rec.autos.simulators

by **Robert Twee** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:04:40

An interesting perspective. Another perspective is that the US has never
actually won a war, apart from the American civil war. Hasty actions are not
a good thing, especially when the "enemy" is misunderstood and by
implication most likely underestimated.

- Robert

> Afghanistan was the USSR's version of Vietnam -- they never declared
> war.

> This attack on the U.S. is an undeniable act of war.

> Once we figure out who's responsible for this, I predict that the U.S.
> and its allies will declare war on whatever country is granting
> shelter to the responsible parties.

> If we declare war, it won't be another Vietnam.

> The U.S. has never lost a war.

> -- JB

> On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:38:30 GMT, "Brandon J. Van Every"

> >> I'm not sure about all the crystal-ball stuff (intersting though it
is),
> >but
> >> there is now a definite, very real threat of WW3. No good can come of
> >this.

> >I dunno about that. The responsible party would have to have a defense
> >treaty with someone, and there are places, such as Iraq, that are so
> >irresponsible that their neighbors mignt not mind seeing them overrun by
the
> >West. Iraq would be good because we know we can do something about it.
> >Afghanistan would be awful, the USSR went bankrupt fighting over there.

> >--
> >Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
> >Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

> >People who make personal attacks are useless.
> >I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Brandon J. Van Ever** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:34:42

Pakistan has got nukes now. Iraq probably doesn't, but probably has other
*** weapons. I wonder if the timing of this is less than coincidental of
someone thinking they have a "capability."

It would not be feasible to take on the entire terrorist world. Hopefully
the perpetrators are diplomatically isolated.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Robert Twee** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:33:45

> > > Yeah, its on tv. They were handed candy, told of the atrocity, and
> cheered
> > > like a bunch of pussies. And here I felt bad for the ***ers when the
> jews
> > > were pushing them around. They deserve what they get.

> > I had concluded awhile ago that they're both ***s and they have to
> solve
> > their own problems. In such a situation, 3rd parties can only try to
get
> > both sides to talk peace. If they won't, then you just have to stand
back
> > and watch them kill each other.

> It is so very hard to judge two groups of people without understanding.
I'm
> totally confused about why there is so much hatred in that region. I
> certainly don't have an answer, but it's painful to watch the sufferings.

Zionism.

- Robert

by **Brandon J. Van Ever** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:42:32

Don't be so sure that all terrorists are united. There may be some rogue
terroist faction that other terrorists would like to see destroyed. It
depends on the diplomacy.

Have you forgotten that we're already "inhabiting" Iraq. Iraq, if
responsible, would simply be inhabited much more thoroughly this time.

Unless they seize another window of opportunity in coming months, before
security changes are made, I don't think they're going to take over any more
planes with only knives and box cutters. The m***of the story may be that
if the hijackers don't have guns, you'd better fight them. It is possible
that USA airports will become like European airports, with soldiers with
machine guns walking around.

That's why if you're going to do it, you do it thoroughly.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Conno** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:43:00

Seeing this video, I can't help but be angry--and yet I know these people
were wrongly influenced since birth by a society that condones ***--in
the name of religion, no less. So what do we do about a society of people
that was raised to believe that these senseless acts were actually cause for
celebration? How are we supposed to respond to these misled people who
actually think the inhumane slaughter of thousands of innocents is "the hand
of God delivering justice"? Every time they replay this video I shake my
head in disgust and bewilderment.

> > > And crowds in Palestein cheered.

> > Do you have a credible news source for that?

> NBC showed footage of them parading through the streets flashing victory
> signs. Sick.

by **Brandon J. Van Ever** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:46:45

You haven't played Chairman Yang in Sid Meyer's Alpha Centauri. :-) Or, to
be more historically poignant about it, haven't payed attention to Lenin's
maxim that "religion is the opiate of the people." Evil has been done in
the name of atheism. The war against Communism in the 50's was often
characterized as God vs. Atheism.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Asbj?rn Bj?rnst** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:46:55

> This attack on the U.S. is an undeniable act of war.

I don't think so. I have heard no news about a declaration of war
against the USA as part of this.

