rec.autos.simulators

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Plus any competant instructor should rap the knuckles of anyone using
the left foot to brake with an Automatic. If you are like most of us
lazy Americans, you will rest your left foot on the brake pedal...What
does this do? Wears out your brake pads and confuses the Hell out of
anyone following you in traffic.
dave henrie

> OK.. i don't drive too often in real life, no car..

> I find I can't drive GPL with 1 foot, but i also found i can't drive a
> US automatic with 2 feet, well i can, but if i had any passengers they'd
> be ***in about spilling their coffee when i hit the brakes +). Its
> different when there is actually resistance in the brake pedal. As I
> said i don't drive in reality much, and don't think it would take me
> that long to adjust.

> Md

> > Explain me, you drive an automatic car so left foot braking feels unnatural?
> > I think left foot braking is far easier in an automatic than in a manual
> > shifter.
> > With a manual gearbox you constantly have to decide whether not you'll be
> > left braking, with an automatic box you can do it all the time and there's
> > no need for heel and toeing. For me it;s the only pro about an automatic.

> > > >Us GPL fans are all very proud of our hunger for realism but yet almost
> > all
> > > >of us use one very big cheat when driving the car. There's nobody being a
> > > >hotlapper using the clutch, by doing that we can do left foot braking at
> > > >almost every part of the track which is totally unrealistic. Even in
> > modern
> > > >racing left foot braking isn't a common good, it's used in F1, Rally and
> > on
> > > >ovals.

> > > What about us right foot drivers? I drive an automatic car in 'real
> > > life', so left foot breaking feels very unnatural.

> > > I sometimes use a combination of controllers if I really want to put
> > > the clutch to good use. I use the pedals on my MSFF wheel for breaking
> > > and acceleration, and I assign one of the movements on my MS
> > > Sidewinder Precision Pro (non USB) for the clutch. A digital clutch
> > > feels very unrealistic and so does the clutch control being maintained
> > > by hand, but considering the alternative it works pretty well.

> > > Alpha Omega

> > > ICQ: 70300233

by **Rich** » Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:00:00

> Plus any competant instructor should rap the knuckles of anyone using
>the left foot to brake with an Automatic. If you are like most of us
>lazy Americans, you will rest your left foot on the brake pedal...What
>does this do? Wears out your brake pads and confuses the Hell out of
>anyone following you in traffic.
>dave henrie

what is the obsession of the US of using auto gears in cars. i'm not
getting at the US too much here i just want to know why anyone would
possibly prefer one over driving a car with a manual gearbox.

the only time we use autos in europe is in dodgem cars isn't it ??

Rich

by **Harjan Bran** » Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I don't agree, I consider myself a very competent driver and anytime I drive
a automatic I use my left foot. I'm used to left foot braking, so for me
there's no problem in doing it.

People who aren't used to braking with their left foot should not give it a
try in their road car.

> Plus any competant instructor should rap the knuckles of anyone using
> the left foot to brake with an Automatic. If you are like most of us
> lazy Americans, you will rest your left foot on the brake pedal...What
> does this do? Wears out your brake pads and confuses the Hell out of
> anyone following you in traffic.
> dave henrie

> > OK.. i don't drive too often in real life, no car..

> > I find I can't drive GPL with 1 foot, but i also found i can't drive a
> > US automatic with 2 feet, well i can, but if i had any passengers they'd
> > be ***in about spilling their coffee when i hit the brakes +). Its
> > different when there is actually resistance in the brake pedal. As I
> > said i don't drive in reality much, and don't think it would take me
> > that long to adjust.

> > Md

> > > Explain me, you drive an automatic car so left foot braking feels
unnatural?
> > > I think left foot braking is far easier in an automatic than in a
manual
> > > shifter.
> > > With a manual gearbox you constantly have to decide whether not you'll
be
> > > left braking, with an automatic box you can do it all the time and
there's
> > > no need for heel and toeing. For me it;s the only pro about an
automatic.

