>Who was it that said sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?
Cheers!
John
Cheers!
John
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> >Well that settles it. I would never think of not watching the race. So
> >I guess you are more *** about F1 than I am :-)
> Perhaps not - I cracked, and watched Mika kick butt. Nice to see
> Ferrari get some of their own treatment dished out for a change,
> although a sizable whiff that Michael wasn't all THAT committed to any
> cause other than constructor's championship, and who can blame him.
> Irv really should learn that opening one's mouth should be carefully
> considered prior to doing so...
> Cheers!
> John
Remco.
Greg - this is your misunderstanding I'm afraid. Schumacher
was highlighting the difference between slowing someone up
while you are "racing with them". E.g. they are trying to overtake
you for position and you are slowing them up to help a team-mate.
This was the situation with Hakkinen in Malaysia - they were
"racing for position" and schumacher was holding him up.
Most people consider this an acceptable part of the team sport that
is Formula One.
What Schumacher was complaining about was slowing someone down while
they are trying to lap you. This is, while within the rules (for a few
corners anyway) unsporting in the view of most people. (Whichever team
does it - some people on this group have suggested that Salo was doing
the same to Ralf Schumacher in Spa - if he was then I missed it but it's
a similarly bad offence).
--
Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving
Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html
Big difference. Schumacher was holding up Hakkinen while they were fighting
for position on the same lap, which is certainly his right. Coulthard was
being lapped by Schumacher and closed the door on him a couple of times
after being shown the blue flag. Schumacher made this distinction very
clear in his comments. Coulthard's post race comments that he couldn't
control his car well enough to let Schumacher by were disingenuous at best.
Perhaps a valid m***argument, but not much of a legal one.
More importantly - R.I.P. Greg Moore.
Dave
--
*****************************************************
David A. Ewing
*****************************************************
Of course nobody is entitled to do such a stupid manoeuvre but Schumacher
cannot have it both ways. He spends a whole race holding up Hakkinen and
then ***es about DC doing the same thing in Japan. His lame reasoning for
***ing is that DC was being lapped. Maybe he should have read the rules
about how many blue flags the lapped driver can pass before conceding. In
both races the same thing happened. The team mates of championship
contenders did all within their power to impede the progress of the rival
contender, both acting within the rules. Forget honourable actions. They
went out the window years ago. As long as it's in the rulebook, or even on
the outer margins of the page it's ok these days!
If the schu does something wrong, he has the fantastic ability of justifying
his actions in his own mind words. If he is on the receiving end of similar
treatment (equally unjustified as the case may be), he thinks he has the god
given right to crucify the offending party. Schumacher may be the best of
his generation but he is also the biggest hypocrite sitting on the grid!
MS
I think the incredulity comes from the fact that Schumacher is
complaining about someone being unsportsmanlike yet within the rules,
whereas Michael himself tends toward unsportsmanlike behaviour well
outside of the rules.
In this case the pot is many shades blacker than the kettle.
Cheers!
John
:> What Schumacher was complaining about was slowing someone down while
:>they are trying to lap you. This is, while within the rules (for a few
:>corners anyway) unsporting in the view of most people. (Whichever team
:>does it - some people on this group have suggested that Salo was doing
:>the same to Ralf Schumacher in Spa - if he was then I missed it but it's
:>a similarly bad offence).
: I think the incredulity comes from the fact that Schumacher is
: complaining about someone being unsportsmanlike yet within the rules,
: whereas Michael himself tends toward unsportsmanlike behaviour well
: outside of the rules.
: In this case the pot is many shades blacker than the kettle.
Very much not the point whatsoever. Even if I did agree with your
statement about Schumi (which I don't entirely) that is no excuse for
unsportsman like behaviour to him. That's definitely playground "well
he started it" mentality.
--
Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving
Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html
> Greg - this is your misunderstanding I'm afraid. Schumacher
> was highlighting the difference between slowing someone up
> while you are "racing with them". E.g. they are trying to overtake
IMHO purposely holding him up is not "racing", it is being and
***.
Yep they sure do. Except (apparently) when someone does it to
Schumacher.
