rec.autos.simulators

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

Txl

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Txl » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 02:10:30

US-World series...how vain to call a national championship the WORLD series.

Even if the US teams are the best at baseball, american football or
basketball, how can they call themselves WORLD champion when it's only a
north-american championship...

The UEFA champion's league is not the WORLD champion's league of football,
and yet andy 1st league European team can kick ass of the best US football
team...

See what I mean, it's NOBODY'S fault, not dave's on top af all, but
sometimes americans are SOOO proud that they forget they are not the only
land on earth.

Let the flaming begin...

Joachim Trens

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Joachim Trens » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 02:24:26

Hi Steve,

truly good style is to know when it's time to stop insisting ;-)

Achim


> But dont F1 rules state that you cant have a restart after the cars have
> completed the 1st lap which is what they did? 4 or 5 laps under the pace
car
> at 5 minutes per lap would have given the marshalls plenty of time to
clear
> up, they use trucks on the course behind the pace car in CART and NASCAR
so
> why not F1? I'm sure a tyre would have failed if it was going to do so in
> the 5 or so laps behind the pace car which would not result in a dangerous
> accident.

> --

> Steve Levett

> ------------------


> > Hi Steve,

> > if names mean anything, Gerhard Berger, Niki Lauda and Christian Danner
> all
> > said that it was the right decision to stop the race. Norbert Haug said
> > something to the effect that it was an acceptable decision.

> > The reasoning was always that this much debris on a hi-speed track like
> > Hockenheim could have lead to devastating accidents.

> > The track BTW wasn't cleaned manually, they sent out two road-cleaner
> trucks
> > to get it cleaned up in time for the restart.

> > Achim

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Ed Solhei

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Ed Solhei » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 02:32:58

Funny how all this become when you think about how NASCAR, CART, IRL,
Indy-lights and just about any other racing series in the USA managed to
clean the track with 'blowers' or manual labour without stopping the race.
Even on tracks thats no more than 1/5th the length of Hockenheim   :-)

--
ed_

Steve Levet

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Steve Levet » Mon, 30 Jul 2001 02:34:45

I agree with that, only the NHL in US sports dont consider the winners world
champions.
--

Steve Levett

------------------

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Dann

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Dann » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 02:51:23


>> Par with US World Series winners.

>US-World series...how vain to call a national championship the WORLD series.

>Even if the US teams are the best at baseball, american football or
>basketball, how can they call themselves WORLD champion when it's only a
>north-american championship...

>The UEFA champion's league is not the WORLD champion's league of football,
>and yet andy 1st league European team can kick ass of the best US football
>team...

>See what I mean, it's NOBODY'S fault, not dave's on top af all, but
>sometimes americans are SOOO proud that they forget they are not the only
>land on earth.

>Let the flaming begin...

By all means, don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.  If
you would bother to do some research on the subject, you would know
WHY it is called the World Series.  Originally, the end-of-season
baseball championship was sponsored by a newspaper, the now defunct
"New York World".  Hence, the name "World Series".  As for basketball
or U.S. football, do you realistically think that there is any other
football or basketball team in the rest of the world that is going to
beat the Super Bowl or NBA champion at the top of their game?

You're absolutely right, the UEFA champ is not the world champ.  Yes,
the top European team could probably easily beat any U.S. soccer team.
However, there are other major soccer powers in the world, some of the
South American countries for example, that would be very competitive
against the UEFA champs.

Dan (not an American)

Gerry Aitke

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Gerry Aitke » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 02:47:51


> Funny how all this become when you think about how NASCAR, CART, IRL,
> Indy-lights and just about any other racing series in the USA managed to
> clean the track with 'blowers' or manual labour without stopping the race.
> Even on tracks thats no more than 1/5th the length of Hockenheim   :-)

Just another example of an area where F1 is WAY behind CART etc. Another
area being entertainment of course

Gerry

Steve Levet

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Steve Levet » Mon, 30 Jul 2001 02:53:19

I think races should only be restarted if there is a need for an ambulance
or the track is completely blocked like the Spa race a few years ago.

--

Steve Levett

------------------

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Michael Heymann

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Michael Heymann » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 02:57:03

Coulthard and Brundle aren't real racers? Have you even driven a F1-Car on
your own that you can make this statement?

Marc Surer
born on Sep, 18th 1951 in Aresdorf, Suisse

1979 European F2 Champion

Between 1979 and 1986 81 starts in Formula 1. Has also won the 24h of Spa in
1985 and at Monza in a WSC.

If the start is the most dangerous part of all, why don't we use a pacecar
for every start???

--
Have several nice days !!!

Michael Heymanns
Team-Manager SRG

IWSC Champion 2000
IPSC GT-Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 1999
TPTCC Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 2001

www.srg-group.de
www.teamsrg.de
www.tptcc.de

1&1 Profiseller
www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791


> I agree with JV who is one of the real racers unlike Coultard, Brundle
etc.
> (never heard of Surer) It was safer to use the pace car than to redo the
> most dangerous part of the race.

> --

> Steve Levett

> ------------------


> > Yep. looks like Stevie Levett is wrong this time.



