rec.autos.simulators

   And if you started 50 cars per race, it would have the same level
of risk as starting 22?  

   And you think that the number of starters and the miles they cover
per season have no impact whatsoever on the level of risk of a given
series?

Cmon David, your "bigotry" to the sport is apparent. Stop going to the
extremes, your ridiculising yourself.  You had a point, which actually could
had holded if you did not go that far.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how
hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

The reason they can't "figure it out" is because your suggestions make no
sense to the sport of NASCAR Racing outside of the soft wall technology.

You can mandate the hans device and put airbags in the car as far as I'm
concerned, it won't guarantee drivers won't die when they go from 170+ mph
to 0.  NASCAR racing is NOT F1 or any other form of ROAD RACING.  Its a
unique form of racing and if you can't accept that fact, then you shouldn't
watch it because all the drivers and true fans understand the risks
involved.

The human body does not tolerate those kind of g-forces well no matter what
device you are wearing.   You can wear whatever you want in NASCAR as some
drivers have worn the Hans device and some chose not too.  It's a conscious
decision on their part.  Not having a full helmet had no effect on what
happened to DE from anything I have read.   The rest of your ideas don't
have any bearing worth responding too.  The only thing you left out was
replacing the V8s with Briggs and Stratons and require all the cars to have
governors and limiters keeping them under the 5mph bumper test limits.

--
Scott B. Husted
"PA-Scott"
ICQ# 4395450

You ingnore the stats regarding sport participation vs mortality.
Then you carefully choose your timeframe for measuring mortality and
ignore the other stats offered. This destroys your statistical
validity.

Actually, you don't know if they are going to accept these stats or
not. I bet we see some changes.

In truth you see NASCAR as you do because of the bigotry I've already
mentioned. You just re-confirmed it.

BD

   Hmmm, 134 posts and counting and one person agrees with you.
There's "a majority of sensible people"...  :)

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

But, imo, I do find that the miles per deaths theory has some fatal
flaws. There are just too many varibles.

   That's right.  In David's elitist little world, only F1 drivers
count.  Little people like corner marshalls or beer-drinking
NASCAR-fan trash (which, of course, describes *all* NASCAR fans) don't
count.  Acknowledging a death caused by his precious F1 drivers
("where safety is a science!") might tarnish their superior safety
record.

"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

Sure you are increasing your odds of a death with a longer season but it
doesn't make it anymore dangerous. You could have a 1 race season and
have 5 deaths but then run a 500 race season and have none.

Just like russian roulette. With each pull of the trigger does it make
it more dangerous? no, it just increases the odds. There is a
difference.

Neither would have helped Dale, but it could go through and could be
beneficial. Hopefully, it can be made less bulky in some way so that its easier
to escape from a burning vehicle.

I doubt it will happen. The manufacturers and purists would have a fit. That
and it would only help in driver's side impacts, none of which were the cause
of death for any of the 4 drivers you so campaign for.

5 wide instead of 3 wide won't save anyone.

I agree for the most part. The system used at Indy during the IROC race would
be a huge improvement...it probably saved Arie's life.

1. NASCAR has something F1 doesn't. Its called parity. Hence, those in NASCAR
generally don't have to deal with traffic in the way F1 drivers do.

2. Cost: Unless you shoot costs up, and I mean WAY up, the sponsors and teams
will NEVER let this through.

You want to see what Daytona is like w/o plates? Watch the truck race. Oddly,
they still run in packs, and still need the draft. Removing plates won't work
either: having a car go airborne at 230mph and kill the driver and fans is less
tolerable to 180mph and only killing the driver.

Only the soft wall and helmet rules would be effective or have a chance at ever
passing.

                                           Dale Earnhardt, 1951-2001:
                                            "The Last American Hero"
                                                            R.I.P.

So what happens if Nigel Mansell comes back? What about Mario Andretti and AJ
Foyt, guys who, when racing in the early 90 and late 80s were hardly nubile?
How did Earnhardt run an Enduro as well as open wheel drivers?

Sears Point? Portland? Watkins Glen?

Get this: They're SUPPOSED to be like production model cars.

So you're an elitest? Why didn't you say that at the start?

Hell, you probably like Rally too, even though it has the dumbest fans on earth
("lets run out on the road....yea!").

-and you're still combining multiple racing series under one banner for your
own use, get off it-
 Alan

                                           Dale Earnhardt, 1951-2001:
                                            "The Last American Hero"
                                                            R.I.P.

That, and none of us know the statistics on F3000 and other developmental
series in Europe. I doubt their record has been perfect.

-
 Alan

                                           Dale Earnhardt, 1951-2001:
                                            "The Last American Hero"
                                                            R.I.P.

BB

Next year there might be no deaths in NASCAR then all of a sudden
have(god forbid) six in F1.
That doesn't make NASCAR any better or worse and the same with F1. It is
just the way it is.
I'm not denying the fact that NASCAR could improve it's safety but death
depends on which way the cards fall.

Shumey could have been easily killed or that one F1 driver who flipped
in the sand and got his head squashed or many other F1 incidents. How
about JV's crash at Spa? He could of easily died there as well. F1 has
just been lucky and NASCAR hasn't. A few years ago CART was unlucky
losing several drivers. It wasn't because their cars weren't safe it was
just bad luck.
But I like how CART is trying everything in their power to avoid another
which is a reason why they mandated the HANS for the ovals. I hope
NASCAR does the same.

It is all luck, err more like bad luck.

BB

Predictably, the NASCAR fans on this newgroup exhibitied the same denial in
this thread that NASCAR fans all over the country have been exhibiting since
the death of the three drivers last year, and since Earnhardt's death. They
will continue to so after the next NASCAR driver is killed due to***poor
management of the sport.

David G Fisher