Yes he was. Maybe he should also complain about the time he
tried to take Jaques V, out a few years ago. IMHO he has nothing
to complain about.
Like I said, people only seem to complain when it happens to
Schumacher :-)
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So even if he did similar things in the past, he should not have it
done to him? Is that what you are actually saying?
Wow...
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Yes I know. I thought it was unbelievable.
best.
I haven't seen these comments yet, and obviously this would not
be correct I suspect. He was doing payback for Malaysia...
Right... Especially since it is Schumacher.
Completely agree with this one!
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: So even if he did similar things in the past, he should not have it
: done to him? Is that what you are actually saying?
Yes - that is absolutely and completely what I am saying. I don't
see how you can disagree with this. Schumacher punted Villeneuve off in
'97. Are you seriously suggesting that, therefore, everyone's
entitled to a free punt at him?
Just because someone breaks the rules (once) doesn't mean that
everyone else is entitled to do the same to get back at them.
--
Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving
Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html
> Yes - that is absolutely and completely what I am saying. I don't
> see how you can disagree with this. Schumacher punted Villeneuve off in
> '97. Are you seriously suggesting that, therefore, everyone's
> entitled to a free punt at him?
> Just because someone breaks the rules (once) doesn't mean that
> everyone else is entitled to do the same to get back at them.
MS hasn't done it ONCE, he does these things over and over again, he
punted Damon Hill in Australia in 94, during the British GP the same
year he was playing mindgames on Hill and overtook him on the pace lap,
he was penalized with a stop/go, but refused to accept the black flag
and stayed out (which is about the worst you can do, not respecting race
control) and then the incident with JV (I'm sure I've forgotten a few
things in there somewhere), I can see a pattern here, MS thinks he can
do whatever he wants, but noone can do ANYTHING to him, I can even
remember him being upset at Hill at Suzuka last year for not letting him
past (they were fighting for position because Ferrari/MS screwed up
something at the start and had to start dead last) as everyone else had
done, I was LMAO and thinking, is this payback time or what :-)
Personally, I think MS is about as low as you can get as a sportsman,
he's one of the best F1 drivers in modern times, maybe even the best,
but I have absolutely no respect for that guy, and in my opinion he
deserves whatever he gets, within the rule of course :-)
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
: No misunderstanding at all. I simply do not think Schumacher
: was "racing" with the Mclarens at all. Even though he was in
: 2nd and they were in 3rd, he was clearly purposely holding
: them up to let his team mate build a lead. "racing" was not
: part of it. IMHO.
The term "racing" was used to mean situated on the track in such a way
that position might be exchanged. Not to mean "I was going as fast
as I can" - a lot of commentators use the word "racing" in this way.
(Whether you agree with the useage of the word or not it is in common
usage to mean that).
:> you for position and you are slowing them up to help a team-mate.
:> This was the situation with Hakkinen in Malaysia - they were
:> "racing for position" and schumacher was holding him up.
: IMHO purposely holding him up is not "racing", it is being and
: ***.
It is team tactics and F1 has been a team sport for a long long time.
--
Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving
Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
www: http://www.racesimcentral.net/
: Couldn't let this one slip by me :-)
: MS hasn't done it ONCE, he does these things over and over again, he
: punted Damon Hill in Australia in 94,
Well, that's very much open to debate - I believe '94 was a genuine
accident. I may be in a minority in that belief.
: during the British GP the same
: year he was playing mindgames on Hill and overtook him on the pace lap,
: he was penalized with a stop/go, but refused to accept the black flag
: and stayed out (which is about the worst you can do, not respecting race
: control) and then the incident with JV (I'm sure I've forgotten a few
: things in there somewhere), I can see a pattern here, MS thinks he can
: do whatever he wants, but noone can do ANYTHING to him.
Well actually he was DQ'd for three races for the black flag incident
that you mention.
But this very much is not the place to discuss Michael Schumacher
evil man/good man.
I still think it is totally unacceptable even if the driver in
question has cheated 100 times to say "therefore it's OK for me to
cheat too"
--
Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving
Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html