rec.autos.simulators

by **Morgan V. Woote** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:19:26

I definitely think it's unfair to stop people from using the product they
paid for. That's essentially what they're doing. Now, if there are other
good servers to race on besides Sierra's then it's a moot point. I guess it
would be anyway. I assume you'd only be banned from Sierra's servers, not
from online racing in general.

Anyway, I think you should fight Papyrus on this. Total lack of common sense
and good judgement on thier part.

--

-------------------------------------
Morgan Vincent Wooten
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~morganv00/
-------------------------------------

> Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.nascar
> Subject: Nascar 4 Racing (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.89.253.3

> The people at Papy Racing has now been banning people TOTALLY from
> racing online... if you are caught intentionally wrecking somone, they
[carp]
> Anyone wanta comment on this...or banning in general?

> thanks for your time!

> BH
> Dodgefan!

by **Mike Grand** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:27:43

He was banned from the Sierra.com matching servers. That includes anyone
that posts a race or runs a server on the Sierra.com matching servers. If
you look at the box it says nothing about Papyrus providing servers for
anyone to race on, only that multiplayer support up to 43 players over LAn
or Internet.

Mike Grandy
Proud Member of Precision Racing Internet Race Team
3 A Champion Forever-Godspeed Dale

I definitely think it's unfair to stop people from using the product they
paid for. That's essentially what they're doing. Now, if there are other
good servers to race on besides Sierra's then it's a moot point. I guess it
would be anyway. I assume you'd only be banned from Sierra's servers, not
from online racing in general.

Anyway, I think you should fight Papyrus on this. Total lack of common sense
and good judgement on thier part.

--

-------------------------------------
Morgan Vincent Wooten
http://home.earthlink.net/~morganv00/
-------------------------------------

> Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.nascar
> Subject: Nascar 4 Racing (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 164.89.253.3

> The people at Papy Racing has now been banning people TOTALLY from
> racing online... if you are caught intentionally wrecking somone, they
[carp]
> Anyone wanta comment on this...or banning in general?

> thanks for your time!

> BH
> Dodgefan!

by **Ian Bel** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:18:19

Dodgefan, I see no logic whatsoever why you would cut down the track like
that. The leader had already exited the turn slower than he could to keep a
low line to avoid you. There was no reason for you to dive down save to
wreck him.

Sorry, but I don't believe your explanation, the whole incident just smacks
of malice. If you did that to me I would have reported you.

I would like to see a longer replay too.

Ian Bell

Proud member of http://www.uk-racing.net

Get my F1RC setups and track guides at http://race-simulator.com

GP3, F12000 setups at http://www.bhmotorsports.com

by **Darrin Steven** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:40:40

Time to buck up and buy another copy of N4, a good lesson if you asked me.
Nothing else works so hit em in the pocket book.

--

Darrin Stevens
www.Stevens-Racing.com
www.TeamECR.com
www.SimRaceCar.com
www.Thomas-SuperWheel.com

> Remember... I didn't HIT anyone... he kept on going.

> Yes, I was having a major bad race...I totally admit that... my car
> was almost completely destroyed...and not to mention it WAS my
> fault... but TOTALLY NOT INTENTIONAL!!! I don't even know who that
> guy was... and I would have no reason to go after him. and by the
> way... the sharp turns are due to a blown tire which with only a few
> laps left I wanted to make it around the track to keep from losing
> those valuable spots with the freakin ratings system haha

> By the way guys... I was at a 7 rating... so prob. right up there with
> the guy "whoever he was" that I so-called went after. I wouldn't go
> wrecking people with that kind of rating that I had worked my ***off
> for also. I'm in a big league as well... so why haven't they got rid
> of me if I'm a wrecker?

> If I was going after to wreck him.... believe me... i would have come
> off the turn LOW and then swerved up high to put him into the wall
> like most do me lol

> I also noticed when I rewatched the replay some of my "sharp turns"
> are for warping wrecked cars sitting on the track as well.