> > > > >Us GPL fans are all very proud of our hunger for realism but yet
almost
> > > all
> > > > >of us use one very big cheat when driving the car. There's nobody
being a
> > > > >hotlapper using the clutch, by doing that we can do left foot
braking at
> > > > >almost every part of the track which is totally unrealistic. Even
in
> > > modern
> > > > >racing left foot braking isn't a common good, it's used in F1,
Rally and
> > > on
> > > > >ovals.

> > > > What about us right foot drivers? I drive an automatic car in 'real
> > > > life', so left foot breaking feels very unnatural.

> > > > I sometimes use a combination of controllers if I really want to put
> > > > the clutch to good use. I use the pedals on my MSFF wheel for
breaking
> > > > and acceleration, and I assign one of the movements on my MS
> > > > Sidewinder Precision Pro (non USB) for the clutch. A digital clutch
> > > > feels very unrealistic and so does the clutch control being
maintained
> > > > by hand, but considering the alternative it works pretty well.

> > > > Alpha Omega

> > > > ICQ: 70300233

by **Martyn Danb** » Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Ever drive over here in north america? Ever try readin a map, eatin a
big mac and shiftin at the same time!!! +)

Its called the grid system, on the highway they are straight and booring
in most areas.

Personally i prefer a stick, but hey no car at the moment, and the GPZ
needs a few too many $$ ....

Md

> > Plus any competant instructor should rap the knuckles of anyone using
> >the left foot to brake with an Automatic. If you are like most of us
> >lazy Americans, you will rest your left foot on the brake pedal...What
> >does this do? Wears out your brake pads and confuses the Hell out of
> >anyone following you in traffic.
> >dave henrie

> what is the obsession of the US of using auto gears in cars. i'm not
> getting at the US too much here i just want to know why anyone would
> possibly prefer one over driving a car with a manual gearbox.

> the only time we use autos in europe is in dodgem cars isn't it ??

> Rich

by **Alan Orto** » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00

I would love to see this option, Harjan. It would really help practice
the heel toe with out being on the city streets. I would have to make my
own pedals so they are just like my real car. It would be fun though. :)
Also Online if the Host could turn off Auto clutching to force everyone
to heel toe it would be great. It would also be great if there was drive
train wear and damage modeled as well for the people who think they
don't need to use a clutch or blip the throttle. ;)

> Us GPL fans are all very proud of our hunger for realism but yet almost all
> of us use one very big cheat when driving the car. There's nobody being a
> hotlapper using the clutch, by doing that we can do left foot braking at
> almost every part of the track which is totally unrealistic. Even in modern
> racing left foot braking isn't a common good, it's used in F1, Rally and on
> ovals.

> So why do we do it? Because it's possible I presume. I would like Papy to
> offer a small patch which turns off the auto clutch and the auto blip so we
> could do some real heel and toeing (or inside out as I do it). This would
> really make things far more realistic and the times as well probably. The
> only problem is that not many people have more that two pedals, but for
> those who have it would be great, don't you think?

> I would have rearrange my Logi brake pedal and F1 Sim throttle so I could
> heel and toe but that won't too much of a problem. I'll start using it from
> now on.

> Oh and anyone wondering about the status of my little sim it's going very
> slowly but I'm right on it. In about 5 years time I'll have a rolling car.

> Harjan.

by **Tim Wheatle** » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00

you can shift without the clutch in a road car too, it bolloxs the gearbox
eventually though ;o)

> I don't know if this was the case in 1967, but in my FFord it was fine to
just
> bang up and down the 'box without using the clutch. In fact it was better
to do
> it that way. Of course, you have to lift off the accelerator when you are
> shifting, as you do in GPL (in advanced damage modes).

> If I ever drive a 1967 F1 car, I'll let you know if this is possible...

> > Us GPL fans are all very proud of our hunger for realism but yet almost
all
> > of us use one very big cheat when driving the car. There's nobody being
a
> > hotlapper using the clutch, by doing that we can do left foot braking at
> > almost every part of the track which is totally unrealistic. Even in
modern
> > racing left foot braking isn't a common good, it's used in F1, Rally and
on
> > ovals.

