rec.autos.simulators

To my American friends

Quatori

To my American friends

by Quatori » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 18:06:16

In the swirling mists of history, on Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:39:28 GMT,



>> The Antichrist quickly annihilates three
>> Twenty-seven years of *** will last his war
>> The heretics dead, captive or exiled
>> ***y corpses, water red, covering the earth

>> I hope that's not what we're headed for, but the first line seems to hit
>it
>> dead on.  The attack came very quickly.  There were four planes, but only
>3
>> hit targets.

>Lots of patterns can match to lots of things.  Life comes in fragments, we
>must not be so quick to judge.

Further, the Pentagon was hardly annihilated. Attempting to match
prophecy to historical events is worse than useless.

-Quatoria
--
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that
faith does not prove anything.
       -- Friederich Nietzsche
Shameless Plug - Visit www.hardnews.org for even more of Q's unpaid ranting.

Geoff Howla

To my American friends

by Geoff Howla » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 18:33:01

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 07:26:41 GMT, "Brandon J. Van Every"


>But you're forgetting the lesson we've all learned: they're going to kill
>*EVERYONE*, including themselves.  It's a "better go out swingin'!"
>scenario.  What people were probably hoping as they were hijacked, was that
>the terrorists had some demands and would take the plane to somewhere that
>they could get those demands addressed.  They probably didn't figure they'd
>take the planes to the WTC and the Pentagon.

This just isnt in human nature to do.  People will always try to
assume the best instead of taking these kinds of actions.  There are
only a slim % who would do a rush deal, and there probably wouldnt be
any (or if so, not enough) to actually do this successfully.  Thats
where Id put my money in a bet at least.

Yeah, this does look like a possibility.  Which means in this case Id
lose the bet.  But though this may have been 1 in 4, I would bet that
there could have been 30 more flights and this would still be the only
one it happened in.  If thats what actually occurred.

I agree.  But, it will also increase military action most likely.
Which is why things need to be done carefully.  Not like us talking
about it will have any effect on that however...

I dont, nor do I say appease them.  Obviously the situation needs to
be dealt with, and really needed to be dealt with all along.  There
was just no support for it being done so.  But, it would be a mistake
to jump from doing nothing, to knee-jerking and releasing the bulls in
the china-shops.

Yup, and in the mean time a lot of innocent people who were just going
to work to support themselves will die.  If youre now uncomfortable to
work in a sky scraper, building thats hard to get out of, or fly in a
plane, theyve succeeded.  Terror accomplished.  Not like they were
trying to gain land holds or something.

-Geoff Howland
http://www.lupinegames.com/

Brandon J. Van Ever

To my American friends

by Brandon J. Van Ever » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:28:20




> > If such events happen in a short period of time, then we are at war, and
> >the enemy will be defeated.

> To assume that it's going to be that easy is *extremely* naive.

Did my statement contain anything about ease?  Make no mistake, the USA will
defeat any enemy that declares war upon it, no matter how arduous the task.

You have to ask whether you can accept a world where airplanes drop out of
the sky to kill you and ten thousand other people.  To put it in
perspective, that's like opening the newspaper and seeing that there were 30
bombings of American planes in 1 day.  How many times will you allow it to
happen before you take action?

--
Cheers,                         www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

Brandon J. Van Ever

To my American friends

by Brandon J. Van Ever » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:32:38


Nothing different.  If indeed it was Muslims, they just killed 10,000 of our
people.  Against such an enemy, why is one concerned about what they might
do next?  They've already done something beyond tolerance.

What's the single highest body count for any IRA attack ever?  I bet it's
nowhere near it.

--
Cheers,                         www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

Brandon J. Van Ever

To my American friends

by Brandon J. Van Ever » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:37:10





Henrie"

> > >God/Allah/Buddah doesn't seem to be in need of Bombs yet many supposed
> > >devoted followers are ready providers.

> > And bombers don't need God (IIRC, didn't McVeigh expressly profess his
> > aethism?)

> The big difference between religion and an individual nutter like McVeigh
is
> that religion can help you organise an army of nutters. That's a hell of a
> lot more dangerous than one guy.

McVeigh was not 1 guy, he had accomplices, and the nutters he can organize
with are the homegrown anti-Federalists.

Ok, how about for this one we will not hate, we will just eliminate the
threat.  I don't feel threatened by foreign civilians unless they're
shooting guns, in which case they're not civilians anymore.

--
Cheers,                         www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

Brandon J. Van Ever

To my American friends

by Brandon J. Van Ever » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:38:33


Can you value your own state-threatened family more than that of 10,000
Americans' families?  Doubtful.  I think we've seen ample evidence in Muslim
suicide attacks that they can do this sort of thing for ideology.

--
Cheers,                         www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

Brandon J. Van Ever

To my American friends

by Brandon J. Van Ever » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:52:01


Well, I would, knowing what I know now.  "Quick, is he Muslim or Hispanic?
If Hispanic we're ok, he probably just wants to unload a kilo in Colombia."
:-)  Only problem is they may have had more than knives and box cutters.
They may have had knives, box cutters, and a bomb they threatened to blow
everyone up with.  In which case, you're all dead, you're only choosing
*where* you're going to die.  You'd have to overhear them to know that you
were en route to WTC, or see it coming soon enough to do something about it.

