may have been
Palmeiras or Vasco de Gama.

You may well argue that the European clubs were not that committed to
such a Mickey Mouse tourney, but Man Utd were actually given
dispensation from playing in the FA Cup that season just so they could
go and play. That sounds like pretty serious commitment to me, although
there were other political shenanigans that also influenced their
decision, which I won't go into.

Btw, I reckon you're just peaved that all your good frenchie's play
abroad instead of in France, meaning no good french club teams. hehe.

Anyway, this is getting waaayyyy off topic now, don't you think. :)

>message

>> writes

>> >> By all means, don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant. If
>> >> you would bother to do some research on the subject, you would know
>> >> WHY it is called the World Series. Originally, the end-of-season
>> >> baseball championship was sponsored by a newspaper, the now
>defunct
>> >> "New York World". Hence, the name "World Series". As for basketball

>> >I didn't know about this point but why do they call themselves WORLD
>> >champions ??

>> >I disagree with you about the south american football teams, the
>NATIONAL
>> >teams are on par with "us" europeans but the clubs are quite below
>because
>> >all the best players are over here mostly for financial reasons but
>> >anyway...

>> >Let's take the Brazilian team, I don't think many players are actually
>> >playing in the brazilian championship (or columbian, or argentinian....)

>> Guess you've forgotten Man Utd's and other Euro club's little visit last
>> year for the World Club Championship. Mmm, wonder which club won?
>> --
>> Peter Ives
>> Remove ALL_STRESS before replying
>> If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me
>> GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

--
Peter Ives
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying
If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me
GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

by **Gerry Aitke** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 03:06:30

> If you want to be "popular" around here, you can't give facts. You must tell
> them what they want to hear.

Stupid troll.

Gerry

"F1 drivers come from a world wide talent pool of 6 billion people." --
David G Fisher

PS: Where do you get your 'facts' from, a bloke down the pub?

by **David Ewin** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 03:36:56

> snip

> > And one more thing: I think the whole world-championship is a total desaster
> > after Eddie Jordan has fired HHF - my favourite driver. No, I do not say
> > that he is the best driver, he is just the driver I like the most.

> And somehow I really enjoyed how well Jordan did this weekend... ;)

Yeah, me too. I always liked Jordan, but their image has taken a severe beating
after the Frentzen incident. Not offering any explanation has just compounded the
problem. It's hard to imagine what happened. HHF is probably the most
mild-mannered and nicest guy in the sport, so I can't see him pissing off Eddie
Jordan. Jordan even said he has never heard HHF raise his voice. Given Trulli's
poor showing in the race (he lamely spun out trying to fend off Panis), Eddie
fired the wrong guy. Trulli, while a decent qualifier, has never been much at
bringing home a result. The Speedvision guys were reporting that Honda wanted a
young Japanese driver in the seat. If so, why did they just re-sign Frentzen for
2002 (only a couple of weeks ago)? Very odd.

Dave Ewing

--
*****************************************************
David A. Ewing

*****************************************************

by **David G Fishe** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 04:07:58

There we go. Sentimentality.

David G Fisher

by **Ian** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 01:32:33

Wow !
I didn't know they made GPL available on vinyl <G>

--

Ian P
<email invalid due to spammers>

> Why would I ever think guys like you would move on from those old sims?
You
> still haven't moved on to CD's.

> David G Fisher

> > > If you want to be "popular" around here, you can't give facts. You
must
> > tell
> > > them what they want to hear.

> > Change your LP's side, it's skipping on the last groove.

> > --
> > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > -- May the Downforce be with you...
> > -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **David G Fishe** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 04:30:22

Since you use the word "stupid", I feel free to use it to describe you.

How stupid can you be to not understand this comment? "F1 drivers come from
a world wide talent pool of 6 billion people." Are you pretending to be a
dumb ass because you are still desperate to take shots at me? Or are you
simply an idiot?

