rec.autos.simulators

I tried a fresnel lens once, it made my 17" monitor look like a 25".

Anybody tried the Wicked3d red-blue 3D glasses with N4 or GPL?

Gerald Moore

Are there any free REAL glasses that come with all these gadgets?
Seems to me the eye/brain is being fooled a lot; I can feel a headache
coming up. ;-)

Ruud van Gaal, GPL Rank +53.25
Pencil art    : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/
Free car sim  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/

| I think you may be blending two senses of focusing here...
| depth of field is caused by the lens in your eye or camera adjusting for
one
| distance, and objects nearer or farther away being blurry depending on
| aperture (F-stop).  So a conventional computer 3d display is like a
pinhole
| camera--effectively zero aperture size and infinite depth of field--all
| objects are in perfect focus (although mipmapping and filtering can give
| some depth-of-field like effects within the surface of a textured object)
| The other effect of depth is the two images being out of place
horizontally
| (a la beer goggles) due to parallax between the two eyes (stereoscopic).
3D
| glasses of various sorts can give the stereoscopic depth effect, but not
the
| focusing effect.  The 3D glasses I've tried are problematic because the
| binocular depth information from your eyes is in conflict with the focus
| information.  However, I think if the screen is "too far away" rather than
| "too close", the effect is better, such as at an Omnimax with 3D glasses.
|
| I believe there is a technique where you have a reflective "subwoofer"
that
| flexes at a pretty high rate, with an image projected onto it from a
device
| capable of insanely high refresh rates (such as vector plotters)...
| basically the woofer acts like a variable convex mirror, so the image can
be
| layered in depth.  This gets you both 3D effects with no glasses involved.
| The problem is to render 60 FPS with 100 depth layers requires 6000 frames
| per second!  I think most demos of this have spinning wire-frame cubes and
| such, but one could conceive of some *** new way of doing this with
| full-motion 3D graphics, such as a graphics card that could render
triangles
| to multiple depth planes simulaneously, etc, etc.  (Caveat: my knowledge
of
| this device is extremely sketchy)
|
| However, I think games still have quite a ways to go to achieve even 2D
| photorealism...

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If this thing flexes at a rate higher than 40 times a second it's officially
not a subwoofer as the "sub" stands for subsonic which, in most cases,
starts at about 40hz and goes down from there. "Woofer", however, is a
fairly flexible term. :-)

How do they keep it from making noise?

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark

I ultimately prefer the static for the feel it gives but I am faster without
it. In the static I can run all day and recover from my mistakes in a more
natural way. But, I believe that is because I am more sensitive to wheel
spin and locking and rotation that I drive more mellow. I am less willing to
take it over the edge because I am aware that it's over the edge. Also, in
the***pit I have made, while there is much greater sense of speed,
position on track, lateral acceleration, braking pressure, attitude, track
surface, pitch, crown, and suspension movement in the front. The rear of the
car is not readily apparent. There are problems with it that could be sorted
out maybe, but considering no mirrors, pit board, or lefty/righty I've given
up on it completely and never drive it. But I did learn something about GPLs
"drive model" in the process. On your first outing, take it to Monaco.

http://www.racesimcentral.net/~m.jeangerard/GPVLF2/stuff/ferrari.cam Get this file and
drop it in your cars\cars67\ferrari folder. (Make sure to back up you
ferrari.cam if you already have one.) Then go to your player\playersname
folder and open player.ini. Scroll down until you are in the
[ Personal Information ] section.

There you will find the line:
drivingView = 1                          ; driving view

Change the 1 to a 9 and away you go. This is now your F10 view and when you
get in the car it will already be activated. When you press F10 it puts you
back in default driving view and rewrites the player.ini to drivingView = 1.
So don't F10 until you are done with the static***pit.

