rec.autos.simulators

> So why do we do it? Because it's possible I presume. I would like Papy to
> offer a small patch which turns off the auto clutch and the auto blip so we
> could do some real heel and toeing (or inside out as I do it). This would
> really make things far more realistic and the times as well probably. The
> only problem is that not many people have more that two pedals, but for
> those who have it would be great, don't you think?

> I would have rearrange my Logi brake pedal and F1 Sim throttle so I could
> heel and toe but that won't too much of a problem. I'll start using it from
> now on.

> Oh and anyone wondering about the status of my little sim it's going very
> slowly but I'm right on it. In about 5 years time I'll have a rolling car.

> Harjan.

> I don't know if this was the case in 1967, but in my FFord it was fine to just
> bang up and down the 'box without using the clutch. In fact it was better to do
> it that way. Of course, you have to lift off the accelerator when you are
> shifting, as you do in GPL (in advanced damage modes).

> If I ever drive a 1967 F1 car, I'll let you know if this is possible...

>So why do we do it? Because it's possible I presume. I would like Papy to
>offer a small patch which turns off the auto clutch and the auto blip so we
>could do some real heel and toeing (or inside out as I do it). This would
>really make things far more realistic and the times as well probably. The
>only problem is that not many people have more that two pedals, but for
>those who have it would be great, don't you think?

> If I ever drive a 1967 F1 car, I'll let you know if this is possible...

> > Us GPL fans are all very proud of our hunger for realism but yet almost
all
> > of us use one very big cheat when driving the car. There's nobody being
a
> > hotlapper using the clutch, by doing that we can do left foot braking at
> > almost every part of the track which is totally unrealistic. Even in
modern
> > racing left foot braking isn't a common good, it's used in F1, Rally and
on
> > ovals.

> > So why do we do it? Because it's possible I presume. I would like Papy
to
> > offer a small patch which turns off the auto clutch and the auto blip so
we
> > could do some real heel and toeing (or inside out as I do it). This
would
> > really make things far more realistic and the times as well probably.
The
> > only problem is that not many people have more that two pedals, but for
> > those who have it would be great, don't you think?

> > I would have rearrange my Logi brake pedal and F1 Sim throttle so I
could
> > heel and toe but that won't too much of a problem. I'll start using it
from
> > now on.

> > Oh and anyone wondering about the status of my little sim it's going
very
> > slowly but I'm right on it. In about 5 years time I'll have a rolling
car.

> > Harjan.

> --
> Rob Swindells
> [Rob Swindells Racing] http://swindells.8m.com
> "Add life to your days, not days to your life."
> "The greatest substitute for talent is hard work."
> "Doing it, is better than watching it, is better than simulating it."
> "I may not be perfect, but parts of me are excellent."

> If I ever drive a 1967 F1 car, I'll let you know if this is possible...

> > Us GPL fans are all very proud of our hunger for realism but yet almost
all
> > of us use one very big cheat when driving the car. There's nobody being
a
> > hotlapper using the clutch, by doing that we can do left foot braking at
> > almost every part of the track which is totally unrealistic. Even in
modern
> > racing left foot braking isn't a common good, it's used in F1, Rally and
on
> > ovals.

> > So why do we do it? Because it's possible I presume. I would like Papy
to
> > offer a small patch which turns off the auto clutch and the auto blip so
we
> > could do some real heel and toeing (or inside out as I do it). This
would
> > really make things far more realistic and the times as well probably.
The
> > only problem is that not many people have more that two pedals, but for
> > those who have it would be great, don't you think?

> > I would have rearrange my Logi brake pedal and F1 Sim throttle so I
could
> > heel and toe but that won't too much of a problem. I'll start using it
from
> > now on.

> > Oh and anyone wondering about the status of my little sim it's going
very
> > slowly but I'm right on it. In about 5 years time I'll have a rolling
car.

> > Harjan.

> --
> Rob Swindells
> [Rob Swindells Racing] http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> "Add life to your days, not days to your life."
> "The greatest substitute for talent is hard work."
> "Doing it, is better than watching it, is better than simulating it."
> "I may not be perfect, but parts of me are excellent."

> >Us GPL fans are all very proud of our hunger for realism but yet almost all
> >of us use one very big cheat when driving the car. There's nobody being a
> >hotlapper using the clutch, by doing that we can do left foot braking at
> >almost every part of the track which is totally unrealistic. Even in modern
> >racing left foot braking isn't a common good, it's used in F1, Rally and on
> >ovals.