> Ya know.. I don't remember wreckers being such a problem in N3...
> maybe this rating system is what has caused it all.

> oh yea one more problem... why didn't I just exit the race? well...
> papy designed it where you have to come to a complete stop to even
> exit the race which sucks.

> I appoligise for that guy that I swerved in front of... but i didn't
> wreck him... so that is why I didn't say anything to him.

> How does papy distinguish "Intentional Wrecking" rather than just
> something weird that COULD happen like steering wheel breaking (i had
> that happen to me a few months ago... the bungee inside the wheel
> snapped while turning at daytona... end up me taking out a lot of cars
> cause i was leading at the time)... or things that I hear other people
> say like.. "the phone rang"... "someone was at the door" ... "my kids
> were fighting"... "my kid/dog jumping into my lap".... heck
> personally... my montior even flickered off in one race back in the N3
> days.

> To me it's just called ONLINE RACING... people make mistakes... did
> any of you watch the Bristol race last night? Even real nascar driver
> do stupid things right?

> I am not saying it was not my fault cause it was... I'm not saying
> i've never been in a wreck either... cause God knows online racing,
> it's people sitting in front of a computer trying to be real drivers
> isn't gonna happen all the time.... what I AM SAYING is... NOTHING WAS
> INTENTIONAL....never has been and never will be.

> I have gotten more upset over all of this after the way papy acted...
> I think there are many other solutions rather than banning me
> permanently from racing online. We all know the offline AI....
> well... lets just say I've never raced a full race offline cause it is
> a waste of time.

> I am not the only one who has been banned on suspicion of being an
> intentional wrecker and is not... papy might be going just a lil too
> far on some things now.

> I'm tired of these "quick fixes" to solve everything... quit banning
> people and fix the game and the rating system to WORK the right way!!!

> oh well... i'll cya back online soon haha

> BH

- Show quoted text -

by **Don Burnett** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:57:55

Seems to me if it mattered that much for someone to be able to continue
racing online, they'd just go pick up another copy of the game and learn
from the experience.
Certainly, if it happened to me and it was a complete accident, I would
argue the decision with Papy, but if it held I would just go grab another
copy of the game if I wanted to continue racing on the Won service.

Don Burnette

> Well as much as I agree with Papy trying to clean up the racing a little
> bit, I do think that what they are doing is a bit harsh.

> 1. I do not think that they should ban someone from one report/incident.
> I think that a warning could be given (maybe put all the CD-Keys in a list
> that have a warning and when the person logs in the MOTD mentions to them
> that they have a warning) and then upon further incidents a ban may be
> necessary. I imagine that if this was you for a complete accident and
you
> were all of a sudden banned, your view may be different?

> 2. Why do they need to be banned from total online racing? Why not just
ban
> them from the Papy servers since those are the only ones that Papy is
> monitoring and to be quite honest, the only servers Papy should have any
say
> about.

> 3. Kinda leads from #2. I would not be surprised if Papy found
themselves
> in legal action for this. Can you honestly sell someone a game like this
> and then ban them from using it? I am not going to get into the EULA
> because according to that, you can not eat toast while playing N4.

> > Unfortuantely thats what I got out of it. I've probably even done it
> myself
> > unintentionally.

> > Mike Grandy
> > Proud Member of Precision Racing Internet Race Team
> > 3 A Champion Forever-Godspeed Dale

Grandy"

> > >If you think about it, theres a damaged car high coming off turn 2 and
> the
> > >leaders are coming up from behind. The lap car comes down across the
> track
> > >in front of the leaders and wrecks them. What does that look like to
you?

> > That's what I was thinking. From the description, it SOUNDS deliberate.
> > Viewing the replay, it would probably LOOK deliberate, too. Not saying
it
> > was,
> > but I think people can see why the victim would think so.