I dunno, there might be more tough sonofa***es in the USA than you'd
think.

They can't take credit for that, I never liked skyscrapers to begin with!

--
Cheers,                         www.3DProgrammer.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

People who make personal attacks are useless.
I killfile them no matter who they are insulting.

John Fryat

To my American friends

by John Fryat » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:33:13




> > > this is a sad and tragic day for all. many hunderds, possibly
more, have
> > > died this day...

> > There were hundreds just on the 4 planes. The casualites will
likely be in
> > the tens of thousands.

> 20,000 were projected to be in the World Trade Center towers. 100+
were
> killed in the Pentagon.

> And crowds in Palestine cheered.

I was disgusted by that.

You are totally right.

John

Robert Twee

To my American friends

by Robert Twee » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:50:31







> > > If such events happen in a short period of time, then we are at war,
and
> > >the enemy will be defeated.

> > To assume that it's going to be that easy is *extremely* naive.

> Did my statement contain anything about ease?  Make no mistake, the USA
will
> defeat any enemy that declares war upon it, no matter how arduous the

task.

Your statement implied ease. This statement implies ease. What if you lose?
You're not acknowledging it as a possibility is overconfidence, which as
history has shown almost always leads to defeat. This is why I urge caution
and careful consideration of any retribution.

I'm not saying there should be no action, I'm just saying that America
should be very careful about what action it takes. Given the effect that
this has had on everyone, retaliation may not come with the best of
judgement. Also given that your overconfidence in America's military prowess
is farily prevalent among it's relatively insulated populus, an
ill-conceived military offensive is not outwith the bounds of imagination.

- Robert

Robert Twee

To my American friends

by Robert Twee » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:10:00





> > This is all probably very likely, but if the Muslims are driven to
> terrorism
> > now because they see themselves as oppressed then what will happen if
the
> US
> > actively targets them?

> Nothing different.  If indeed it was Muslims, they just killed 10,000 of
our
> people.  Against such an enemy, why is one concerned about what they might
> do next?  They've already done something beyond tolerance.

The point is that the Muslims invloved (assuming it was them) are a very
small percentage of Muslims worldwide. There are really a lot of Muslims in
the world but most of them are entirely peaceable. If an act by the western
world (or just the US) was perceived by some Muslims as an atrocity against
their race, then how many more might turn to extremism? Then instead of
having a small [albeit destrucitve] terrorist group to isolate and stop, you
have a large scale guerilla army, distributed throughout the globe and
prepared to die for the cause. It's like trying to put out a chip-pan fire
by throwing water on it.

No terrorist attack has ever come close to this and that's preceisely the
point. Take the NI situation, amplify it by a thousand times and then you
have an incling of the world environment your dealing with here.

- Robert

Gerry Qui

To my American friends

by Gerry Qui » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:31:12






>> >Another worrying thing is that the current president has been compared to
>"a
>> >monkey in a cowboy hat with his finger on the button".

>> Probably by the same people who would have no problem sympathising with
>> the dancing Palestinians.

>I think most people would sympathise with the American vistims and their
>families; not some jeering imbeciles in a distant country who probably don't
>even comprehend what's happened anyway. That is irrespective of anyone's
>estimate of the US president's intellectual capabilities.

Bush hardly got where he is today by acting like a monkey.  Perhaps you
should pay less heed to the bile of sore left-wingers and greens.  And
he has plenty of capable advisors around him.

- Show quoted text -

Sometimes it doesn't really matter.  Yesterday's event was not planned
to have good consequences, and one can hardly expect it to.  Appea***t
is not an option here, even if the alternative is tantamount to war.  
These people will find excuses anyway.

- Gerry Quinn

Gerry Qui

To my American friends

by Gerry Qui » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:34:56


>Problem is, many religions promise an eternity in heaven based on what
>you do here on earth, which means that sacrificing yourself for some
>random cause can actually be benefical for you. This mortal existance
>is just a test for the real deal.
>The only way I can imagine people being able to fly a plane into a
>building like that is that they think they'll be rewarded in some
>"afterlife". I'm not really imaginative, though.

Look at all the people who have starved themselves to death for any
number of non-religious causes.  A promised afterlife is not required.  
People just make a choice and stick with it all the way.

- Gerry Quinn

Minh Truon

To my American friends

by Minh Truon » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:40:00

It's still very hard to say who's "right"



Eldre

To my American friends

by Eldre » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 23:11:12



>> More than terrorists who crash our planes into our densely populated
>> buildings at will?

>It's the combination of both that's worrying. If the whole thing escalates
>and there are many more similar events in retaliation to whatever the
>American does next, then that could be far worse than what's happened so
>far.

So what do we do - nothing?  Then they've won...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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Eldre

To my American friends

by Eldre » Thu, 13 Sep 2001 23:11:12


writes:

These people(and others around the world) have been fighting each other for
GENERATIONS.  Does anyone *really* think you can end that without one side(or
both) being totally wiped out?

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.


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