Md
> > I left foot brake and clutchless shift my manual street car all the time.
> I
> > NEVER use my right foot on the brake in an automatic.
> You WHAT??? You shift in a manual transmission car without using the
> clutch?
> I bet you only drive rental cars
I tried this in a 67 Triumph Spitfire but the box was a bit old and very
difficult to rev match but it could be done..Ive tried this in a few modern
cars A golf and Citroen Xantia..all of these were easy... but old boxs are
harder...Makes a long drive on an A-Road much nicer as your clutch foot its
beng used on a heavy clutch..Once you got the nack you need never sue the
clutch once rolling ever again :)
DP
>>> Explain me, you drive an automatic car so left foot braking feels
unnatural?
>>> I think left foot braking is far easier in an automatic than in a manual
>>> shifter.
>>> With a manual gearbox you constantly have to decide whether not you'll
be
>>> left braking, with an automatic box you can do it all the time and
there's
>>> no need for heel and toeing. For me it;s the only pro about an
automatic.
>>I read a lot of "heel and toeing", even think I see it happening in "Grand
>>Prix" (the frankenheimer movie) too but I don't really understand it.
Could
>>somebody of you goeroes explain what this heel-and-toeing technique really
is
>>and what it's advantage over "normal" driving is?
>In a non-synchronized gearbox you need to "blip" the throttle so
>the gears have the same speed before you change the gear. If you
>don't, you hear a scary noise.... <g> This is mostly done while
>downshifting, and that's something you do when you're braking.
>So, you need to press the brake, throttle and clutch at the same time,
>but you only have 2 feet. In this case you use the left foot for
>clutching, the right foot toe for braking, and the right foot heel for
>the throttle.
>Remco
Make sure you find a quiet road to practice :)..left foot brakings a ***
to start..your left foot is like your left hand..useless till you get it
calibrated :)
DP
>I've been trying it myself and I can sort of do it going up the box from
1st
>to 4th (5th is out of the question, can't even shift that smoothly using
the
>clutch). Downshifts are unpractical as you need to be very precise to be
>able to engage the gear, which leads to a lot of time lost searching for
the
>correct revs in neutral. Something you can do while coasting, but out of
the
>question when braking for a corner.
>Jan.
>=---
>> you can shift without the clutch in a road car too, it bolloxs the
gearbox
>> eventually though ;o)
>> <snip>
DP
>>what is the obsession of the US of using auto gears in cars. i'm not
>>getting at the US too much here i just want to know why anyone would
>>possibly prefer one over driving a car with a manual gearbox.
>>the only time we use autos in europe is in dodgem cars isn't it ??
>I'm the complete opposite. I can't understand why anybody would choose
>to drive a manual car when you have the option to drive an automatic.
>Why put yourself through the extra hassle of shifting gears and
>popping the clutch? You don't gain much out of it.
>Alpha Omega
>ICQ: 70300233
Exactly, this is what I was thinking, and I can't see why anyone would want
to brake with their left foot!
Even in an automatic, you should *only* use your right foot.
Is anyone here left foot braking *and* keeping on some power with their
right foot?! I've also tried that, but it was a bit dangerous!
I've tried it in two different manual cars. You tend to press the brake
*far* too hard! :-) Oh, and of course, I can't down-shift because I can't
get to the clutch!
--
Richard.
"You think you lost your love, when I saw her yesterday."
KP
MS
As far as right foot braking goes, it has this to say.
<Quoted text> When driving along, it is safer to use the right foot only for
both brake and accelerator pedals, just as you do with vehicles with a
manual gearbox.
This devolops anticipation by encouraging
1. The early release of the gas pedal, and
2. Early and progressive braking. It is also true for a majority of drivers
<and remember we are talking about learners here, not experienced drivers,
Kartists, racers or sim drivers. MS> that there is a much higher degree of
sensivity and control with the use of the right foot.
It cuts out
1. The instability and wear and tear brought about by braking against
acceleration
< In my experience I have seen people in a blind panic literally floor both
pedals in emergency stop situations. Not to be recommended in something like
a V12 Jag. MS>
2. The need to learn a different method if you change from driving an
automatic to a manual or vice versa </Quoted text>
Mark Seery
Department of Transport ADI
BTW: Left foot breaking is not allowed because you cannot drive with a
plaster cast on it <G>
Sorry: Couldn't resist.
> >I don't agree, I consider myself a very competent driver and anytime I
drive
> >a automatic I use my left foot. I'm used to left foot braking, so for me
> >there's no problem in doing it.
> >People who aren't used to braking with their left foot should not give it
a
> >try in their road car.
> There must be a reason why left foot breaking is not allowed by the
> highway code in an automatic car in this country. Otherwise, wouldn't
> they leave it up to the driver to decide which foot he uses?
> Alpha Omega
> ICQ: 70300233
Heel and toe is used to prevent this problem when under heavy braking and
changing down. When braking from a higher speed to the aforementioned 30mph,
you would use both pedals at the same time with the right foot .
Some people used to use the heel of the foot on one pedal and the toe on the
other(Hence heeling and toeing). It is also common to use the brake as
normal but use the side of the foot to blip the gas. In each case, this can
only work well if the pedals are set correctly for height and spacing.
The technique goes like this. xx mph --Brake----> 35mph----Whilst still
braking, blip the throttle to match engine revs for lower
gear----->30mph---->change down.
The other reason racers do this is to prevent destruction of gearboxes.
MS
> > Explain me, you drive an automatic car so left foot braking feels
unnatural?
> > I think left foot braking is far easier in an automatic than in a manual
> > shifter.
