rec.autos.simulators

by **Martyn Danb** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

jus lov to dbl clutch tho +) when i get in a stick shft that is heh

Jus remember my dad givin me stick shift lessons, and he would show me
how they had to do it in the "old" days (gee guess even i can say that
now...)

Md

> Actually, it's quite easy and painless with the right box and technique.
> Gone are the days of double declutching as well for the most part<G>

> MS

> > > I left foot brake and clutchless shift my manual street car all the
> time.
> > I
> > > NEVER use my right foot on the brake in an automatic.

> > You WHAT??? You shift in a manual transmission car without using the
> > clutch?
> > I bet you only drive rental cars

by **Martyn Danb** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Ick.. Escort...

That was my first stick. (North american 83 HO model) Unfortunately it
was the family car, and i bein all of 17 took the transaxle out of it
within the first year. I did love that car tho, had many a good race
down the old 'B' line in it.

Md

> When driving a company car..a nice new escort the gearbox was good enough
> for once rolling in 2nd and a quiet road to never use th clutch and use left

> cars owner i could drive any distance without the use of the clutch
> atall..once you got the nack its easy..I could even get it into first with a
> very hard blip..You can just feel the moment its right on the gear stick and
> with a light touch it just pops in...this means you dont have to use the
> clutch so have one foot for brake and one for thrittle like a Kart...But BE
> WARNED you forget and stab the brake like a clutch for a while as your not
> used to the left foot braking...very *** when you do that want to make
> sure you got a seatbelt on :)) or your teeth and the wheel will meet...

> I tried this in a 67 Triumph Spitfire but the box was a bit old and very
> difficult to rev match but it could be done..Ive tried this in a few modern
> cars A golf and Citroen Xantia..all of these were easy... but old boxs are
> harder...Makes a long drive on an A-Road much nicer as your clutch foot its
> beng used on a heavy clutch..Once you got the nack you need never sue the
> clutch once rolling ever again :)

> DP

> >>> Explain me, you drive an automatic car so left foot braking feels
> unnatural?
> >>> I think left foot braking is far easier in an automatic than in a manual
> >>> shifter.
> >>> With a manual gearbox you constantly have to decide whether not you'll
> be
> >>> left braking, with an automatic box you can do it all the time and
> there's
> >>> no need for heel and toeing. For me it;s the only pro about an
> automatic.

> >>I read a lot of "heel and toeing", even think I see it happening in "Grand
> >>Prix" (the frankenheimer movie) too but I don't really understand it.
> Could
> >>somebody of you goeroes explain what this heel-and-toeing technique really
> is
> >>and what it's advantage over "normal" driving is?

> >In a non-synchronized gearbox you need to "blip" the throttle so
> >the gears have the same speed before you change the gear. If you
> >don't, you hear a scary noise.... <g> This is mostly done while
> >downshifting, and that's something you do when you're braking.

> >So, you need to press the brake, throttle and clutch at the same time,
> >but you only have 2 feet. In this case you use the left foot for
> >clutching, the right foot toe for braking, and the right foot heel for
> >the throttle.

> >Remco

by **Stephen Ferguso** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

It's hell on the snychros though. A lot of people think they are doing a
whiz-bang job of clutchless shifting, but a modern synchromesh can mask a
lot of bad technique. Mostly they are doing a "bang" job of clutchless
shifting, and the reality check comes about a year later when they are given
the bill for replacing two little 30 buck synchros, with the addition of all
that labour to drop the transmission on a (more likely than not) FWD car.

Stephen

> > > I left foot brake and clutchless shift my manual street car all the
> time.
> > I
> > > NEVER use my right foot on the brake in an automatic.

> > You WHAT??? You shift in a manual transmission car without using the
> > clutch?
> > I bet you only drive rental cars

by **Stephen Ferguso** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

<G>

Well done! My record was 250,000km on one clutch.

I used exactly that technique to drive 8 hours home from a north-country
canoe trip with a broken cable. It got some funny looks at the traffic
lights as this silent car with a canoe on top suddenly went bucking down the
road then zoomed away.

Stephen

by **Stephen Ferguso** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

And Schumacher hosed the clutch at the start on his F1 debut with Jordan.
Still happens, even in the space age world of F1.

I was just reading about some monster in Classic & Sports Cars (a Maserati
4L (??)) with the pedals arranged with clutch on the left, brake on the
right and accelerator in the middle. The driver said it took a lot of
concentration to drive it :-)

Stephen

by **Stephen Ferguso** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

There's the clue... the synchros are making up for any inadequacies in
technique, whereas the Spitfire *** was the true test of your skill.
Guess what the modern transmission is going to look like after a few
thousand km if you are relying on the synchros telling you when it's good to
go for the next gear?

