rec.autos.simulators

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

Zonk

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Zonk » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00


>Richard, pushing the rules to the nth. degree has always existed but
>"cheating" really only became more frequent after the commercialisation of
>the sport, I'm afraid.  As the commercial interests became greater, so the
>elevl of good sportsmanship dropped.

>So from around the beginning of the 1970s onwards F1 began to decompose in
>that respect.

hehhe. This is utter tripe. Cheating existed and was prevalanet even before
the commercial days of F1. IO suggest you re-read an article on last years
Motor Sport...(looking for Vol no later....)

You can romantacise all you like bruce, but stick to the facts in hand...

Z.

Please remove my_pants when replying.

Zonk

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Zonk » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00




>>That would be the temper tantrum that i would expect of Ferrari. In which
>>case, F1 is better off without them.

>>Z.

>>Please remove my_pants when replying.

>I disagree.

>Formula 1 without Ferrari would no longer be Formula 1.

<snip>

Utter pants. Ferrari is a souless corporate. F1 without ferrari would be F1
without Marlboro. Sure, they've been around a bit and they've got history, but
all ferrari is in f1 is souless, pointless marketing.

Z.

Please remove my_pants when replying.

Marko Peri

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Marko Peri » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00


> Same for me.  Any team with a budget exceeding 200 million USD who can't
> afford to hire a few quality control personnel and use them properly is
> strictly amateur.  If you get a carbon fibre panel wrong by 10mm in the
> aerospace industry, you throw it in the bin.  With all the design work
> done on computers now, there is no way a proposed part should slip past a
> "virtual" template at the design stage, nor past a quality check after
> production.

     Look to NASA for an organisation with a budget even larger than
Ferrari where simple mistakes like a confusion between metric and
imperial units can occur. Mistakes can be made no matter how much money
you throw at quality control.

Bendito;

hamme..

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by hamme.. » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00



If you'd bother to read more about it, every team in F1 on record about
the issue states it's NO ADVANTAGE.

Are you ignorant?  Or just uninformed?

Hammer2k

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Meij

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Meij » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00

There's a tendancy for people to assume yesterday was better. My grandparents
do that a lot... "No crime, you could leave your doors open all day blah
blah" however it's never the truth.

Bruce is obviously paying too much attention to either books or his memory
and not enough to the facts.

M



Bruce Kennewel

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bruce Kennewel » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00

That's very true, John.....we can all live without any of the teams that
make up the current F1 circus, just as we can all live without other
long-standing traditions and institutions throughout the world.
What a forlorn place it would be. And what a terribly sad bunch would
populate it.

Toodles.
BK


  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----

Bruce Kennewel

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bruce Kennewel » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00

And not the first time in motor-racing history that something alluded to
PRIOR to a race has only been "officially" discovered AFTER the event.




> >...I also believe the FIA circus scrutinizers have an implicit obligation
> to share with any team the results of FIA scrutinization of that teams
> car.  I find it reprehensible the FIA needed McLaren to point out the
> problem for them :(  (if indeed that is the case, which I believe it
> is).

> Ross Brawn has been saying all along that the team cars, and
> specifically the barge boards, were scrutineered throughout the weekend
> at Malaysia, from Friday to Sunday. They're the same barge boards (or
> turning vanes) on the same cars since the cars were set up for the
> Luxembourg GP. Doesn't it seem a little odd, at the very least, that it
> wasn't until post-race scrutineering that the FIA tech rep found a
> "problem?" This is certainly not the first time such nonsense has taken
> place, as those who remember ex-FIA scrutineer Roland Bruynseraede (of
> Jabroc plank fame) will recollect.

> BB

  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----
Bruce Kennewel

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bruce Kennewel » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Dear Mr. Peteri,
No, I'm not peering through Ferrari-red coloured glasses and no, I'm not an
expert on aerodynamics.  My original belief was that McLaren had
protested....until I discovered that was not the case (McLaren were reported
to be threatening to protest the tyres used by Ferrari at their last pit
stop).