> > > Martin Brundle, another ex F1 driver and Dacvid Coulthard's
> (Schumacher's
> > > main chamionship contender) manager also said the red flag was the
right
> > > decision.

> > > --

> > > Ian P
> > > <email invalid due to spammers>



> > > > Just remember that you have a different view on the track from
inside
> > the
> > > >***pit. Marc Surer (former F1-Driver) has said on tv that the red
> flag
> > > was
> > > > the right decision. Surer is from Suisse and surely not known as a
big
> > > > supporter of Schumacher.

> > > > --
> > > > Have several nice days !!!

> > > > Michael Heymanns
> > > > Team-Manager SRG

> > > > IWSC Champion 2000
> > > > IPSC GT-Champion 2000
> > > > TPTCC Champion 1999
> > > > TPTCC Champion 2000
> > > > TPTCC Champion 2001

> > > > www.srg-group.de
> > > > www.teamsrg.de
> > > > www.tptcc.de

> > > > 1&1 Profiseller
> > > > www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791


> > > > > No, it was DCs fault at Silverstone. Schumacher is a fast driver
but
> > he
> > > is
> > > > a
> > > > > cheat who gets preferential treatment from Bernie and F1. I am not
a
> > fan
> > > > of
> > > > > any driver so I'm not blinded by the love of MS that some people
> here
> > > seem
> > > > > to be. I went through the MS thing a few weeks ago with someone so
> I'm
> > > not
> > > > > gonna do it again.

> > > > > JV said on ITV that he wanted the race to go on and was surprised
it
> > was
> > > > > stopped and I'm gonna trust his judgement ahead on any guys in
here.

> > > > > --

> > > > > Steve Levett

> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Gerry Aitke

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Gerry Aitke » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 02:52:28


> Hi Steve,

> truly good style is to know when it's time to stop insisting ;-)

> Achim



> > But dont F1 rules state that you cant have a restart after the cars have
> > completed the 1st lap which is what they did? 4 or 5 laps under the pace
> car
> > at 5 minutes per lap would have given the marshalls plenty of time to
> clear
> > up, they use trucks on the course behind the pace car in CART and NASCAR
> so
> > why not F1? I'm sure a tyre would have failed if it was going to do so in
> > the 5 or so laps behind the pace car which would not result in a dangerous
> > accident.

Or to put it another way, Achim... The difference between just losING
and being a losER is knowing when you've lost :).

Gerry

Michael Heymann

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Michael Heymann » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 03:07:39

I do respect Jacques Villeneuve a lot and I also like the CART-Series a lot,
but we were talking about F1, otheriwse we could say that Jarno Trulli is
also world-champion because he won a title in a KART-championship.

If you are saying that we europeans are ignoring the US-Sports or that we
don't respect people because they are from North America, than you should
have a look at most of your american people, where a lot of people even
don't know that there is a world outside the US.

Jacques Villeneuve is a well respected driver in F1 and I think there are a
lot of people who wants to see him winning again, but nevertheless he is
still only a one-time F1-World Champion.

--
Have several nice days !!!

Michael Heymanns
Team-Manager SRG

IWSC Champion 2000
IPSC GT-Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 1999
TPTCC Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 2001

www.srg-group.de
www.teamsrg.de
www.tptcc.de

1&1 Profiseller
www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791


>   Steve,
>    F1 affisheeanadios don't consider CART to be a World Championship, at
> least not of the same level.  So when you said two time World Champ, the
F1
> crowd questioned you because he hasn't won 2 titles in F1.
>   Kinda like American's don't consider the Japanese Baseball Champs to be
on
> Par with US World Series winners.
>   He accomplishments are great, but his lackluster performance with a
> down-cycle Williams and a new startup like BAR have tarnished his
> reputation.   Put JV in a Red Horse or the Merced/Mac team and folks here
> most likely would have a greater respect for his accomplishments.  Plus
he's
> not from 'the Continent' so that weighs against him as well.  What F1
needs
> is Eddie Irvine and Jacques on the same team...:)
> dave henrie


> > Villenueve, F1 and CART?

> > --

> > Steve Levett

> > ------------------


> > > Who's the double world champion ?

> > > --

> > > Ian P
> > > <email invalid due to spammers>



> > > > So you are saying you know more about race matters than a double
World
> > > > champion?

> > > > Steve Levett





> > > > > > Jacques was interviewed and said he was "very surprised" as they
> has
> > > > > already
> > > > > > gone through the debris once and he said they shouldnt have had
to
> > do
> > > > the
> > > > > > "most dangerous" part of the race again. So, are you saying
> > Villeneuve
> > > > > talks
> > > > > > shit as well? I bet you also think he never took out Damon to
win
> > the
> > > > > > championship and never tried to wreck Jacques on purpose.

> > > > > Villeneuve does tend to talk a lot of shit too, yes.
> > > > > Damon who ? Oh , I remember. The little brat who wouldn't have got
> > near
> > > a
> > > > > ***y Go-Kart if his Dad hadn't been called Graham.

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> > > > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

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> > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Michael Heymann

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Michael Heymann » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 03:10:40

But all this series have a different book of rules comparing to F1.
I think in most series under the banner of the FIA we would have seen the
same thing happened.