Unless it is Timothy McVeighs fanclub I guess.
--
-asbjxrn

by **Brandon J. Van Ever** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:51:26

Well it all depends upon terrain. Flat is easy, jungles and mountains are a
***. The Middle East has been conquered over and over again because it's
flat. Afghanistan ain't flat, which is why Soviet rockets didn't do much
good there.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Brandon J. Van Ever** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:56:28

I have incredible sadness, because I cannot explain to the people who
crashed the planes why what they did was wrong. They wouldn't believe me
that they're simply dead, that all the people they killed are dead, that
nobody went to Allah or Heaven or any such thing. In my mind's eye I see a
lot of bodies that were happy people just a day ago. I see people who made
choices to help others even though it cost them their lives.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Robert Twee** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:03:22

> > To be fair, it actually is. Those who do not understand Islam should
check
> > the facts before jumping to conclusions. Unfortunatetly there are those
> who
> > twist Islam so support their own ends in the same way that there are
those
> > that would twist Christianity, Judaism, etc. Aetheism is simple because
> > there is no word of god to corrupt in the first place.

> You haven't played Chairman Yang in Sid Meyer's Alpha Centauri. :-) Or,
to
> be more historically poignant about it, haven't payed attention to Lenin's
> maxim that "religion is the opiate of the people." Evil has been done in
> the name of atheism. The war against Communism in the 50's was often
> characterized as God vs. Atheism.

That's a tenuous comparison at best.

- Robert

by **Robert Twee** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:04:41

> > I wouldn't look at it from that narrow a historical perspective. What we
> > could be looking at is a global terrorist/guerilla war, rather than a
> > conventional war. If this turns out to be the work of islamic militants
> then
> > you could have a situation that is more comparable to Vietnam than to
WW1
> or
> > WW2, just with more countries involved.

> Well it all depends upon terrain. Flat is easy, jungles and mountains are
a
> ***. The Middle East has been conquered over and over again because
it's
> flat. Afghanistan ain't flat, which is why Soviet rockets didn't do much
> good there.

Terrain is a factor in certain types of warefare, we may not be talking
about that type of warfare.

- Robert

by **Brandon J. Van Ever** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:10:04

Actually, to pick an important nit, it's an emminently deniable act of war
because the aggressor hasn't revealed itself. Either the various terrorist
groups who couldn't pull it off haven't checked in with their $0.02 yet, or
one who has is lying.

First the US will demand extradition. Guilty people won't be handed over,
so then there will be bombings. That won't change their minds, so then
there will be an expeditionary force to capture whomever is responsible,
wherever their bases are. It is possible that the US will never declare war
on a country, but it is almost a certainty that someone's soverign territory
will be violated. Unless by some amazing quirk of internal Islamic
politics, some group actually hands over another group because they want to
get rid of them.

Of course, military resistance from the host country would make it easier,
since then we could just go ahead and invade the whole country. I think
terrorists actually benefit more from political hide-and-seek. It slows
everything down, gives everyone a chance to watch CNN, have second thoughts,
and for resolve to crumble. It's very easy to overrun another country when
they're yelling "Nyah nah nee nah nyaaah, wee bommbed your buiill-dings!"
and you're a lot stronger than they are.

The wild card is whether the terrorists have anything else up their sleeves.
Weapons of mass destruction, ***crime attacks on infrastructure, that sort
of thing.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Asbj?rn Bj?rnst** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:11:48

> > > To be fair, it actually is. Those who do not understand Islam should
> check
> > > the facts before jumping to conclusions. Unfortunatetly there are those
> > who
> > > twist Islam so support their own ends in the same way that there are
> those
> > > that would twist Christianity, Judaism, etc. Aetheism is simple because
> > > there is no word of god to corrupt in the first place.

> > You haven't played Chairman Yang in Sid Meyer's Alpha Centauri. :-) Or,
> to
> > be more historically poignant about it, haven't payed attention to Lenin's
> > maxim that "religion is the opiate of the people." Evil has been done in
> > the name of atheism. The war against Communism in the 50's was often
> > characterized as God vs. Atheism.

> That's a tenuous comparison at best.

Yes, even if it is true (I haven't heard it before.) I doubt that the war
against Capitalism was characterized as Athesim vs. God, which was the
point. That christians have had wars against non-believers is nothing new.
--
-asbjxrn

by **Brandon J. Van Ever** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:12:30

Huh? We thoroughly kicked Japan's ass in WW II, almost single-handedly.

That's why the Japanese lost BTW. Awoke a sleeping giant.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Will DeRiver** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:14:44

> > This attack on the U.S. is an undeniable act of war.

> I don't think so. I have heard no news about a declaration of war
> against the USA as part of this.

No, it's an act of war, not a declaration of war. Two different things.

- Will

rec.autos.simulators

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