much time on this final follow up, I hope you all will forgive the fact that
I have continued this topic by creating a new thread and essentially posting
twice. If I offend I apologize, but this guy really hit a nerve.
David,
I did not want you to apologize for criticizing Nascar. It deserves to be
scrutinized right now. What I was hoping you would apologize for is the
crass, rude, insensitive, prejudiced and ultimately sick way you went about
it. In your post you demeaned Nascar fans, you demeaned Nascar drivers
living and fallen, and you even managed to demean the early pioneers of all
forms of motorsport. In my opinion, you demeaned motorsports fans in
general. You ignorantly portrayed F1 governing bodies as safety innovators,
who always put safety ahead of money and the "circus", which history clearly
shows is not true. You ignorantly portrayed F1 racing as immune to deaths
from racing incidents. You arrongantly portrayed F1 drivers and fans as
superior to all other forms of motorsport. I was merely giving you a way to
apologize for these transgressions. If the true purpose of your post had
been to criticize Nascar to help further safety measures, then you would
probably have been better off e-mailing Nascar or starting a petition that
all fans of motorsport could get behind. Instead you wrote an inflammatory
post that
served no purpose but to generate needless debate at a sad time for all
motorsports fans. Like I said in my original repsonse, I thought I
remembered you as a sensible person from past contributions to this group
and I was hoping to give you a chance to explain yourself, or at least
explain the mean spirited aspects of your post. Unfortunately, you have
shown your true colors and I will ignore your future posts from now on. This
was truely a troll post if there ever was one.
Here is wishing for a safe remaining motorsports season for all!
Don Chapman
Read on if interested:
-----Final
Response----------------------------------------------------------------
> For the umpteenth time, there have been four driver deaths in NASCAR in
the
> past nine months. No driver deaths in F1 since 1994. It's a badly run
sport
> because these deaths could have been prevented ( the HANS device certainly
> would helped).
have, but there is no way to know for sure. In your opinion, was F1 a badly
run sport for 50 years up until the 1994 tragedies? You seem to think that
the only form of legitimate auto racing is post 1994 F1. There were four
deaths in 3 different series in Nascar. I am not disputing that Nascar needs
to do something. They do. One death in 100 years is too much in my opinion,
but the main point of my original post was that ALL forms of auto racing are
dangerous and have death as a potential outcome! In your original post, you
made rash statments about deaths in auto racing like,
"Bullshit. It isn't a part of all types of auto racing. Just NASCAR. Formula
1 hasn't had a driver die since 1994. Before that it was 1982. NASCAR is
about beer and crashes. Safety is a science in F1, and their record proves
it."
and
" If you support NASCAR, then you support the INEVITABLE death of it's
drivers. How the hell are you then sad when one dies? Turns my stomach when
I read or see the melodramatic tributes to a fan favorite"
These are the irrational, prejudiced and uniformed statements I was
disputing. Let me tell you about safety in F1. You seem to be harping on the
HANS device which I agree should be mandated in all forms of auto racing.
But let's see, how many major racing series have required this device? NONE
until this year, 2001. This will be the first season that it is mandated in
F1, CART, and I believe the IRL. But guess what, Robert Hubbard invented the
HANS Device with Jim Downing in the early 1980's!! The early 1980's!! So why
is F1 just now implementing this device twenty years later if they are all
about safety!! From Autoracing1.com:
"Perhaps the most compelling fact about the HANS? Device is that not a
single driver who has worn one in a crash has suffered a neck or head
injury. With more than 250 units currently in use, the HANS? Device works
every time according to its co-creator Bob Hubbard."
Ok, so it sounds great, and again I agree it should be mandated and it may
have prevented the Nascar deaths of the past nine months, but again, if it
is that cut and dry, then why is F1 just now requiring the use of this
device?? After Tony Roper died in the truck race at Texas last year, a bunch
of the drivers went and got fitted for the device and ran with it at
Fontana. So, even though it was not mandated, the drivers were smart enough
to realize the necessity of this device. How many F1 drivers used the HANS
device last year? I don't know, I'm asking. I saw every F1 race last year
and I do not believe I ever saw Michael Schumacher using the HANS device.