Notice the hole in the "floor". I don't know why that is there, nor do I
care. But I do think it lends to the sense of speed. I noticed that when I
move the driver down, there is more sense of speed. It's also harder to look
properly up the track and this could lead to slower times as well. I also
noticed that a more forward view gives a greater sense of front grip, and a
more rearward view gives a greater sense of rear something. (not sure what,
but the thing started handling like a Vette.) So, there you have it. Give it
a try. It's pretty useless but hey, It's just another Monza race on VROC.
(Kyalami?) Might as well do something different for a change. :-)

I always try to take that into account when I think about these things, but,
lack of data, you know?

mark

PS Would I have gotten reamed if I'd attached  that 1kb file to this post?

I've got smoke turned on, but have to see any come from my tires. Maybe I
need to drive harder.

Check my reply to Jonny Hodgson for detailed info in the static***pit.

I never watch replays. Well, rarely. There are 3 reasons I watch replays:
1. I want to see who's fault it was.
2. I want to see who the race list dropped.
3. It was posted on the VegeServer. (The name Bruce#33 in the header being a
primary motivator.)

A lot of people get that.

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark

There's incar footage of Graham Hill lapping at Monaco that is stuck in my
head that indicates the opposite to me. I'm not well versed in slip angles,
but the way he drove, while possible in GPL, is certainly the slow way
around.

This is exactly what has me bugged. Why you... instead of me? "-)

There is no other way to learn a car or a course. But come race day, when
I'm trying to run down Asgier or hold Jan at bay, I want to be able to
stretch those limits a little. Get in a little hot or jump the cornerm put a
wheel off while trying to make the track *that* much wider. In GPL I am at a
loss for the ability to go faster than I already am without terminal
mistakes.

Don't even worry about CPR. It's old and something will come along that
equals it and I'll be sure to point it out. MTBR is Mercedes Benz Truck
Racing. I've only ever driven the demo but just that was 18 times as good as
the F1RC full release. Swedish Touring Car Championship 2 is also a good
buy. Both MTBR and STCC2 are probably best labeled as arcade titles, but as
far as physics and drive model goes, they are blurring the lines between
arcade and sim.

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark

Just for the record. Radial plys do go radially from bead to bead but the
steel doesn't. It would break. In the standard passenger car tire there are
usually two plys of a synthetic material like rayon that make up the case
and sidewalls. The steel belts are typically bias plys (cross ply) and are
confined to the tread area. There is a lot more flex in a radial tire so the
steel helps the tread stay where it needs to be but mostly helps with
puncture resistance. The added tread plys can be anything from rayon to
kevlar. Bias ply tires are a lot stiffer than radials.

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark

It just occurred to me that the center of  my 17 inch monitor is 35 inches
from the bridge of my nose. Maybe sim makers should add a little adjustment
for that in their games. I can't get any closer and as Asbjorn says, he
doesn't want to get any further.

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark

Yeah, I've never driven a vintage open wheeler. Or a new one for that
matter. But my stance has always been:

My 1965 Mustang was easier to apex than the GPL cars. I can't imagine the 67
F1 was worse than the worst handling car I've ever driven. Radials or not.
That Mustang was a real piece of pucky. But I could (usually) get it by a
bit of guardrail without contact.

I have a question I've been thinking about concerning the tires. I was 6 in
1967. I  grew up in a tire family. I remember the tires when I was six. They
were almost chalky to the touch when they were brand new. But stiff as a
board. A couple of hot laps later and the tread felt almost exactly like the
case on my computer monitor here. Certainly more like the monitor than any
modern tire. What do you remember about the grip?

--

"Racing! - Science for the action minded."

mark

My girlfriend often drives GPL, she crashes and spins her way around the
Oring in about 2:00-ish but never complains that it's anything but her
lack of skill that's
to blame.

Gerry

                    GPLRank
Gerry Aitken          -5.35
Mark Jeangerard       -8.87

Jan./ GPLRank: +10.07 and considering myself "fair" ;-))
=---
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