rec.autos.simulators

>> could last fifty years or more?>>

>> I wasn't aware that*** Cheney launched the attacks on 9/11 (or is
>> that a *** you also hold?)

> Sorry, Randy, straw man argument.

> Cheney said it - do you agree or disagree? I made no allegation about him
> and 9/11, so why are you trying to put down an argument I never made?

>> I realize you don't live in the USA, but I'm wondering just what civil
>> liberties you claim we've lost?  Can you name even a single case where
>> some innocent American has lost any civil rights because of this
>> administration?

> Well, far be it from me to comment on your laws, but Amendment IV says;

> "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,
> and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be
> violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported
> by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be
> searched, and the persons or things to be seized"

> The Patriot Act (LOL, well named) allows the police to come into your
> home, search, leave without telling you. The Federal Intelligence
> Surveillance Act allows warrants from special courts, looking into such
> ridiculous items as what library books were read, again without
> notification.

> Just a couple of example of new laws ***ling all over just one amendment
> to your bill of rights. We're no better off over here unfortunately.

>  >>>Our own corporations kill more every year in the name of profit,

>> peddling tobacco and fat/sugar laden ***for the populace to later die
>> from.

>> And undboutedly they are over here forcing our mouths open and making
>> us eat every bite.  They are just coming into our homes at dinner times
>> and prying open our mouths and ***ing us.  Every seller needs a
>> buyer.  Not sure why you remove free choice from the equation.  You're
>> not one of those victim mentality types who think that we aren't
>> responsible for anything we do, that we're all just victims of
>> corporations?  Sounds kinda like you are...

> I have no victim mentality - I make sure I'm not a victim. The point is
> that "free choice" is a myth for the most part.

> Okay, let's take just an example. I show you succulent chicken, couple of
> bucks, "special offer" tasty chicken ***. You might buy it. If I told
> you the chicken came from Indonesia, was shipped via Holland where it was
> injected with 50% water to make it bigger, injected with collagen to hold
> the water, injected with pig DNA to retain the collagen, and processed in
> *** water to remove feathers etc, and had a high probability to be
> infected with campylobacter....would you still buy it? How about if you
> were moslem, and hadn't been given the information you were actually
> eating pig?

> Fact is that it probably is (more than 80% of the world's chicken comes
> from three companies, much of it processed in this way). You have the
> "free choice" to buy this, but you are usually not furnished with the full
> facts with which to properly exercise that free choice.

>> What left wing web site did you get those figures from?  And what did
>> you do to ensure that the figures were indeed accurate?

> The "left wing" website of the United Nations. From your government. From
> my government. From journalist reports. From news. It's almost 11 million
> children per year, and a very widely known statistic. I suggest you
> contact those organisations and let them know you dispute it.

>>>>Iraqi children are dying from cancers caused by OUR depleted uranium
>> shells

>> I'll be looking for your objective citation backing this up as well.

> I know you can use Google....

> http://www.racesimcentral.net/+children+canc...

>> Hey Saddam managed  to buy weaponry from the French and Russians during
>> the embargo...why didn't he buy medicine if the 'evil' US and Britain
>> were stopping him.

> You may say he bought weapons, but since we failed to find any I don't
> think we can say this with any certainty. Or do you think he just let his
> children die to teach us a lesson? Or to boost his popularity?

> > I'm sure the French and Russians would have happily
>> sold some to him for the proper oil-for-food profits to corrupt
>> individuals (why is it that the left never acknowledges that the
>> French, Russians and Germans were on the take from Saddam, and that
>> Saddam's oil-for-food money was not getting to his own population - but
>> I suppose you'll just deny that, too).

> The oil-for-food "profits" went first of all to Kuwait (one of the richest
> countries in the world) as compensation for war damage. A third of the
> money went to pay UN "expenses" (I thought we paid out of tax, but there
> you go), further money goes to Kuwait as mentioned, further money goes as
> compensation to oil and other companies. and with the remainder Iraq would
> tender on the international markets for food, medical supplies etc - every
> contract then had to be approved by the UN sanctions committee. From
> August 1990, for eight months, ALL IMPORTS were banned, including food and
> medicine, despite these being explicitly allowed under resolution 661.

> Have you heard of Denis Halliday? He was the Assistant Secretary-General
> of the UN, and resigned over the sanctions. He said "I had been instructed
> to implement a policy that satisfies the definition of genocide: a
> deliberate policy that has deliberately killed over a million
> individuals".

> His successor, Hans von Spooneck, calculated the oil-for-food money, and
> after paying Kuwait, the UN, oil companies etc, Iraq was left with $100
> for each citizen....per YEAR. That money has to pay also for
> infrastructure including oil, water, electricity etc. After that he also
> called the sanctions "genocide".

> But hey, it's a million Iraqis dying, so it doesn't matter...right?

> You are just a font of disinformation today.

> I said "ALMOST half of ONE town in SOUTHER IRAQ are FORECAST to CONTRACT
> cancer in the coming years". You read "half of the Iraqi population will
> die from cancer"!!??

> Almost half does not equal all.
> One town in Souther Iraq does not equal the entire Iraqi population
> Contract does not equal die

> So you got "cancer" right, and the entire rest of the sentence wrong. What
> the heck happens when you go to the shop to ask for a pint of milk? The
> mind boggles as to what you must come back with ;-)

> By the way, do you have information to prove the Basra cancer facts wrong?
> I base this on first-hand jourmalistic and medical evidence. On what do
> you base your belief that it's wrong?

> No-one is saying the sky has disappeared.

> If you dropped an egg on the floor and there was no shell as you cleaned
> it up, I'm guess you'd be fine with that.