> > So why do we do it? Because it's possible I presume. I would like Papy
to
> > offer a small patch which turns off the auto clutch and the auto blip so
we
> > could do some real heel and toeing (or inside out as I do it). This
would
> > really make things far more realistic and the times as well probably.
The
> > only problem is that not many people have more that two pedals, but for
> > those who have it would be great, don't you think?

> > I would have rearrange my Logi brake pedal and F1 Sim throttle so I
could
> > heel and toe but that won't too much of a problem. I'll start using it
from
> > now on.

> > Oh and anyone wondering about the status of my little sim it's going
very
> > slowly but I'm right on it. In about 5 years time I'll have a rolling
car.

> > Harjan.

> --
> Rob Swindells
> [Rob Swindells Racing] http://swindells.8m.com
> "Add life to your days, not days to your life."
> "The greatest substitute for talent is hard work."
> "Doing it, is better than watching it, is better than simulating it."
> "I may not be perfect, but parts of me are excellent."

by **Eldre** » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00

>I would love to see this option, Harjan. It would really help practice
>the heel toe with out being on the city streets. I would have to make my
>own pedals so they are just like my real car. It would be fun though. :)
>Also Online if the Host could turn off Auto clutching to force everyone
>to heel toe it would be great. It would also be great if there was drive
>train wear and damage modeled as well for the people who think they
>don't need to use a clutch or blip the throttle. ;)

You think there are too few drivers in VROC *now*...<g>

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00

>> Plus any competant instructor should rap the knuckles of anyone using
>>the left foot to brake with an Automatic. If you are like most of us
>>lazy Americans, you will rest your left foot on the brake pedal...What
>>does this do? Wears out your brake pads and confuses the Hell out of
>>anyone following you in traffic.
>>dave henrie

>what is the obsession of the US of using auto gears in cars. i'm not
>getting at the US too much here i just want to know why anyone would
>possibly prefer one over driving a car with a manual gearbox.

>the only time we use autos in europe is in dodgem cars isn't it ??

>Rich

I had a manual transmission car once. After trying to drive it in rush hour
stop-n-go traffic, the novelty wore off REAL quick.... Never again.... I don't
know why anyone would possibly prefer the manual...<g>

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00

>Explain me, you drive an automatic car so left foot braking feels unnatural?
>I think left foot braking is far easier in an automatic than in a manual
>shifter.
>With a manual gearbox you constantly have to decide whether not you'll be
>left braking, with an automatic box you can do it all the time and there's
>no need for heel and toeing. For me it;s the only pro about an automatic.

Even though you didn't ask me, I can give you an answer. People who drive
automatics are taught to use ONE foot. So, after years of not using the left
foot, it's not very co-ordinated... I, for one, can't figure it out...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Stephen Ferguso** » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00

> > Plus any competant instructor should rap the knuckles of anyone using
> >the left foot to brake with an Automatic. If you are like most of us
> >lazy Americans, you will rest your left foot on the brake pedal...What
> >does this do? Wears out your brake pads and confuses the Hell out of
> >anyone following you in traffic.
> >dave henrie

> what is the obsession of the US of using auto gears in cars. i'm not
> getting at the US too much here i just want to know why anyone would
> possibly prefer one over driving a car with a manual gearbox.

> the only time we use autos in europe is in dodgem cars isn't it ??

A torque converter can handle the output of a rorting, snorting V8. Often
the manufacturers didn't have a manual *** that could last more than a
year on the back end of their latest, greatest V8. Several European
manufacturers had to source an American automatic transmission when they
started using large V8s (this is 20 years ago, mind you). One example that
comes to mind is the Rover 3500. It ate manual gearboxes for breakfast, but
was perfectly happy with the automatic. Turbos can benefit from an
automatic, as the "slack" in the system allows the turbos to keep spooling
during shifts. The Buick Grand National was an amazing monster of a turbo
car - in a straight line - in the late 80s (and an even nastier derivative
was the GMC Typhoon, a "sport utility" that could out accelerate a Ferrari
and was a virtual equal to the Porsche 959 in the wet just because of its
gobs of turbo-powered torque, AWD and the auto-box).

