rec.autos.simulators

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

Stuart Becktel

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Stuart Becktel » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:07:58

IMHO the most dangerous part of the race is braking for the first
turn...with all the stalls on the grid this year, we have only had one
accident (Burti) and that was because of a car that was slow. Basically, how
many injuries have happened on the grid, and how many have happened going
into the first turn?
-Stuart Becktell
Stuart Becktel

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Stuart Becktel » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:09:18

If Senna got perferred treatment, the race at Imola would not have happened,
and he would have won a couple more championships...


> > No, it was DCs fault at Silverstone. Schumacher is a fast driver
> > but he is a cheat who gets preferential treatment from Bernie and
> > F1.
> <snip>

> Bit like Ayrton Senna, really... <vbeg>

> > JV said on ITV that he wanted the race to go on and was surprised
> > it was stopped and I'm gonna trust his judgement ahead on any guys
> > in here.

> On the other hand, Prof Sid Watkins (who you have to admit knows a
> thing or two) talks about this in Autosport this week in relation to
> Monza last year, and gives the very clear impression that he very much
> dislikes long safety car periods. He also tells us that Bernie told him
> that anything over 5 minutes behind the safety car was too long.

> --
> David. (GPLRank handicap -6.57; Monsters of GPL +271.79)
> The GPL Scrapyard: *will be down for a while - hackers at 9ug :-( *
> "After all, a mere thousand yards - such a harmless little knoll,
> really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh.

Stuart Becktel

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Stuart Becktel » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:12:21

Montoya has had very bad luck this year. Have you ever seen him driving a
CART car in the***pit. IT is total genius, he even got those cars drifting
on the oval tracks...
-Stuart Becktell




> > Any why do you hate Michael? He is without doubt the most naturally
gifted
> > grand prix driver out there. Damon Hill didn't have it, Mika Hakkinen
> > DEFINATELY doesn't have it, but he does. Montoya does. Ralf doesn't.

> Montoya does and Ralf doesn't? The myth lives on.

> R. Schumacher has badly outqualified Montoya in all but three races this
> year. Usually by a half second or more. The three in which Montoya did
> outqualify Ralf, he did so by less than .2 COMBINED.

> Ralf has three wins, a second, a fourth, and a fifth. Montoya has two
> seconds and a fourth.

> Today, according to Ralf, Montoya apparently ignored the warnings that
their
> BMW engine needed to be babied a bit in order to help insure a finish.
Ralf
> drove smart while Montoya drove all out. You saw what happened. Ralf wins
> and Montoya retires again.

> They are the same age, and Montoya has been a F1 test driver, along with
his
> F3000  and CART experience, He's not a rookie by any means.

> David G Fisher

Stuart Becktel

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Stuart Becktel » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:18:41

OMG, that is so wrong but it is true :)

Stuart Becktel

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Stuart Becktel » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:26:00

Two people out of a grid of how many? CART would not have had this problem,
there cars are designed so they don't have as many CF parts flying around.
IRL is a joke, did you see the indy 500? It took them like 7 accidents to
realize that you shouldn't go below the white line in turn 4. They also ask
there drivers to slow down if they are leading by too much. NASCAR is also a
joke, they red flag the events when they are near the end just for the
"racing," or throw a yellow flag at the end because they throw a cup onto
the track. What NASCAR or IRL tracks are as dangerous as Hockinheim? CART
may have some that are close, but I can't think of htem.
-Stuart Becktell

> David Coultard has said he thinks the race was only stopped because
> Schumacher was in front of his home crowd, so there's 2 drivers that agree
> with me as well as the officials of CART, IRL and NASCAR who would of all
> put the pace car out, even on much more dangerous tracks than Hockenheim.

> --

> Steve Levett

> ------------------


> > Hi Gerry,

> > > The difference between just losING
> > > and being a losER is knowing when you've lost :).

> > Well said Gerry :-)

> > Achim

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Mario Petrinovi

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Mario Petrinovi » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:38:02


        It looks like people who like Ayrton Senna are very young and didn't
actualy watched F1 when Senna began. F1 was a first class noble sport.
Drivers liked to think about themselfs as gentelmens, and acted like that.
Then came Senna. He was most arrogant driver F1 has ever seen. Nobody
liked him. It was allways dangerous to drive in front of him. He simply ran
into everybody. When he cuoldn't overtake with his driving ability, and that
was most of the time, he used brute force. The rael drivers couldn't stand
it, and were disgusted with that. The real drivers used driving bravoures
like MS is doing today. But in those days young drivers stayed away if they
hadn't experience to answer to that. Didn't just run into good drivers back
like thay run into MS's back today.
        BTW, Senna cannot be the best driver in the world if he is less
succesful than MS, but drove in better cars than MS is driveing today. It
simply isn't logical.
        BTW (2), Senna had only 41 wins out of 65 poles. Second number
usualy tells you about cars ability. Diference between second and first
tells you about drivers ability. It is -24, and by far the worst of all
drivers. MS have 50 wins out of 40 poles. That's +10.
        BTW (3), Senna realy is the best driver in rain.

