rec.autos.simulators

And as for the image quality difference between no anisotropic and
anisotropic, youd be hard-pressed to find people who agree with you
that there is no difference. That statement of yours alone is more than
enough evidence to question the veracity of your statements.

Im in agreement with hans, you are a waste of time as youve always
been.

Enjoy your outdated piece of hardware.

Flukes aren't facts dude. But you wouldn't understand, since you're a zealot
blind to all things fact.

I think it's you showing lack of comprehension. You attack me for pointing
out your "article" was not about if 3dfx's FSAA is the best or not, when
even the quotes you fling at me say nothing of the sort. You're a rather
bizarre person methinks. Go grow a brain, and some manners.

Yeah, so what? I read em both the first time round. If you're gonna go on
with these silly personal attacks, at least be logical and consistent about
it.

Yeah, I wouldn't expect a zealot like you being able to accept any facts not
agreeing with your personal religion. Go get a life, video cards aren't
deities you know.

 Bye!
/HB.

Oh, and another point.

I was very hesitant to buy any nVidia accelerator up through GF3,
having witnessed horrible 2D-resolution compared to either a  V3 AGP
or the V5. However the "GF3 Ti" series is a new circuit-board layout
with careful attention to the VGA output. The improvement certainly
shows. I cannot distinguish any 2D resolution difference between
my V5-5500 and my GF3 Ti200. ( I swap the same monitor between
the 2 computers using a top-quality plug and socket connection, not
a switch-box... ).

nVidia must have put some of the 3dfx engineers to good use
in their latest Reference designs.

By the way, my GF3 Ti200 is an Xtasy 6564, with fan and
memory heatsinks, VGA and S-VHS outputs. Highly recommended.

John Lewis

Nope not a zealot at all...you fit the description though. I look at
things critically and compare facts and figures myself instead of
believing press releases. You believe press releases. You do not
compare items for yourself...you believe others....and you apply no
critical thought to your own beliefs...it helps to do that from time
to time. I played with the GF3 for over 4 months...I directly compared
them for over 1 month...given the relative amounts of time we both
spent comparing cards, me 4 months, you zero....well.

Ah but then again the question remains where do you get your facts
from and where are my facts coming from....my 4 months of experience
to your zero. Ummmm.....something is not quite kosher here and it
smells like you. hehe.

Coming from the person who started off by calling me stupid thats a
rich demand...so I think I will just ignore it You dont know what my
article was about and are too much of a nvidiot to see it for just
what it was. Anyone that has a V5 is using the FSAA feature because it
really is head and shoulders above the ***that Nvidia passes off as
FSAA. So my article naturally had to show several things to the Voodoo
5 owner considering a purchase of a video card. It did...that you are
even commenting on the article gives all the evidence required that
you are indeed not capable of understanding the written word, it was
specifically meant for the Voodoo 5 owner not Nvidiots...I care little
for sheep like you.. It wasnt intended for you...you dont understand
it and given your lack of critical thought abilities you wont ever
understand it.

In the face of direct evidence of your wrongness you accuse me of not
being logical...hehe...you probably dont realize how rich that is.

hehe...Again thats an observation I wouldnt expect from you. Since you
are the one that thinks buying the latest greatest video card is a
good idea...keep sopping up that Nvidiot bullshit...someone needs to
keep Nvidia in business until they release something better enough
that I feel the need to spend $300.00

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Never Forget Never Forgive
September 11, 2001
We Will Find You
www.papadoc.net

Really so then Nvidia is just not putting the adjustment tab in the
Direct X properties because......

Sheesh is it so hard to actually quote me correctly. I didnt say no
difference...I said I compared them side by side and unless you can do
that you dont know what you are talking about...in regards to better
image quality. Im not specifically talking about Anio...but when you
compare both cards at x4 FSAA with the Geforce 16/32 Anio the V5 looks
better and the textures are more stable with less creepy crawlies.
Flying over a city in Flanker with both cards is a very different
experience...

Outdated or not, Im not thinking about spending money to replace it
just because its old. The only reason to replace a video card is if
the new one will bring significant speed increases in the games I
play...the GF3 doesnt in enough games to make a difference and in some
games not by the margin I was led to believe, or if it makes a
significant difference in image quality, the GF3 still lags pretty far
behind, or if its better for compatibility...I still have some Glide
games that I love...so the GF3 doesnt compare there.

