rec.autos.simulators

by **Uncle Marti** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:47:58

As Brandom points out, the first nuclear explosion was an atmospheric test
over what is now White Sands New Mexico.
What I didn't realize until I looked it up was that it was only 3 weeks
prior to bombing Hiroshima. This proved to the entire world that the US had
a working Atom Bomb of devastating power. Japan should have seen this as a
warning. IMHO.

Regards,
Uncle Martin

> > Ah, no. I think we cheered when they surrendered. And also, the
bombing
> of
> > Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved a ton of lives on both sides if we had to
> > invade Japan. Don't forget, the US showed Japan on a remote island the
> Nuke
> > before this happened, and they would not surrender.

> That's news to me. As far as I know, we only detonated a test bomb in New
> Mexico. I was unaware that the Japanese ever had any kind of first hand
> demonstration, before Hiroshima. Of course after Hiroshima they didn't
> surrender. After Nagasaki, there was an attempted palace coup by those
who
> did not want to surrender. So I don't agree with your details, but it's
> clear the Japanese didn't want to surrender.

> > This is a whole different thing, apples and oranges.

> It's about as unprovoked an attack as you're going to get when a
superpower
> regularly interferes in the affairs of other nations. In world affairs we
> don't sit around peacefully harvesting flowers, but we also don't inflict
> (likely) 10,000 civilian deaths in an urban center. I don't remember even
> the Kosovo bombings, which I was opposed to, having anywhere near that
kind
> of body count.

> --
> Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
> Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

> People who make personal attacks are useless.
> I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Arkla** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:49:48

i got some words that come close for me. Emptyness.

> Thanks Joe. It's a horrible feeling, like a good friend has died.
Hopefully
> it will not happen in your country. Words can't express how I feel right
now
> about all of this.

> > My deepest condolences for the cowardly acts that have been committed
> > against your country and your citizens.

> > - a concerned Canadian

by **Robert Twee** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:48:14

> > I'm not sure about all the crystal-ball stuff (intersting though it is),
> but
> > there is now a definite, very real threat of WW3. No good can come of
> this.

> I dunno about that. The responsible party would have to have a defense
> treaty with someone, and there are places, such as Iraq, that are so
> irresponsible that their neighbors mignt not mind seeing them overrun by
the
> West. Iraq would be good because we know we can do something about it.
> Afghanistan would be awful, the USSR went bankrupt fighting over there.

I wouldn't look at it from that narrow a historical perspective. What we
could be looking at is a global terrorist/guerilla war, rather than a
conventional war. If this turns out to be the work of islamic militants then
you could have a situation that is more comparable to Vietnam than to WW1 or
WW2, just with more countries involved.

- Robert

by **Geoff Howla** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:53:27

And after theyre done subjugating everyone who has ever had any
relations with terrorism everyone will REALLY have no reason to
further despise the US.

Currently theres very little motivating force for attacking the US.
Its not holding any peoples hostage, its not bombing anyone, or
keeping other countries under its martial law. So the people who hate
the US do so from fairly disconnected "theyre helping some people we
hate, so we'll hate them too".

If the US _starts_ to invade and inhabit other countries, there will
be a lot more people pushed into acting against the US and these
things will just increase.

It probably took as few as 8 people to take those planes hostage
(onboard), think there will be a bit more than that if we move a whole
army into someones country and start actively oprressing them? Even
if its temporarily and for a reason, the people on the other side of
the gun are unlikely to see it that way.

-Geoff Howland
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:00:47

"Geoff Howland"
(snip)
. The list could go on and on....Cut off Terrorism at the head,
We are hated and despised already. We have little to lose.

Yes that seems to be our greatest evil. Supporting Israel.

Invade? No...punish militarily. Heavily.

Napalm.

dave henrie

by **Robert Twee** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:10:07

To be fair, it actually is. Those who do not understand Islam should check
the facts before jumping to conclusions. Unfortunatetly there are those who
twist Islam so support their own ends in the same way that there are those
that would twist Christianity, Judaism, etc. Aetheism is simple because
there is no word of god to corrupt in the first place.

- Robert

> At least I haven't seen a Muslim appologist get on the TV and claim the
> religion of Muhamed is one of peace. That usually happens when a Muslim
act
> of Terror occurs. I never beleived it in the past...and I certainly don't
> now.
> dave henrie

> > It is not religion that is the cause of these problems, its the people
who
> > thinks they know what God wants and use him as an excuse to do whatever
> they
> > want.

> > I seriously feel that religious leaders should make a stand of what is
> right
> > or wrong. then again, the spiritual leaders are usually the leaders of
> > terrorists cells :(

by **Robert Twee** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:26:28

I tried to look this up but it doesn't seem to be written by Nostradamus at
all, but by some guy called Neil Marshall. If the quote is real then can you
give the century and quatrain number?