Mario Petrinovi

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Mario Petrinovi » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:51:31


        Teams usualy use second car for experimentation. When
motor is in development, like BMW is todey, second car usualy
has a lot of blow ups and bad performances.

Mario Petrinovi

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Mario Petrinovi » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:03:46


        Don't put me wrong but what's wrong with racing.

        In some other post you said that first turn is most dangerous. In
oval racing whole race is actualy F1's first turn.

Mario Petrinovi

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Mario Petrinovi » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:03:16


        Not in Ferrari. Only in some superior car. That's how he won all
of his championships.

Steve Levet

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Steve Levet » Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:14:41

Talladega, Michigan, Indy, Daytona, California, C***te. Do you want me to
go on? Nearly all ovals are more dangerous than Hockenheim because a mistake
means hitting a wall at 150-230 mph whereas F1 usually has lots of run off
areas.

--

Steve Levett

------------------

> Two people out of a grid of how many? CART would not have had this
problem,
> there cars are designed so they don't have as many CF parts flying around.
> IRL is a joke, did you see the indy 500? It took them like 7 accidents to
> realize that you shouldn't go below the white line in turn 4. They also
ask
> there drivers to slow down if they are leading by too much. NASCAR is also
a
> joke, they red flag the events when they are near the end just for the
> "racing," or throw a yellow flag at the end because they throw a cup onto
> the track. What NASCAR or IRL tracks are as dangerous as Hockinheim? CART
> may have some that are close, but I can't think of htem.
> -Stuart Becktell


> > David Coultard has said he thinks the race was only stopped because
> > Schumacher was in front of his home crowd, so there's 2 drivers that
agree
> > with me as well as the officials of CART, IRL and NASCAR who would of
all
> > put the pace car out, even on much more dangerous tracks than
Hockenheim.

> > --

> > Steve Levett

> > ------------------


> > > Hi Gerry,

> > > > The difference between just losING
> > > > and being a losER is knowing when you've lost :).

> > > Well said Gerry :-)

> > > Achim

> > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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> > -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

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Steve Levet

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Steve Levet » Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:16:32

I agree with you here, it was too dangerous to move off his line. He had to
hild his line and hope others got a good view of him going slowly.

--

Steve Levett

------------------

> Ok enough is enough: Do you really think that Schumacher would risk his
own
> life and the life of other drivers to get a race stopped? If you really
> think this than we don't have to discuss anymore, because this is just
> ridiculous and stupid.

> If you have a look at the pictures you'll see that Michael was already in
> the middle of the street at the start and the cars were flying on both
sides
> around him. Lucaiano Burti wasn't able to see Michael, because of a car in
> front of him and that's the reason why he hit Michael. After Michael
stepped
> out of the car the first thing he has done was to ask Burti if everything
> was alright with him. The next thing was that he walked back to the pits,
> slowly, because he thought the safety car would come out and his race was
> over and out. As he noticed that the race was stopped he started to run
back
> to his crew to get in the T-Car.

> It would have been much more dangerous if Michael would have tried to go
to
> the outside or inside. BTW, why are drivers trying to take their car back
to
> the pits even when the engine has blown up and oil is running on the
track?
> In qualify was someone on the track (Jarno Trulli), trying to drive the
car
> back to the pits and he has chosen the best line to do it. Rubens
> Barrichello wasn't very happy about this and he has shown the driver about
> his feelings.

> It seems whenever Michael does something, it's wrong - no matter what he
> does. Why do you people have such a problem with him? Ayrton Senna wasn't
an
> angel too, but he is known as the best driver in the world. He has done
some
> stupid things in his career too, but it seems in Michael's case everything
> is stupid.
> He IS the best driver in the moment and if you have a problem to deal with
> it I can't help you. You don't have to like him, but is it too much to ask
> for a little respect? Well, it seems it is.
> Have you ever talked with Michael Schumacher? Have you ever seen him in
> private? All I can say that he is a great driver and that I don't know
> enough of the person Michael Schumacher to make my own judgement about
him.
> Why is it so difficult to respect one of the most succesful drivers in the
> history of F1. It seems there are the same problems with Jeff Gordon in
> NASCAR. Are they just too succesful?

> --
> Have several nice days !!!

