rec.autos.simulators

by **m.seer** » Sat, 22 Apr 2000 04:00:00

That's the one <G>

MS

> That's the straight road where they are turning the wheel all the time?

> Jens

> >It's a Hollywood thing.
> >Havn't you ever seen them films where there are about 50 gear changes to
the
> >mile as a car drives down a road at constant speed <G>

> >MS

> ---------------------------------------------

> Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

> JensSchumi homepage at http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> Racing simulation, esp. GPL
> Logitech Wingman FF optimization
> Classic cars, esp. Morris Minor
> Radio controlled airplanes

by **Mark Jeangerar** » Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I like the idea of a clutch, but more for spins than for starts. I kinda
bugs me that the engine never stalls. The rest of the race is no clutching
of course, just like real life.

The other thing that bugs me is that I have a hard time regulating the revs
in between gears. I don't know if it's because I don't know exactly when the
car will be in neutral or if the game is doing it's own thing in there. But
controlling the engine speed between gears is second nature for me in real
life and not having that control in the game is unsettling. It's a technique
that I have to do without.

--
Mark Jeangerard
www.soundchaserweb.com
New Mexico, USA

by **Mark Jeangerar** » Sun, 23 Apr 2000 04:00:00

So far the best I've driven is F355 Challenge. I had about 30 minutes with
it on my last visit to Las Vegas. (There's a game room below the sidewalk in
front of MGM that has two F355's linked for those who want to know. Maybe
it's closer to the big Coke bottle. But it's right there on that side of the
street. Can't remember the name.) F355 uses some sort of feed back to the
brake pedal that is driven off the road conditions, I think. The clutch has
a feel too, although it may be constant. Now I drive a manual *** every
day of my life. (I wouldn't risk my life with an auto.) Shifting with the
clutch is first nature. It's like breathing. Haven't consciously thought
about it in 20 years. I can get in any road car or on any bike and not think
about it and go down the road flawlessly.

In F355 Challenge I couldn't shift while braking to save my life. My brain
was sent into huge fits of confusion at corner entry. The braking
information was all wrong. I'm not sure what I respond too in a real car,
probably G's, but this thing was off by a great degree. There's something
dreadfully wrong when incorrect input is being interpreted. I mean, when the
visual says one thing, the audio another, and the pedal feedback still
another... well... there's nothing to gauge the performance by. Decisions
are based on sensations that may or may not benefit the simulated
experience.

I have no doubt that 10 more hours would cure all that ails me on F355, but
at the outset, it's not so easy to get that FF working right. Even on a
40,000 dollar machine. (Consider *that* for a moment. Could get a decent 308
for that.)

--
Mark Jeangerard
www.soundchaserweb.com
New Mexico, USA

<snip> No, in that case you're still travel sensitive (pot). I'd like to see
a

by **JTW620** » Mon, 24 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I LOVE F355 Challenge. I play it all the time here in Tempe, Arizona.
Contrary to what you found, I feel it's exceptionally accurate. I'm proud to
say that I've got all the best laps on all the tracks (except Motegi, the oval,
I don't race ovals well at all!). On F355 Challenge (full sim mode), I've
really got the heel-toeing down to almost perfect.
I really don't think the inputs are off at all with the game, its probably
just because you're responding to different stimuli as you said. When
downshifting, if I'm braking at/close to the limit and don't use the throttle
to keep the revs up, it gets really squirrely at the end of a braking zone.
Long Beach, turn one is the harshest change! Also, you can't stomp on the
brake pedal, the fronts will lock up (took me many $$$ to figure that out, and
exactly how to get the braking technique down, probably more than most people
would ever spend on a video game!)
I'm with you on this one, Mark, F355 Challenge is the hottest sim out there!
Todd
http://PerformanceSimulations.com

by **cory ta** » Tue, 25 Apr 2000 04:00:00

yep.......precisely...
I have driven both autos & manuals....found a few things..
1. U lose a lot of control with autos.....most autos dun engine brake, so
braking from 140kph into a 80kph corner, it's seriously scary!!!!!
2. When u need that serious injection of power, sometimes u stomp on the damn
gas pedal, & the car goes nowhere!!! arrgh...this is esp. so when driving
smaller
capacity cars. So I suppose autos are for BIG cars(read: expensive, large,
heavy, no fun)
3. When u talk about racing enthusiast, autos are out, unless u r talking about
semi-auto, f1 type transmissions.(alritE!!!)