Maybe I am wrong. I have seen in your other posts that you are championing
Michael Schumacher as some kind of safety king who can do no wrong and may
be the greatest driver of all time. First off let me state that I am a huge
Formula One fan and I have been following it since the early 70's. Let me
also state that I am somewhat of a Michael Schumacher fan. However, I also
have enough commen sense to be able to make unbiased judgements when it
comes to Forumula One, Nascar, CART, IRL, and its drivers. Let's talk about
Michael Schumacher and safety in racing. I think he may be one of the
greatest "driving" technicians. However, his "racing" abilities are very
questionable. He punted Damon Hill out of his chance for the championship in
1995 and tried to do the same thing to Jacques Villenueve in 1997. Last year
he pulled a blocking move on Mikka that if not for Mikka's amazing reflexes
could have resulted in a terrible accident for both of them. He blocked
Coulthard, and he caused a pile up on a re-start and blamed others when his
late breaking tactics resulted in an accident. He could not even race wheel
to wheel with his own brother without crashing into him. The point is, this
is not safe driving. This is very unsafe driving and there are drivers in F1
who think Michael should have been put on probabtion for some of these
moves. Did FIA put him on probation, no! Why? Because he is the star driver.
> Senna (no deaths since), if it hadn't and drivers continued to die due to
> poor management, then I'd criticize it the same way I've criticized
NASCAR.
> NASCAR does not evolve. It just continues to deny that anything can be
done
> to make it safer. The past nine months prove that. It's a badly run sport
if
> for no other reason then their continued failure to make a device such as
> the HANS mandatory.
NASCAR will evolve or I will discontinue watching the series myself. What I
am disputing is your contention that F1 is some safety innovator and is 100%
safe. My only point was, up until the last nine months, Nascar basically
equaled F1 in deaths of the past decade. Historically, all saftey changes in
racing have come AFTER tragedy. Would Senna have been saved by the HANS
device? No one will ever know, but it surely would have been available if
they had really wanted it. My guess is F1 has probably been testing this
device for years and just now feel that it is time to make it mandatory.
CART has followed suit. I am glad for this. I sure as hell hope that Nascar
follows. But if your supposed safety leader had not yet implemented it as
mandatory, you can hardly point to Nascar and claim its a badly run sport
that equals the WWF. Last year F1 did not make the HANS device mandatory, so
was it a badly run sport then? Pedro de La Rossa and Johnny Herbert both had
terrible crashes that they were lucky to walk away from. Can this be
attributed to safety in F1, probably, but I guarantee those drivers looked
death in the face for a few seconds. Did they have the HANS device? Nascar
also had some terrible looking crashes that the drivers walked away from
without a scratch. Was that just dumb luck, or are there actually safety
features that saved these drivers. Speaking of that, if F1 is so safe, why
did a course worker die. Because he was in a restricted area? Why was he
able to get into a restricted area? Why was a spectator able to get on the
damn track at Hockenheim!! How safe was that for the drivers and the
disgruntled fan? If F1 puts safety ahead of the "circus" then why does Eau
Rouge still exist at SPA? This has got to be the most dangerous stretch of
track in F1. Have you seen the horrific accidents that have happend there in
practice? Talk about luck. How about this? I saw one of your other posts
suggesting that Nascar call F1 to get ideas on replacing their concrete
walls. Well, if F1 is so concerned about safety, why are they running at
Indianapolis on half an oval at high speeds with concrete walls on both
sides and running in the RAIN! Talk about unsafe. Even Nascar, IRL and CART
are smart enough to not run on high speed ovals in the rain. I was there in
turn one, and believe me I was scared about the start. I was praying these
guys would make it through ok. Fortunately they did, and the race had few
incidents. However, there had been concerns about the high speed turns and
the concrete walls. But you want to know the main reason F1 ran there? It
was the largest attended F1 race in history which equals money. FIA even
awarded it F1 event of the year, concrete walls be damned.
10
> feet to either side of me. No rollcage. I guess my skin was my rollcage.
> Launched myself high in the air, etc. People used to tell me how brave I
was
> to do that. I
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