rec.autos.simulators

> If he was banned from driving online (on WON), that's kinda over the
> top, but if it's only Papy servers, well, that's their call, and I can't
> argue with it at all.

> > If you have consistently bad judgment and take out half the field every
time
> > you race, even if it is unintentional, you should be banned IMHO.  Some
> > people learn to race online at the expense of others when they could be
> > taking out the AI.  Not very nice if you ask me :)

> > > Even if that were the case, bad judgement is still not the same as
> > > intentionally wrecking.  Maybe he waited too long to move to the low
> > > line, and as I recall his description of the front stretch incident,
> > > that is a typical scenario of events when you make a mistake.  Without
> > > seeing the replay, we can't make a valid call on it one way or the
> > > other.

> --
> =========================================================
> Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity"
>   http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends
>   http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 (in development)
>   http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting)
>   http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown
> above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame.
> =========================================================

> The people at Papy Racing has now been banning people TOTALLY from
> racing online... if you are caught intentionally wrecking somone, they
> will ban your cd key which will not allow you to play online AT ALL.
> The offline version AI is so terrible... the online version is the
> only thing worth a crap to play.

> Anyways, I was pleading my case on the papy webpage Nascar 4
> Forum...and they banned me from there calmly stating the facts as to
> what they call "wrecking".

> here's their rules:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Guidelines For Reporting NASCAR? Racing 4
> Multiplayer Intentional Wrecking*

> *Please read this entire document thoroughly before you consider
> reporting an incident of intentional wrecking.

> In an effort to give the NASCAR? Racing 4 multiplayer user an avenue
> to report incidents of intentional wrecking, we will take reports if
> all guidelines are met that are outlined in this document. You will
> need to make sure that your report is of intentional wrecking and NOT
> the result of incidents related to accidents caused by warp, unskilled
> drivers, or plain old "racing incidents".

> Because we only have a small amount of time to devote to reviewing
> these reports, if we end up getting flooded with reports that are not
> incidents of intentional wrecking, we will be forced to discontinue
> this line of communication. So, please make sure that your report is
> legitimate. If it is determined that a report is not legitimate, we
> will no longer accept reports from that individual.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Well makes sense to me (even though I ALWAYS thought banning people to
> race their game online was not good business practice and bad
> morally).
> So I emailed papy to ask why I was banned since I have NEVER IN MY
> LIFE in a multiplayer game intentionally gone after to wreck someone.
> Ya see, in this game they have built in a nice Ratings feature...
> where the better driver you are.. you have a higher ranking 0-10 and
> LPI (laps per incident).  My ratings were VERY high for both... which
> that should have triggered them into knowing I am not a wrecker.

> Anyways, they responded, very rudely I might add (i still have the
> emails)... and at least they were kind enough to send me the replay
> from which they banned me from.

> As I go home and watch the replay (which I still have if ANYONE WANTS
> TO VIEW IT)... I am TOTALLY AMAZED for 2 reasons
> #1 - I have a majorly damaged car trying to just complete some laps
> and in the replay it shows me racing about 5 or 6 laps... and the
> field is spread out and goes by me about 2 different times... every
> car that passes me I give them TONS of room to pass making no contact.
> #2 - (here's the good part) - THERE WASN'T EVEN A WRECK!!!!!!!

> here's what they call me a wrecker from:
> As I come off of turn 2 (at Lowe's Speedway) I drift up high... lookin
> in my rear view mirrow I see the leaders coming fast up behind me
> (since I am off pace)... so I do the smart think (i thought) since the
> racing line is up near the wall down the backstretch... I quickly dove
> to the bottom apron on the straightstretch to let the lead cars pass
> me... what happen was either my reaction time was too slow and/or the
> leaders were flying cause unfortunately as I was going low to let them
> pass, the leader dives low to dodge me... basically we end up in the
> same area trying to get out of the way of each other.
> So what happens... well, I dive down and his car hits mine in the left
> rear which spins me out into the inside wall... what happened to him
> you ask.. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING he kept racing without any damage to his
> car!!!

> Ok so at this point... I have a damaged race car with more damage
> (haha)... as people continue to drop out of the race and with only a
> few laps left (and since the rating system is setup like it is) I had
> to complete a few more laps to help my score.  So I kept going... and
> continue to let the cars pass me with tons of room over and over
> again.  Towards the end of the replay... I have to hit the apron on
> turn 4 dodging a wrecked car stopped in the racing groove... when
> coming off of the apron... i shoot up high obviously, and brush the
> wall coming off of 4, which in return bouces me off a lil which the
> frontstretch at lowes is fairly narrow and makes a close call with
> another car...but yet again NO CONTACT IS MADE and no wreck occured.
> Ironically this car that I came close to again was the same car as
> before (which they claim I wrecked) so from that they ASSUMED I was
> out to wreck him intentionally.

