rec.autos.simulators

"Henry" and establish a permanent
    Yes we came to the middle east, we came, we saw, we kicked ass.  Because
we were asked.  Because the Kuwati people were being***d, ***ed,
tortured, stolen from.  We came because WE also had an interest in the
economics of oil.  But we came by invitation.  The Saudi's too called for
help...I wonder if Saddam would have stopped at the Kuwati border if we
hadn't quickly established F-15's in Saudi.
  "oooh quick somebody help us, that *** Arab Saddam is going to steal our
oil.  How will we buy our hundreds of Mercedes?"
  WE are are the Hypocrites?  WE?  There are 3 or 4 Arab countries
surrounding Israel, With more than enough area to carve out a lasting place
for the Palistinians.  Do they?  No they USE the Palestinians to do their
dirty work, to harrass Israel while they look the other way or supply, train
and support covertly and overtly.
  The collected countries of the oil regions are some of the richest in the
world, yet we see on TV the squallor that most Arab citezins seem to be
trapped in.  The wealth of Saudi Arabia alone could alleviate much of the
regions suffering, but do they ?  Do Arabs help Arabs?  Only when they have
a common enemy.
  So we are the bad guy.  Did we GAS our neighbors?  Did we GAS our own
minorities?  Did we blow up Pizza Huts and then run for cover in Syria?  Did
we loot a Peaceful country just because it sat on an oil field?
  Yes we have made mistakes.  We have bombed  with missles and killed
innocents.  But with few exceptions, these were not unprovoked.
  Did we step in between two supposed Arab brothers and save Saudi?  did we
get over 200 US Marines blown up for this?  Did we seek to limit the danger
to the region by limiting Saddam's money to rebuild his military?  What
military DANGER does a pipsqueak like Saddam present to the USA?  He is a
bully in a small playground, and yet, at GREAT cost to ourselves, both in
money and human terms, we stay nearby to protect those who cannot protect
themselves from a 'brother'
  As long as ARABs refuse to accept responsiblity for their place in world,
for their actions, for their own refusal to accept peace, for protecting
their own neighbor's....  Then we standby, to protect our friends and kick
the hell out of our enemies.
  btw...didn't you notice...that BEFORE Rambo opened up a can of  'Whup Ass'
on the Russians and their proxies in the Middle East...he had run-ins with
Americans and Viet's.  Do you think the Arab countries are insulted that
they are not at the top of even Hollywood's lists?
dave henrie

--------------
Devo

If we had done what you're advocating now during World War II, Germany would
control Europe and Japan would control Asia. Is that what you wanted?

And by the way, if you're wondering what a few thousand dedicated inviduals
can do, I don't know. But I do know what a large, multinational force from
many countries can do. It can take them out. The biggest mistake Bin Laden
could have EVER made was uniting 99.9% of the world against terrorism. Even
Pakistan has abandoned him! Even the Sudan issued a statement condemning the
attack, as did Cuba and Libya. The only two countries in the world that
stand with him right now are Iraq and Afghanistan. And it's our fault? What
a joke.
b

Top the many who are writing we came we saw and we kicked ass, well we did.
And yes we were asked by several governments.  Please read though it is why
we came we saw and we kicked ass is exactly why bin Ladin is upset with us.

Also too many people are putting their own reasons for the attacks.  they
think its due to what the USA has done here or there, or the fact we did not
sign this or that.

I know to a normal person it makes no sense, but it does jive with what has
been happening. Looking back at what has happened since the Iraq War makes
sense and also why bin Ladin's name keeps cropping up with all the US
related terrorism.

Dave

Joe McGinn
_____________________
Radical Entertainment

No, it all makes plenty of sense.  The "sense" is, there are people in the
world that will decide to kill you for their own reasons.  No matter what
framework you do or don't restrain your actions in, someone with a different
cosmology can take a different view and decide to kill you for it.  Since we
don't even share the same basic cosmology for national responsibility, i.e.
the USA may have fought for oil, but so was Iraq as it stormed Kuwait, it
becomes irrelevant what the reasoning of the terrorist is.  They cannot be
pleased and now must be killed.  This is actually why we have the
institution of Law, so that individuals cannot tyrranize each other with
their own cosmologies of responsibility.  People tend to perfect their
cosmologies in a way that favors themselves: other people are to blame,
never themselves.