- Robert

by **John Bod** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:40:58

I'm with you, Joe. I did 12 years with the Air National Guards, I'm
39 years old, and I have 9-month-old baby, but I'm mad as hell about
this.

FWIW, my father served in World War One, and then in 1942, he received
a draft notice at the ripe old age of 43.

Amazing parallels.

Sad day.

My first response may be anger, but I have been trying to divert my
energies into prayers. That's the best course of action at the
moment.

-- JB

>>me. The older guys at work have been telling me to get ready in case the draft
>>is reinstated and we go to war. Hopefully, it won't be necessary.

>The draft or the war? If there's a war after this, it seems the draft
>wouldn't be necessary. Hell, my first [emotional] reaction would be to
>go myself - and I'm a 39 year old with a young baby.

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:38:57

Agreed. But time after time...a religious extremist commits acts of
***. The cowardly Northern Irish throwing bombs at school children are
just as abhorrent.
God/Allah/Buddah doesn't seem to be in need of Bombs yet many supposed
devoted followers are ready providers.
dave henrie

by **John Bod** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:45:18

Afghanistan was the USSR's version of Vietnam -- they never declared
war.

This attack on the U.S. is an undeniable act of war.

Once we figure out who's responsible for this, I predict that the U.S.
and its allies will declare war on whatever country is granting
shelter to the responsible parties.

If we declare war, it won't be another Vietnam.

The U.S. has never lost a war.

-- JB

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:38:30 GMT, "Brandon J. Van Every"

>> I'm not sure about all the crystal-ball stuff (intersting though it is),
>but
>> there is now a definite, very real threat of WW3. No good can come of
>this.

>I dunno about that. The responsible party would have to have a defense
>treaty with someone, and there are places, such as Iraq, that are so
>irresponsible that their neighbors mignt not mind seeing them overrun by the
>West. Iraq would be good because we know we can do something about it.
>Afghanistan would be awful, the USSR went bankrupt fighting over there.

>--
>Cheers, www.3DProgrammer.com
>Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

>People who make personal attacks are useless.
>I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

by **Minh Truon** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:48:30

Anger will subside, the pain will continue for years, if not decade. I
don't think there will be an American "***lust", once the guilties are
made to face their crime.

by **Minh Truon** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:53:26

> > Yeah, its on tv. They were handed candy, told of the atrocity, and
cheered
> > like a bunch of pussies. And here I felt bad for the ***ers when the
jews
> > were pushing them around. They deserve what they get.

> I had concluded awhile ago that they're both ***s and they have to
solve
> their own problems. In such a situation, 3rd parties can only try to get
> both sides to talk peace. If they won't, then you just have to stand back
> and watch them kill each other.

It is so very hard to judge two groups of people without understanding. I'm
totally confused about why there is so much hatred in that region. I
certainly don't have an answer, but it's painful to watch the sufferings.

by **Eldre** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:52:06

writes:

Well, since you brought it up:
1. It's easy to say that God will have his vengeance, if you believe in that
sort of thing. Some of us don't.
2. If your God would allow something like this to happen to his people, that's
not a God *I* want anything to do with...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:52:06

>It is not religion that is the cause of these problems, its the people who
>thinks they know what God wants and use him as an excuse to do whatever they
>want.

If their God is so powerful, why does he need suicide bombers, etc? I can't
believe that such an omnipotent God would need some whacked-out nutcase to do
his dirty work...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Robert Twee** » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:59:26

> > To be fair, it actually is. Those who do not understand Islam should
check
> > the facts before jumping to conclusions. Unfortunatetly there are those
> who
> > twist Islam so support their own ends in the same way that there are
those
> > that would twist Christianity, Judaism, etc. Aetheism is simple because
> > there is no word of god to corrupt in the first place.

> > - Robert
> Agreed. But time after time...a religious extremist commits acts of
> ***. The cowardly Northern Irish throwing bombs at school children
are
> just as abhorrent.

Agreed, that was just pettiness taken to an unbelievable extreme. I
sometimes want to just tell all the religious types to grow up; there is no
santa clause or whatever. Unfortunately it's not that simple.

True, but I'm not entirely conveniced of the innocuousness of the "god of
abraham", who "smote" the egyptians, most of whom were just innocent
civilians like those caught up in it today. This is just another chapter in
the same story. And the god of mohammed (who is also the god of abraham)
smote the Americans?

That god does too much to encourage the dark side of human nature as far as
I am concerned, and I think a god should be above that. People are just
looking for excuses to kill each other, and these religions can too easily
be manipulated to give them one.

I don't think any act like this was ever carried out in the name of Buddah,
though. I could be wrong, but buddhism is the closest religion to aetheism,
so I'm a fairly big supporter.

- Robert

rec.autos.simulators

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