Most V5 owners will have alot of the same requirements as me, thats
who the article was written for...not a bunch of knowitall Nvidiots
who tag along behind Nvidia with their tongues out wagging for the
latest greatest in the hopes that this card will be the one that makes
them StudKing.

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Never Forget Never Forgive
September 11, 2001
We Will Find You
www.papadoc.net

Eh, excuse me? You base this on what, really?

You: V5 = equal to GF3 (based on limited number of software titles from
limited number of genres)

Me: No, they are not equal (simple fact).

Which one of these positions would you consider the most zealous? Here I see
you start coming with the "nvidiot" accusation again, same thing I heard you
fling at me the last time we discussed the V5 and it's behind-the-timesness
(which was right around the time when it was new), and at that point I was
actually running on an ATI card of all things. How is that for LOL, huh? :-D

You are so predictable, Pierre... Blinded by your zealotry, you
automatically assume I'm a nvidiot because I oppose your position. Not so.
I'd rather have had a Radeon 8500 instead (for various reasons), but this
card was what came with my computer. Not that I'm actually COMPLAINING, this
thing is ***ously fast compared to what I had before (and your silly
little V5 too, hehe).

So take that nvidiot ephitet and stick it you know where, mmkay? I was
simply using the GF3 to stand off against your V5 because that is what YOU
DID, not because I have a love affair with Nvidia and their products (I do
not; they're good, no denying that, but other products suit me better).

Haha! What a rediculous and totally baseless accusation. You are so
pathetic.

I don't HAVE to compare a soon three year old video card with one less than
six months old to know the outcome of that, dude. As I've already said
several times, if your goal is to run 4xFSAA in a limited set of technically
simplistic applications forever, not upgrading, by all means go ahead and
keep that V5, you deserve it (hehe). If your horizons are broader than this
however, one would do well to consider other options.

Considering you came up with the idea the V5 compares favourably to the GF3,
I would refrain from making remarks about ME smelling... I distinctly feel
an aroma of bullshit coming from your direction.

Considering you seem to change the purpose of the article as you see fit,
then no. Apparantly, I don't.

You said in your "article" it was to help V5 owners decide if they needed to
upgrade or not, but I guess that doesn't count because now the "article" was
about the fact V5 FSAA is superior to GF3 FSAA all of a sudden. Go figure.

Rotfl...

We've been over this territory already, but I just thought I'd again take
the opportunity to point out how silly, stupid and childish you are by
flinging such baseless accusations about. Rotfl...

Hmm, well... Whatever. If it makes you feel important, by all means go ahead
and believe that if you wish.

Yeah, you V5 zealots need to have your beliefs in a failed company
periodically re-inforced, otherwise you'd might actually come to agree your
product is no longer the bestest and the greatest (and never was, by the
way). Haha!

Yes, so much for objectivity, Pierre. Write up a piece of sheit concluding
your almost three year old 3D card still has what it takes and then get mad
at me when I call your bluff, rotfl...

Really, I don't understand you at all. Provided one has the cash, why would
it not be a good idea? You get the latest greatest videocard! So one has to
cough up for the pleasure of owning it, SO WHAT? Isn't it a distinctly
un-American (or should that be, "anti-American"?) p.o.v. that paying for the
best is bad?

Or in terms you are more likely to understand: are you saying you'd rather
drive a Pinto than a Cadillac because it's CHEAPER?

Besides, I got my GF3 in november, more than six months after the card had
been released, so so much for your wild theories, LOL.

OOPS! Someone forgot to tell you that you can get yourself the superior GF3
for way less than $300 these days... Still stuck in your delusions I see,
rotfl!

 Bye!
/HB.

The first time I saw you bring up this subject again I knew you were in for
a long flame war with a bunch of lemmings.

Some of us fortunately are not conditioned to always buy the corporate line
and highly appreciate unbiased REAL WORLD evaluations.

I personally still run a V3 2000 and 3000 as well as a Radeon and Rage128
card and the old Voodoos still hold their own even in WinXP.  I am toying
with buying a Kyro II card but am hesitant right now as the Kyro II Ultra
and maybe even the Kyro III are around the corner.  I do not feel like
paying $200 for an 8500 but that's my other option.  Any idea how a Kyro II
might fare running RTCW and Opfor?  Im thinking my Radeon 32 SDR can't
handle it well in 1024x768x32 and figure a Kyro II would deal with it.
Think I should wait?

