rec.autos.simulators

by **Brandon J. Van Ever** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:06:21

Nice polite conversation in Embassy: "Oh, thank you, thank you so much for
tea cake. Very kind. And now we have document for you, honorable American.
Look out window, we are at WAR!!!" <whack! chop! sock! ow. eyye!>

I think in American minds, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was
"honorable" only by comparison to the current crisis.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Jan Verschuere** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:21:44

Nice sentiment, however the US and the rest of the western world have high
economic stakes riding on political stability in some of the regions you
mentioned. It's not because your country is not directly under threat it
doesn't have interests it is prepared to defend by military force.

Jan.
=---
"Brandon J. Van Every" wrote...

by **Dave Henri** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:24:18

If you assasinate the Imperial Leader, one whom is thought to be of devine
birth, you will create a nation of martyrs. We might still be engaged in
Japan if the Emporer had been killed. We needed to defeat the military and
break their grip on the Japanese public. What has happened since is
testament about the sucess of those tactics.
dave henrie

> >>> > And crowds in Palestein cheered.

> >>> Do you have a credible news source for that?

> >>NBC showed footage of them parading through the streets flashing victory
> >>signs. Sick.

> > We cheered when we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

> That is even more sickening. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed
> and people had the nerve to cheer? That is just sick. Why didn't they just
> take out Hirohito, rather than punish his civilians?

> Paul
> --

> 10000+ Humorous Quotes http://www.tomkoinc.com/quotes.html
> "Even if you can deceive people about a product through misleading
statements,
> sooner or later the product will speak for itself." - Hajime Karatsu

by **Brandon J. Van Ever** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:25:15

The act itself is. But unfortunately, the strategic picture is unilateral.
The USA got bombed. The rest of the world isn't about to be taken over,
like in WW II. Also many of our citizens are much better educated and more
affluent than in WW II. We will indeed have to answer the question of our
resolve. Will we go into a job with a determination to finish what we
start?

It's a question of whether future generations have to pay the "skyscraper
tax."

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Brandon J. Van Ever** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:27:44

> >Find them. Try them, fairly. Punish them, justly.

> Justly? What are we going to do, kill them 20,000 times and keep reviving
> them? There is no justice for what they have done. They believe they have
done
> a righteous thing. Locking them away forever, they will only sit and
> glory in their righteousness. If you kill them right away, it is too
> merciful. There is no justice for what they have done.

Right, which is why I'm only interested in finding and killing the entire
regime responsible. It's not a matter of justice, it's a matter of
operative survival. Preventing that particular regime from ever doing such
a thing to anybody ever again, and sending a strong message that other
would-be regimes will suffer the same fate.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Brandon J. Van Ever** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:32:06

There is the cynical theory that the USA knew all about the pending attack
and just needed an atrocity to galvanize the nation into entering WW II. In
that scenario, you'd expect the best ships to be out on maneuvers. I've
never investigated the veracity of this theory however.

How does it compare to the present? I don't believe any American could
sacrifice 10,000 citizens for the cause of anti-terrorism. I believe the
terrorists were simply sneaky and successful. It is, after all, possible to
be successful in battle. Not everything is a media ***.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Brandon J. Van Ever** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:33:20

More likely Japan would be glowing and uninhabitable.

Yep and that's important to remember. We've done it before and we can do it
again.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Brandon J. Van Ever** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:37:44

I'm not interested in spilling American *** so that Bell can have another
helicopter contract and a mining company can get its hands on Srebka (sp?).
Corporations who want stability for profit, and who are willing to trade
someone else's *** for that, can go *** themselves. Let the CEOs
themselves fight those wars! This is different. The territory of the USA
has been attacked with massive casualties. This is self-defense, not
corporate cynicism.

--
Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **jacksix...** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:46:46

Unilateral?

Name one Western nation without a stake in the World Trade Center. I
can't agree with you. Our citizens are the very factor that sponsor
nations should fear. When we are the bully, we make mistakes. This
is known and we are ridiculed for it, but when we are struck it only
makes us stronger. What this attack has done is give every American a
good reason to be willing to die for their country. We cannot be
beaten if the American people are wholly in support of our
government's actions.

It's not that we are weak, it is that we are gentle and only use
enough force neccessary.

We tried isolationism and that allowed WWII to become a world war.
Now we are attacked on US soil and you think that any educated
American would prefer to just take this one on the chin? Please
correct me if I'm wrong. And I hope I am wrong.

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:25:15 GMT, "Brandon J. Van Every"

> ...But unfortunately, the strategic picture is unilateral.
>The USA got bombed. The rest of the world isn't about to be taken over,
>like in WW II. Also many of our citizens are much better educated and more
>affluent than in WW II. We will indeed have to answer the question of our
>resolve. Will we go into a job with a determination to finish what we
>start?
>...