> > Eldred
> > --
> > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
> > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> > F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

> > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
> you
> > with experience...
> > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Goy Larse** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:03:53

> >If you go back and read the statement rrevved quoted to you, I think
> >you'll agree that it wasn't the most well thought out statement you've
> >ever seen :-)

> No, but then it wasn't meant to be. It was a deliberate reactionary
> statement. My *plonk* was a joke to rrevved because he is/used to be
> so fond of plonking people.

LOL, ok, nevermind...:-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com
http://www.teammirage.com

"A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Will DeRiver** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:04:11

Hey,

Only got a couple of things to say.

One...what the hell?! You lost a tire and kept going? No excuse for that.
Perhaps Papy needs to add a black flag for these situations...i'm pretty
sure NASCAR wouldn't allow a real driver to do that.

Two...Papy made it so you had to stop the car so people don't hit escape out
of the race and leave their car to go flingin' down the track, notice during
a race if you hit escape now, you can't go straight to the replay. It's
either 'get out of car' or 'call tow'. That is no excuse as well. You got a
problem....say, a blown tire...pit and fix it or get out of the race.

Fix the game? How 'bout you just learn to control the car? This incident has
nothing to do with what needs to be fixed in the game. I got a quick fix for
the ratings system, also. Yank it! If people like you can't keep their
fricken car under them and would rather stay out with a blown tire because
of the ratings sytem, then who needs it? Not me, the only racing i do (when
i ever race in the first place these days) is with leagues anyways because
of ***like this that goes on.
--
In memory of DE,
- Will
- M1MS
- http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Don Burnett** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:09:33

Agreed.
If my car was that bad, I would definitely have parked it, or dropped down
below the apron and called for a tow.
The only place this debate matters is between Hilton and Papy, and it
doesn't sound like Papy will budge on this matter.

Don Burnette

> Well BH you just said it yourself "my car was almost completely
> destroyed." Was it worth it to stay on the track? If you are/were
> a rated 7 then '15 extra laps' of racing damaged would have hurt
> your rating but again it is too late now..
> I undertsand your "frustration" but I also see the others opinion.
> Tuff call & thats up to the decsision makers.. Sorry pardner but
> it looks like you cut right in front of 'JM99' not matter what you
> sell here.. I am the last to be a 'hard azz' but you openly posted
> here and if many here see your replay, it doesnt look good..
> Good Luck -Thom_j.

> | Remember... I didn't HIT anyone... he kept on going.
> |
> | Yes, I was having a major bad race...I totally admit that... my car
> | was almost completely destroyed...and not to mention it WAS my
> | fault... but TOTALLY NOT INTENTIONAL!!! I don't even know who that
> | guy was... and I would have no reason to go after him. and by the
> | way... the sharp turns are due to a blown tire which with only a few
> | laps left I wanted to make it around the track to keep from losing
> | those valuable spots with the freakin ratings system haha
> |
> | By the way guys... I was at a 7 rating... so prob. right up there with
> | the guy "whoever he was" that I so-called went after. I wouldn't go
> | wrecking people with that kind of rating that I had worked my ***off
> | for also. I'm in a big league as well... so why haven't they got rid
> | of me if I'm a wrecker?
> |
> | If I was going after to wreck him.... believe me... i would have come
> | off the turn LOW and then swerved up high to put him into the wall
> | like most do me lol
> |
> | I also noticed when I rewatched the replay some of my "sharp turns"
> | are for warping wrecked cars sitting on the track as well.
> |
> | Ya know.. I don't remember wreckers being such a problem in N3...
> | maybe this rating system is what has caused it all.
> |
> | oh yea one more problem... why didn't I just exit the race? well...
> | papy designed it where you have to come to a complete stop to even
> | exit the race which sucks.
> |
> | I appoligise for that guy that I swerved in front of... but i didn't
> | wreck him... so that is why I didn't say anything to him.
> |
> | How does papy distinguish "Intentional Wrecking" rather than just
> | something weird that COULD happen like steering wheel breaking (i had
> | that happen to me a few months ago... the bungee inside the wheel
> | snapped while turning at daytona... end up me taking out a lot of cars
> | cause i was leading at the time)... or things that I hear other people
> | say like.. "the phone rang"... "someone was at the door" ... "my kids
> | were fighting"... "my kid/dog jumping into my lap".... heck
> | personally... my montior even flickered off in one race back in the N3
> | days.
> |
> | To me it's just called ONLINE RACING... people make mistakes... did
> | any of you watch the Bristol race last night? Even real nascar driver
> | do stupid things right?
> |
> | I am not saying it was not my fault cause it was... I'm not saying
> | i've never been in a wreck either... cause God knows online racing,
> | it's people sitting in front of a computer trying to be real drivers
> | isn't gonna happen all the time.... what I AM SAYING is... NOTHING WAS
> | INTENTIONAL....never has been and never will be.
> |
> | I have gotten more upset over all of this after the way papy acted...
> | I think there are many other solutions rather than banning me
> | permanently from racing online. We all know the offline AI....
> | well... lets just say I've never raced a full race offline cause it is
> | a waste of time.
> |
> | I am not the only one who has been banned on suspicion of being an
> | intentional wrecker and is not... papy might be going just a lil too
> | far on some things now.
> |
> | I'm tired of these "quick fixes" to solve everything... quit banning
> | people and fix the game and the rating system to WORK the right way!!!
> |
> | oh well... i'll cya back online soon haha
> |
> |
> | BH
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |

