Maybe I can add something to this discussion and help alleviate some
of your frustration. My own background is very different to yours, as
I have been the proud owner of a budget copy of GPL for all of two
weeks. I have sunk a fair bit of time into other "pseudo-sims" such as
GT1/2 on the PSX and Ferrari 355 Challenge on the Dreamcast, but until
recently didn't have a PC for ***. Now I do, so I'm taking the
plunge into the (IMO) much more interesting world of PC-based sims. I
also take my own road car (Subaru Impreza) to various circuits around
the UK several times a year for a bit of free lapping, so I do have
some RL track experience to compare the sims with, albeit not much in
terms of hours. Obviously with a car like that I have a few years of
experience at fast road driving, although the ragged edge is generally
out of bounds for the sake of safety. To give some idea of my pace -
or lack of - in GPL, I was relatively pleased to pull in a 1:33.4 at
Monza last night. I also had my first crack at the 'Ring, but I won't
say the time as it's just too embarrassing!
Ok, moving on to a few general points and observations:
PERCEPTION OF SPEED
I can remember the first time I saw in-car video shot by another
Subaru owner at a track day, and I was absolutely stunned at how
*slow* it looked. I could see the rev counter winding around to over
7000 in 1st and 2nd gear as he came out of the pit lane, but the
acceleration looked more suited to a trip down the high street for the
shopping. And this was in a Japanese import car with 280hp, weighing
less than 1300kg. The same applied to cornering speeds. It was a real
eye-opener to realise how the impression of speed in driving games was
being massaged.
SLIP ANGLES
Todd, regarding your comments on peak lateral force and slip angle, do
you think it's overdone even taking into account that the 67 cars were
running crossply tyres? I would definitely expect much higher slip
angles with these, and looking at the replays the car attitudes seem
to match my memories of film footage of GP cars from that era. (The
repeats! I'm not that old ;o) What do you think?
TRACK MODELLING
Looking at those comparison shots, it struck me how a tiny difference
in track modelling can make a huge difference to the nature of a
corner. Move a kerb by less than a foot and you can radically alter
out the whole cornering line, and crests, dips and cambers can have an
even more profound impact on the way you approach a corner. Compare
the GPL version of Fox Hole with RL. In GPL the crest around the
turn-in point seems more pronounced, as does the gradient change
between the approach and exit. The RL corner also looks sharper to my
eye. At Adenau, GPL has the approach drop into the corner much more
than it does in reality. These things will make a difference to entry
speed and the attitude and balance of the car through the corner and
on exit.
FEEDBACK
Mark, your comment about "occular disposition" is very interesting as
I believe it points to the heart of the issue with feedback. I feel
lucky as a sim racer, as I find very little need for physical feedback
even when driving a real car. I get most of my info from the changes
in cornering attitude, especially in pitch. These are pretty much the
only things I look for when trying to judge what I can get away with
either on braking or when feeding the power back in on exit. I have
done a fair bit of messing around with the spring and bar rates on my
real car, and at one particular stage the car was pretty wayward. I
didn't need to have a scare in order to work this out, even well
within limits it was obvious from the way that the car would go high
at the rear as the overly stiff rear springs transferred all the load
onto the outside rear wheel.
When it comes to issues such as single wheel lockups at the front or
rear, I can read what's going on from the yaw behaviour. For example,
if the rear has locked (rear brake bias too hot?) and you've got even
a fraction of steering lock dialed in, the tendency of the rear to
"buck" is detectable from the body movement alone. This isn't
translation, it feels very direct and natural to me. Even though I am
way down the learning curve compared to some around here, I can still
lock a wheel without flying off the track, and I can bring it back
from the great beyond at least 50% of the time in a broad variety of
situations. Most imporantly, the other 50% of the time I know what I
did wrong -- I'm not driving blind.
Another other thing I depend on strongly is the longer term feedback
that comes from learning what you can get away with, and what is
likely to stuff you in the barriers. I believe that it is possible to
build your own mental physics model, and develop a visualisation of
load transfer effects in various situations. Decisions such as whether
to trail brake on entry to a particular bend become much easier if you
can get a good feel for the interplay between pitching weight transfer
due to braking and the lateral grip limits (and weight transfer) at
your chosen cornering speed.
As my Monza time shows, I'm no expert, but for me GPL is an absolute
revelation, and I do not see myself spending time with any other
sim/racing title in the near future. It was clear from my first few
minutes experience that I was dealing with car behaviour that is very
close to RL, as percieved through the particular set of cues that I
pay attention to when I drive. But that's the clincher, and if you
focus on different aspects then that could easily explain why GPL
doesn't provide the deeply satisfying experience for you that it does
for me. Different people pay attention to different cues. For example
to some people the idea of doing without a FF controller would be
unthinkable, but I don't give a tinker's about that as long as I can
judge the load transfer effects from the car's attitude.
OTHER THINGS
Having been so glowing about GPL, I should at least say that I fully
sympathize with your comment about the "crapshoot" of staying on the
racing line. It certainly is hard, but I also agree with Jonny that it
may have more to do with the large drift angles (realistic or not) and
the sheer time that is spent sideways, rather than the physics model
per se. Also agree on the matter of controller setups, I guess I just
lucked up because linear works well for me.
The other game I purchased in the last fortnight was F1RC, which some
people around here seem to hold in high regard. Well, I could *almost*
get into it, but it seems very arcadey after GPL. Ok, the vastly
different cars make a direct comparison futile, but I just get a
"canned" feel about certain aspects of the handling. And don't even
mention the spins, which just made me reach for the EXIT button --
even GT does better than that!
Finally, can I also ask what this static***pit thing is all about,
and also what are CPR and MTBR?
Best regards,
-= mike =-
<much interesting stuff>