I'm fully aware of bad things the USA has done.  But it has never killed
5000 civilians in peacetime.  Frankly, nobody has before.  And that is why
we have m***certainty on this one.  It is not just an offense against the
USA, it is an offense against humanity.  Those nations that value humanity
know that they too can be victims of this, and that is why they will stand
alongside us and fight this.

--
Cheers,                                  www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every                        Seattle, WA

We want the perpetrators.  Anyone who stands in our way, dies.
No matter how few, or how many.  If it is 20, it is 20.
If it is 100,000, it is 100,000.

--
Jason Shankel
Maxis/EA
s h a n k e l "at" p o b o x . c o m
Play rich, creamery OpenTrek at www.pobox.com/~shankel/opentrek.html

Their gift to the USA was great and we should recognize it properly.

Personally I want to thank them and their faimlies.  The fathers, mothers,
wives and husbands of this group should be proud of what they did.  they how
prinicples that are not often found in this day and age.

Dave

also im having trouble grasping the logic here
why are ppl that sacrifice themselves in a sucidal attack for there idiology are
cowards
yet ppl who lanch missiles from many hundreds of kilometers away or carpet bomb
from aircraft many kilometers high with practically zero danger to themselves
are brave hero's!!!

reminds me of that piece in blackadder goes fourth something like
corp***- we have reason to believe we have been infiltrated by a german spy
melchoir - (slimy krauts doing their wezzeley underhanded devious tricks)
corp***- we were told this by one of own spies
melchoir - (brave fellows risking life and limb in the honourable job of
information gathering for old mother england)

--
-- captain lovespunk and the spaceship ecstasy -- preaching from S 3929'082  E
17654'781
far away in outer space in a galaxy called the milkyway
lived a man named captain lovespunk
GET IT HERE http://www.racesimcentral.net/;FREE BOLLUX

What god-damned "idiology" tells you to fly planes into buildings full of
innocent people.  And don't say religion.  Religion is an imperfect human
endeavor.  People draw the best from it.  Other draw the worst from it.
There's no justification, idiology or otherwise, for what happened.  I
wouldn't call those cowards, what was done was just evil.

This is not a time to discuss logic -- there is no logic in this.  If you
think there's any here, then tou can take your damned logic and stick it up
your ass.

There is absolutely nothing logical about war and what happens during war.
It makes men on both sides do unspeakable things.

The only thing that is logical is the solutions that are sometimes possible
after a war.  Solutions that have not be used in the last 40 some years.

Dave

Perhaps one unexpected side-effect for the terrorists from the WTC attack will
be that they will no longer be able to just take over an airplane with knives
or boxcutters again.  Passengers will now likely ignore any threats of bombs
or promises of eventual release, feeling they've nothing left to lose, that
inaction will only cost more people their lives in another heinous WTC-type
suicide attack, and gang together to fight the terrorists until they're
incapacitated or dead.  I'd sooner die fighting than crying.

        It's exactly what happened over here, in the Americas.  It's still
going on, too.  ndns have long felt a connection to Palestinians.

        You also get a lot of racist ***thrown in.  Much better would be to
look to some of the academic writing on the subject.  There are a number of
critiques of Zionism and Israeli policy written by Jews who oppose those
policies.

                                        -Tim

        There was a James Bond movie glorifying them as well.

        That has got to be the best description of what happened in laymans'
terms that I have seen.

        Henry, I don't think you'll be popular, but I think that you're
right in what is needed to stop terrorist attacks, from this front, against
the US.  Now, perhaps it isn't in our best interests to leave.  That is a
separate debate.

                                        -Tim