> Don't ever question your government, there's a good citizen.

> >    Only a Euro could twist facts about any subject into being a
> > "philosophical question."

> Only you could fail to see that EVERYTHING revolves around your
> philosophy on life.

> Your world has clearly not yet evolved into colour.

> >   Suggest you do some research into history too.  I don't buy the "when
oil
> > runs out, etc." moonbat theories you mention, but history has shown
people
> > don't "come together" when times are bad, as you suggest will happen
when
> > oil runs out.
> >   The opposite in fact.

> So you believe everyone will reach for their Colt 45 "the gun that won
> the West", slaughter each other....and that will....make the oil come
> back? Protect you from the 1 billion Chinese who will slaughter you? Or
> the 1.3 billion Indians who will slaughter them?

> For your own sake you better start singing kumbaya and praying you're
> wrong. Nuclear missiles go nowhere without oil.

> >   p.s.  Wasn't it Europeans tied in with the oil/food scam ?  Why yes,
it
> > was.  As long as you brought up the UN, etc.

> Wasn't it Americans tied in with the oil/food/sanctions genocide?
> Massacring millions of innocent people to give them their freedom? As
> the saying goes, that's like f***ing for ***ity....

> >>>I'm continually baffled that you can't grasp the simple concept of
> >>>innocence and guilt.  What crime has Terri Schaivo commited that earns
> >>>her a death penalty?  What crime is an unborn infant guilty of?  I'm
> >>>not sure why the concept of not punishing the innocent is so baffling
> >>>to you...but that will remain one of the mysteries of life.

> >>So I presume you stood against Madelaine Albright's view that the
> >>killing of half a million children in Iraq was "a price worth paying"?
> >>Terri Schiavo, in comparison, is not even worthy of mention.

> >>Sometimes Stalin really did say it best

> >   Cite for the Albright quote ?

> Interview with Lesley Stahl on CBS "we think the price is worth it".

> >>>>I'm continually baffled that you can't grasp the simple concept of
> >>>>innocence and guilt.  What crime has Terri Schaivo commited that earns
> >>>>her a death penalty?  What crime is an unborn infant guilty of?  I'm
> >>>>not sure why the concept of not punishing the innocent is so baffling
> >>>>to you...but that will remain one of the mysteries of life.

> >>>So I presume you stood against Madelaine Albright's view that the
> >>>killing of half a million children in Iraq was "a price worth paying"?
> >>>Terri Schiavo, in comparison, is not even worthy of mention.

> >>>Sometimes Stalin really did say it best

> >>  Cite for the Albright quote ?

> >   Didn't think so.  Figures.

> It's now posted - sorry my life got in the way of your predjudice.

> It takes two seconds on Google to find anything - you could have easily
> found it yourself. Are people soooooo comfortable in their predjudice
> that they won't even challenge their own ideas? I constantly challenge
> mine, and despair for the human race if we ever give that up.

> >    To bad Iraq invaded Kuwait then, eh ?  Never would have happened if
not.

> To <sic> bad the CIA put the Ba'ath party and Saddam Hussein in power
> then, eh? Then you wouldn't have paid to put him in power, and paid for
> two wars to get him out.

>> JFYI, this is just the lovely, lovely mechanisms of capitalism: Demand
>> and Availability. LOL!!!

>> I eagerly await the times when oil is so expensive that you americans
>> will have to let your SUV in the garage and take the bus to work. I
>> *eagerly* await it! And it is not that far off in the future either!!!

>> Gas prices are escalating as well, and have reached a point in US where
>> people start converting to other heating sources. However, this is not
>> OPEC's fault, simply because they don't control the market. The prices
>> get high because everyone needs it, there is less and less of it, and US
>> is the biggest consumer on the planet. And while you americans are
>> concerned with your oil prices, this planet goes to rot, and you ignore
>> the facts like ignorant heedless children do.

> Amen, well said.

> Ram the free market down everyone's throat, then scream and moan when
> supply and demand pushed oil over $1/gallon. (Then just "fix it" by
> invading Iraq, Iran (oops, sorry, not yet), change Afghanistan government,
> etc.

> By the way, when you guys go to invade Iran, I'm *really, really* sorry
> about all the chemical weapons we Brits sold them. Just in case that is
> used as a justification (WMDs and all that), we sold them to Iram after
> (9/11). I know Bush was talking about "axis of evil" and all that, but
> money is money, y'know...

> Sorry Mitch, that just isn't true

> The UN set a target of 0.7% of GDP should be given as aid - this target
> was recently increased in response to public demands to resolve the
> tragedies occurring daily in Africa.

> Top of the foreign aid league is Denmark (1.01% of GDP), and Sweden,
> Norway and the Netherlands also meet the target. The US gives 0.1% of GDP
> as aid, as former President Carter described, "we are the stingiest nation
> of all". We're little better, Britain gives just 0.34%.

> In the last foreign aid bill passed in the US, 75 million was passed for
> aif to poor countries (this amounts to one tenth the cost of a B-52!). In
> the same budget, 1.3 *BILLION* was approved to support the Colombian
> military (who have one of the world's worst records for human rights
> violations).

> > Im not saying this in
> > an egotistical way Im saying this in defensive way.  The US (despite
> your
> > clouded nonsense) is a great country and a great collection of people
> that
> > want the best for the World and everyone in it.

> Mitch, I *truly* believe that is what you and most US people want, and
> it's a fantastic sentiment. However that is not what is happening.

>>   The fact you seem to admire him Ziggy...is frightening.

> Dave, please can you explain to me how citing a very famous quote of
> Stalin's which fits a context, can be interpreted that the person is a
> raving commie?

> You should join the CIA - you may in fact be a touch overqualified.