> > With a manual gearbox you constantly have to decide whether not you'll
be
> > left braking, with an automatic box you can do it all the time and
there's
> > no need for heel and toeing. For me it;s the only pro about an
automatic.
> I read a lot of "heel and toeing", even think I see it happening in "Grand
> Prix" (the frankenheimer movie) too but I don't really understand it.
Could
> somebody of you goeroes explain what this heel-and-toeing technique really
is
> and what it's advantage over "normal" driving is?
> --
> Jan Hovius
I have to add here that his is true in a lot of racing situations but does
not apply to road cars. There is no need whatsoever to go through the box
sequentially. In this day and age, block changing is taught. If you was
going from 5th to 2nd, you would simply brake brake brake and change
directly into the lower gear. There is no advantage to be gained from engine
braking in this day and age and going through the box is as old fashioned as
double declutching. Gone are the days when we had brake fade from
inefficient, overheating drum brakes all round. Any modern car will
outperform the grip afforded by tyres. In other words, they will lock up
well before you reach the maximum retarding ability of the brakes. Further
to this, by constantly clutching and declutching, you stand a much greater
chance of destabilising the car or locking up. We also have to consider that
95% of the road driving fraternity are pretty average in terms of ability
and heeling and toeing is probably beyond the capabilities of most. I'd
hardly say that it was an essential part of general driving techniques
> A nice way in a road car to try it at a slow speed is to brake and shift
to
> first gear at about 20k, without heel and toeing the shift will be very
hard
> (don't push through it) with some nice heel and toeing it will work just
> fine.
> In order to know the revs you won't to make just check the revs you're
doing
> in first gear at 20k, you'll need just a very bit more in order to make a
> supersmooth downshift.
> > > Explain me, you drive an automatic car so left foot braking feels
> unnatural?
> > > I think left foot braking is far easier in an automatic than in a
manual
> > > shifter.
> > > With a manual gearbox you constantly have to decide whether not you'll
> be
> > > left braking, with an automatic box you can do it all the time and
> there's
> > > no need for heel and toeing. For me it;s the only pro about an
> automatic.
> > I read a lot of "heel and toeing", even think I see it happening in
"Grand
> > Prix" (the frankenheimer movie) too but I don't really understand it.
> Could
> > somebody of you goeroes explain what this heel-and-toeing technique
really
> is
> > and what it's advantage over "normal" driving is?
> > --
> > Jan Hovius
I'd not recommend trying to go into first with the engine running and the
car stationery though lol.
Of course, if it was a get yourself home job with a broken cable etc, it's
simple to put the thing in gear and start rolling on the battery.
MS
> I tried this in a 67 Triumph Spitfire but the box was a bit old and very
> difficult to rev match but it could be done..Ive tried this in a few
modern
> cars A golf and Citroen Xantia..all of these were easy... but old boxs
are
> harder...Makes a long drive on an A-Road much nicer as your clutch foot
its
> beng used on a heavy clutch..Once you got the nack you need never sue the
> clutch once rolling ever again :)
> DP
> >>> Explain me, you drive an automatic car so left foot braking feels
> unnatural?
> >>> I think left foot braking is far easier in an automatic than in a
manual
> >>> shifter.
> >>> With a manual gearbox you constantly have to decide whether not you'll
> be
> >>> left braking, with an automatic box you can do it all the time and
> there's
> >>> no need for heel and toeing. For me it;s the only pro about an
> automatic.
> >>I read a lot of "heel and toeing", even think I see it happening in
"Grand
> >>Prix" (the frankenheimer movie) too but I don't really understand it.
> Could
> >>somebody of you goeroes explain what this heel-and-toeing technique
really
> is
> >>and what it's advantage over "normal" driving is?
> >In a non-synchronized gearbox you need to "blip" the throttle so
> >the gears have the same speed before you change the gear. If you
> >don't, you hear a scary noise.... <g> This is mostly done while
> >downshifting, and that's something you do when you're braking.
> >So, you need to press the brake, throttle and clutch at the same time,
> >but you only have 2 feet. In this case you use the left foot for
> >clutching, the right foot toe for braking, and the right foot heel for
> >the throttle.
> >Remco
"> I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but over here (UK) you're
You can take an auto test but it precludes you from driving a manual. Think
about all the disabled people who cannot do so anyway. If you do the normal
test, you can drive anything.
MS
MS
Something you can do while coasting, but out of the
Jens
>People who aren't used to braking with their left foot should not give it a
>try in their road car.
JensSchumi homepage at http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/
Racing simulation, esp. GPL
Logitech Wingman FF optimization
Classic cars, esp. Morris Minor
Radio controlled airplanes
Md
> >> Plus any competant instructor should rap the knuckles of anyone using
> >>the left foot to brake with an Automatic. If you are like most of us
> >>lazy Americans, you will rest your left foot on the brake pedal...What
> >>does this do? Wears out your brake pads and confuses the Hell out of
> >>anyone following you in traffic.
> >>dave henrie
> >what is the obsession of the US of using auto gears in cars. i'm not
> >getting at the US too much here i just want to know why anyone would
> >possibly prefer one over driving a car with a manual gearbox.
> >the only time we use autos in europe is in dodgem cars isn't it ??
> >Rich
> I had a manual transmission car once. After trying to drive it in rush hour
> stop-n-go traffic, the novelty wore off REAL quick.... Never again.... I don't
> know why anyone would possibly prefer the manual...<g>
> Eldred
> --
> Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
> Own Grand Prix Legends? Goto http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc
> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
> with experience...
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