I'll explain that comment to you in a way that a pebble can understand. That
comment was made while discussing the talents of NASCAR and F1 drivers.
NASCAR fans on this newsgroup were saying that NASCAR drivers were as good
as F1 drivers. I said that NASCAR drivers come from one region (the South)
in one country (U.S.). F1 drivers come from countries all over the world.
See the difference? Here's the point where your tiny brain begins to melt.
You take the 6 billion comment literally. Do you really think that I
believe that future F1 drivers are being hunted down in every single village
in the entire world? At the Arctic circle? The bottom of the sea? You really
don't understand how ridiculous it is to claim that NASCAR drivers are the
equal to F1 drivers when they all come from one region in one country? Is
there something in the water in the South which makes them fantastically
skilled drivers?

David G Fisher (Amazed at how fu**en stupid people can be when trying to
prove their intelligence)

> > If you want to be "popular" around here, you can't give facts. You must
tell
> > them what they want to hear.

> Stupid troll.

> Gerry

> "F1 drivers come from a world wide talent pool of 6 billion people." --
> David G Fisher

> PS: Where do you get your 'facts' from, a bloke down the pub?

by **Michael Heymann** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 04:33:24

Yes, because a stupid guy from tv told them the other game was over, but it
wasn't at all.
I'm a supporter from Schalke since a long, long time and this was certainly
a very hard day and I do hope that I don't have to go through this once
more. Hopefully they will have a bit more luck this year.

--
Have several nice days !!!

Michael Heymanns
Team-Manager SRG

IWSC Champion 2000
IPSC GT-Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 1999
TPTCC Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 2001

www.srg-group.de
www.teamsrg.de
www.tptcc.de

1&1 Profiseller
www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791

> yep, sad for schalke, especially after partying for 5 minutes.....

> > If I remember correctly ManU lost the first game, but can't remember the
> > winner - must have been a team from South America. But who cares about
> this
> > "championship" at all? Even the world cup final isn't a very big thing
for
> > the european teams. It's all about the champions league and it was won
by
> > Bayern Mnchen.
> > But you are right of cause: A lot of players from South America are
> playing
> > in european teams, two brazilian players are playing for Bayern: Elber
and
> > Sergio and one from Paraguay (Rocque Santa Cruz) and one from Peru
> (Claudio
> > Pizarro).
> > I was happy that Bayern won the champions league, but unfortunatly they
> also
> > won the national title in the last seconds of the season and my
favourite
> > club finished only second. It was a real thriller in those last minutes.

> > --
> > Have several nice days !!!

> > Michael Heymanns
> > Team-Manager SRG

> > IWSC Champion 2000
> > IPSC GT-Champion 2000
> > TPTCC Champion 1999
> > TPTCC Champion 2000
> > TPTCC Champion 2001

> > www.srg-group.de
> > www.teamsrg.de
> > www.tptcc.de

> > 1&1 Profiseller
> > www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791

> > > well, that was a FIFA BULLSHIT, nobody uses the title "world
champion",
> > BTW
> > > I dont't even recall who was there and won, and on top of this I
recall
> > > there were clubs from "everywhere" not just England or Italy or Spain
or
> > > Brazil (I know there was no french one...)

> > > Who won ? just out of curiosity ? MAN Utd ?

> > message

- Show quoted text -

by **ymenar** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 04:34:53

> Agreed, MS + best car = boring championship fight

He doesn't have the best car this year. Well not anymore.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **ymenar** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 04:36:11

> NASCAR fans on this newsgroup were saying that NASCAR drivers were as good
> as F1 drivers.

Really? Where and when?

Post proof or retract.

Yep ***ing stupid indeed you are.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Michael Heymann** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 04:42:56

Maybe you are NOTHING if you don't win a championship. That's something I
don't like in these days. Only the winner is important and the 2nd place is
the first one of the loosers. Unfortunatly you can see this in nearly every
sport today.
Winning is not everything and if you don't win you aren't NOTHING.

Nigel Mansell was always a brilliant driver. I remember a race at Brands
Hatch where Nigel made a superb manoeuvre to overtake Nelson Piquet. He was
sometimes really close to the world championship, but it took him a very
long time to finally win the championship and I guess there wasn't a lot of
people saying that he didn't deserve it.
He was always a fighter and that's one of the reasons people liked Nigel
Mansell, he was a real racer.

--
Have several nice days !!!

