rec.autos.simulators

by **Todd Sorense** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 05:45:01

Let's shut down the breweries.

> Fine. I'll retract my call for it to be shut down.

> From now on I'll just continue to call it a ***form of auto racing that
> has far more in common with the WWF than anything else.

> 49 year old drivers? Artificial close racing? Dead bodies? Beer, beer,
and
> more beer.

> David G Fisher

> > Don't watch or participate in things you find to be upsetting or that
> > otherwise go against your ethical grain. Don't force your opinions on
> > others that aren't receptive. Much of your reasoning is flawed - you
draw
> > conclusions that are not backed up by your stated opinions masquerading
as
> > facts. The bottom line is that, as in everything, humans are
individuals
> > and by definition make their own choices. To put it crassly, who the
hell
> > do you think you are? If Dale wanted to run with an open faced helmet,
> then
> > by all means, let him. It was his life to lose, not yours. Since your
> such
> > a big F1 fan and safety expert, then please why don't you call up Bernie
> and
> > tell him how he could've prevented that corner workers death last
season?
> > Get a grip.

> > --
> > Philip D'Amato

> > 00 ZX-6R
> > 00 S4

> > <snip>

by **ymenar** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 05:48:00

> Man, I gotta hand it to you: this is the single most incredible piece of
> flamebait I've seen in this forum in five or so years of dropping in
> here -- true Troll-Hall-of-Fame-quality nonsense. I award you the
> Fran?ois Menard Memorial Golden Turd with dingleberry clusters and
> undigested peanuts. Bravo! U R awesome!

Ouch.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how
hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Lannie Schafrot** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 06:03:10

Get a clue before you post, not worth reading your post.

by **Han Monsee** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 06:03:18

<Snap: David G Fisher wrote that NASCAR should close down because of the
recent lethal accidents>

David,

You should realise that motorsports is a dangerous business. Whatever you do
in the name of safety, from introducing seatbelts to emasculating circuits,
there will always be a certain risk. There will always be deaths.

Even in the two most safety-concious racing series; CART and F1, 5 drivers
have been killed in recent history (Ratzenberger, Senna, Krosnoff, G.
Rodriguez and Moore) and besides them several marshalls and spectators.

I believe we have done almost anything we can do to provide maximum safety;
I think we cannot anticipate to the kind of accident that proves lethal
today. We can only learn from them and prevent them from happening again.

I have sympathy with anyone who is shattered by the death of Dale Earnhardt.
But they should all realise that death is a terrible but inevitable part of
motorsport and that Dale accepted the risk.

Eventually, we have to move on, but for now don't deny your saddnes. and
remember that Dale's death might safe lives of other drivers in similar
crashes.

grtngs,
hgrm

by **Scott B. Huste** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 06:18:05

LOL!

--
Scott B. Husted
"PA-Scott"
ICQ# 4395450

by **Thom j** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 06:33:30

Yupper, we got 100s :o)

| If we can have one of those burning oil drums as well, I'm on my way ;-)
|
| MS
|

| > Now Now Jan, We all don't drink beer here in the US you know!! We do
| > have cheap "Thunderbird Wine" too! It's even better in a brown paper bag
| > and especially while we're all*** on street corners gettin`
| > drunk...haha
| > Cheers Thom_j.
| >

| > | Hey... that's not so bad. If the beer were any good, that is. <g>
| > |
| > | Jan.
| > | =---
| > | Don Chapman wrote...
| > | > <snip>
| > | > Yep, stupid American general public, we have nothing to watch
| > | > but Nascar and nothing to drink but beer.
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

by **Eldre** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 06:36:50

>49 year old drivers? Artificial close racing? Dead bodies? Beer, beer, and
>more beer.

A.J. Foyt, Mario Andretti, and probably others raced Indycars well into their
50's. Do you have the same feelings about them?

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 06:36:50

>Let's shut down the Indianapolis 500 as
>well!!(2 deaths in the 90's).