just wondering, for those who drive autos. If u floor the gas pedal from a
standing start, do u get a lag in between gear changes?
I found so far in 2 cars: a BMW 530i & a Nissan Sunny 1.6, during hard
acceleration, from 1st to 2nd to 3rd, it seems to lag about 2 sec when
changeing.
comments.........

> 1. Lower fuel consumption, important incountries where the fuel is about
> 1US$/ltr.
> 2. More power left, important in countries where it's very hot all the time
> (air-cond full power all the time) and typical cars are about 1600 - 1800cc

> Jens

> >I still see no benefits of a manual car over an automatic.

> <snip>
> ---------------------------------------------

> Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address

> JensSchumi homepage at http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/
> Racing simulation, esp. GPL
> Logitech Wingman FF optimization
> Classic cars, esp. Morris Minor
> Radio controlled airplanes

by **cory ta** » Tue, 25 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I suppose the driving methods taught by the instructors are for the generally
public, who dun need such excessive control techniques. Not everyone like us
push every car we drive to the edge. Though I feel it should be made mandatory
for every driver to go thru some advance driving course. I believe it will save
many lives.

> That means nothing...Crossing your hands isnt allowed in a test..but its
> much safer than shuffling and all that crap..the control you have over a
> vechicle using the "not" crossed hands schuffling technique is
> appualing...First thing id did after passing my test was cross my hands..Ten
> times more control...You ever tried correcting a large oversteer drift
> schuffling your hands..:)) hello hedge bye bye car..

> Not everything your taught in a driving test has relevance or is the best
> way to control a car in the style with which you use it..

> Auto's better than manuals...haha..Thats something my 80 year old granddad
> would say as hes lost the coordination to drive <G> Anyway yeah autos leave
> you in less control over your destiny on the roads in many situations..

> >>Nonesense. Any competant instructor should rap the knuckles of anyone
> >>resting their left foot on the brake pedal, or clutch in a manual.

> >We're not supposed to rest our foot against the brake. It's supposed
> >to sit on the floor, on the left of the break, where it can relaxe and
> >make fun of the right foot, which is doing all the work. :-)

> >>The only competant argument for not left foot braking an auto is that a
> >>driver might get confused when switching back and forth from a manual.

> >Nope. The best argument for right foot breaking is that it's much
> >easier to use and is safer. Pretty good reasons, if you ask me.

> >>I left foot brake and clutchless shift my manual street car all the time.
> I
> >>NEVER use my right foot on the brake in an automatic.

> >If you had taken your automatic driving test in this country (UK),
> >you'd have learnt that left foot breaking is wrong. You can not use it
> >under test conditions.

> >Alpha Omega

> >ICQ: 70300233

by **cory ta** » Tue, 25 Apr 2000 04:00:00

oooooh......man.....I love that game...
just that is cost $$$$$$$$$$
same with JTW, it was after many runs that I finally got something out of the
braking instead of smashing into every armco barrier. but I still found the pedals
too light for a race car, & the car rolls too much. First time out I tried going
round Monza the way I usually do(okay, in GP2!). Left bits & pieces of the car all
over the track. The car just doesn't go like an f1. But excellent game all round,
even improve my driving on real cars!