> With my ratings and laps per incident so high, I would be an idiot to
> go wrecking people screwing up my numbers that I had worked so hard to
> get... but they don't see it that way I guess.

> Now, the ONLY WAY I can get back to race online is to go out and buy a
> new game which is totally ridiculous in my opinion.   See, my thinking
> is NO ONE should be banned from using a part of the game that is the
> best part... they design a rating system to keep the good drivers away
> from the wreckers... only problem is it doesn't work as they thought
> it would... so instead of fixing it again (they already redid it once
> in the first patch), they start banning people totally from racing
> online, for good.

> I suggested just simply resetting those "so-called" wreckers back to
> the rating of 0 and have them start all over again, and if they were
> still a good driver, they woud build their rating back up.  They
> responded again rudely against that.

> I have all the emails they have sent along with the replay if any of
> you with Nascar 4 is interested in viewing it.  I have no problem
> showing anyone, because simply I am not a wrecker and in the replay,
> although there being close calls, there was NO WRECK.

> I am just baffled by all of this... and because of this, it concerns
> me that others online may become banned eventually for something papy
> may see as an "intentional wreck" but is simply not the case.

> Wanta hear something else bad... well I am (or should I say was) in
> this racing league... and was getting very serious and competitive
> about it... so since the Nascar 4 games eats up a system (i had a
> pentium 3 500 w/ 128mb ram and 20gb hard drive) I decided to buy a new
> computer now instead of waiting on down the road(AMD 1.4ghz, 256mb
> ram, 64mb geforce 2 video card) and a new Nascar Pro 2 racing wheel
> and pedals from thrustmaster.  Bascially I would not have had to buy a
> new computer if I wasn't into racing online in the league so much...
> but now that I am banned... well you get what I'm saying.  :(

> I have been a MAJOR Papy fan since the Nascar Racing 1 days,
> purchasing every nascar racing game and expansion pack all the way up
> through Nascar 4.  Now, I might have to go for an EA Sports Nascar
> game just to race online.

> If ANYONE would like to see the replay they sent me of the "wreck the
> never happened" and/or the emails from Papy's manager... please email
> me at dcibra...@yahoo.com and I would be happy to send them to you. :)

> Anyone wanta comment on this...or banning in general?
> email papy's manager at online....@papy.com

> thanks for your time!

> BH
> Dodgefan!

>> Let's start a new protected-class:  Bad drivers!

> Problem is, they're not a minority out there! <g>

> --

> Fester

>> Ya that will be cheaper than $50.  LMAO      Just bite the bullet and
>> explain your case to Papy, if they don't like it, and racing online is
>> that important to you go buy another copy of the game.  Live and
>> Learn!

> ... and return the first or sell it on e-bay.

> | Did anyone ever search R.A.S.'s history for his name? I searched the
> | archives and this is the ONLY topic he's ever started or replied to. To
> me,
> | his comments don't have much credibility. Plus, if you've race NASCAR 1,
> 2,
> | 3, and 4 in a league, I would have thought by now you'd know you have to
> | hold your line? I'm 14 and I've known that since I started playing games
> | online about 3 years ago. It's common sense. If you have that much
> | experience did you ever learn from previous incidents from not holding
> your
> | line? Do you watch *any* type of racing? It's evident in all types.
> |
> | Though I do think Papy's decision was a bit extreme, I'm going to try
> Yahoo
> | IM'ing you to see if I can get that replay file, and is the replay your
> | going to send the one you got banned for?
> |
> | That's another reason, as we don't know his legitimacy, he could be
> sending
> | us a replay from a race where he didn't intentionally wreck. There is
> really
> | no way to tell if this guy is being sincere or not, but to me, it all
> seems
> | a bit shady.
> |
> | Thanks,
> | Alex
> |


> | > Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.nascar
> | > Subject: Nascar 4 Racing (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!
> | > NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.89.253.3

> <snipped>

> ---
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> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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> >The people at Papy Racing has now been banning people TOTALLY from
> >racing online... if you are caught intentionally wrecking somone, they
> >will ban your cd key which will not allow you to play online AT ALL.  

> HIP HIP HOORAY!!

> But: very sorry to hear the rest of your unfortunate story. I would
> have thought the 'total ban' would be for people who are REALLY REALLY
> REALLY obviously spoiling the fun, by ignoring every rule, driving the
> wrong way, ramming one car after another.. and your story certainly
> does not fall into that category :(

> Pickup races with N4 are a nightmare, the main reason I put N4 on my
> shelf and went back to GPL (ok, I also hate ovals :)
> So while I applaud the efforts of Papy to keep online racing clean,
> warnings should be given first in dubious cases are yours was,
> certainly since you emailed them and explained them the situation.

> Hope this situation gets resolved in a civilized manner for you..

> Andre