> >So why do we do it? Because it's possible I presume. I would like Papy to
> >offer a small patch which turns off the auto clutch and the auto blip so we
> >could do some real heel and toeing (or inside out as I do it). This would
> >really make things far more realistic and the times as well probably. The
> >only problem is that not many people have more that two pedals, but for
> >those who have it would be great, don't you think?

>     I agree with you that it would be a good thing to have the autoclutch
> disabled.  However, I think there's only a couple of controlers out there
> that have a clutch incorporated right now as you mentioned.  Once there's a
> lot of controlers with clutches Then turning the autoclutch off would help
> realism.  In my opinion, untill the avalibility of clutch use is programmed
> in to many racing sims, I don't think controler manufacturers will make them
> a standerd issue.  Then add in the transition where more and more Race Sims
> have the clutch avalibility, Controler manufacturers will only have a clutch
> expantion pack or add on feature.  Again In my opinion, That transition
> period will last at least 4 years with the clutch being standerd issue with
> all controlers in the 5th year (2005 or 6).  Then what about ware on the
> pots.  Once the pot is worn down, during the peddel travel it'll get to the
> point where the clutch will give you a on/off then on/off then on/off effect
> making the lever clutch usless.  Unless there's a penilty fo some kind such
> as grinding gears and *** brake downs.

>     One more issue would be changing gears while at speed.  A button would
> work a whole lot quicker then a lever/peddel.  So, to gain an extra 0.1 per
> shift with the benifit of over a second per lap... I'd set up a lever for
> starts and a button for at speed shifts.  So, a manual clutch system would
> vertualy be worthless.  :-(  That's of course if there's no penilties for a
> suddon snap of power to the drive train with the on/off button configuration
> as mentioned above.

> just something to think about,
> Mike

> <g>

> Normally you won't need to clutch when going up through the box, this is no
> problem if you do it right (heck you clutch so fast anyway), but there are
> two major reasons to start clutching on downshifting:

> 1) When you get more than the odd 100 HP behind your back, gearboxes start
> taking a severe beating
> 2) When you get more *** grabbing the road, things become *very*
> noticeable. If you miss the revs ever so slightly, you'll have ***y lockups
> of the rear wheels, upsetting the balance of the car, which may put you in
> uncomfortable positions...so get the heel and toe in. Practice in road cars,
> and you'll find it is natural in racecars. Smooth is fast, remember :)

> Oh, one more thing...you won't have mad mechanics like me running after you
> throwing dead dogrings at you :-D

> Matt / heel'n toe fan

> > If I ever drive a 1967 F1 car, I'll let you know if this is possible...

> > > Us GPL fans are all very proud of our hunger for realism but yet almost
> all
> > > of us use one very big cheat when driving the car. There's nobody being
> a
> > > hotlapper using the clutch, by doing that we can do left foot braking at
> > > almost every part of the track which is totally unrealistic. Even in
> modern
> > > racing left foot braking isn't a common good, it's used in F1, Rally and
> on
> > > ovals.

> > > So why do we do it? Because it's possible I presume. I would like Papy
> to
> > > offer a small patch which turns off the auto clutch and the auto blip so
> we
> > > could do some real heel and toeing (or inside out as I do it). This
> would
> > > really make things far more realistic and the times as well probably.
> The
> > > only problem is that not many people have more that two pedals, but for
> > > those who have it would be great, don't you think?

> > > I would have rearrange my Logi brake pedal and F1 Sim throttle so I
> could
> > > heel and toe but that won't too much of a problem. I'll start using it
> from
> > > now on.

> > > Oh and anyone wondering about the status of my little sim it's going
> very
> > > slowly but I'm right on it. In about 5 years time I'll have a rolling
> car.

> > > Harjan.

> > --
> > Rob Swindells
> > [Rob Swindells Racing] http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > "Add life to your days, not days to your life."
> > "The greatest substitute for talent is hard work."
> > "Doing it, is better than watching it, is better than simulating it."
> > "I may not be perfect, but parts of me are excellent."

>Most of us will remember the onboard pictures of Ukyo Katayama's feet during
>practise for the Grand Prix of Suzuka. His feet were all over the place,
>going down the box.