Stephen

by **Stephen Ferguso** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but this is not a proper technique.
You are using the synchros as a crutch for bad technique, and you're going
to crunch them soon enough. I recommend everyone who wants to try this go
get an automotive repair manual and read up on what the synchros do. Then
go to your local transmission shop and ask for the cost of parts and labour
to replace the 2nd and 3rd gear synchros.

Stephen

by **Jan Hoviu** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Marc (I think it was 'marc' wasn't it?),

Thanks for your thorough explanation on "heel&toeing". Since I'm not a
car-technician and have difficulties imagining how the combination
engine-gearbox really works it still is a bit too technical but I do
understand the principle now.
I also know now that it's not something I have to focus on to improve my
performance in GPL (***, .... thought I had found the reason I was so
slooow).

Once again thank you all in this thread.

--
Jan Hovius

J.H.Hovius.vcf
< 1K Download

by **Gregor Vebl** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

> The technique goes like this. xx mph --Brake----> 35mph----Whilst still
> braking,

at this point the engine should be disconnected from the tyres; use
clutch (preferable on a regular car) or put the gearlever in neutral.

by **Matthew B.Knutse** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Stephen said:

Enter the real-old "heel and toe".:-D

Matt

by **Eldre** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

writes:

>> Plus any competant instructor should rap the knuckles of anyone using
>> the left foot to brake with an Automatic. If you are like most of us
>> lazy Americans, you will rest your left foot on the brake pedal...What
>> does this do? Wears out your brake pads and confuses the Hell out of
>> anyone following you in traffic.
>> dave henrie

>Nonesense. Any competant instructor should rap the knuckles of anyone
>resting their left foot on the brake pedal, or clutch in a manual.

>The only competant argument for not left foot braking an auto is that a
>driver might get confused when switching back and forth from a manual.

>Left foot braking is perfectly ok with either form of ***.

>I left foot brake and clutchless shift my manual street car all the time. I
>NEVER use my right foot on the brake in an automatic.

>I use the deadpedal for my resting left foot. That's what it's there for.

Deadpedal? Never heard of it...
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

>> Ever try to stop at an icy/snow-covered intersection on a cold morning
>> when the auto***has the engine rpms sky high and the back wheels
>> spinning even with the brakes applied?
>> dave henrie

>Uh... first thing you learn in a decent driving school in Canada (if you are
>learning on an automatic) is how to slap it into neutral without a second
>thought. It was a natural reaction in the winter. Of course, I would never
>volutarily go back to an automatic, but they're not soooo bad.

>Stephen

Hmm...I was never taught that(Detroit, MI). I just started doing it out of
(my) necessity(front wheel drive). Until just now, I had never heard of anyone
ELSE doing it...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Stephen Ferguso** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

> >> Ever try to stop at an icy/snow-covered intersection on a cold
morning
> >> when the auto***has the engine rpms sky high and the back wheels
> >> spinning even with the brakes applied?
> >> dave henrie

> >Uh... first thing you learn in a decent driving school in Canada (if you
are
> >learning on an automatic) is how to slap it into neutral without a second
> >thought. It was a natural reaction in the winter. Of course, I would
never
> >volutarily go back to an automatic, but they're not soooo bad.

> >Stephen

> Hmm...I was never taught that(Detroit, MI). I just started doing it out
of
> (my) necessity(front wheel drive). Until just now, I had never heard of
anyone
> ELSE doing it...

> Eldred

Notice I said *decent* driving school :-) The one I went to in '84 took us
out to a big, empty lot and let us practice various skid recovery
techniques. It wasn't, however, a specialized performance school; it was
the nationwide "Young Drivers of Canada" school, which supplements its
program with an annual rally, where equal points are given for on-the-road
defensive drivng technique and parking-lot autocross-style car handling
skills. A bit better than the "parallel park and you're done" curriculum at
a lot of North American schools.

Stephen

by **Tim Vanhe** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Call '99 cars old? Do you remember Monza 99? Why did Mika cry? He shifted
down to 1st instead of 2nd and spun off.

by **m.seer** » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I was refering (As this thread does) to cars with manual gearboxes and
clutches, and not to cars that have pinball flippers underneath the steering
wheel !

MS

rec.autos.simulators

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