--
Have several nice days !!!

Michael Heymanns
Team-Manager SRG

IWSC Champion 2000
IPSC GT-Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 1999
TPTCC Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 2001

www.srg-group.de
www.teamsrg.de
www.tptcc.de

1&1 Profiseller
www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791


Steve Levet

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Steve Levet » Mon, 30 Jul 2001 03:11:42

I was quoting another person on the "real racers" thing. There is no way on
earth you can deny that the start is not the most dangerous part of a F1
race. That's just comical. That's why nearly every other major series does
use a pacecar to start the drivers.

--

Steve Levett

------------------

> Coulthard and Brundle aren't real racers? Have you even driven a F1-Car on
> your own that you can make this statement?

> Marc Surer
> born on Sep, 18th 1951 in Aresdorf, Suisse

> 1979 European F2 Champion

> Between 1979 and 1986 81 starts in Formula 1. Has also won the 24h of Spa
in
> 1985 and at Monza in a WSC.

> If the start is the most dangerous part of all, why don't we use a pacecar
> for every start???

> --
> Have several nice days !!!

> Michael Heymanns
> Team-Manager SRG

> IWSC Champion 2000
> IPSC GT-Champion 2000
> TPTCC Champion 1999
> TPTCC Champion 2000
> TPTCC Champion 2001

> www.srg-group.de
> www.teamsrg.de
> www.tptcc.de

> 1&1 Profiseller
> www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791


> > I agree with JV who is one of the real racers unlike Coultard, Brundle
> etc.
> > (never heard of Surer) It was safer to use the pace car than to redo the
> > most dangerous part of the race.

> > --

> > Steve Levett

> > ------------------


> > > Yep. looks like Stevie Levett is wrong this time.



> > > > Martin Brundle, another ex F1 driver and Dacvid Coulthard's
> > (Schumacher's
> > > > main chamionship contender) manager also said the red flag was the
> right
> > > > decision.

> > > > --

> > > > Ian P
> > > > <email invalid due to spammers>



> > > > > Just remember that you have a different view on the track from
> inside
> > > the
> > > > >***pit. Marc Surer (former F1-Driver) has said on tv that the red
> > flag
> > > > was
> > > > > the right decision. Surer is from Suisse and surely not known as a
> big
> > > > > supporter of Schumacher.

> > > > > --
> > > > > Have several nice days !!!

> > > > > Michael Heymanns
> > > > > Team-Manager SRG

> > > > > IWSC Champion 2000
> > > > > IPSC GT-Champion 2000
> > > > > TPTCC Champion 1999
> > > > > TPTCC Champion 2000
> > > > > TPTCC Champion 2001

> > > > > www.srg-group.de
> > > > > www.teamsrg.de
> > > > > www.tptcc.de

> > > > > 1&1 Profiseller
> > > > > www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791


> > > > > > No, it was DCs fault at Silverstone. Schumacher is a fast driver
> but
> > > he
> > > > is
> > > > > a
> > > > > > cheat who gets preferential treatment from Bernie and F1. I am
not
> a
> > > fan
> > > > > of
> > > > > > any driver so I'm not blinded by the love of MS that some people
> > here
> > > > seem
> > > > > > to be. I went through the MS thing a few weeks ago with someone
so
> > I'm
> > > > not
> > > > > > gonna do it again.

> > > > > > JV said on ITV that he wanted the race to go on and was
surprised
> it
> > > was
> > > > > > stopped and I'm gonna trust his judgement ahead on any guys in
> here.

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > Steve Levett

> > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/ - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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-----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Michael Heymann

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Michael Heymann » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 03:18:29

I guess what you think is absolutly unimportant, because the race stewards
whoi have decided this are responsible for the race, the drivers and the
spectators.
What would you have written when the race continued after some laps behind
the pacecar and than some cars crashed out because of the tires? Do you know
how it feels to loose a tire at full speed at Hockenheim? Do you want to be
in that car?
Think twice about it and than tell us what you would have decided instead of
the stewards.

BTW, you don't win three championships in F1 (soon to be four), win 50 races
and achieve over 40 pole-positions only by cheating.

--
Have several nice days !!!

Michael Heymanns
Team-Manager SRG

IWSC Champion 2000
IPSC GT-Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 1999
TPTCC Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 2001

www.srg-group.de
www.teamsrg.de
www.tptcc.de

1&1 Profiseller
www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791


> I think races should only be restarted if there is a need for an ambulance
> or the track is completely blocked like the Spa race a few years ago.

> --

> Steve Levett

> ------------------


> > Funny how all this become when you think about how NASCAR, CART, IRL,
> > Indy-lights and just about any other racing series in the USA managed to
> > clean the track with 'blowers' or manual labour without stopping the
race.
> > Even on tracks thats no more than 1/5th the length of Hockenheim   :-)

> > --
> > ed_

> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Thom j

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Thom j » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 03:18:12

Resting right now as I type :)

| Give it a rest.

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zed, not z

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by zed, not z » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 03:21:14



NHL is a Canadian sport, they just let americans play in it.


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