> I LOVE F355 Challenge. I play it all the time here in Tempe, Arizona.
> Contrary to what you found, I feel it's exceptionally accurate. I'm proud to
> say that I've got all the best laps on all the tracks (except Motegi, the oval,
> I don't race ovals well at all!). On F355 Challenge (full sim mode), I've
> really got the heel-toeing down to almost perfect.
> I really don't think the inputs are off at all with the game, its probably
> just because you're responding to different stimuli as you said. When
> downshifting, if I'm braking at/close to the limit and don't use the throttle
> to keep the revs up, it gets really squirrely at the end of a braking zone.
> Long Beach, turn one is the harshest change! Also, you can't stomp on the
> brake pedal, the fronts will lock up (took me many $$$ to figure that out, and
> exactly how to get the braking technique down, probably more than most people
> would ever spend on a video game!)
> I'm with you on this one, Mark, F355 Challenge is the hottest sim out there!
> Todd
> http://PerformanceSimulations.com

by **m.seer** » Tue, 25 Apr 2000 04:00:00

The correct term is the push-pull method Ian. It is taught not only to
beginners but to Class 1 pursuit drivers in the British police force. If you
can do it correctly, you are not shuffling at all but pulling the wheel
round at a rapid rate of knots.

I know that over here, there are far more criminals who end up in the hedge
whilst engaging in pursuits than Cop cars <G>

MS

Absolutely.

by **JTW620** » Tue, 25 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I learned to drive a stick playing Hard Drivin'. Remember that game?
Woohoo!! F355 is fantastic, even though it's $2 a game here. I still stop by
and blow $20-40 now and then. Surfin some sites, I found that even the Ferrari
engineers thought it was an excellent re-creation of the car's handling. Does
it roll too much? I hadn't noticed. It seems pretty flat to me. The pedals
could use better feedback I suppose, but I still love it!
---Long Beach: low 1:07's on good days (best was about 1:06.900)
---Sugi: 1:27's
Can't remember the others. I don't do quite as well at Monza, can't quite get
that last sweeper down right. Think I got a few 1:48's at best (2nd place).
Todd
http://PerformanceSimulations
Excellent site: http://www.draglist.com

by **Ian** » Tue, 25 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Yes Mark, I know the correct term ( I trained to be an ADI but decided to
stay in my current job for the time being ) I was just quoting someone else
who called it "shuffling"
With regard to the Police not stuffing it into the hedge have you seen the
speed they drive at, positively pedestrian <G> and the criminals are
normally in underpowered cars and are usually more than slightly intoxicated
/ spaced out on *** ;)
To be fair the push- pull method is a safe method of steering the car, but
ultimately is not the fastest, especially if you happen to get a bit
sideways (just look to Rally driving for proof of that <G>)

Talking about the Police and going wildly off topic, the US Police forces
need to learn a thing or two about road safety, pushing the rear of the
pursued car sideways to induce a fishtail at high speed is absolutely
disgraceful. I'd be surprised if no one has been killed, an innocent
bystander at that !! :(
--
Ian P

==

> > The "Shuffling" method is used to prevent people from driving so fast
that
> > they have to cross their hands <G>

> The correct term is the push-pull method Ian. It is taught not only to
> beginners but to Class 1 pursuit drivers in the British police force. If
you
> can do it correctly, you are not shuffling at all but pulling the wheel
> round at a rapid rate of knots.

> I know that over here, there are far more criminals who end up in the
hedge
> whilst engaging in pursuits than Cop cars <G>

> MS

> > Auto's are for people who are too lazy to move a gear stick ;)

> Absolutely.

by **m.seer** » Tue, 25 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I certainly have Ian. My brother is in the Met and I went out with him
recently as a civilian observer.
I'd hardly call 95 mph through the streets of Uxbridge pedestrian. <G>
Admittedly, it was on the night shift and not durng the rush hour. ;-)

True enough but it is arguable that requiring crossed hands on the wheel is
a sign that you are driving way in excess of normal road driving speeds or
levels of aggression. I'm not a total stickler and I would use this method
in certain instances myself but not a matter of course in normal driving
situations.

LOL. I have to say that in the age of the helicopter "spy in the sky, it's
all a bit histrionic isn't it?

Cheers

MS

by **Pat Dotso** » Tue, 25 Apr 2000 04:00:00

> > Talking about the Police and going wildly off topic, the US Police forces
> > need to learn a thing or two about road safety, pushing the rear of the
> > pursued car sideways to induce a fishtail at high speed is absolutely
> > disgraceful. I'd be surprised if no one has been killed, an innocent
> > bystander at that !! :(

> LOL. I have to say that in the age of the helicopter "spy in the sky, it's
> all a bit histrionic isn't it?