I don't, however, agree with your point(s) regarding slow car/fast car.
This is, after all, a race, and races are combinations of tactics and
strategy.  The only motor-racing these days that seems to rely on nothing
but speed on the track is drag racing.

Slowing down/speeding up is _NOT_ blocking: the following car and driver
combination simply needs to have (a) the horses to accelerate past the car
in front, (b) the brakes to dive under the car in front and (c) the
intestinal fortitude to take advantage of (a) and (b).

Cheerio.
BK




> > As for your mistaken assertion regarding one member of Ferrari being a
> > mobile chicane in order to allow the other an easier run, I seem to
recall
> > the situation being reveresd, where Irvine assisted Schumacher in at
least
> > one race. I also recalll Coulthard attempting to try it this year as
well.

> Salo assisted Irvine at Spa when he was asked by the team to hold back
> Ralf Schumacher (that really made Williams and Head lose their cool) but
> other than that, we haven't seen anyone employ these kind of tactics this
> season, that is, before Malaysia. Unsurprisingly, it was once again
> Ferrari.

> Schumacher admittedly drove a brilliant race, being able to control
> Hakkinen by fluctuating his speed, lifting in high speed corners and
> immediately accelerating away while MH couldn't afford to take a risk of
> being put out of race with Irvine in lead. MS was certainly *** in
> Malaysia, while the team's strategy was... um, less sporty. Not illegal
> though, like everyone knows. But Ferrari is hardly even a m***winner
> here.

> > My disappointment, Mr. Black, stems from the complete lack of
sportsmanship
> > that now epitomises F1.  This latest example, where a protest is lodged
over
> > 10mm of carbon fibre...

> No protest. The officials discovered a rule infringement. Don't blame Mc
> for that. Unless you're one of *** theorists wearing red shades.
> I suppose we'll always have to suffer from some lack of sportsmanship
> when big buckz are in the picture. Just remember that you're talking
> about a quality which Ferrari itself is not very famous of.

> > Ten millimetres of carbon fibre did not beat McLaren.

> I can see your frustration but are you REALLY such an expert in F1
> aerodynamics that you can tell what kind of effect those modified barge
> boards actually had. For sure their shape was based on wind tunnel
> testing and not some fractal landscape generator.

> From formula1.com:

> Ferrari may have claimed that on this section of the car even a
> discrepancy of 10mm on a deflector would have no performance enhancing
> effect but according to Dr. Kevin Garry of the Cranfield Institute in the
> UK, where many teams come to develop their aerodynamic packages at it's
> College of Aeronautics, even the smallest of changes can have very
> pronounced effects:

> "There can be huge aero effects from something as small as a 1 or 2
> millimetre discrepancy. Small changes can severely effect the separation
> of air downstream of the part and it may well induce a spiralling of the
> airflow known as vortex which can have profound implications for the
> airflow over the bodywork behind the part in question".

  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.racesimcentral.net/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----
Bruce Kennewel

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bruce Kennewel » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00

"Flavour Rigolletto" I think I referred to him in a little e-zine I once
worked with!! :o)




> > Richard, pushing the rules to the nth. degree has always existed but
> > "cheating" really only became more frequent after the commercialisation
of
> > the sport, I'm afraid.  As the commercial interests became greater, so
the
> > elevl of good sportsmanship dropped.

> > So from around the beginning of the 1970s onwards F1 began to decompose
in
> > that respect.

> Can you say "Flavio Briatore"? That about sums F1 up for me now. Yea, I
know he's
> "out", but honestly......
> Yuk!!!!!!!!!
> :-)

> Matt

> --
> ----------------------
> The GPL Preservation Society
> http://www.gpl.netti.nu
> http://KOTR.de/gpl

> **GPLEA Member**

  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----
Bruce Kennewel

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bruce Kennewel » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00

The reason behind the enormous width of the track is that it's Kuala
Lumpur's second major airport for 360 days of the year.
The 747s land on the two straights and the smaller aircraft use what's left.


  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----

Bruce Kennewel

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bruce Kennewel » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Sorta confirms this old blokes supposition....that contemporary F1 is not,
by any stretch of the imagination, really "Formula One".
The real thing died 20 years ago.  The abomination that currently passes for
it is simply a pale imitation.