> Michael Heymanns
> Team-Manager SRG

> IWSC Champion 2000
> IPSC GT-Champion 2000
> TPTCC Champion 1999
> TPTCC Champion 2000
> TPTCC Champion 2001

> www.srg-group.de
> www.teamsrg.de
> www.tptcc.de

> 1&1 Profiseller
> www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791


> > Agree that they needed to red flag the race, way too much debris on
> > the track. But did you see how MS turned his car onto the middle of
> > the track? He was headed for the gravel, then turned hard right to end
> > up in the middle of the track. Obviously an attempt to get the race
> > red-flagged which didn't work, because they moved his car fairly
> > quickly. He was lucky that enough debris was spread to bring out the
> > red flags.

> > On another point, why didn't he drive right off the track when he
> > stopped the second time? Very strange thing to do when there's so much
> > grassed area available.

> > Rafe Mc


> > >Of course, there are some(including myself) who are upset that Mika
> wasn't
> > >given the advantage of a red flag to get in the backup car... :(
> > >Granted, I agree the flag should have been thrown today.  But, it
should
> also
> > >have been thrown earlier this season...

> > >Eldred

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jalo

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by jalo » Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:28:22

It looked like to me, that he lost his drive after he made his start. It
looked like he was going to try to block out Mika when he lost his drive.
Thats what it looked like from my point of view. I'll watch it again when
they replay it tonight.

jalo

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by jalo » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 00:33:47

He is reckless then! Those cars do not work well going sideways.

It's kind of funny reading all the press. It seams that the Williams guy's
are praising Ralf, while the BMW guy's are defending JPM. It's almost like
reading about 2 different teams.

Txl

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Txl » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 00:54:46

at the same time mixing "old-old" Germany (Nazi), "old" Germany (East) and
"new" China on the athletes superiority...

That was 1 hell of a message...

Besides that I still love F1RC and I enjoy playing it a lot.



> Becaue no one in the world can beat them.

> BTW, if enough Americans wanted to dominate soccer world wide, they would.
> We have a very large population with a mix of different types of athletes
> (huge factor) who receive the highest level of training. We aren't better
> people, but we do have the best athletes.

> David G Fisher



> >> I didn't know about this point but why do they call themselves WORLD
> > champions ??

Michael Heymann

Spoiler - Hockenheim GP

by Michael Heymann » Wed, 01 Aug 2001 01:28:31

What I meant is that a lot of people are saying that Senna was the best
driver in the world. I personally think it's hard to compare, because you
always need a good car to have success.
I can't say who the best driver is, but one thing is fact: If Michael
continues with racing for some more years (he has signed a contract with
Ferrari til 2004) he will be on top nearly every statistic and I'm sure we
will have than a second driver who has won the championship five times or
even more.

--
Have several nice days !!!

Michael Heymanns
Team-Manager SRG

IWSC Champion 2000
IPSC GT-Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 1999
TPTCC Champion 2000
TPTCC Champion 2001

www.srg-group.de
www.teamsrg.de
www.tptcc.de

1&1 Profiseller
www.profiseller.de/shop/P1672791




> > It seems whenever Michael does something, it's wrong - no matter what he
> > does. Why do you people have such a problem with him? Ayrton Senna
wasn't
> an
> > angel too, but he is known as the best driver in the world. He has done
> some
> > stupid things in his career too, but it seems in Michael's case
everything
> > is stupid.
> > He IS the best driver in the moment and if you have a problem to deal
with
> > it I can't help you. You don't have to like him, but is it too much to
ask
> > for a little respect? Well, it seems it is.
> > Have you ever talked with Michael Schumacher? Have you ever seen him in
> > private? All I can say that he is a great driver and that I don't know
> > enough of the person Michael Schumacher to make my own judgement about
> him.
> > Why is it so difficult to respect one of the most succesful drivers in
the
> > history of F1. It seems there are the same problems with Jeff Gordon in
> > NASCAR. Are they just too succesful?

>         It looks like people who like Ayrton Senna are very young and
didn't
> actualy watched F1 when Senna began. F1 was a first class noble sport.
> Drivers liked to think about themselfs as gentelmens, and acted like that.
> Then came Senna. He was most arrogant driver F1 has ever seen. Nobody
> liked him. It was allways dangerous to drive in front of him. He simply
ran
> into everybody. When he cuoldn't overtake with his driving ability, and
that
> was most of the time, he used brute force. The rael drivers couldn't stand
> it, and were disgusted with that. The real drivers used driving bravoures
> like MS is doing today. But in those days young drivers stayed away if
they
> hadn't experience to answer to that. Didn't just run into good drivers
back
> like thay run into MS's back today.
>         BTW, Senna cannot be the best driver in the world if he is less
> succesful than MS, but drove in better cars than MS is driveing today. It
> simply isn't logical.
>         BTW (2), Senna had only 41 wins out of 65 poles. Second number
> usualy tells you about cars ability. Diference between second and first
> tells you about drivers ability. It is -24, and by far the worst of all
> drivers. MS have 50 wins out of 40 poles. That's +10.
>         BTW (3), Senna realy is the best driver in rain.


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