> | > Sadly B. Hilton I know the person you hit and yes you did hit
> | > him via the replay. He is an extremely serious racer and to me
> | > it does look like you just 'cut right into him' but this is not my
> | > call. Good luck but [for me] I would have to see more then a
> | > 14sec replay to see how you race & your style but JMichaels
> | > is super serious about his ICs & ratings!! I'd guess his rating
> | > is atleast an 6-8 or so?
> | > Btw: When you hit JMichaels, you gave him an IC. He was a
> | > major advocator of getting wreckers offline, IIRC?
> | > Good luck in your quest.. -Thom_j.
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > ---
> | > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> | > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.racesimcentral.net/).
> | > Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.racesimcentral.net/).
> Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/16/2001

by **B. Hilt** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:37:07

here's an interesting email someone sent me:

When I purchased the N4 software, the license agreement states that it
is a "feature" of the software that enables me to drive on the sierra
network. It does not say it is a "privilege". It also makes no
statement that feature functionality of the product can/will be
removed based upon the "opinion" of someone else as it relates to my
driving ability or my driving judgement. If I bought a new car, and
Chevy removed the radio after three months because in their opinion,
they didn't like the fact I played Perry Como CD's, I would be rather
upset.

This brings up a second point. I am not the only one that uses my CD
key in my household. The game has feature functionality built into it
in the player area that allows you to set up more than one player. It
holds the sierra account info in this separate player.ini file.

In my house I have two kids that are both old enough and qualified
enough to drive online. Both are rather good, with better ratings and
LPI than I have. LOL. However, in their online sessions, if they get
deemed to have intentionally caused an incident, on THEIR account,
with THEIR player profile loaded, I think it is quite wrong to ban the
CD Key for all players. It is apparent that Sierra and Papy can
distinguish what player was logged on, I feel they should ban the
player account, not the CD. Also, If they are going to monitor PAPY
servers, they should ban only for PAPy servers.

With the current policy, I could be hosting on MY server, with MY
purchased CD Key, on MY network and still be banned because of someone
else's OPINION that I or someone in my household performed in a manner
that caused an incident online.

I think Papy and Seirra need to take another look at this policy.

by **B. Hilt** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:38:39

people are aguing I should have held my line.... well, yea I prob
should have now that i know he was going low but....

From the Nascar 4 Forum - www.papy.com -
RULES FOR RACING ONLINE

10: If you've been damaged and are just slower than normal speed...
STAY OUT OF THE GROOVE! (Big pet peeve of mine) There's nothing worse
than realizing the guy in front of you is way too slow and in your
lane, and then trying to dodge him. Especially if he goes high to
avoid you and you go high to let him by.