> >>That would be the temper tantrum that i would expect of Ferrari. In
which
> >>case, F1 is better off without them.

> >>Z.

> >>Please remove my_pants when replying.

> >I disagree.

> >Formula 1 without Ferrari would no longer be Formula 1.

> <snip>

> Utter pants. Ferrari is a souless corporate. F1 without ferrari would be
F1
> without Marlboro. Sure, they've been around a bit and they've got history,
but
> all ferrari is in f1 is souless, pointless marketing.

> Z.

> Please remove my_pants when replying.

  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----
Bruce Kennewel

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bruce Kennewel » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00

By all means...please advise the issue number.
Then please go back to my post and have a look at the way I referred to
cheating "becoming _MORE FREQUENT_"....etc.

I didn't say that's when it _STARTED_!!!




> >Richard, pushing the rules to the nth. degree has always existed but
> >"cheating" really only became more frequent after the commercialisation
of
> >the sport, I'm afraid.  As the commercial interests became greater, so
the
> >elevl of good sportsmanship dropped.

> >So from around the beginning of the 1970s onwards F1 began to decompose
in
> >that respect.

> hehhe. This is utter tripe. Cheating existed and was prevalanet even
before
> the commercial days of F1. IO suggest you re-read an article on last years
> Motor Sport...(looking for Vol no later....)

> You can romantacise all you like bruce, but stick to the facts in hand...

> Z.

> Please remove my_pants when replying.

  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----
Bruce Kennewel

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bruce Kennewel » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Damned right and certainly the definitive reason to ban NASA from any
further space shots.

Let Ecclestone organise an alternative.



> > Same for me.  Any team with a budget exceeding 200 million USD who can't
> > afford to hire a few quality control personnel and use them properly is
> > strictly amateur.  If you get a carbon fibre panel wrong by 10mm in the
> > aerospace industry, you throw it in the bin.  With all the design work
> > done on computers now, there is no way a proposed part should slip past
a
> > "virtual" template at the design stage, nor past a quality check after
> > production.

>      Look to NASA for an organisation with a budget even larger than
> Ferrari where simple mistakes like a confusion between metric and
> imperial units can occur. Mistakes can be made no matter how much money
> you throw at quality control.

> Bendito;

  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----
Bruce Kennewel

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bruce Kennewel » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00

HAHAHA!
Let's see what _YOU_ romanticise about in another 20 - 30 years, Mr. Meiji!!
"The best years of F1 were the [insert decade at the beginning of which you
were really grabbed by F1].........."

We all do it because it is invariably directly associated with our mid-***s
through late twenties, early thirties....certainly before permanent
partnerships/families are formed.  They are always the times where our
recollections are always "good".

Every generation has done it and will do it and yours, my smug friend, will
be _EXACTLY_ the same!

And you know what is the best thing about this?  Knowing that I'm 110%
right!!!  LOL! :o)

BK

> There's a tendancy for people to assume yesterday was better. My
grandparents
> do that a lot... "No crime, you could leave your doors open all day blah
> blah" however it's never the truth.

> Bruce is obviously paying too much attention to either books or his memory
> and not enough to the facts.

> M



> >hehhe. This is utter tripe. Cheating existed and was prevalanet even
before
> >the commercial days of F1. IO suggest you re-read an article on last
years
> >Motor Sport...(looking for Vol no later....)

> >You can romantacise all you like bruce, but stick to the facts in hand...

> >Z.

  -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.racesimcentral.net/       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including  Dedicated  Binaries Servers ==-----
hamme..

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by hamme.. » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00


Hey Z... tell us about your childhood... we can help you :)

Hammer2k

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.


rec.autos.simulators is a usenet newsgroup formed in December, 1993. As this group was always unmoderated there may be some spam or off topic articles included. Some links do point back to racesimcentral.net as we could not validate the original address. Please report any pages that you believe warrant deletion from this archive (include the link in your email). RaceSimCentral.net is in no way responsible and does not endorse any of the content herein.