>--
>Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
>Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

>People who make personal attacks are useless.
>I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **jacksix...** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 05:50:16

Ok, I get your point now. I agree with you here. I wish you'd put
all of your thoughts into one post so I could have agreed with you on
some points. In fact, I think you've stated the difference between
the US and these terrorists and sponsor nations. We will be satisfied
if we get the guys who did this. We will not attack just anyone to
exact vengeance.

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:27:44 GMT, "Brandon J. Van Every"

>Right, which is why I'm only interested in finding and killing the entire
>regime responsible. It's not a matter of justice, it's a matter of
>operative survival. Preventing that particular regime from ever doing such
>a thing to anybody ever again, and sending a strong message that other
>would-be regimes will suffer the same fate.

>--
>Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
>Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

>People who make personal attacks are useless.
>I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Jason Shanke** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 06:01:06

As an atheist, I'm inclined to agree with you. But I don't think
eliminating religion is the answer. Religion is a reflection of human
nature, not vice-versa. Human beings like to kill each other. If we're
forced to give up one bullshit excuse, we'll just make up another one.
Stalin didn't need God to justify his actions.

--
Jason Shankel
Maxis/EA
s h a n k e l "at" p o b o x . c o m
Play rich, creamery OpenTrek at www.pobox.com/~shankel/opentrek.html
"This is very dangerous -- look how large those *** ***es are."
Chief Yim Symany, Phnom Pehn Police Dept.

by **Memnoc** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 06:12:21

>> Any person or country that supports Terrorism. Bin Laden should be under
>>arrest already...Arafat for failing to control the *** in the West Bank
>>should be held as a conspirator. Countries such as Afganistan and Pakistan
>>for supporting Bin Laden should be militarily crippled. Syria for letting
>>the Bekaa valley be a haven for terroism. Iraq for funneling funds to
>>terrorsists. The list could go on and on....Cut off Terrorism at the head,

>You forgot IRA. I'm sure there are other terrorist groups too.

Go to this page for a long list of international groups/entities:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Jason Shanke** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 06:24:23

> >No anger. No fear. No bickering among ourselves. No hatred. No witch
> >hunts. No paranoia.

> >This is what they want.

> >Find them. Try them, fairly. Punish them, justly.

> Justly? What are we going to do, kill them 20,000 times and keep reviving
> them? There is no justice for what they have done. They believe they have
done
> a righteous thing. Locking them away forever, they will only sit and
> glory in their righteousness. If you kill them right away, it is too
> merciful. There is no justice for what they have done.

There may be not justice, but there can certainly be injustice. We could
torture them. Starve them. Flay their flesh from their bones. Kill their
families and their families' friends before their eyes, slowly. We could
drag them through the streets. We could dehumanize them, utterly, as they
have done to us.

But we won't, and we must not. That's the difference between a civil
society and one driven by ***lust. That's what we like proclaim is the
difference between us and them.

--
Jason Shankel
Maxis/EA
s h a n k e l "at" p o b o x . c o m
Play rich, creamery OpenTrek at www.pobox.com/~shankel/opentrek.html
"This is very dangerous -- look how large those *** ***es are."
Chief Yim Symany, Phnom Pehn Police Dept.

by **Mattias Hembru** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 06:26:00

>> i got some words that come close for me. Emptyness.

>I have incredible sadness, because I cannot explain to the people who
>crashed the planes why what they did was wrong. They wouldn't believe me
>that they're simply dead, that all the people they killed are dead, that
>nobody went to Allah or Heaven or any such thing.

Says you. I, and a lot of your "fellow Americans" would disagree with you.

Mattias

by **Jason Shanke** » Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:03:16

> >I have incredible sadness, because I cannot explain to the people who
> >crashed the planes why what they did was wrong. They wouldn't believe me
> >that they're simply dead, that all the people they killed are dead, that
> >nobody went to Allah or Heaven or any such thing.

> Says you. I, and a lot of your "fellow Americans" would disagree with you.

> Mattias

True, but you have no basis for this disagreement. People believe in an
afterlife despite a complete lack of supporting evidence. Why is it that we
accept a lower standard of proof for the most profound existential question
than we do for the most mundane scientific theory?

I understand that religion gives people comfort, and I am loathe to deny
them that comfort. But it is an illusion. God had nothing to do with this
mess, nor will He be around to help us clean it up. This one has "humanity"
written all over it. We have no one else to blame nor anyone else to turn
to.

--
Jason Shankel
Maxis/EA
s h a n k e l "at" p o b o x . c o m
Play rich, creamery OpenTrek at www.pobox.com/~shankel/opentrek.html

rec.autos.simulators

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