11: If you are a lapped car, DO NOT race lead lap cars. Move out of
their way and catch on to the tail end of them. That way they're not
slowed down trying to get around you and you may actually be able to
pick up more positions. I had a guy hold me up for 10 laps at Tona
today, he was blocking every move I made. I finally got around him,
but by then our pack didn't have enough time to catch the leader.

EVERYONE has different ideas about how to race online... but that's
why they call it ONLINE RACING... if papy wants to set rules... they
need to do it from the start...and in great detail!!!

Ya know.. WE ALL are forgetting ONE THING
MAYBE THAT GUY SHOULD HAVE USED AUTOCHAT TOO
"Going Low...pls stay high" then maybe I would have known as well

there's just too many "what if's" to start banning people left and
right... the multiplayer is the only thing worth a ***in the game
haha... at least Heat is good on and off

by **Gregor Vebl** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:55:06

And the same goes for the word whole, as in:

;)

-Gregor

> PS. And of course "Blackhole" shouldn't be a banned word either :)

by **Gregor Vebl** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:58:06

Maybe a tough way to learn a lesson, but now you know that to appologize
when causing trouble is always the right way to go, even if it's
nonintentional and causes you to loose a second or two.

-Gregor

> I appoligise for that guy that I swerved in front of... but i didn't
> wreck him... so that is why I didn't say anything to him.

by **Joachim Trens** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 02:16:34

Guys,

I've gotten crashed out by wreckers so often that I am grateful to Papy for
having started taking action, and their anti-wrecker measures have had a
positive effect on the quality of the races on WON.

If Dodgefans' moves were just bad judgement, I'm sorry to hear he got
banned, but after reading his mail and watching the excerpt from the replay
Alex uploaded, I have to say that if this doesn't at least _look_ like
wrecking, then what should wrecking look like. Especially if you consider
that Dodgefan's mishaps always affected the same other driver.

If we want protection from wreckers, we'll have to accept the odd
mis-judgement. This is none different in 'real life'. We asked for measures
against wreckers to be taken, as we all were suffering from wreckers badly,
Papy decided to do us the favour although it's obviously an unpleasant job,
and IMHO we should thank them instead of letting them down when they're only
trying to help us.

I don't think Papy would mind good suggestions on how to improve the
situation, maybe use a 'second chance' type of system of punishments or
temporary bans (2 months on first offence, 6 months on second?). But
starting to muse about legal action when Papy is only trying to help us is
not the way to go.

Achim

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 02:24:25

one thing about the escape key. In N3 if youhit the escape key, your car
would still be on the track, in the way and a big problem. Until you exited
the race totally your car is a menace.
dave henrie

> I think what he means is this.. imagine that you are going into turn 3 at
> michigan and you spin your car.

> Your car is now in the way of others. Well a few things could happen
here.
> One, others could go slamming into you, call you a intentional wrecker and
> maybe you are the next on the banned list.

> Personally, if I slammed into the wall and I was coming off the wall in
> front of traffic and I knew my day was pretty much over, I would quickly
hit
> ESC, get out of their way and get out of the race. You can not do that
> now, the way it is now, you could easily cause a 5-6 car pileup before you
> can stop the car and get out of it.

> > Go to your Pit Stall and sit There for rest of race?? DUH?

> > --
> > R.I.P. - William Joseph Dunlop OBE MBE 2/25/52 - 7/2/2000

by **Eddie Petti** » Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:29:49

> In my house I have two kids that are both old enough and qualified
> enough to drive online. Both are rather good, with better ratings and
> LPI than I have. LOL.

Poor kids...

--
Looking for some good online Nascar 4 Racing?
Join the Stock Car Pro Racing Club. http://www.scprc.com
Racing on Sundays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Fridays,
starting at ~10:15 PM Eastern for ~1.5 hours

rec.autos.simulators

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS

Nascar Racing 4 (PAPY) BANNED ME FROM RACING ONLINE!!!! - READ THIS