Second is the nature of driving in North America. Either you are cruising a
motorway, or you are stuck in traffic on a motorway. I oversimplify, but
for the most part it's true. Growing up in Canada, almost any destination
involved travelling on the highway. In Switzerland, half my driving is
small, secondary roads. And after a few years of living through epic
traffic jams (queues, staus) on my daily commute in Toronto with a "sport"
clutch in my late, lamented GTi, I could see the possible advantage of an
autobox. I won't buy one, but I could see the use of it.

Stephen

by **m.seer** » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00

It's a Hollywood thing.
Havn't you ever seen them films where there are about 50 gear changes to the
mile as a car drives down a road at constant speed <G>

MS

> > Plus any competant instructor should rap the knuckles of anyone using
> >the left foot to brake with an Automatic. If you are like most of us
> >lazy Americans, you will rest your left foot on the brake pedal...What
> >does this do? Wears out your brake pads and confuses the Hell out of
> >anyone following you in traffic.
> >dave henrie

> what is the obsession of the US of using auto gears in cars. i'm not
> getting at the US too much here i just want to know why anyone would
> possibly prefer one over driving a car with a manual gearbox.

> the only time we use autos in europe is in dodgem cars isn't it ??

> Rich

by **Jan Hoviu** » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00

> Explain me, you drive an automatic car so left foot braking feels unnatural?
> I think left foot braking is far easier in an automatic than in a manual
> shifter.
> With a manual gearbox you constantly have to decide whether not you'll be
> left braking, with an automatic box you can do it all the time and there's
> no need for heel and toeing. For me it;s the only pro about an automatic.

I read a lot of "heel and toeing", even think I see it happening in "Grand
Prix" (the frankenheimer movie) too but I don't really understand it. Could
somebody of you goeroes explain what this heel-and-toeing technique really is
and what it's advantage over "normal" driving is?

--
Jan Hovius

by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Not an option until we can buy a set of pedals, including a clutch, with a
pressure (as opposed to travel) sensitive brake and correctly positioned
pedals for less than $100, IMO. Probably would need support for a "true"
shifter as well (think Act Labs has one)... would be hard to time the blip
if you're not moving the gear lever by hand methinks.

I think right foot brake with auto clutch and blip works very well. Can't
get used to left foot braking anyway, but if the hardware were available
"off the shelf" I'd certainly give it a go.

Jan.
=---

by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Not to mention it's "rat bastard hard" <excuse the expression>, especially
in a fuel injected car (engine management works against you).

I've been trying it myself and I can sort of do it going up the box from 1st
to 4th (5th is out of the question, can't even shift that smoothly using the
clutch). Downshifts are unpractical as you need to be very precise to be
able to engage the gear, which leads to a lot of time lost searching for the
correct revs in neutral. Something you can do while coasting, but out of the
question when braking for a corner.

Jan.
=---

by **Harjan Bran** » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00

In Europe we are taught to brake with our right foot as well, we only use
the left foot for the clutch. So for most people it's almost impossible if
they try to learn with their left foot (ask my mother who tried it on a
deserted road, there are still two black lines). I did it from the first
moment I got my license and have no problem at all. I don't do it all the
time because when you have to brake to a halt I have to switch from left to
right foot in to be able to use the clutch. With an automatic you don't have
that problem.

> >Explain me, you drive an automatic car so left foot braking feels
unnatural?
> >I think left foot braking is far easier in an automatic than in a manual
> >shifter.
> >With a manual gearbox you constantly have to decide whether not you'll be
> >left braking, with an automatic box you can do it all the time and
there's
> >no need for heel and toeing. For me it;s the only pro about an automatic.

> Even though you didn't ask me, I can give you an answer. People who drive
> automatics are taught to use ONE foot. So, after years of not using the
left
> foot, it's not very co-ordinated... I, for one, can't figure it out...

> Eldred
> --
> Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
> Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

rec.autos.simulators

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism

GPL and realism