2?!? Scott Brayton and who? Jovy Marcello was in 1987, I think. I can't
think of anyone else right now...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 06:36:50

>Shut it down or just count the races until the next dead driver is pulled
>from his car. Then the people who are in charge of NASCAR, and it's fans can
>once again pay tribute to them.

I'm amazed that you actually seem to *believe* that rant...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...F3 hcp. +373.73

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Art McEwe** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 06:43:02

Paul Newman was in this year's Daytona 24hours and he's into his 70's, my
dad says you need less sleep as you get older.

by **David G Fishe** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:48:34

What the hell does mileage have to do with anything? NASCAR drivers rarely
use something called a brake pedal, so they will accumulate a lot of
mileage.

David G Fisher

> >No dead drivers in F1 since 1994. 1982 before that.

> >Four dead in NASCAR in the past season + one race this year.

> >NASCAR is a badly run auto racing series. F1 is light years ahead of it.

> It's hard to compare apples to oranges. But better that than
> apples and fruitcakes...

> One thing to consider is the man-mileage accumulated. The 2000 F1
> season consisted of 3214 miles. With 22 drivers, the season consisted
> of about 70,700 man-miles (actually less, due to drivers dropping out
> of races, but this assumption actually favors more accumulated milage
> in F1 than NASCAR).

> The 2000 NASCAR Winston Cup season was about 13,500 miles. With 43
> drivers, the season consisted of 580,000 man-miles, or about 8.2 times
> the length of the F1 season. Also, since you want include BGN and CTS
> deaths to pad your argument, we've got to include the mileage as well.
> Let's pick arbitrary numbers of 8100 miles (60% distance) times 38
> drivers for ~308,000 BGN man-miles, 6750 miles (50% distance) times 32
> drivers for ~216,000 CTS man-miles.

> So for 2000, we have F1 running 70,700 man-miles with no driver
> fatalities (but one racing official fatality). We have NASCAR
> WC/BGN/CTS running 1,104,000 man-miles with four fatalities (I'm
> giving you this year's Daytona as a freebie) or one fatality per
> 276,000 man-miles.

> If you extrapolate F1's man-mileage numbers back to 1994 (seven
> years, 1994-2000), you get two driver fatalities over 495,000
> man-miles, or one fatality per 248,000 man-miles.

> So, David, one more time, which series is it that "safety is a
> science" and which series "is a joke and the modern equivalent of the
> galdiator races"? Sorry, but from the numbers I'm having trouble
> making the crystal-clear distinction that you seem to be able to
> divine.

> "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
> nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
> a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

by **Dave Henri** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:53:34

"David G Fisher"
Thats a good point. But lets do a little game called 'what if'
what if there was no TV coverage of Nascar
what if there were not millions to be made
what if racing for folks like Dale Earnhardt was just
like the thousands of club and semi-pro racers around
the country. Would Dale and others like him still race?
The fact that we are voyeurs of death and mayhem does not
say well for ourselves....but I really doubt that a racer
like Earnhardt or Kenny Schrader would be happy
selling cars or partaking in any other career.
If you asked most amateur and professional drivers
would they still race without the big money and fame,
I'm thinking they would pretty much vote to keep
racing. So whether we watch or not is irrelevant.
dave henrie
ps...hope you have time to answer all these posts...:)

by **David G Fishe** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:12:18

If they could still support themselves financially, then yes, I'm sure most
of them would continue to race in some form. As long as they don't hurt
anyone else, then therey are free to do so.

Everyday NASCAR asks the public to support it and become a fan. My original
post is simply me finally replying to NASCAR and it's supporters. NASCAR is
a poorly run form of auto racing. Four deaths in nine months. That deserves
to be criticized. If it was F1, the NFL, NBA, or any other professional
sport, I'd say the same thing.

And no, I don't have the time to reply to all of the posts in this thread
although I'll try my best. :-(

David G Fisher

by **Gerry Aitke** » Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:21:27

> And no, I don't have the time to reply to all of the posts in this thread

How very convenient for you.

rec.autos.simulators

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down

NASCAR Should Be Shut Down