PS, be aware that somebody is cross posting this thread into the Nvidia
newsgroup to incite flames so I have taken the liberty of removing it from
my reply.  L8r.

Well luckily, I really don't care about your opinion. :-) It does work,
certainly not as efficiently, but then, speed hit is less too which makes it
more useful.

Don't feel sorry for me. I've seen V5 FSAA even though I've never owned a
card myself (gosh darn it, but it's true!), and yes, it does look purty, but
the speed hit is significant too so I could not say with a straight face
it's a feature one could rely on constantly, in ALL apps. I have no speed
problems with my GF3 running 4x FSAA+9-tap filter and 32-tap anisotropic, so
I'd rather have less effective but fast FSAA than effective FSAA which is
too slow to use.

Wouldn't you?

 Bye!
/HB.

I have a kyro II 64mb(the hercules one)
With this base system
athlon 1.4ghz
512 Mb SDR RAM

Runs rtcw brilliantly, can't give you an fps score(don't know the command)
but at 1024x768x32 with everyting on high detail, except light maps(kyro
doesn't handle light sources too well), it goes above the refresh rate of
the monitor i.e. 75hz. I know this coz v-synch is off, and you get that
cutting on the screen.

It doesn't score too highly on 3dmark 2001, it gets around 2300(if tweaked).
But actual in game performance is excellent. The medal of honor demo, max
payne, rtcw, avp2 and homeworld cataclysm(for a bit of variation) all run
excellently.

BUT it is twitchy, i.e. prepare to have to tweak it and mess around with
drivers a lot before everyting is happy.
Having said that, i would wait for the Kyro 3, this will have hardware t&l
support. Which the kyro2 doesn't. Although not a problem now, in the future
with games like unreal 2 it will help no end.
Cheers
Sven

LOL!  Yeah, the Radeon doesn't like smoke too well either so it's a trade
off.  I think we can all agree that there is no perfect 3D card.  Each one
has it's own limiting factors.  You just have to match it to what you play I
guess.

Well 3Dmark is just an Nvidia PR tool anyway, although I have read that the
8500 cards rip it apart LOL.

That's always the fun part of owning a 3D card anyway.

Just wish I knew how long it would take for the KIIU or KIII to apear.  My
Radeon is an excellent card but the fact that I purchased the dirt cheap SDR
version is starting to show AFAIK.  It could also be that I only have an
800MHz Duron though.  Not sure if an XP 1.6 GHz CPU would increase the
Radeon's life or not.  Wish I knew.  With that said, I am still very tempted
to buy a Prophet 4500 but only if I have some extra disposable income.  I
purchased my used V3 2000 AGP for $15 recently and put it on one of my spare
machines.  At that price I was tickled to death.  Talk about a great deal.

Thanks for the info Sven.

<snip>

A friend of mine is running a by today standards lowly Athlon 650 paired
with a Kyro II, and I must say I was pretty impressed. RTCW runs really
well, except with lightmaps as Sven said.

Sad.

<snip>

..
Jimmy Nilzohn

And didn't the GF2 GTS hit the shelves just a few weeks later than the V5
5500?

Indeed?

..
Jimmy Nilzohn

It's so important that I am right now looking for a used Millennium I/II
*PCI* card to use for 2D, since I want to keep my GTS for 3D.

Quadro2 is not an option right now, it's too expensive.

I'm not so sure about this either...I think Nvidia is cutting corners. With
so many transistors, no wonder they have to cut somewhere...

Yup.... but the Voodoo driver support is nonexistant, nowadays.

Agreed. Unless it's a V5 PCI for legacy Glide games :)

..
Jimmy Nilzohn

No thats not true even the Professional 3D cards that operate at
absurd resolutions tout their FSAA. Why? Because it takes care of the
stuff that happens to textures when you move the scene...also even at
1600x1200 the jaggies are noticable.

Whatever are you talking about...? V5 supports extremely large
textures...And lets not forget that it plays Nascar 4 at 1600x1200 x2
FSAA faster than the Geforce 3.

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Never Forget Never Forgive
September 11, 2001
We Will Find You
www.papadoc.net