rec.autos.simulators

Of course not, since the statement was made by me and Coulthard made
no comment on the incident whatsoever (he naturally took objection to
being slandered of course). Prior to the race he commented that with
the way Ferrari had acted in Sepang he may be forced to drive in a way
that he disliked, that was it.

It is then pretty hypocritical of Schumacher, the man with the worst
record in F1, to come out and accuse someone else of trying to kill
him. Perhaps had Villeneuve, Frentzen or Hill been at the conference
we may have heard a snort of derision. To then hide behind that as a
reason for being "unable" to help Eddie is pathetic.

Cheers!
John

Of course it is a part of the sport that you complain, since any
sanctions against your opponent (or even shift in public opinion) will
swing the advantage your way in future. The trouble is, Schumi really
seems to believe it.

He needs someone to keep him "under control", as Mansell did to Senna,
and Senna did to Schumacher. I still remember the cameras on
Schumacher in the pits after he had tried to muscle his way past Senna
in 1993 and had the door slammed on him in no uncertain terms - "It's
not fair, it's not fair".

Different tune these days - Damon has to let him by despite fighting
for position?! Why, because he screwed the start and is losing the
Championship? The words are twisted to suit the situation and then
forgotten - no integrity, no consistency, just pure competitive
aggression. Nothing wrong with that as long as it is seen for what it
is.

Cheers!
John

Not at all. I am simply saying that he has no right to complain
about something that people do to him. After all he didn't punt
JV, he attempted it and spun himself out of the race and
championship. I certainly never saw DC do anything close
to that this year except to his teammate (and I don't believe
it was with the purpose of crashing him out).

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Absolutely. Did DC violate some F1 rule during the last race?
I would imagine it had more to do with team tactics than any-
thing else.

All of which is ok unless it happens to schumacher apparently.

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

We *already* knew that Schumacher was capable of unsportsman-like
conduct from his attempt at ramming Jacques.

I used to respect Coulthart for his sportsmanship (i.e. letting Mika by in
Australia and all) but his conduct in Suzuka this weekend just showed
Coulthart can also behave unsporstman-like on top of being mistake
prone.

Again just because Schumacher can be a jerk doesn't mean we aren't
disappointed when other drivers bring themselves down to his level,
especially when a particular driver is one known to complain about
backmarkers not allowing him to lap them in the past.

Seeyas on the track.

--John (Joao) Silva

GPL Ferrari driver.
Powerslide Racing Team  - GMSS  League F1 division.
Rossi Razzi Racing Team - IGPLC League F2 division.

You are quite right. I would not like or tolerate it. I suspect that you and
I hold similar values in respect to honourable conduct.

This was the lack of articulation to which I previously referred. I never
meant that it was ok by me. What I meant to convey in a word was that it is
generally acknowledged, if not entirely accepted by the teams, drivers,
sponsors and partisan fans (when it suits), that winning at all cost is the
only thing that matters in this day and age. It is a sad state of affairs
but a sign of the times. I hope this now makes sense to you when put it into
context within the original post.

Regards

MS

Yes, but it was still MS choice not to abide by the rules

I sort of agree, it doesn't make it "right" for everyone else to do the
same, but to see that hypocrit MS sitting there and accusing others of
not "playing by the rules", when he himself is the biggest offender of
them all, it's just so comical to me.........

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

You may be in the minority, but I'll gladly join you there.

Playing mindgames with Hill requires VERY LITTLE MIND.  Damon Hill is the most
overrated driver in recent memory and I for one am glad to see him finished.
One less crybaby in the mold of Mario/Michael Andretti.

Don McCorkle

Which means we should just let him keep right on going? How about
three wrongs? Four? Five? Fact is that with a gutless FIA more
interested in money than sport the only thing that will keep things in
check are other drivers, as Mansell did to Senna, and Senna did to
Schumacher.

He's made no more errors than average, and less than most. It's simply
that since he's at the front a lot these things are obvious.Look at
how many times his car broke down this year, and what position it was
in when it did so....

Hardly the same situation...

Cheers!
John

  Rubbish Mark - you wouldn't like someone doing that to you in online
*** and then saying "Oh - someone did something similar to me the
other day - if it's on the outer margins of the page of the rulebook
it's OK"

--
Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
    Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
      Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
    www:  http://www.racesimcentral.net/

So we agree that Schumacher should have been severely penalized for
that. He lost all respect many of us had for him as a driver even the
fans who still believed he might have been innocent in Australia '94 could
not deny Schumacher's despicable win-at-any-cost attitude in Jerez '97.

While I still think he is a great talent on the track, I have no respect
for him as a true racer or gentleman. Not sure that he cares what we think
but his Championships in the past (or future) will always have a big asterisk
in my book for what a jerk he was. Senna and Prost are the same, in my book
how you win does matter, and that's a big reason I've been a big Mika and
Jacques fan even though I cheer for Ferrari too.

Again that was not so much a criticism of Coulthart's errors as my
disappointment that even when he was making errors I always felt at
least he was a classy guy (like Mika), this put the McLaren drivers
above Schumacher and Irvine who run off at the mouth and do anything
to win, but Coulthart's tactics last Sunday brought himself down to
Schumacher's jerk level and for no great reason, Schumacher was not
even a big threat to Mika with that 7 second lead.

I disagree, even before Schumacher whined about Coulthart in the post race
interview I had already commented about what poor behaviour Coulthart
had shown, just because Schumacher whined about it and Schumacher really
is not one who is above doing that sort of thing, doesn't change the fact
that Coulthart disappointed many of us.

Oh well, I think Suzuka turned out for the best overall. Although I wanted
Ferrari to win the championship this year, the whole Sepang cheating/appeal
left a very sour taste in my mouth. I'm very glad that Mika put in a
great performance, and won the championship in such great form in the last
race, very much making the politics of team managers and money grubbing
organizers a non issue. My hat is off to Mika for an awesome performance
under tremendous pressure and for being able to do this in a classy manner
without resorting to any underhanded tactics.

BTW great thread, a bit OFF TOPIC but I think the discussion of classy racing
behaviour totally applies the same to online racing behaviour on VROC so
not totally OFF TOPIC :-)

Seeyas on the track.

--John (Joao) Silva

GPL Ferrari driver.
Powerslide Racing Team  - GMSS  League F1 division.
Rossi Razzi Racing Team - IGPLC League F2 division.

(DK)

Just wondering..........

And as for who is the most overrated driver in F1 in recent years, I'll
be more than happy to discuss that too

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

Hmmm, but if someone did that to you continually and it WAS on the
outer fringes of the rulebook, what recourse would you have other than
to respond in kind and demonstrate that you wouldn't accept that kind
of treatment?

It's not question of "liking it", it's what is necessary if you want
to have a chance in F1 today - you can't be pushed around.

Cheers!
John

Um... Correct me if I'm wrong but Schumacher DID do a stop and go on the
last lap.

--
Sean Higgins

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