Michael Heymanns
Team-Manager SRG

IWSC Champion 2000
IPSC GT-Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 1999
TPTCC Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 2001

www.srg-group.de
www.teamsrg.de
www.tptcc.de

1&1 Profiseller
www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791

> > Usualy will F1 champions go west at the end of their
> > career. Why didn't he stay in F1 and win more money or
> > another F1 chanpionship. MS won 3 times and still didn't
> > go west.

> > > I disagree with the "after williams" nonsense.
> > > He left F1, went west and won, no sign of a Williams...

> Mario, with respect mate.

> You said Mansell was 'nothing' before Williams: For Christ's sake man,
> they were his formative years!

> And what about that in between spell at Ferrari in 89. He won his first
> race for the team and was immediately taken into the hearts of the
> Tifosi! They christened him Il Leone and he repaid them with some
> fantastic results. The Hungarian race was especially memorable as he
> started 12th and managed to win on a circuit that is notorious for it's
> lack of overtaking. Podium finishes in France, Britain, Belgium and
> Germany saw him finish fourth. An improvement on the previous year!

> I ask you, is that 'nothing'?

> You said Mansell was 'nothing' after Williams: BOLLOCKS! He was Indycar
> champion. Hardly 'nothing'.

> After CART and a half hearted return to F1 in a McLaren that was too
> small for him and a stint in BTCC, I think he become more interested in
> golf and retired.

> So after a not inconsiderable number of years at the top, who are you to
> question his own personal decision not to return to F1? Are you saying
> he's 'nothing' because he only won one F1 crown?

> You also wrote this:

> >2) Nigel Mansell was nothing before and after Williams.

> COME ON! Show SOME respect! ;)

> Gerry

by **Michael Heymann** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 04:46:54

And the next question would be: How long will Jordan have the Honda-Power?
Frentzen has had always good connections to Honda and Bridgestone, because of his time in the japanese F3000. I'm not so sure that they really liked what Eddie has done with Heinz.

There are rumours that the reason to fire HHF were the statements of Heinz that the car isn't really good and that Trulli gets more support from the team. Rumours... HHF hasn't said anything yet about it - as far as I know.

--
Have several nice days !!!

Michael Heymanns
Team-Manager SRG

IWSC Champion 2000
IPSC GT-Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 1999
TPTCC Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 2001

www.srg-group.de
www.teamsrg.de
www.tptcc.de

1&1 Profiseller
www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791

>
snip
>
> And one more thing: I think the whole world-championship is a total desaster
> after Eddie Jordan has fired HHF - my favourite driver. No, I do not say
> that he is the best driver, he is just the driver I like the most.
And somehow I really enjoyed how well Jordan did this weekend... ;)

Yeah, me too. I always liked Jordan, but their image has taken a severe beating after the Frentzen incident. Not offering any explanation has just compounded the problem. It's hard to imagine what happened. HHF is probably the most mild-mannered and nicest guy in the sport, so I can't see him pissing off Eddie Jordan. Jordan even said he has never heard HHF raise his voice. Given Trulli's poor showing in the race (he lamely spun out trying to fend off Panis), Eddie fired the wrong guy. Trulli, while a decent qualifier, has never been much at bringing home a result. The Speedvision guys were reporting that Honda wanted a young Japanese driver in the seat. If so, why did they just re-sign Frentzen for 2002 (only a couple of weeks ago)? Very odd.
Dave Ewing

--
*****************************************************
David A. Ewing

*****************************************************

by **Michael Heymann** » Thu, 02 Aug 2001 04:50:15

Why are you always shouting at each other that the other one is stupid?
Can't you discuss in a normal way?

--
Have several nice days !!!

Michael Heymanns
Team-Manager SRG

IWSC Champion 2000
IPSC GT-Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 1999
TPTCC Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 2001

www.srg-group.de
www.teamsrg.de
www.tptcc.de

1&1 Profiseller
www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791

> > NASCAR fans on this newsgroup were saying that NASCAR drivers were as
good
> > as F1 drivers.

> Really? Where and when?

> Post proof or retract.

> > David G Fisher (Amazed at how fu**en stupid people can be when trying to
> > prove their intelligence)

> Yep ***ing stupid indeed you are.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

rec.autos.simulators

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