It might be, if you knew what you were talking about. That
maneuver is almost always done at very low speed, just after
rounding a 90 degree corner. I have only rarely seen it
done at more than 30 or 40 MPH, and never at anything that
could be considered "high speed".

--
pd

by **Dave Henri** » Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:00:00

But don't the Finns or somebody up there in Scandanavia use Police
Cars with Harpoons on them? I really saw this in like Popular Science
or Hustler...one of those really really informative magazines.
dave henrie

> > > Talking about the Police and going wildly off topic, the US Police forces
> > > need to learn a thing or two about road safety, pushing the rear of the
> > > pursued car sideways to induce a fishtail at high speed is absolutely
> > > disgraceful. I'd be surprised if no one has been killed, an innocent
> > > bystander at that !! :(

> > LOL. I have to say that in the age of the helicopter "spy in the sky, it's
> > all a bit histrionic isn't it?

> It might be, if you knew what you were talking about. That
> maneuver is almost always done at very low speed, just after
> rounding a 90 degree corner. I have only rarely seen it
> done at more than 30 or 40 MPH, and never at anything that
> could be considered "high speed".

> --
> pd

by **m.seer** » Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:00:00

If I knew what I was talking about......

I'll tell you what I do know.
At 20 mph, a child has a 90% probability of surviving an impact with a car.
At 35 mph, a child stands a 5% chance of surviving an impact with a motor
vehicle.
At 40mph, a child surviving an impact with a car is an extreme rarity.

If the police or any body else have total mindreading as a prerequisite
skill and can account for the unforeseen in 100% of cases EG. children
running out from behind parked cars, driveways, concealed entrances and the
like then I don't know what I'm talking about I guess.

There are far safer ways of immobilising a car in this day and age. Ever
heard of a device called a stinger?

MS

> > > Talking about the Police and going wildly off topic, the US Police
forces
> > > need to learn a thing or two about road safety, pushing the rear of
the
> > > pursued car sideways to induce a fishtail at high speed is absolutely
> > > disgraceful. I'd be surprised if no one has been killed, an innocent
> > > bystander at that !! :(

> > LOL. I have to say that in the age of the helicopter "spy in the sky,
it's
> > all a bit histrionic isn't it?

> It might be, if you knew what you were talking about. That
> maneuver is almost always done at very low speed, just after
> rounding a 90 degree corner. I have only rarely seen it
> done at more than 30 or 40 MPH, and never at anything that
> could be considered "high speed".

> --
> pd

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Wed, 26 Apr 2000 04:00:00

A _STINGER_, for Christ's sake!!!! You want the cops to take out a fleeing
car with a MISSILE?!!!

Only kidding, Mark! :-)

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

> If I knew what I was talking about......

> I'll tell you what I do know.
> At 20 mph, a child has a 90% probability of surviving an impact with a
car.
> At 35 mph, a child stands a 5% chance of surviving an impact with a motor
> vehicle.
> At 40mph, a child surviving an impact with a car is an extreme rarity.

> If the police or any body else have total mindreading as a prerequisite
> skill and can account for the unforeseen in 100% of cases EG. children
> running out from behind parked cars, driveways, concealed entrances and
the
> like then I don't know what I'm talking about I guess.

> There are far safer ways of immobilising a car in this day and age. Ever
> heard of a device called a stinger?

> MS

> > > > Talking about the Police and going wildly off topic, the US Police
> forces
> > > > need to learn a thing or two about road safety, pushing the rear of
> the
> > > > pursued car sideways to induce a fishtail at high speed is
absolutely
> > > > disgraceful. I'd be surprised if no one has been killed, an innocent
> > > > bystander at that !! :(

> > > LOL. I have to say that in the age of the helicopter "spy in the sky,
> it's
> > > all a bit histrionic isn't it?

> > It might be, if you knew what you were talking about. That
> > maneuver is almost always done at very low speed, just after
> > rounding a 90 degree corner. I have only rarely seen it
> > done at more than 30 or 40 MPH, and never at anything that
> > could be considered "high speed".

> > --
> > pd

rec.autos.simulators

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism