rec.autos.simulators

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

Bruce Kennewel

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Well, FIAT have owned Ferrari for many years and Lotus are as dead as the
parrot.

BK




> >Now let's be fair and honest, Mr. Z.
> >ALL.....repeat, ALL the teams that are entered in F1 today are either
> >soulless corporations in their own right or are backed by same.

> >BK

> I've never implied otherwise. Some insist on romantising Fiat and (who
own's
> Lotus these days?) as some kind of romantic notion....

> Not me.

> Z.

> Please remove my_pants when replying.

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Eldre

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Eldre » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00




>> Barton

>> Presumably the Germans have placed their towells around the sauna before
>you
>> wake up?

>It was waking up wearing nothing but a pickelhaube...

Should I even ASK what a pickelhaube is...?
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Go Green!!!  MSU (At least we beat Univ. of Michigan...)
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://gpl.gamestats.com/vroc

If all the world's a stage, where is the audience sitting?
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Joao Sil

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Joao Sil » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00



>I have been happier about the state of F1 this year than over the last
>couple of years. I think it's actually getting better :-)

>Lawrence

I agree with you, this season despite the wacky happenings that have gone on
has been quite exciting and far from the boring McLaren dominated runaway
season I expected when I saw Schumacher go flying off into that tire wall.

Let's hope next season is even better and that we can continue to have
more than two teams competing for the championship, it's been nice to see
Jordan and Stewart up there on the podiums, maybe next year will be Jordan's
year and we can have a three way fight, I certainly hope so and look forward
to it, and I see the possibility of Ralf getting some good results if Williams
can get him a competitive ride and the BMWs don't detonate too often <G>

Suzuka (no matter which way the appeal goes) has been tainted for me, and I
am already looking forward to next year, I think this year's championship
will always have a big star next to it the way the '94 championship always
does for me when someone mentions it.

Seeyas on the track.

--John (Joao) Silva

GPL Ferrari driver.
Powerslide Racing Team  - GMSS  League F1 division.
Rossi Razzi Racing Team - IGPLC League F2 division.

Meij

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Meij » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Really? I think you need to look at the entire paragraph rather than one
sentence. I'm sure we can all take on part out of context and make a point.

For someone who likes to be percieved as one of the more mature members of
ras you're acting like a News of the World journalist more and more.

M


Mark Seer

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Mark Seer » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00

And there are random checks at pre race scrutineering?

Mark

> It would have been found if Ferrari had scored points!. Checks on
> non-scoring cars are RANDOM, not mandatory.



> > Well maybe the FIA should be thinking about getting their own house in
> order
> > before standing in judgement. If the Stewards had done their job
> correctly
> > at the two previous races, this "cheat" bargeboard would have been
> > discovered at a meeting where ***all points were scored by Erve.

> > I'm damned sure that Brawn would have had things sorted for this race
> where
> > it really mattered.

Bruce Kennewel

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Certainly nothing that bears any resemblance to a sport.



> > >Now let's be fair and honest, Mr. Z.
> > >ALL.....repeat, ALL the teams that are entered in F1 today are either
> > >soulless corporations in their own right or are backed by same.

> > >BK

> > I've never implied otherwise. Some insist on romantising Fiat and (who
own's
> > Lotus these days?) as some kind of romantic notion....

> Uhm, take away the myth and history from F1 and what do you have left ?

> The IRL ?

> > Not me.

> Guess not......

> --

> Beers and cheers
> (uncle) Goy

> "Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
> "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

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Bruce Kennewel

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00

(The saga is continued below!!!).......




> > (snip)
> > It all started innocently enough with a backyard sauna...
> > (unsnip)
> > There I was, 250 pounds of sweating pork-chops and sucking on a Schlitz,
> > when the pinewood door creaked on its hinges, the steam parted as the
cold
> > desert air rushed in and there _she_ stood........

> In nothing but a flimsy burnoose and a pickelhaube...and then it struck
> me (THUD!)...what a sap she had!

........and what a sap I was for believing her when she had told me, the
previous night under the heaving softness of her goose-down doona, that it
was I that she had the hots for and _not_ Zebediah, the club-footed dwarfish
henchman of Doctor Ng, the maniacal Vietnamese warlord with offices in New
York, Paris, London and Berlin.

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Bruce Kennewel

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bruce Kennewel » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00

I don't "like to be perceived" as anything, squire.  What impression another
draws from my scribbles here is entirely up to them.
However, I did read your entire paragraph and I've just re-read it to ensure
that I didn't miss anything regarding your statement on romanticising.  The
sentence is a statement in itself and that's all I was commenting on.
Simple.


> Really? I think you need to look at the entire paragraph rather than one
> sentence. I'm sure we can all take on part out of context and make a
point.

> For someone who likes to be percieved as one of the more mature members of
> ras you're acting like a News of the World journalist more and more.

> M


> >In one sentence you have explained all.
> >Thanks, Meiji.

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Goy Larse

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Goy Larse » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00


> (The saga is continued below!!!).......




> > > (snip)
> > > It all started innocently enough with a backyard sauna...
> > > (unsnip)
> > > There I was, 250 pounds of sweating pork-chops and sucking on a Schlitz,
> > > when the pinewood door creaked on its hinges, the steam parted as the
> cold
> > > desert air rushed in and there _she_ stood........

> > In nothing but a flimsy burnoose and a pickelhaube...and then it struck
> > me (THUD!)...what a sap she had!

> ........and what a sap I was for believing her when she had told me, the
> previous night under the heaving softness of her goose-down doona, that it
> was I that she had the hots for and _not_ Zebediah, the club-footed dwarfish
> henchman of Doctor Ng, the maniacal Vietnamese warlord with offices in New
> York, Paris, London and Berlin.

You guys scare me.................

--

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"Team Mirage" http://www.teammirage.com/
"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

Barton Spencer Brow

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Barton Spencer Brow » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00


> Should I even ASK what a pickelhaube is...?

Ja, ja! A pickelhaube is the WWI helmet worn (originally, I guess) by
Prussian officers -- it's the one with the big spike on top -- very snazzy...

BB

Barton Spencer Brow

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Barton Spencer Brow » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Gad! Do you know how long we could keep this up?

BB


> (The saga is continued below!!!).......

Barton Spencer Brow

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Barton Spencer Brow » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00

The manufactured drama continues. To understand the full odiferousness
of these stories you must first understand that Michael Schumacher is
Jean Todt's "Golden Boy," and that Todt rabidly and publicly dislikes
Eddie Irvine, perhaps to the point where he would allow Ferrari to lose
both Championships rather than have Irvine be the first to win the
titles for Ferrari in 20 years. The "where's the missing wheel?" pitstop
fiasco has for some weeks been rumored to have been Jean Todt's way of
keeping Irvine away from a firm grasp on the Championship, Todt at that
time believing that a newly-fit Schumacher would make it back in time to
wrestle his points lead back. Read on, if you dare -- or care:

From Autosport 10/20/1999:

<<Ferrari Chief's Future In Balance

Ferrari chief Jean Todt is facing the sack if the team fails to win its
appeal against disqualification from the Malaysian Grand Prix, according
to press reports.

The Italian team will learn on Friday whether Eddie Irvine will be
reinstated as winner of last Sunday's race.

Both Irvine and second placed Michael Schumacher were stripped of their
points after scrutineers found an airflow board to be a centimetre too
small.

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo had backed Todt, despite his
offers to resign after the Kuala Lumpar debacle.

However, English newspaper reports now state that Todt's position could
be in jeopardy if the appeal fails.

According to The Sun, a source said, 'Luca feels betrayed by people to
whom he has given money, prestige and faith in their abilities.

'That part went unnoticed in the factory, in wind-tunnel checks and
during car assembly. It's incredible.'

Ferrari is claiming the part did not cause any improvement in the cars' handling.>>

From * October 21 '99 * ::: T H E W E E K L Y D A I L Y F 1 N E W S :

<<October 21 1999 * 07:46 AM, GMT 1 // Enough is enough!
by Paul Kelly

FRIDAY is D Day for Formula One. The farce has gone on long enough and
finally the REAL powers behind the sport are about to place a wake-up
call to the FIA. Despite all the cash poured in by constructors and
sponsors, without spectators and TV viewers, the sport can't get off the
grid. If the FIA insist on turning down the Ferrari appeal then the fans
they have won over this year will desert the sport in droves.

As things stand, even if Ferrari decide to race (which of course they
will) will anyone bother to watch? Even I'M undecided! Another terribly
unfair consequence of all this is Michael not getting the praise he
deserves. In all the bickering, finger-pointing and recriminations, the
drive of the year has been all but forgotten about. We know now that he
WAS sulking but what a way to shut his critics up. "If Eddie's behind me
at the end, of course, I'll let him pass," ....we all fell for that. He
did exactly what he
should have done (unselfishly) from the beginning and let Irvine
through.

The perfect team race. Flavio Briatore cut through all the bull and put
everything in perspective: "McLaren knew about the board since Germany
but waited until it suited them to play their cards. There are no
secrets in the pit lane - we would have done the same at Benneton." So,
Ron Dennis can whinge all he wants. Nobody, least of all Mika Hakkinen,
wants to win the championship this way.

All the teams have their "disqualification" stories. Johnny Herbert had
the same problem in '95 but in his case it was 150cm over...not TEN! OK,
so rules are rules...but stupid rules are still stupid and should be
changed. If there was no noticeable advantage (remember Germany? Didn't
hear Dennis "Dropping a dime" on Ferrari then) then at worst, the team
should be fined and lose their constructors' points but drivers can't
honestly be held responsible for whatever "hidden agenda" Monsieur Todt
may have in his
partisan little head.

At least Eddie didn't win the title for Ferrari, HIS boy has next year
to do that...oh yeah, Jean....very clever!!! Even if the ***
theory is off the planet, he should be fired. Three wheels do not a
racing car make!!! Even the most ardent F1 fans sometimes don't bother
with the Cart series (except to see the next Jacques) but Sunday's race
(except for the yellow flags again) was a lesson for the Paris Fat Cats.

The street course was extremely tight but pole-setter Dario Franchitti
lead from go and might have been caught by Drivers Championship leader
and rival Montoya, until he made his only mistake all season and hit a
tyre wall. Quite a few drivers were black flagged but the penalty
decisions were made straight away and didn't have to wait for rival
teams to lodge protests. Now the title goes to the last race - and the
way things are going - it may well be more exciting than its posh
cousin. [And THIS from a Brit!--BB]>>

Now let me add MY 200 cents: Everybody thinks Ecclestone's Evil Empire
is invulnerable -- but it is NOT: it's built entirely upon the good will
and interest of television audiences worldwide. In the two days
following the asininity at Malaysia, the FIA, McLaren International, and
Ferrari websites were simply besieged -- it was impossible to log on.
Fans are disgusted, as well they might be. This new evidence of Ron
Dennis' stupefyingly stupid skullduggery and Jean Todt's Pyrrhic
favoritism makes great yellow journalism, but bad -- really BAD --
sport. The only people who'll come out of this NOT smelling like a
charnel house will be the drivers, who have acted professionally, while
their masters have allowed greed, hubris, and spite to make
highly-public fools of themselves.

It cannot escape Ecclestone that he has backed himself into a pretty
unpleasant corner: while the EU is actively fighting to dismember his
***hold on the Holy Grail of TV rights for F1 motorcycles and cars,
his "Team Bosses" -- as official Supremo of FOCA, the Teams can only be
thought of as "his" -- are playing at truly Machiavellian internecine
warfare, to the delight of the motoring press, which uniformly despises
-- with good reason, by *their* lights -- Ecclestone and the Empire he
has built: more importantly, the Empire he has most definitely NOT
shared, and whose playing field he alone has defined, to the obvious
discomfiture of many who would stand to profit by his sharing.

It also cannot have escaped Ecclestone's notice that the largest
consumer nation in the world, the United States, is not exactly weeping
in desperation that it has been out of the F1 loop for many years.
NASCAR, with its give-and-take of rules and remuneration among the
sanctioning body, the sponsors, and the teams, makes tons of money that
never once so much as even touches Bernie's fingers in passing. That
alone must be gall and wormwood. Add the fact that most American
motorsports enthusiasts don't know and/or don't care who Ecclestone is,
and that must be quite a blow to the Napoleon-Complex Ego that is
Bernard Ecclestone, Esq. Such a blow, in fact, that he has stooped to
dealing with the village idiot of American Motorsports, Tony George, in
building a ridiculous Mickey-Mouse venue within the hallowed confines of
Indianapolis Motor Speedway (ironically enough, itself kept from
extinction only by the recent addition of a wildly-popular NASCAR race
-- the IRL could never keep the joint open by itself) to present the
USGP2000. Somehow, the USGP2000 ballyhoo fizzles like post-podium Mo?t
when you look at the circuit plan: it makes the late, unlamented
Meadowlands and Caesar's Palace tracks look like Spa by comparison.

Elsewhere in the US, entrepreneurs like Danny Panoz are forming
alliances -- often with non-Ecclestone-aligned European stalwarts like
the ACO -- to fill the gaping void left in U.S. professional-series
racing by the chronic navel-contemplation of the SCCA and the commercial
implosion of IMSA. CART, unfortunately (or maybe fortunately,
considering the level the IRL has rapidly sunk to) fragmented from IRL
by Tony George's Ecclestonian Ego, continues to show the Europeans what
capital-R Racing is all about, and independent GT and Touring Car series
in Europe -- owing nothing to Bernie -- do likewise. F1 *used* to be the
pinnacle of the sport; now it's just the pinnacle of extremely
high-dollar soap-opera.

Friday, October 22, 1999, could well be far more than a simple decision
about 10cm of barge board -- no matter which way the decision goes, this
whole seamy episode has --again -- exposed the noisome, putrescent white
underbelly of Formula Ecclestone, and it has NOT been an appealing
(pardon teh pun) sight: how many people will be permanently turned off
by the *** end of the 1999 season remains to be seen, but I don't
think F1 will come out the other end of this weekend, or week, or
however long they hem and haw, without major damage to its
already-rancid prestige.

Bart Brown

Bob Curti

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Bob Curti » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00


> The manufactured drama continues.. ....

Well said, Bart.

Bob Curtin
Worcester Area Strategy & Tactics Exchange
http://www.tiac.net/users/ten10ths/
"If God had intended men to join the Army he would have given us green, baggy skin"

Tony Rickar

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by Tony Rickar » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Barton Spencer Brown wrote and wrote and then wrote some more...

Very well put Barton - excellent post IMHO

As for "unfair consequence of all this is Michael not getting the praise he
deserves" - not sure about this.

I think Michael got heaps of praise & proved to the public at large he can
be a team player - something that was under scrutiny.

The cynical side of me though sees Michael proving he can do his utmost to
help his team mate win the Championship - but the Championship is still open
for Michael to bring back to Ferrari after all these years and be the
complete "Golden Boy". It all seems too perfect - I wonder what his secret
desires are for the outcome tomorrow?

Tony

David Ewin

OT: Ferrari Disqualified!

by David Ewin » Fri, 22 Oct 1999 04:00:00


> The manufactured drama continues. To understand the full odiferousness
> of these stories you must first understand that Michael Schumacher is
> Jean Todt's "Golden Boy," and that Todt rabidly and publicly dislikes
> Eddie Irvine, perhaps to the point where he would allow Ferrari to lose
> both Championships rather than have Irvine be the first to win the
> titles for Ferrari in 20 years. The "where's the missing wheel?" pitstop
> fiasco has for some weeks been rumored to have been Jean Todt's way of
> keeping Irvine away from a firm grasp on the Championship, Todt at that
> time believing that a newly-fit Schumacher would make it back in time to
> wrestle his points lead back. Read on, if you dare -- or care:

Jean Todt's preference for Schumacher over Irvine is certainly true, but I seriously
doubt that he would sabotage Irvine in this manner.  The missing tire pitstop was just
a result of Salo making an unexpected stop when Irvine's tires were already set out
for him.  When Salo came in, they had to quickly discard Irvine's tires and get
Salo's, and one of Irvine's tires was misplaced in the confusion.

Also, the missing wheel fiasco was in the previous race (at Nurburgring).  Schumacher
was already mathematically eliminated and had no chance of "wrestling his points lead
back".

Seeing as how Todt could very well lose his job over all this, it makes no sense to me
that he would have any part in this.

Dave

*****************************************************
David A. Ewing

*****************************************************


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