>I never use the clutch on the upshift in a Formula Ford but I have to on the
>downshift. Same for the Formula Palmer Audi, I thought. Although I'm not
>quite sure because I was having big time problem with the shifts.

>I'm 100% sure that GPL models an autoclutch on the downshift (not sure about
>the upshift) because you hear a auto rev blip on the downshift, and you
>can't blip safely without using the clutch. Without matching the two speeds
>you'll hear a lot of strange noises.

>Harjan.

>> I don't know if this was the case in 1967, but in my FFord it was fine to
>just
>> bang up and down the 'box without using the clutch. In fact it was better
>to do
>> it that way. Of course, you have to lift off the accelerator when you are
>> shifting, as you do in GPL (in advanced damage modes).

> >Sorry Rob, but I don't quite get that, so you don't heel and toe with a
non
> >synchro meshed gearbox?
> >Doesn't the gearbox make quite some noise?
> >As far as I know the only way to downshift without a clutch is to match
the
> >revs with road speed and that's done by heel and toeing which isn't very
> >effective without declutching as we can imagine. Even if you do use the
> >clutch it's hard to shift down without heel and toeing, hence it's even
> >smoother to do it in my synchro meshed road car.

> >Most of us will remember the onboard pictures of Ukyo Katayama's feet
during
> >practise for the Grand Prix of Suzuka. His feet were all over the place,
> >going down the box.

> >I never use the clutch on the upshift in a Formula Ford but I have to on
the
> >downshift. Same for the Formula Palmer Audi, I thought. Although I'm not
> >quite sure because I was having big time problem with the shifts.

> >I'm 100% sure that GPL models an autoclutch on the downshift (not sure
about
> >the upshift) because you hear a auto rev blip on the downshift, and you
> >can't blip safely without using the clutch. Without matching the two
speeds
> >you'll hear a lot of strange noises.

> >Harjan.

> >> I don't know if this was the case in 1967, but in my FFord it was fine
to
> >just
> >> bang up and down the 'box without using the clutch. In fact it was
better
> >to do
> >> it that way. Of course, you have to lift off the accelerator when you
are
> >> shifting, as you do in GPL (in advanced damage modes).

> --
> Don Scurlock
> Vancouver,B.C.

> >Us GPL fans are all very proud of our hunger for realism but yet almost
all
> >of us use one very big cheat when driving the car. There's nobody being a
> >hotlapper using the clutch, by doing that we can do left foot braking at
> >almost every part of the track which is totally unrealistic. Even in
modern
> >racing left foot braking isn't a common good, it's used in F1, Rally and
on
> >ovals.

> What about us right foot drivers? I drive an automatic car in 'real
> life', so left foot breaking feels very unnatural.

> I sometimes use a combination of controllers if I really want to put
> the clutch to good use. I use the pedals on my MSFF wheel for breaking
> and acceleration, and I assign one of the movements on my MS
> Sidewinder Precision Pro (non USB) for the clutch. A digital clutch
> feels very unrealistic and so does the clutch control being maintained
> by hand, but considering the alternative it works pretty well.

> Alpha Omega

> ICQ: 70300233

> Explain me, you drive an automatic car so left foot braking feels unnatural?
> I think left foot braking is far easier in an automatic than in a manual
> shifter.
> With a manual gearbox you constantly have to decide whether not you'll be
> left braking, with an automatic box you can do it all the time and there's
> no need for heel and toeing. For me it;s the only pro about an automatic.

> > >Us GPL fans are all very proud of our hunger for realism but yet almost
> all
> > >of us use one very big cheat when driving the car. There's nobody being a
> > >hotlapper using the clutch, by doing that we can do left foot braking at
> > >almost every part of the track which is totally unrealistic. Even in
> modern
> > >racing left foot braking isn't a common good, it's used in F1, Rally and
> on
> > >ovals.

> > What about us right foot drivers? I drive an automatic car in 'real
> > life', so left foot breaking feels very unnatural.

> > I sometimes use a combination of controllers if I really want to put
> > the clutch to good use. I use the pedals on my MSFF wheel for breaking
> > and acceleration, and I assign one of the movements on my MS
> > Sidewinder Precision Pro (non USB) for the clutch. A digital clutch
> > feels very unrealistic and so does the clutch control being maintained
> > by hand, but considering the alternative it works pretty well.

> > Alpha Omega

> > ICQ: 70300233